Homeworld 2 Tools Release Delayed

[Monty Block]

Hi everyone,

We've had to delay support of Homeworld 2 through the Relic Developers Network (RDN) until later in 2003. We regret the postponement but it's necessary in order to provide solid support. We're currently aiming for the last half of October.

That said, we're still releasing the Homeworld source code today. It's ready to go and should be up later this afternoon.

-geoff

[Devils_Hitman]

you've got to be kidding,...............

[Mnementh]

RDN: from strength to strength :(

[Slamoid]

....... fudging hell.


C'mon... October? Is this because of Maya? SCREW IT! GIVE US AT LEAST SOME WAY TO EDIT THE SHIPS NOW!!!! Forget objects, just a way of editing ship stats and abilities!!!

Last week you posted for today, and now you're delaying it AN ENTIRE MONTH?!?!?! WHY THE HELL DID YOU POST THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?! HYPE:!:

You bastards. Relic has just lost MANY points in my book.

Good day sirs.

[ÜberJumper]

I like how people complain that HW2 should have been delayed to patch it up, but when Relic delays the release of mod tools because they're not ready to go people complain.

[ztella]

I dun't care bout support! Just gimme tha stuff!!!

I can learn how to use it on my own!!!

But lets all hack the HW source!!! It'll hold us over till the tools come out!!!

[Zang]

Damn it! I just wanted to change ship weapons and stats...can't even release the spreadsheets eh? Woohoo.

Why'd they even bother saying they'd release them today? We have almost NIL support for HW modding, why all of a sudden is it a necessity?

[ShadowHawk]

your excuse is that you are not able to support the tools properly. well were modders. release what you have and support it later. we can work with what you give us. I'm just tired of game companies saying there gona release something then backing out at the last minute. and holding off for 1 - 6 months.

Please just release what you got. it will give us a chance to at least attempt to place new things in game. and let us see what we can and cannot do.

Thank You.

-ShadowHawk

[Davor]

Please atleast release the stuff that lets us mod ship stats. So much could be done by just adding/changing weapons or stats, IE longer battles, etc..

[PenDragon]

at least this give me more time to save up $2k for maya.
personally i'd rather have a patch before releasing any development tools.

[Devils_Hitman]

Relic, your trying to help the modding community rite?, lieing isnt a good start. Not that you have any right to not release any modding tools, just dont go saying u are.

[Slamoid]

Not even a freiging level editor plugin. RDN is really starting to piss me off.

I agree with ShadowHawk tho. The mod tools that we had to work with for HW1 had virtually no suppourt. Just release what working ones you have and let us amaze you with what we can do with no suppourt. Did HW1 mods let you down? Just release SOMTHING.

Thank you.


P.S.: Don't make me get my Trinity cannon...:hover:

[kenshinco]

if u gonna delay the release date then why did you post it in the first place?
that is so f*^@# dishonor, why can't you keep your words?
dam%#%#it

[Devils_Hitman]

I must say it would be fun sitting back n watching us squirm for a few hours :talk:

mabye they have a sence of humor.

[ZuiljiN]

damn...wtf...they announced the date a week ago...and now they just figure out they need another month!?!? nice planning...

[Slamoid]

Originally posted by Devils_Hitman
Relic, your trying to help the modding community rite?, lieing isnt a good start. Not that you have any right to not release any modding tools, just dont go saying u are.

^^^^ right there guys.


From even before you released HW2, you said it would suppourt such sweet mods and that mod tools would be perfect ect ect ect.... Now you LIED to us about having them at release, you LIED to us about the release date, and you're still telling us that you WANT this game modded? Sure seems like it. Not.

You're killing the mod community!

Let me tell you somthing: The people here are looking at this website because YOU told them to. All they want is a little somthing to make your game better. By lieing to them, they don't like you anymore, and already half of them probably won't come back. You lied about the release date, now you'll probably lie about suppourt, features, ect..... You just shot yourselves. Big time. No matter how good a game is, actions like this are just wrong.

The only way you guys can redeem yourselves now is by releaseing at LEAST the spreadsheets... That will just give people a LITTLE somthing to look at until you release the tools. Just release what you have!!! Who cares if it has bugs, practically everything will. JUST RELEASE SOMTHING!!! I Don't want you guys to loose modders!

Release sOMTHING before it's too late. :fallen:

[Spooky]

Marvellous, great, hurrah...... :(

If you are delaying the release by several weeks should it not have been obvious that was going to happen before the day of the release?

Is there no possibility of releasing even the basic file specs piecemeal, as happened with the HW1 files?

At least I get to play with the HW1 source (fingers crossed :)).

[kenshinco]

hope Devils_Hitman is true

[bobthedog]

really... just release the tools as they are now and patch them later... at least release stuff so we can edit stats and stuff.. I want my flak turret platforms :disgust:

[ÜberJumper]

You'll have the HW1 source code to look at.

