[2.300]Should Blitzkrieg Assault break suppression?

[Schwarzwald]

IMHO yes, Why exactly?
150 MU cost, not spamable,late game useage, i see no other reason to why it shouldn't break suppression. This would give blitzkrieg assault more uses and also ability similar to fireup supression resistance for blitzkrieg players ''speed, lightning assault!''.

This change would definitely make the RHS of blitzkrieg more popular.

[iaguz]

Interesting proposal. It fits in nicely and it would allow Wehr players to really fuck up them Allied players when they do it. I like it.

[Heskey]

I'm for it.

[mattbuck]

I agree. Any buffs the wehr can get it needs. :p

[Ano2]

Agreed, for 150 muntions it should break supression. I mean its blitzkrieg!

[Dryden]

umm yes, it would be right

[TeaSeeOh]

The last thing this game needs, is more suppression breaking abilities. Make them slightly less prone to suppression, but if already suppressed, it shouldn't break it.

[Painmuffin]

Oh, ok let me give you a description about team games.

One player will build storm troopers. He will have about 6 squads of vet three by the end of the game. Now the blob of storm troopers will be armed to the teeth with mp44's and schrecks. Ok so armor and infantry basically won't do squat against it. Off map is easily dodge able nowadays, and on map will take a squad out AT most, the rest will just run around it. So now you're saying that this death blob can basically bypass it's hard counter? Storms were made easily suppressed for a reason, else wise they'd be OP.

Hint: If you activate blitz, they are resistant to suppression, much like PE sprint.

[Pyro Paul]

yes... it should break supression and greatly reduce suppression recieved from .75 to .5 or .4. that way it proves useful for mid game wehr players whom chooses RHS first. as it stands, Blitz assault comes too early to be really effective.

you have 1 cp for assault grenades, then 2-3 cp for blitz assault. a normal player will have blitz! during teir 2-3 in which nothing really gains any real advantage to warnt its usage. an early usage of blitz assault puts you behind 2 shrecks with out any suggnificant advantage gained from using it...

although a Puma under Blitz assault is a killer weapon (.5 cool down, .5 reload) thing shoots almost like a machine gun.

[Kuriente]

I think it would be fair to have Blitz break suppression when activated but merely reduce suppression while it's active as apposed to make them immune to it. It lasts long enough that immunity to suppression on a large infantry army could cause huge issues for the allies as the wehrmacht would basically just waltz passed their HMG's and Vickers emplacements.

[sighman]

Blitzkrieg already has the Assault ability for the troops if they go down RHS which breaks suppression. The one where they throw lots of grenades. What would be the purpose of using that then, when you have a more global suppression breaking ability which lasts longer and already has its own benefits on top of that?

[Question]

Firstly 50 munitions is cheaper and the main purpose is nading, not suppression breaking.


One player will build storm troopers. He will have about 6 squads of vet three by the end of the game.

The cap cost of that is absolutely amazing, and artillery is the hard counter for mass infantry.

[Pyro Paul]

Oh, ok let me give you a description about team games.

One player will build storm troopers. He will have about 6 squads of vet three by the end of the game. Now the blob of storm troopers will be armed to the teeth with mp44's and schrecks. Ok so armor and infantry basically won't do squat against it. Off map is easily dodge able nowadays, and on map will take a squad out AT most, the rest will just run around it. So now you're saying that this death blob can basically bypass it's hard counter? Storms were made easily suppressed for a reason, else wise they'd be OP.

Hint: If you activate blitz, they are resistant to suppression, much like PE sprint.

that would cost 2250 mp and 600 mun for the infintry alone.

and you know... with that much resource i could have 8 rifle squads and have all of them hit Supress Fire at once... which stacks... which would insta pin your rushing blitz army. then i could Lob a fist full of grenades into your force. taking large chunks of health out of them... oh and i will still have enough munitions to do a Bombing run on that blob... or i could do a colliope barrage, or even a couple 105 off map barrages.

[Panzer Jager]

One player will build storm troopers. He will have about 6 squads of vet three by the end of the game. Now the blob of storm troopers will be armed to the teeth with mp44's and schrecks.

