Hinderdam

[Slivin]

Can we please remove Hinderdam from 1v1 automatch. This is the worst map ever introduced to CoH. If we asked every held a poll i would be surprised if we got a no. Since Relic seems to use this site as an unofficial headquarters of fourms. Can we please get reasoning on how this map has lasted this long

[The0ne]

Hinderdam FTW! Srsly the map sucks. But just uncheck it. Problem solved.

[Slivin]

the problem is i dont like beaux lowlands and the bugged st. mere as well

[The0ne]

Then play those maps more and get better at them. Only map I have unselected is Hinderdam.

[pkrtech]

I agree, building jumping IS NOT fun! moving your units around in and out of cover, dodging nades (or not) rushing pulling back IS FUN!

[Slivin]

The0ne, getting better at a bugged map should not be an answer

[The0ne]

Ugh. Why not? If u just keep playing it and get better at it then it won't bother u anymore. Hinderdam doesn't even bother me that much anymore. I still don't like but it's not that bad.

[Slivin]

It is, bridges, 4 VPs and two high fuel points equal lose

[TsaosChicken]

Funny but I seem to do well on both of those maps. It's St. Mere that sucks. First to mg spam wins. And that's the one I usually deselect

[lance81]

I like Hinderdam. I dont always win on it but I like it as a map.

[seraph7]

I really like Hinderdam, you really have to think to win as spamming doesn't work too well and with the choke points you can massacre blobs.

If you get a stand off with two VPs each then you can end up with full doctrines and have most of your units available to work out ways to win.

If you don't like it just unselect it rather than ask for removal.

[TeaSeeOh]

I'd much rather want to get rid of the two Contest Winner maps: St. Mere and Wrecked Train. Both aren't very good, allowing very little room to maneuver any sort of armor.

[FLXleGaulois]

Hey guys you want to delet maps that doesn't fit to your usual strats... why can't we play different ways on different map types instead of always doing the same strategy.

I alway choose random match and you know playing against SC spam everytime I play Americans make me happy to play on St.Mère to see something else than SC>AC>Marder all day long.
I don't say it's unbeatable but it force people to have a bit of imagination and do something else than what they just saw on gamereplay.

[GerryHYH]

Because Contest map is IMBALANCED, and full of bugs.

Hmmm, let me see, Langres for example, + 16 fuel muni on the left, +10 + 10 on the right, its IMBA! St mere, PE can cap BEHIND a wall with ketten, how lame is that? Wehr can just mg EVERY house vs brits, brits cant manuever, and mortar after motar? By than Wehr has tech to T3.... Pio can also put barbed wires that brits cant handle early on. Its not about learning the strag, its just difficult on imba, tight maps :S

I love custom maps, where they are well balanced and symmetrical. Angoville and Semosis in that case.

[FLXleGaulois]

Ok st mère has problems.
But about langres you're wrong: the +16 fuel is a center point and the +10 points are one on each side. This is not unbalance, each faction can attack both the same way.
Langres is axial symetrical and I find it as interesting as central symetry like Angoville or Semois.

[Kitn0]

Because Contest map is IMBALANCED, and full of bugs.

Hmmm, let me see, Langres for example, + 16 fuel muni on the left, +10 + 10 on the right, its IMBA! St mere, PE can cap BEHIND a wall with ketten, how lame is that? Wehr can just mg EVERY house vs brits, brits cant manuever, and mortar after motar? By than Wehr has tech to T3.... Pio can also put barbed wires that brits cant handle early on. Its not about learning the strag, its just difficult on imba, tight maps :S

I love custom maps, where they are well balanced and symmetrical. Angoville and Semosis in that case.

Agree. Lame ass custom maps, who's genius idea was it to implement these?

[GerryHYH]

Sorry, I meant +16 MUNITION point on the LEFT.

LOL! Ofcourse both players can attack different ways/equal ways on Langres. Though no, lets take brits for example, I get to cap +16 left FIRST if I start at the south, and can move my HQ FIRST if I start on the south, Symetrical my ass :P its just not balanced.

[Slivin]

personally, i just hate 4 vp maps,

[Eatbanana]

I love st. dunno the name, but with the church.

[sigrun]

Waterman45 I don't agree. Hinterdam is different I agree. And that's nice for a change. But if you don't like it, deselect it. Simple.

I've had many good 1v1 games there, and a couple of truly great (remarkably enjoyable) ones. Most are reasonably short, a couple stalemated, and a few particularly long and very, very enjoyable for the most part.

Even when choked off, eventually someone's tenacity will prevail and make a breakthrough. And there's little excuse for not doing so fairly early as Brits with Commando or US with Airborne doctrines ability to land behind the lines, harrass fight and cap. Brits and US don't have to turtle with arty.

For my money Hinterdam often makes for a refreshing change of pace and strategy being able to tier up to a full arsenal with excess fuel and munitions for plentiful application of all doctrinal abilities available instead of the ususal rush game.
Ed: sp

[LtFubar]

I like playing hinderdam and beaux lowlands every now and again. The key on these maps is to not let it get into a stalemate by crossing the water in the beginning of the game. Specialy on Hinderdam I have had some great fights.