[Zang]

I can't see they found some huge problems in the week from the announcement till today that would've been enough cause for them to suddenly say they can't release the tools for another MONTH.

[Slamoid]

I Waited till 4 o'clock in the morning after work to play with the new mod tools. Then, I wasted 3 hours of my time waiting this morning. Legaly, I could SUE RDN'S BUTTS OFF for waisting my time.

Smooth move relic.




:rant:

[Zang]

This is fun...now I'm pissed and going off to work...I wanted to come back from hell-job and change some stats...now I'm going to come home and not play HW2.

[Spooky]

ÜberJumper - fat lot of use that will be to those who cannot program... ;)

[Maimer]

they didnt lie, they gave a projected date and found something that delayed it, getting mad and screaming at them for it is just stupid, look at what happened to the renegade modding community when people wouldnt shut up about the mod tools, people left cus they couldnt stand the spam and never came back, not cus of the 2 month delay, most mature people were willing to wait for professional people to finish it. History has proven that spamming for the release of sumthing only makes the end result worse, you better hope that the devs dont read this and try to please you by rushing it.

[Zang]

Rushing what? A spreadsheet with ship stats? As said before...this is a mod tool...HW1 absolute zero support, and now they want to tell us we can't do it without thier help (well right now we need thier help in getting us the damn tools) but "support" for mods is something that's not a nesscesity

[Ghent]

props Relic. Kind of like Uber already mentioned...........

At least your reasons are good, and you give a reason. That's why I say props. Personally I wish you guys would have done this with the game also. The more I play, the more bugs i'm finding, the more imbalances, the more things that really needed a little further polishing up before release.... good game still, dont get me wrong, just nowhere near the level of what HW original was back in it's day, comparatively. Thank you for at least taking the time to make the tools work well tho. The frustration would be intense for us all if they were released, but then were buggy or nonfunctional. Good move, good decisions on your part (seriously i mean that... not being sarcastic like I know I often am)

2nd thing -
Thanks, props, words can't really convey............ for releasing the HW original engine. We've asked and begged for so long, it seems like forever! :) Thank you, Thank you, THANK YOU. This is probably the greatest thing you've done for us all, after making the games of course :)

[Wolfmoon]

Gotta say im very dissapointed, I have been looking forward to today, hell id have been happy with something that just lets you read/edit the .shp files, id much rather have something today with no support than wait over a month.

I appreciate you guys wanting to have everything ready and loads of support but lets face it, were all modders here we are used to no support, we would much rather be able to mess about now and get support later than have to wait over a month.

You must have known the tools were nowhere near ready if they need another month so why couldnt you have said so before the release day :-\

[Slamoid]

:gnight:

[Ta_erog]

"I like how people complain that HW2 should have been delayed to patch it up, but when Relic delays the release of mod tools because they're not ready to go people complain."

I am very sorry to disagree but this is very very different . . :wtf2:

These tools are not being sold to us so there is no expectation of quality . . and frankly we could care less about support of moding tools we just need a jump start to really start moding (heck what "support" are they really offering?)
As long as the info given is correct and the converters work basically even barely (which they had to for any relics development to be using them in the first place) WE would be quite happy . . . :nod:

A quick fix would be . . .
So, just call them "beta" withdraw support for this "beta" release. . . and then release the “supported” version later . .

No obligation implied with the “beta” so no worry on your part . .

Well????? :mag:

[Maimer]

support doesnt always mean guides or faqs, ive seen it reffering to bugs, i dont know about you but i dont want the chance of my mod tools kickout after 2 minutes or compiling a file wrong and totally screwing my mod

[Zang]

Yeah...just release the tools and state that they are not supported in any way by Relic or Sierra blah blah blah...then release the "good" tools later.

Besides...you can't possibly f*** up the game with a Spreadsheet can you?


Originally posted by Maimer
support doesnt always mean guides or faqs, ive seen it reffering to bugs, i dont know about you but i dont want the chance of my mod tools kickout after 2 minutes or compiling a file wrong and totally screwing my mod

It's MOD tools...and if you compile the wrong file..you delete it and recompile it properly. You save backups so that you don't mess the game over...standard mod common sense.

[MetalMorph]

I half-expected this to happen, which is why I'm not all that disappointed. I mean considering HW2 was originally slated to ship August 26th and instead got pushed back to September 16th.

Any word on a patch, or are you still compiling a list of all the bugs that need to be fixed?

[ÜberJumper]

Ta_Erog:

Different yes, same bitching though. My point remains.

Just be patient folks, if the game had been delayed until the end of October, then you'd be getting the mod tools when you should have been getting the game. :-P

[Spooky]

I seem to remember the IC mod tools were released before the game - LOL :D

[Taiidani_Ruler]

I think they should release it and keep working on support or whatever. I mean c'mon how many games have you seen with editing tools without support.

[MetalMorph]

For all we know it could be out of Relic's hands -- they may have to take an extra couple of weeks to let Sierra's QA folks run through it just to make sure no potential liabilities exist.