Disqualified because at that point you would have Crocs, Strafe, and numbers of other units to counter them. Also, in any 2 player/4 player game, only a mentally disadvantaged person would build strictly Stormtroopers, and carry 6 of them.

[iaguz]

It's a 3rd tree ability, so it should have a massive impact on the game. It fits because Blitz is all about large powerful attacks that smash the enemy focusing on speed and lots of damage. If there are 6 squads of stormies out, it would be pretty sweet to watch them all go nuts and attack with utmost power!

And it would be good to see an ability that has seen very small usage since 1.0 actually be worth a damn.

[Vintage]

Oh, ok let me give you a description about team games.

One player will build storm troopers. He will have about 6 squads of vet three by the end of the game. Now the blob of storm troopers will be armed to the teeth with mp44's and schrecks. Ok so armor and infantry basically won't do squat against it. Off map is easily dodge able nowadays, and on map will take a squad out AT most, the rest will just run around it. So now you're saying that this death blob can basically bypass it's hard counter? Storms were made easily suppressed for a reason, else wise they'd be OP.

Hint: If you activate blitz, they are resistant to suppression, much like PE sprint.

that sounds exactly like what happens when Brits press Heroic charge. Oh wait no it doesn't, because Heroic charge is not only free, it makes your guys way more accurate and do way more damage while taking less damage and obliterating everything in sight.

[iaguz]

sorta, but there's a few important differences.
1) the Heroic Charge can be stopped by killing the LT. Not so much during the HC, but before. Always shoot the LT whenever you can, its' worth it.
2) This is a Global Charge that affects all units, tanks and infnatry.
3) Having a bunch of cloaked stormtroopers all throw bundle nades and then flicking on BlitzKreig assault backed up by a sizeable armoured force would be awesome, and that's the sorta shit BlitzKerig assault should be about but isn't.

How would you buff BlitzKreig assault then? You cannot deny it could do with a buff, it's a mostly useless ability.

[Vintage]

3) Having a bunch of cloaked stormtroopers all throw bundle nades and then flicking on BlitzKreig assault backed up by a sizeable armoured force would be awesome, and that's the sorta shit BlitzKerig assault should be about but isn't.

150mu for blitzkrieg assault and 50mu for every bundle nade thrown. There is no way that is happening.

Heroic charge is free and spammable and if you try to run through the tommies to get in range of the lt(s) they will cut all your men down even quicker. A heroicly charged squad can focus fire any axis squad and cut it down in just a few seconds.

I would love for Blitzkreig to break suppression. It makes sense with the ability and the nature of blitz and it's expensive as hell and can be denied by cutting off munitions to Wehr. If they have 6 storm trooper squads that is 72 popcap.

Err 48 I think actually. I forget but it is some high number since storm troopers have double the popcap of a normal squad.

[iaguz]

Storm squads are 8 popcap.

And I know it's a fanciful situation.

As for LT's, the trick is to try and kill them before or after the HC, but never during unless you have a good chance. I've hunted down and killed me many an LT in my time so I know what I'm talking about.

[Pyro Paul]

How would you buff BlitzKreig assault then? You cannot deny it could do with a buff, it's a mostly useless ability.

Blitz Assault is a powerful ability if used correctly. it can make a 2 Panzer 4s deal with almost anything the allies can throw it it.

4 Panzer IV under blitz assault can destroy 3 cromwells and 2 fireflies under a vet 3 command tank control and only lose 1 or 2 PIVs in the process.

4 StuHs under blitz assault can level an allied base in 30 seconds.


Before they re-arranged Blitz tree it was a decent ability for players whom went RHS first as they got this ability at the same time they started getting tanks. but now that they rearranged the Blitz tree swaping Blitz assault and MP blitz, the ability comes way too early usually being had while the player is in Teir 2-3.... during this time it serves no real purpouse to the player and gives no real advantage unlike most all other abilities in the game.

to buff it you need to make its influence over Wehr infintry more effective. for instance, allowing them to Break suppression.

even for those whom say that it is imbalance, you could also add a Negative, much like how Blitz has on tanks, reducing infintry accuracy to .75 or .6...

[Schwarzwald]

i like these responses a majority of the community agress that blitzkriegs assault should break suppression.

