Squad Add-ons Help?

[jp.hebbel]

I'm trying to figure out how to modify the add-ons/weapons researches for my marine scouts, and eventually all squads types.

What I want is to be able to give the Scout (i've modified it to singular) the ability to switch weapons and also and ability to upgrade to a Tactical Marine.

I've been able to figure a fair amount out but I'm still new to this.

[Promythyus]

Wow! I Don't think you can do this in the DoW Engine, but you could always try... The Switch weapons would probably be able to be done via an abillity, that switches between hardpoints, and maybe a research/ability could modify the entity_blueprint... You'll need to make use of Modifiers though.

[Octopus Rex]

1. What do you mean by upgrade to a tactical marine? To do this you would probably need to edit the model and include a space marine model as a hardpoint choice. There's no way to simply switch models in game with the AE alone.

2. To switch weapons: do you mean normal upgrades? Doubt it, so in that case you want to explore modifiers like default_weapon_choice_hardpoint_x and use it to add numbers to your hardpoints, and thus control the weapon selection. If you haven't already, check out the upgrade and weapons tutorial in the tutorial section.

[jp.hebbel]

Thanks, my problem right now is that I figured out how to modify the upgrades through the HP's but now for whatever reason I cant select either ingame. It says no weapons available, does this meant that I have to remove the HP 01 - weapon 1, leaving it empty?

I want the scout to have a default bolt pistol, and upgrade to either sniper rifle or bolter.

NM, I figured that part out, the squad max upgrade was 0.0, so now it upgrades, but when it upgrades to bolter the face image changes from the scout to a pink space.

[Promythyus]

you need to create an icon file for it, thats why it's pink (pink = somethings missing)

[jp.hebbel]

So folks, I'm starting to walk through my mod. I've made a few steps forward that I think count.

I'm going to try and keep this secret until I can get my first fully playable out, which will be solely SM for the sake of keeping it new and allowing for others to have a hand in the project.

I'd like to thank Octopus Rex for his help and tutorials (amazing).

Things I learned:
While editing lua's in your mod, you CAN save them and keep the AE open IF you ONLY use the Binary Save. Thus you can update lua's on the fly to become playable.

Also, without any extensive editing, the "name_for_this_weapon_choice" "Space_Marines_Bolt_Pistol" does not work for the marine_scout model.

[Octopus Rex]

Yeah, that'll be because the words you need are "space_marines_bolter". The names for weapons are not necessarily what the weapons is actually called. They are just a string that the animations files recognises. They may have nothing to do with fluff what-so-ever. They could equally be "oireuwnflnxxxxx" if you coded them that way.

Yeah, you can keep the AE open. you can also have several mods files open at the same time in their own AE each. However, you have to close the game for any changes to take affect (you didn't in early modding apparently).

[jp.hebbel]

Okay, I THINK I might have it figured out.

I built a modifier that changes the entity_blueprint AND squad_blueprint that's related to the entity. But now I don't know how to apply the modifier THROUGH the squad as an ability.

WTF? I tried adding the modifier I had created to the squad and CRASH... oh well.

I just noticed your reply, I don't think scout and bolt pistol models work together, I tried before with AE properly saved and closed.

I tried adding a "modifier" "whwars/scout_001" to the scout squad, I'm wondering, does the AE crash because the modifier is outside of the "modifier" folder?

[Octopus Rex]

Um, no I don't think you do have it just yet! :)

Ok. Scouts use bolt pistols. They are currently using bolt pistols in DC. They just carry them with two hands. At least I think that's what they are carrying.

Anyway, that doesn't matter. The only weapons that a 3d model can use are weapons that having modeled into its model file. You cannot simply stick another weapon onto a a model that hasn't already got it. For example, you cannot give the assault marines plasmas pistols simply by saying "space_marines_plasma_pistol". That command goes to the animation file (which comes in a pair with the model). If there's no plasma pistol modelled (which there isn't) then it won't what to do with that command (space_marines_plasma_pistol) and the model will go a bit weird in game.

So as far as the scouts are concerned: they may be carrying a bolter, they may be carrying a bolt pistol. They are NOT modelled with both, so it's one of the other. "name of this weapon choice" have nothing to do with what the weapon actually looks like, it's just an arbitrary name assigned to different configuration of the 3d model. The weapon file is just the associated stats with that weapon and can also be called anything you like too.