[Wolfmoon]

Originally posted by MetalMorph
For all we know it could be out of Relic's hands -- they may have to take an extra couple of weeks to let Sierra's QA folks run through it just to make sure no potential liabilities exist.

if that were the case they would have known at the time of posting the release date the tools were not going to be ready.

[MetalMorph]

Originally posted by Wolfmoon


if that were the case they would have known at the time of posting the release date the tools were not going to be ready.

Like they did with the posting of the August 26th release date for HW2? :rolleyes:

[.:Steevo:.]

Do any of you have any idea what it's like to set release dates? They may have found a bug in the software that would crash all of your computers or something just as bad. Things can change from day to day, like a cold. Fine one day, coughing constantly the next. Would you like to get a code that could ruin your computer and have you lose all of the HW2 gaming until you can replace the broken parts. Be happy with the HW1 source code. Mid-October is in 3-4 weeks.

[MetalMorph]

Originally posted by .:Steevo:.
Do any of you have any idea what it's like to set release dates? They may have found a bug in the software that would crash all of your computers or something just as bad.

As I said, "potential liabilities".

[Starfisher]

The crying goes on...

For you to use that simple spreadsheet in game, chances are you have to compile it. If they just found a bug in the compiler for your simple spreadsheet, then what the hell good is that spreadsheet?

It isn't any good. In fact, you get to happily change numbers in a grid! Open up excel if you really want to do that.

I'm not happy the release is delayed; I'm not happy that Relic said one thing a week ago and another today. However, I realize that in this world tolerating minor setbacks such as this is usually a better strategy than crying in frustration and posting crap that I'll regret later, especially since I have no idea why the release was delayed. How can you possibly judge when you have no idea what's going on??

Oh yeah. It's the Relic Boards! Silly me.

[Taiidani_Ruler]

.:Steevo:. -
Nothing in history(other than faults in windows) suggests andything like that ever happened and I doubt an exploit in HW2 would be the target

[Grey Fox]

Meh...ah well
i have HW2, the strat guide, a pencil & paper and imagination.
thats good enough for now. ive got a new SP campaign in the works, and that takes more than just tools to make...i gotta concept design, recruit a team, type up my story notes, and figure out something for animatics :hover:
patience people! patience!

[Azeral]

this is rather irratating i knopw you probably do have a good reason for not wanting to release the mod tools... but i really want em :(

[AdamStriker]

I don't mind that the mod tools aren't released today. But I agree that announcing it the day they were to be released is quite sleazy.

What I do mind, is that if you are giving yourself another month for tools, then where are the patches? The router problem should have been fixed already, and I'm sure there are other bugs which are easy to fix.

[Ta_erog]

Sorry ÜberJumper that was not meant to "bitch" . . just give a real reason for the delay or no reason . . . don’t pass on one that is so . . .easily fixed . . and so last moment, and then complain that we are complaining (wow . . did that make sense??)

I never complain about the release dates of any real and supported program and hardware . . Because I know what a total hell it is to get things out (I am in QA and just had a RR of our own) you must give them good value.

BUT even then never tell a customer anything will be out and then on that day give a questionable excuse why it will not be coming out that day . . Anticipation builds and can be much easier dealt with the earlier you state the delay. So saying it today was a BIG no no in relations . . . any day but the “release” day . .wow . .

That’s all . . and I know you are just the messenger but you may want to relay that it is a rather bad business practice that is easily avoided.

Rant off . . . . I am not mad in any sense or way. . It is a ## game after all :)
but I do hate seeing things handled like that . .

PS, the solution still stands?? IF that WAS the real reason . . . . :) whatever I have other things to do . .

PPS, Starfisher and others . .yes the data sheets are usefull in orginising and planning a MOD also we can make a frontend to the data so it is easyer to edit also the utilitys have to be in some good state of useability (not pritty but useable) IF they used them for development. . . . so buy a clue?! at least the text data does not need support or can it blow up your computer.

Sorry . . I am done - rampant ignorance there

[TyrealMathias]

delay for support? no quarrels here... still love ya, Relic, always will :)

[Arioch]

All I want are the Excel files that list the ship stats. Is that so much to ask?

[Wolfmoon]

Originally posted by Arioch
All I want are the Excel files that list the ship stats. Is that so much to ask?


Sadly I get the feeling they think it is :-\

[NovaBurn]

I don't mind that the tools are being delayed, at least this time around the modders and us are getting developer support for mods and such, which is a nice touch indeed. :D

Then I saw the last part, "That said, we're still releasing the Homeworld source code today. It's ready to go and should be up later this afternoon."

WOAH! Who's idea was to do that! I hope that some ass doesn't try to rip off you guys by trying to use the source code in his own game...

I always wanted to see what a game source code looked like

[Sandalpocalypse]

All I want are the Excel files that list the ship stats. Is that so much to ask?

same :(

[FrankDark]

Please give only Beta tools without support free.

the completed Community will start Modding.

we wont the Maya plug in.