[akim]

Oh, ok let me give you a description about team games.

One player will build rangers. He will have about 6 squads of vet three by the end of the game. Now the blob of rangers will be armed to the teeth with tommieguns and bazookas. Ok so armor and infantry basically won't do squat against it. Off map is easily dodge able nowadays, and on map will take a squad out AT most, the rest will just run around it. So now you're saying that this death blob can basically bypass it's hard counter? Rangers were'nt made easily suppressed for a reason, else wise they wouldn't be OP.

Uhu. And what does that fire up / heroic charge cost again?

[SgtWilson]

akim:

Uhu. And what does that fire up / heroic charge cost again?
Heroic Charge costs you at least 250 + 15F, plus a bunch of XP. (Typically, you need to kill at least one whole squad or a light vehicle within the Lt's aura to gain vet 1).

The Brit faction is the only one where the vet system has a purchase price AND needs to be earned in combat.

Any abilities released by vet should be good for the Brits.

[natrapsmai]

Why the hell not? Blitz should break suppression. Give infantry a bit of a speed bonus, too.

[Vintage]

Heroic Charge costs you at least 250 + 15F, plus a bunch of XP. (Typically, you need to kill at least one whole squad or a light vehicle within the Lt's aura to gain vet 1).

Sorry but heroic charge is free no matter what semantic argument you bring up it doesn't change the fact that it is free. It costs nothing to use the ability. Killing people is part of the game and getting an lt. is part of teching. If you are playing the game and you plan on teching and have basic micro your going to get heroic charge.

[WittmannsTiger]

Vintage is right.Heroic charge does not cost 250mp + 15F and a bunch of XP.Thats the cost for an LT, which does many other things besides HC and he is a part of teching so you will get him anyways.
Oh and yes if BK would break supression,that would be nice.

[natrapsmai]

I don't think Heroic charge is as bad as people make it out to be... it takes just a few seconds of micro (or lack thereof) and the LT is fragged.

All beside the point - there have been several Heroic charge threads and this isn't one of them.

[akim]

Sorry, it wasn't suppose to be about heroic charge as such. I just couldn't help myself when seeing this one guy, pretty much stating exactly what the US and Brits can already do (for free), as being OP if wehr could do it. Even at a considerable cost, and as a doctrine specific ability.

[Pyro Paul]

akim:

Heroic Charge costs you at least 250 + 15F, plus a bunch of XP. (Typically, you need to kill at least one whole squad or a light vehicle within the Lt's aura to gain vet 1).


lets see, a heroic charge costs you 250 MP 15 Fuel plus the MP for, lets say 3, other squads, or 900 mp (you get 1 free) you must also aquire 8 xp worth of kills while in the LTs command aura.

now blitz assault...

lets say you are using 3 squads of volks, thats 260 mp and 15 fuel for the whermact quarters. 280 mp for each volks squad, or 840 mp.

you both spent just about the same MP and fuel cost to get equivently sized forces...


Blitz Assault costs 200 XP (about 25 times more the xp cost than what is needed for heroic charge) it also costs 150 munitions just to use. and further more, it only Adds +1 Speed and reduces supression taken by 50% and reduces cooldown by 25%


of course, it also goes with out mention that 3 volks squads will get dominated by 3 tommy squads, exspecially with the support of an LT...

[SmFisch]

You guys act like Blitzkrieg sucks. How about this: stop rushing hoards of infantry with it on and use tanks instead, you know, it's main beneficiary.

[Pyro Paul]

@smfisch




Before they re-arranged Blitz tree it was a decent ability for players whom went RHS first as they got this ability at the same time they started getting tanks. but now that they rearranged the Blitz tree swaping Blitz assault and MP blitz, the ability comes way too early usually being had while the player is in Teir 2-3.... during this time it serves no real purpouse to the player and gives no real advantage unlike most all other abilities in the game.

Blitz is a Late game ability, and was alright when it was the 3 cp ability that ended RHS of the blitz tree. however, it was re-arranged because allied players complained about how MP blitz was OP because it was effectively a 200 munition Tiger button (how in the world this is OP is beyond me, but apparently they made a compelling aurgument... or just presistantly whined until the development team caved)


i will have this ability while i have mostly Infintry on the field... and then that ability will just sit there on my command hud gathering dust because i don't have anything which is really effected by it.