Also, modifier - scout_001? You cannot create your own modifiers. However, with a name like that I somehow doubt that is really what you were trying to do. And yeah, that'll probably crash your game.

EDIT: Arrgh forgot a crucial NOT.

[jp.hebbel]

TIME TO TRY AGAIN!

How do I find out which models have which guns and in what directories? I think I'm on the right track for what I want to do with the scouts though. Thanks.

Oh, and about the scouts w/ bolt pistols, in dxp2, thats the bolt pistol lua w/ bolter model.

there's no table for modifiers and I think that's what did the crash, trying to put a disassociated body into a structure, without a matching structure to comply. adding "ability" to a squad crashes it too. So if there was a "modifier_ext" table, I think it would work.

HA, I think I have it, I haven't tested yet. I did to an ability what I tried to do with the modifier, added the "extension" "ability_ext lua" to the squad, added the "scout" ability and at least the AE didn't crash!

Right, so I haven't been able to figure out a from-the-squad upgrade, so I'm going to try a from-the-base.

[Octopus Rex]

1. Check my edit. I forgot a rather crucial word.

2. Squad extensions go on squads (squad_*name*_ext), extensions go on entities (*name*_ext). If you look you'll notice that ALL the extensions on squads start with the word squad. The extensions on entities do not.

3. You cannot give abilities to squads. Putting ability_ext on will not work. Abilities can only go on entities. Take a look at an existing ability to use as reference.

4. If you don't know what's crashing your game then you need to read this (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=151008).

5. To find out what available weapons a unit has got you need to look at the original file or look at it in the Object Editor (first way is easier). If you've edited it (sounds like you have) the original LUAs can be foud in THQ/Dark Crusade/ModTools/DataGeneric/DXP2 or w40k. (I told you this one already dude when I replied to your PM a few days ago.) there's only a few units that have extra unused weapons, almost all of them just have the ones you see in game. So if you can't normally have it then the chances are you're going to have to model it in.

[jp.hebbel]

Okay, I've got all that, I'm not some half-brained noob just because I haven't used this program before and I know what the hell a tutorial is.

What I'm trying to do is relatively simple in concept.
First Level Unit > Second Level Unit > Third Level > and so on...
The way I figure that can be done is by using an upgrade/research/ability/I don't know what works, to modify the entity_blueprint - animator + whatever / then the squad_blueprint - whatever to make it look like a different entity when it actually isn't.

Ohkeh, maybe the "possess_ext" will work for what I want.
So I then make multiple level squads with the possess function, go from one to the other to the next.

:muffy: [doom squib!]

[Adovid]

Dude you are talking to the guy who made the custom dreadnaught mod that allows you to basically field any kind of dreadnaught you want from fluff and even combos that aren't in fluff using custom hardpoints. This guy knows what hes talking about.

His tutorials are clear and to the point and very useful, you should read them and if he says something is harder than you think, it probably is...

[jp.hebbel]

Thank you for the incredibly constructive criticism Adovid, you're a shining star for all of humanity to follow.

[Octopus Rex]

Woah, woah, woah, okaaaaaaaay, chill out guys.

jp,hebbel: sorry if I came across as lecturing, I generally try and give as direct/simple/detailed/unambiguous info as possible because it avoids confusion and repeat posts. My apoligies if this came across as patronising, but that's a risk I'm willing to take, it saves time in the long run! :)

The possess_ext will only swap one entity from your squad, so that won't work for you I'm afraid. What you want to do doesn't sound possibl that easily using the AE I'm afraid. Having some units ahead of others but using the same SPBS (i.e unit veterancy) is not really doable without scar coding. Download the Heroes mod to see how it's done there.

Adovid: thanks dude, but I'm probably not worthy. ;)

[jp.hebbel]

Well, I'd like to say again, thanks for your help rex. I'm just gonna stop now and play regular DoW until I get some game design schooling or a fucking job. Lol, but you keep at it, you're doing good.

[jp.hebbel]

WOOH, I don't even care about making a mod anymore, I just downloaded DC DoWpro Mod, WOOOOO!

[Lor]

If you are a DCpro fan, pop onto our IRC (click on the IRC toolbar in my siggy) sometime to play a few games.