Only a ship editor.
and a packer for big files

[FMA-CSBS2]

@Frank: There will be no ship editor, the designers work with maya.

@The rest: Now you crying, but think about it how mutch you are crying if the tools would be buggy and useless... think about it

[LeftHandBlack]

buggy tools > no tools

We are mod people, you don't need to hold our hands.

[FMA-CSBS2]

read what some people write in this forum, I dont mean everybody

[Sandalpocalypse]

they won't have financial liability or anything

it's not like you can even access the tools without signing up for RDN. if anyone complains about bugs we can just flame him into the stone age

I just wanna be able to tweak ship stats :(

furthermore they can't be that buggy... they made the game with them after all.

perhaps increased support, considering the timeframe, means that they'll be releasing tools that work on a broader array of platforms? (Ie, more than Maya 3)

[Langy]

I certainly hope that it's something like that, Sandalpocalypse, though even if it were, I'd wish they'd release them anyways at the moment, unless Sierra isn't going to let them release a second version, though I don't see why Sierra would have jurisdiction over that, unless they're paying Relic to develop and send out the tools, too. I'm not sure if they would or not, really. *shrug*

[jog]

Could the delay mean they've gotten support for Maya PLE and will need a few weeks to modify the plugins, and surprise the hell out of us??? :dunce:

[Crook]

That's a pain - but it would have been nice to have an interim release to keep the interest alive, and by that I mean some filespecs - not necessarily all of them either! What about the LUA files for a start? The filespecs are set in stone by now anyway - it's no problem releasing them.

I think Relic are trying to be too 'professional' about it :) Not that that is a bad thing, but it doesn't require so much money and support to get HW or HW2 mods going. Just give us some initial catalyst and we'll do it ourselves :) We'll build tools, converters etc. In fact, we WANT to build tools too! But if HW modding is anything to go by, the boundaries that are set by the RDN tools release will be broken by HW2 modders.

The great thing about HW modding is that it does seem to break boundaries. Shame about the delay, but come on Relic, give us a complete filespec or two! It'd be fun, and it'll give us all something to talk about too :D

[StaticEngine]

Ahem.

The Games Industry is difficult. Writing good code and good tools are difficult. A few more weeks is not going to kill anyone.

I'm looking forward to the HW source, and good solid tools whenever they come out, and I support Relic's decision.

[DABhand]

People people people

Calm down. You have to remember that RDN is giving these tools free gratis and not many developers would even do that for people. Hell when you bought your HW2 it didnt say on the box "Price includes we WILL release tools on the 26th September for the moding community".

So they said they would try to release for today, they didnt promise anything, but yet you all scream and shout "effing this and effing that" again I remind you all RDN dont have to give these tools out, so chill everyone.

Just complaining rudely will just make em push the date even more forward and the possibility that they wont release any tools.

[Durandel]

Originally posted by jog
Could the delay mean they've gotten support for Maya PLE and will need a few weeks to modify the plugins, and surprise the hell out of us??? :dunce: HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! Yeah, right!

No, but seriously, there must be a serious bug for them to have delayed. Never mind full-on modding for the moment; if I understand this right then it's going to be a month (at least) before anyone can make a new multiplayer map.

No new maps may mean players losing interest trying other games instead. I'm sure Relic is as pissed off as everyone else.

[ZuiljiN]

yeah maybe they find a big bug...but why they wait until today to say its delayed?? i think everyone his complaining because they expect d/l the tools today...and now we have to wait another month...

[DABhand]

Yeah plus everyone thinks RDN promised to release the tools today, not anywhere did I see RDN promise to release today, they said they will try to release today.

Wish people will calm down a bit and stop flaming the developers lol

[Dyam]

I want to edit ships! *crys*

[MetalMorph]

I think part of the frustration stems from not having heard much of anything from Relic since the game shipped. No word about a patch yet, and this game needs one badly. Sans news regarding the mod tools, have we heard anything at all from Relic?

[Spooky]

From the Relic website:



HW1 engine release and HW2 tools release.
[September 19 2003]

The Homeworld 2 RDN tools, along with the Homeworld 1 engine will be released on RDN on September 26th, 2003.


No promises or trying.... :) It should not be too much longer to wait for the source code now - not that I am sure what the time zone difference is with the UK...

[Wolfmoon]

Originally posted by DABhand
Yeah plus everyone thinks RDN promised to release the tools today, not anywhere did I see RDN promise to release today, they said they will try to release today.

Wish people will calm down a bit and stop flaming the developers lol


HW1 engine release and HW2 tools release.
[September 19 2003]

The Homeworld 2 RDN tools, along with the Homeworld 1 engine will be released on RDN on September 26th, 2003.


www.relic.com (http://www.relic.com)


I dont see a we will try there I see a we will, maybe its just me and my grasp of the english language being somewhat iffy? :P


{edit} Spooky beat me

[DABhand]

Still no promise

They said it will be released, but that doesnt say promised to be released.