The maps that piss me off when I see them loading on automatch are St.Mere Dumont and Wrecked train.

These are the 2 maps I have deselected. This are map contest winners but I think these 2 maps are poorly designed. St.Mere is too narow, bugged and unbalanced (buildings & walls). Wrecked train isn't so bad but the middle of the map does not alow good micro. try to micro a vehicle there is hell and the pathfinding is messed up.

I really can't believe relic have put St.Mere dumont in. There is no tactics in this map. just rush to certain points on the map and from there slugg it out head on. no room to flank, no fun.

I'd love to see a new mapcontest but that the winners maps will get touched up by relic and resource lay-out and balance will be looked at carefully before it is implemented in ranked games.

And then there are other 1v1 and 2v2 maps that are available in skirmishes or basicmatches but not in automatch. What's up with them? are they not better then St.Mere and others?

Would like to see maps like Best (ao) in automatch to spice things up a bit again.

Hell I would probably pay to get a official relic expansion pack just containing maps but i don't think that will happen.

[Ano2]

St Mere is a piece of shit and should be removed, langres is okay except for the dodgy points, hinterdam I like but it is chokepoint heaven, and wrecked train is great except for the middle which needs clearing up.

Solution: Allow players to uncheck 4 maps.

[lance81]

Solution: Allow players to uncheck 4 maps.

If Relic did this then it would take longer for automtaching. Also, the server would be forced to place you on unselected maps more often due to the lack of exact matches. In my opinion if Relic were to allow players to unselect 4 maps then they should add 2 more maps.

[Ghostly_Gecko]

I believe it works differently. You get automatched regardless of map preference, and when it's time to select the map you and your opponent will play on, each map gets 4 (?) ballots, but the maps that were de-selected lose one ballot (so, if you and your opponent BOTH de-select St. Mere, it only has 2 ballots as opposed to 4 on another map).

This is also why you still sometimes end up on maps you de-selected. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. :)

[Borrish]

You're correct Ghostly_Gecko. I highlight the word "preference". Deselecting a map simply lowers your chance of getting it rather then stopping you playing it all together. Hinderdam is honestly the worst designed map i have ever seen in any rts ever. What the hell where they thinking. If the 2 islands where connected by bridges in the middle it'd be ok, although still campy, but as it is it's terrible. Last time i got Hinderdam i ended up quitting because i honestly hate it that much.

[saalkin]

You know what would be better then removing the maps? having them fixed.

[sighman]

Hinderdam and St. Mere Dumont are the crappiest maps. Hinderdam is crappy because I feel that it is way too big for a 1v1 map and that it has 4 VP. St. Mere Dumont is just as crappy because CoH balance is seriously messed up in only urban fightings setting (atleast in Montherme you have the outskirts) which gives an unfair advantage to both the Brits, and the Wehr.

[Vintage]

I agree sighman. Urban fights in this game can be pretty lame. MG spam is really fun to play with. Ever play Lorraine with a double WSC start? It is really boring and lame.

[Sarcasm]

Hinderdam would = fixed if a bridge was inserted in the middle, connecting the two town islands. It's foolish to have to go all the way back to your base to get on the other side, or to have to go through the enemy base. That's not different gameplay, that's bad map design.

Other than that, it's a matter of preference for the otherwise superchokepointy nature of the map.

[BikerGnome]

an extra bridge would be good.

The deselect feature is as mentioned a preference. I used to deselect lyon in 2v2 and have endured 3 games in a row, and for those 3 games my allies had also deselcted that map

[Fairplay]

Hinderdam should just go away, i always deselect when playing 1v1. I find its just far too big for a 1v1 map. And 4 vp's? Epic fail.

[sigrun]

This is also why you still sometimes end up on maps you de-selected.
Thanks Ghostly_Gecko. I'd wondered how the selection mechanism allowed this or if it was a bug.

[Kiese]

The problem with Hinderdam is, that turteling IS a valid strategy. Blowing up the bridges completes the stalemate. As wehr I just tech up to nebels and destroy both bridges. It doesnt even matter whether you have a bridgehead on the other side or not. Because if you have forces on my side of the map, after I destroyed the bridges, they are trapped without a retreat path. That is even worse then Vire River.
Then the game comes down to an arty game. Any faction can easily blow up the bridges any time. And paras and gliders dont help. Yes they can land on the other side, but they will still be trapped.

In 1vs1 I'm used to games that last about 30min to up 1hour at most. Hinderdam can last a lot longer :(

The best idea i read, was from this thread: Just include a bridge in the middle and make it indestructable. Maybe it could make the map playable again. I dont know. Its still a 4VP map.

[Borrish]

You could move the VPs about and remove one of them. If you did that and included another bridge it could possibly be at least playable.

[lance81]

I believe it works differently. You get automatched regardless of map preference, and when it's time to select the map you and your opponent will play on, each map gets 4 (?) ballots, but the maps that were de-selected lose one ballot (so, if you and your opponent BOTH de-select St. Mere, it only has 2 ballots as opposed to 4 on another map).

This is also why you still sometimes end up on maps you de-selected. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I didnt know that. Thanks for correcting me! :)