[Schwarzwald]

paul, i miss it as well hated seeing it nerfed, it made sense for blitzkrieg i dont see how it was OP in anyway because of its high munitions cost and cons of gaining manpower back so slowly.

[SmFisch]

Fast tech? Go LHS first before you hit RHS so you can get to the armor before blitzkrieg becomes available? The tanks all still come out at the same time, the fact that the ability has been made easier to achieve changes very little.

[Monkeypoop]

make it so that all infantry squads throw bundled nades like assault grenade ability and all vehicles transform into robots like in that movie transformers XD

just kidding, but that would still be pretty cool. Blitz is pretty useless though, maybe just make it last longer. For a 150muni ability (read: same cost as an arty) it ought to last quite a bit longer than ftfl. Either that, or lower its cost.

Either way i still wouldnt use it cause 150 muni = 2x shrecks or 3x bundled or 6x mines or 6x nades. Would much rather use the muni to build a goliath to bust up a 17blr or use it to make ninja shreks.
Blitz itself has a lot of problems, namely in that like the pershing, the 1 tank limit hinders it a lot, and also stuH is pretty useless except for emplacement bashing, which cloaked storms do way better for way less anyway

[Pyro Paul]

Fast tech? Go LHS first before you hit RHS so you can get to the armor before blitzkrieg becomes available? The tanks all still come out at the same time, the fact that the ability has been made easier to achieve changes very little.

Both sides are supposed to be Viable 'firsts', like with every other factions doctrine list. Blitz is now the only faction that doesn't fit this equation and suffers because of it. players are Forced to go LHS simply because RHS is useless through a majority of the game. even if you quick tech, the furthest you'll get is Teir 3. and you will be suffering to shove out a Puma or StuG, both of which don't really gain much advantage with its usage.

RHS blitz was perfect before the nerf because MP blitz really helped during Teir 2-3 getting out a bunch of infintry squads quickly while but didn't really give the player any advantage in the MP war as you only spend 200 munition to basicaly get the Next 3 minutes of your MP right now then suffered for the next 3 minutes with a next to no MP income...

it just doesn't make sense any more with it in its current position. it is just useless because you will already have everything you need and not require that much MP to replace stuff.

[scotticus]

So what everyone here is saying is that you want a cheap ability 150 munitions that can double the fire power of the entire werh army, make tank traps and suppression useless, and do so for like a minute. No thanks! Blitzkrieg doesn't mean defensive or fortified position becomes obsolete. The tactic involves rapid attacks through a country with close air and artillery support. These rapid attacks don't allow for the enemy to reorganize for a proper defensive. Anyways this sounds like a terrible idea for the game play reasons.

[E-Bass]

make tank traps and suppression useless

Does Blitz Assault give medium tanks heavy crush? Interesting.

Anyhow no, I'd be against any more supression breaking abilities coming into the game on the existing factions.

[FLXleGaulois]

Does Blitz Assault give medium tanks heavy crush? Interesting. It does.


The tactic involves rapid attacks through a country with close air and artillery support Air support? Arty ? Were are they in blitz doctrine ? Give suppression break in return ^^

[akim]

I'd be against more suppression breaking abilities as well, if I played the side that had them ALL. ;)

I agree though, they should rather make fire up and heroic charge just take less suppression (but you could still get suppressed at some point), than introduce even more game destroying "magic" abilities.

Most of the subtle, but vital tactical game play, has already been thrown out the window with OF. Mainly by the introduction of the british faction. This needs to stop.

[WittmannsTiger]

Blitzkrieg kinda sucks.Its is actually only used when the game is already won for the wehr player, since you can spend those 150mun somewhere else better.

[Goobers]

It would almost be useful if Panthers didn't get their Heavy Crush back, or Tigers weren't there to do it.

I would rather have the cost reduced rather than make it break suppression. Take less suppression maybe but not break, merely for the point that it is a blitzkrieg. You don't suddenly start a Blitzkrieg when your bogged down in combat, by then its already failed.