At the end of the day, they are taking their own time to help out the modding community, people who bought the game in the first place, didnt buy it cause they might be a remote chance they will release tools, so why they complain for something they dont have to pay for is kinda lame'ish.

As ive said before they dont have to give any tools out. it isnt mandatory.

[Wolfmoon]

Originally posted by DABhand
Still no promise

They said it will be released, but that doesnt say promised to be released.

At the end of the day, they are taking their own time to help out the modding community, people who bought the game in the first place, didnt buy it cause they might be a remote chance they will release tools, so why they complain for something they dont have to pay for is kinda lame'ish.

As ive said before they dont have to give any tools out. it isnt mandatory.

True its not a promise, I just think they should have told us earlier than today since they knew they wouldnt release today.

Oh and the reason I know they knew yesterday is because thats when I heard there would be no tool release.

[Ta_erog]

Originally posted by DABhand
Yeah plus everyone thinks RDN promised to release the tools today, not anywhere did I see RDN promise to release today, they said they will try to release today.

Wish people will calm down a bit and stop flaming the developers lol

I just check this thread again after getting home . .

Man I wish people would check before they post . .

LOOK ON http://www.relic.com/

on September 19 2003 they stated that the HW1 engine and HW2 tools will be released.

direct quote!


"HW1 engine release and HW2 tools release.
[September 19 2003]

The Homeworld 2 RDN tools, along with the Homeworld 1 engine will be released on RDN on September 26th, 2003. "

Please do not muttle up the conversation with false information . .

(rule) never give dates you can't deliver on or expect a backlash . . if you want to lessen the backlash announce the slip as soon as possible . . the same day of the release date is too late . . expect maximum grief.

We have learned it here and don't dare to break it. . .you would expect relic would have too after 3 games . .

Oh well . . . .Ca Ca happens

[DABhand]

Thats true, but it may have been something they found out today that caused them to re-schedule.

But we shouldnt flame them or bring em down for that. They should be thanked for even giving people the opportunity (SP?) to even mod their game.

Its like IRL if your working on a project and someone comes to you and say "pfff your project is crap" or "Your f#$%ing lame", it does put you in a serious downer lol and possibly that in turn would expand the time working on your project. Im sure its the same for the RDN guys.

[Stress Puppy]

It just blows my mind that the game has been out not even 2 weeks yet. Alot of people havnt beat the SP campaign yet, and are still exploring the MP game. You are all bored with the game already?! :fright:

I was dissapointed about the delay, but im not surprised. Something must have went very wrong at the last minute. Screaming about it wont change anything. Just have patience.

[Ta_erog]

Don't get me wrong . . . they have a reason . . possibly even a good one from our POV and defnetly from there POV . . . but they gave us the company line . . which unfortunenty is tipical . .

Oh and that last post was JUST to keep things correct on this thread as others posted otherwise. . and not a flame at Relic . . I just took the opportunity to restate my . . . . . advice
:Pint:

[No1lives4ever]

Originally posted by Slamoid
....... fudging hell.


C'mon... October? Is this because of Maya? SCREW IT! GIVE US AT LEAST SOME WAY TO EDIT THE SHIPS NOW!!!! Forget objects, just a way of editing ship stats and abilities!!!

Last week you posted for today, and now you're delaying it AN ENTIRE MONTH?!?!?! WHY THE HELL DID YOU POST THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?! HYPE:!:

You bastards. Relic has just lost MANY points in my book.

Good day sirs.

Wow, you r joking right?

[Miguel]

He's tweeking.

[AdamStriker]

The idea that this is a service they are providing is only partially true.

Do games need to come w/ mod tools? No

But I didn't buy this game for the game, I figured it would be okay, and it is okay (I'd say 80-85%) But I bought the game for the mods, the engine is good, and the space RTS scene is fairly sparse in terms of games. If HW2 was released without its modability I wouldn't have bought it. So I did pay for the mod support.

[Kheturus]

I feel sorry for the people who have had their lives ruined by a 1 month delay to a set of modding tools for a computer game.

[TheCaptain]

Well, this delay does give me more time to work on some other projects.

Mainly, I don't nescessarily want the tools, I just want some docs on the engine and limitations so I can plan properly. You can design all you want, but specific implementation is the key. Mainly, I want info on all the lua commands that hw2 has. But, I guess I just have to wait like all yall. Maya ple support would be amazing, and I'd wait a month for that.

But, it is relic's 'fault' for stating a date and then pushing it back. But, I bet the knew that when they pushed it back that they WOULD geta backlash, and they probably weighed the gain they'd have from delaying it against the backlash they'd get.

So, they pushed it back, but I'd bet that they had a damn good reason.

Also, looking at the lua language specs for the first time, my mouth is watering... I hope we have support for all the advanced lua features during maps. :):):)

[Ta_erog]

Here here Captain

:Pint: and another one :Pint: :buddies:

[Starfisher]

Wait a minute. erog, you go from lambasting Relic for delaying the release and calling me 'ignorant' for suggesting excel files with ship stats are just that: spreadsheets, to agreeing that Relic is all good?

hu-whaaa?

[Liberator]

I read the entire thread and have the following observation and comments:

There is a general feeling that the game is buggy and needs patching.

This may be so, but very few of you have ever written a program of ANY type. A major software product like Homeworld 2 has MILLIONS of lines of code. I have studied 7 different programming languages and there is NO way to automate the process of bug location and correction. EACH line of code must be examined individually for errors. I defy any of you to point to a major software product that had 0 errors from day 1.

Now you spoiled little children need to shut up and mind your place.

[lardmaster]

:jaw: This is most disheartening, ive been waiting all day to come home and d/l thse suckers and start having fun with em... boy was i surprised. I guess this means ill have more time to enjoy the multiplayer... if only that worked straight. Curses:sheep:





:frog:
there are so many smilies.. sooo manny... but no :bannana:

[-V-]

Well after reading the 3 pgs of complaints, ive calmed down a bit, and agree a major game like this has several millions of lines of code that needs to be checked for bugs, but on the tools, i would say just throw us a bone, heck just explain how to open the .shp files, and we'd be happy for a few months.

[cream]

This may be so, but very few of you have ever written a program of ANY type. A major software product like Homeworld 2 has MILLIONS of lines of code. I have studied 7 different programming languages and there is NO way to automate the process of bug location and correction. EACH line of code must be examined individually for errors. I defy any of you to point to a major software product that had 0 errors from day 1.

- very good point. you reassure my thought that this whole forum hasn't gone 99% noob retarded yet.

dont get mad at Relic just because they delayed mod tools.

learn some fucking patience you psychotic 12 year olds.

they were nice enough to release the game when they did

[DABhand]

Here have a banana

http://www.vwaskar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fun/bananarock.gif

[Sandalpocalypse]

but no :bannana:
really? :banana:

Liberator you do realize that the default bg color is extremely light grey? I hate highlighting peoples posts just to read them.

blurb
If Relic doesn't want people mad at them they needed to have done two things:

A.) Announced it earlier.

B.) Give a Reason. "Support" is too vague. Something like "We discovered that the OBJ exporter sets computers on fire." or "We would like to have the dev team present to put together a manual and FAQ and be on hand to answer questions."

C.) Liberator, many of the people here DO have an idea of what it's like. Insulting everyone for the sake of one or two people's posts isn't going to win you points in anyones book.



learn some :censored: patience you psychotic 12 year olds.

Nor yours.

[Liberator]

Originally posted by cream


- very good point. you reassure my thought that this whole forum hasn't gone 99% noob retarded yet.


That's because us oldsters are outnumbered by the "u1t1m4t3 f4nb01s!"

Let's see how many are still here in, say, 6 months. When you've been around a little while you learn how to wait to let the pros do their thing and stay out of their way.

*edit*
Oh and SandApocalypse?
I made the whole thing white so it would be more visible on the most popular Forum Themes such as Homeworld. It's not my fault you're using the default theme. Would you prefer I make it red? Also, 9 out 15 posts on the first page were complaints of some type. I could go on but I'm sure you get the point.

*final edit*
Let's remember that the Relic staffers were likely in a continual state of Red Alert for probably 18 months up until relase. They're probably just now getting home from their mandatory vacations.


The whole point is that where one would expect a bunch of "Thank you for taking two and a half years of your life to make us this awesome game!" threads. I see a bunch of petulant children who would rather complain about how messed up their new toy that they've been drooling over for a year is.

[ShadowHawk]

yup mine was defanitly a complaint and a plea to get them to release something more then just the Source Code for HW1. I've gotten bored with HW2 already and wish to make it better. the single player missions I beat in 5 hours.

Now I've been around the community for several years just haven't posted to much in these forums (reason why i had to reregister). They clearly stated it would have been released today. now I'd be ok with it if they had said earlier that they are not gona release the tools. or even givien a better reason for it. I own a company and though we don't distribute products but provide a service I know that something should have been stated earlier.

Well thats all I have to say on the matter.

-Hawks

[Spooky]

I wonder how many people here remember the HW modding community from back in early 2000? There were no tools available, the game was previously considered 'unmoddable' and everyone was contributing, exploring and discovering just how to go about doing things. Some of the modding tools myself, Delphy, Crook and co have written litterally took years to come to fruition and here people are complaining after a week or so. Heck the game was only released on the 26th here in the UK!

Yes it is disappointing, but hardly the end of the world. If some people were to take a step back and examine their actions, they should jolly well be ashamed, if not then there is not really much hope for them...

Patience is the key. :)

[DABhand]

Here here

give that man a job RDN :P

[Black Emperor]

Today would have been the perfect day for the release. All the good gamers who would have been into modding too, have finished SP by now. They would have started to mod today and would maybe be able to show results by the time not-so-hardcore-gamers finishes the single player and starts to loose interest.
This delay shortens the mainstream-lifetime of HW2 dramatically... IMO...

[kenshinco]

yea, give him a job rdn

[Stress Puppy]

If that were really the case HW1 woulda went into oblivion a long time ago.

Speaking as a veteran modder, I was there along with the "Trio" (Delphy, Spooky, and Crook") in 1999 pulling my hair out trying to figure out ways to mod the "unmoddable" game. The 1st true mods (new ship model importing) didnt show up for about a year IIRC. 1 year, and HW1 survived. People still play Cataclysim too, and we barely scratched the surface for modding that too.

What the major malfunction most people have with HW2 is that thier expectations have become way too high. Has no one noticed the effort that went into HW2? I sure as hell have, and I salute Relic for that effort. I also suggest for Relic to become thier own publisher to avoid the annoyance of having to get permission from Sierra to sneeze. If there is anyone to blame for all the snags then it is Sierra. Im sure Relic had many things they wanted to do with HW2, but couldnt do it because of restrictions from the publisher. In any case HW2 even with its flaws is a FINE effort. Maybe some of you new people should show a little respect.

[ceejayoz]

I also suggest for Relic to become thier own publisher to avoid the annoyance of having to get permission from Sierra to sneeze. You say that like it's simple. Publishers handle production of CDs, boxes, manuals, marketing campaigns, deals with stores, publicity, etc. You're suggesting that a small game developer suddenly buy all the machinery and hire all the employees necessary to be a major publisher?

Get real.

Not only that, but Sierra holds the intellectual property of Homeworld, so becoming a publisher would do nothing for Homeworld 2.

[Elif Tymes]

I respect, and admire Relic, I continue to be awed, and say "GG" whenever I play HW2.

I was looking forward to the tools, but hey, I can wait, and spookys got his veiwer, sure, I want something to edit those LUAs, but, its all good.

Ill wait, and, hey, I have no clue what Delphys working on, mebbe thats it :-D

[cream]

IMO you guys can't decide on rather to hate Relic for delaying stuff, or love them for making the game in the first place.

[Dawn Falcon]

I love Relic. I hate Sierra. Pretty simple.

My problem is this - next week, my team decides at Uni what engine to use for our final year project. Only engines with developer-released tools are elegable.

HW2 just bumped itself OFF the posibilities. Shit.

[Mr. Powell]

Originally posted by Stress Puppy
If that were really the case HW1 woulda went into oblivion a long time ago.

Speaking as a veteran modder, I was there along with the "Trio" (Delphy, Spooky, and Crook") in 1999 pulling my hair out trying to figure out ways to mod the "unmoddable" game. The 1st true mods (new ship model importing) didnt show up for about a year IIRC. 1 year, and HW1 survived. People still play Cataclysim too, and we barely scratched the surface for modding that too.

What the major malfunction most people have with HW2 is that thier expectations have become way too high. Has no one noticed the effort that went into HW2? I sure as hell have, and I salute Relic for that effort. I also suggest for Relic to become thier own publisher to avoid the annoyance of having to get permission from Sierra to sneeze. If there is anyone to blame for all the snags then it is Sierra. Im sure Relic had many things they wanted to do with HW2, but couldnt do it because of restrictions from the publisher. In any case HW2 even with its flaws is a FINE effort. Maybe some of you new people should show a little respect.

Well hello folks

Just wanted to say that i have to agree with Stress Puppy. We should all be lucky that relic even did a game in this genre again which is even very popular and well known because of it's past and therefore i'd say wait for the tools :wave: . I for myself of course would like to have at least a decompiler or maybe some of the .shp files to begin to mod (especially the BC's [Hiigaran & Vaygr] and the destroyers[Hiigaran & Vaygr]) but well if the people over there at Relic thinks that we should wait rather then getting some serious problems with a bug blown tool kit then i'd appreciate it and wait how it should be :wave: .








By the way i don't know if you remember me but i still remember you Stress Puppy a.k.a. The Stress Puppy from BC and several other ST related games :hi: .

[slug609]

I love Relic. I hate Sierra. Pretty simple.
I couldn't agree more :p

I'm sure Relic is doing it's best to appease the masses, and I have no doubt that the modding tools will be wonderful and functional. Delays bite, but they happen. I'm positive there was a good reason, and maybe one that came up at the very last minute -- one that didn't give them the option of warning us ahead of time.

Never know.

[Vorkosigan]

While I admit I'm a bit disappointed, I realize that Relic undoubtedly has some perfectly good reason for delaying the release. I suggest that everyone calm down a bit. We waited for years to even get the game, what's a few more weeks?

[TheCaptain]

Dawn, I say buck for hw2. There's enough info floating around the bigs that you can at least do some design or preproduction for your end of year project... and you'll kick yourself in a month for not using hw2. Try to hold out for the three weeks or so. It's what I would do.
Two cents..

[Old Khan]

Originally posted by MetalMorph
For all we know it could be out of Relic's hands -- they may have to take an extra couple of weeks to let Sierra's QA folks run through it just to make sure no potential liabilities exist.


Call me a lier Relic.

[Dawn Falcon]

TheCaptain, rules are rules. No dev-released tools when we consider, it CAN'T be in contention. And we can't delay - the Uni sets some pretty tight deadlines.

[Arioch]

Another point to consider is that we're developing our own tools right now. By the time Relic finally gets around to releasing the official tools, we may not have any use for them. I'm not sure how Relic's "unfinished" tools are supposed to be more "dangerous" or "buggy" than ones we develop ourselves blind through trial and error. I just don't see the logic.

[Desalus]

Originally posted by Dawn Falcon
TheCaptain, rules are rules. No dev-released tools when we consider, it CAN'T be in contention. And we can't delay - the Uni sets some pretty tight deadlines.

Who is the Uni?

[Ghent]

Originally posted by Spooky
Some of the modding tools myself, Delphy, Crook and co have written litterally took years to come to fruition and here people are complaining after a week or so...
Patience is the key. :)

Indeed... but Relic should have still at least released the file specs. As I read the thread after my earlier post, I can definitely agree with that. But... at any rate, the work you Crook & Delphy are putting in is already quite likely to produce better tools for MOD'ers than the ones that Relic may release (at some point). Even without the filespecs, you've nearly cracked them entirely open, at least for models & textures. AIFR sound files are all still the same. Only map files and these darn .lua files remain.

(ok, and *.lod files, which unlike old HW are now not just text, and seem to be for effects & not camera zooming).

But anyways, the point is, just think how much faster work could commence if they had at least just taken... what, 5 minutes or less to upload some filespec documents for RDN level 1/2 members? Nothing else, just filespecs. Like I said earlier, it's very understandable not to release their actual tools until they're good & ready, in fact I support that, it's a great idea to work out bugs & save the "target audience" some frustration.

[Alex Drake]

I'll buck the curve and say that I'm not dissapointedin relic for actually delaying the tool release, but I am upset for their (relatively obvious choice) choice to compile them in such a manner that they must all come bundled together.

[This was the only logical conclusion I could come to as to, otherwise they'd be able to release whichever working tools they have]

But I think we'll get by, but more in spite of relic (as usual) then because of them. I just wish we didn't have to repeat history again.

[Sandalpocalypse]

@ Desalus, "Uni" presumably refers to "University.

:offtopic:

It's not my fault you're using the default theme.

I like the Relic theme better than the Homeworld theme. The default text color in the HW theme is perfectly visible. for emphasis, try bold and italics.

Liberator, I think you have case of "Community Veteran Disease." Because I didn't post much on the forums, doesn't mean I didn't have 8 different mods in my homeworld directory (just rename to r1 and r2 when needed *g*) and kept playing homeworld for years after its release. And calling people "n00bs" to make yourself feel superior is not the way to expand the community of a game you obviously care about enough to made the time investment you have in.



That's because us oldsters are outnumbered by the "u1t1m4t3 f4nb01s!"

Many people attempted to post considered complaints on this thread. You flamed them. And they are now "f4nb01s"? The logic is backwards here.

Minor edit: The development cycle for HW2 was only 18 months. ( not 30) That, basically, is what resulted in the current problems afflicting HW2.



and back on topic:
It'd be nice if we had more details. :hmm:

[Mr Tyranny]

Originally posted by Monty Block
Hi everyone,

We've had to delay support of Homeworld 2 through the Relic Developers Network (RDN) until later in 2003. We regret the postponement but it's necessary in order to provide solid support. We're currently aiming for the last half of October.

That said, we're still releasing the Homeworld source code today. It's ready to go and should be up later this afternoon.

-geoff :banghead:

[helios]

Originally posted by Dawn Falcon
I love Relic. I hate Sierra. Pretty simple.

My problem is this - next week, my team decides at Uni what engine to use for our final year project. Only engines with developer-released tools are elegable.

HW2 just bumped itself OFF the posibilities. Shit.

Without wanting to sound negative with regard to Homeworld 2, for a uni project would it not be better to use a more "mature" engine, rather than one that had just been released? At least that way you would be able to find much more information on its limitations, the tools themeselves and what is possible rather than committing to a brand new shiney engine and discovering six months down the line that it does not do what you origionally intended.

Depending on the nature of the project you would probably be better off (in terms of final marks) if you chose the HW1 engine (source code... oo...pretty) or perhaps something more mainstream such as HalfLife/Unreal.

[Delphy]

Spooky said it. Some of you are WAYYY too impatient. It did take us years to get good tools for HW1 and you are complaining now?

The fact is that the modding community has, and are, producing tools for HW2 *right now*. Relic delaying thier release isn't going to stop that you know.

It doesn't stop us playing about with the game so it shouldn't stop you - and if you read these forums you probably have an interest in modding anyway.

I for one am sick of all the complaints after such a good game.

Thread locked.