M8s looking a little OP vs Wehr

[SourSauerKraut]

2 patches ago they got the quicker reload for the Main Gun. Tougher to face them, but still doable. With the last patch they got buffs for the MGs which now makes them a bit much for Wehr to play against. Sure, I understand they needed buffs to play versus the PE, but Wehr gets screwed as a result. Its hard for Shrecked Grens to kill 'em off cuz they get suppressed/killed much quicker (and yes, I seek cover).

I've been using Paks a lot more, but the lack of mobility prevents you from killing the M8 before it runs for repair and re-appears elsewhere. The MG buffs need to be rolled back.

[Melonplant]

Upgun a puma. Shrecked grens can't chase them, but they can prevent them from getting close. At the .50 cals maximum range it has terrible accuracy and does very little damage. It's max range is just beyond the medium range of a shreck.

So, don't chase it. If it comes to you to deal damage, it gets a shreck in the engine. The 50 cal buff is barely noticeable as is.

[B4_life]

cloaked pak one or two shots it. Problem solved.

You have to realize that because of the lower shreck accuracy at long range after the patch, you have to really start using the paks.

[Question]

Too bad paks are mediocre.

[Trizzdog]

What I do so far is use paks when I can, and 'faust it to finish it off, or merely chase it off if I lack the pak. Then I get my lovable upgunned puma and it takes care of my at support needs <3

Honestly, I can't say if this is a balance issue or not, and I don't see how the buff rollbacks would be a solution. Not enough good players using M8 against me when I'm wehr :/

[Guardsman Yoshi]

Paks are fine. 1-2 shots and bam, a dead Greyhound.

[whatsleft]

once i played against armareborn, it didnt go quite as well but he said.

to counter the greyhound, u need lots of deceit and mines.

yes, mines does wonders to greyhounds because its a light vehicle and cannot stand up to schreck grens, so it will hunt mortars and MGs. place mines around flanking position to ur MGs.

of course ur best bet is using paks and grens, those will work but definitely unreliable.

[iaguz]

once i played against armareborn,

Well, he is one of the best USA players around, I can understand why you would be having trouble against an M8 he is controlling.

I've been losing M8's mostly to Pak's these days. A well positioned one can claim an M8's scalp easily enough, assuming it's backed up by Schreks or a faust. One of the frustrating things about fighting paks is that you cannot see where it's firing from exactly, only that it did and if you don't immeadiately shift your vehicle it is going to explode.

[CroatNotBorat]

Something that always seemed to kill my M8s was panzerfausts. You learn how to avoid schrecks, you keep a mental note of their reload time, even against a couple of schrecked squads... But along comes a faust and messes it all up.

Keep a Volks squad handy. "My M8 will shoot in two seconds and the schreck will shoot in five" suddenly becomes "F*ck".

[Frosty]

With the last patch they got buffs for the MGs which now makes them a bit much for Wehr to play against.

Erm, the .50 cal. MG was only buffed against PE, because it was basically useless against them. It's not any different against Wehrmacht than it used to be.

The only indirect buff I see against Wehrmacht is, that kiting with a Greyhound is now more effective since the Panzerschreck now has some real trouble to hit at long range.

[SourSauerKraut]

Its the "finishing off" part that has been the problem too.... I could usually rely on Grens to chase a wounded M8 down and hit it at long range but the accuracy has been reduced. I like the idea of a mine near an MG/mortar, cuz that's whwere the M8s appear. Of course, I've already been trying to protect those with Paks/Grens/Volks as best I can.



Erm, the .50 cal. MG was only buffed against PE, because it was basically useless against them. It's not any different against Wehrmacht than it used to be.

As for the MG buffs for the M8, I thought they were buffed as follows: "Damage on US Turret mounted and M3 halftrack .50 cal HMGs increased vs tp_infantry_soldier". Doesn't this affect Wehr infantry as well? It sure seems like my vetted Grens are getting hurt quicker.

Re upgunned puma.....I never have one of those when an M8 first appears.....not sure how you can get one in the game that quick.....and then you've got Rangers running around and Pumas go "kaboom" much too quickly.......sigh.

[ChocoboKnight88]

As for the MG buffs for the M8, I thought they were buffed as follows: "Damage on US Turret mounted and M3 halftrack .50 cal HMGs increased vs tp_infantry_soldier". Doesn't this affect Wehr infantry as well?
No. "tp_infantry_soldier" is the armour that British and Panzer Elite soldiers use. The Americans and Wehrmacht use "tp_infantry" armour. Vet 2 Grenadiers and Rangers use "tp_infantry_riflemen_elite".

[Goobers]

Soldier Armour is exclusive to British and PE.

All Wehr and American units get Infantry, Heroic, Elite or variants there of.

[B4_life]

Too bad paks are mediocre.

Bullshit. With three camoed shot, they are really good; at least as good as the 57mm, anyways. Plus, a shreck or two makes sure they cant be flanked by vehicles, while the americans don't have anything as good as the shreck mounted on infantry.

[Question]

Their damage is mediocre, with only one shot getting the camo bonus, the only upside is that he doesnt immediately see where it is shooting from. The 57mm is not only cheaper, the AP rounds do crazy damage against any tank it is shooting. A shreck or two also does not ensure it doesnt get flanked, since a sherman can just flank it and take out your shreck at pointblank range. A pak cant possibly kill a proper tank unless it sits there forever.

[tatatank]

well. the m8 damage is mediocre to. 50 damage a shot is not enough to kill an infantry in 1 shot. Put your men in cover and you are fine.

[CroatNotBorat]

The 57mm is not only cheaper, the AP rounds do crazy damage against any tank it is shooting.
Yeah.

Unfortunately, the only tank the 57mm with AP rounds can destroy is the StuG/H. Any other tank can just charge it head-on and make it explode.

Gone are the days of 57mm being powerful. I would much rather have an invisible AT gun that shoots really fast (so I can use it against light vehicles) than a piece of scrap metal (tanks, schrecks, doesn't matter) that I've spent a crapton of resources on and waited three billion years for it to be built.

[akim]

Plus, a shreck or two makes sure they cant be flanked by vehicles, while the americans don't have anything as good as the shreck mounted on infantry.

Enough with the shreck bashing already. It's been considerably nerfed, and unlike ranger or airborne, shrecked inf can't just hit fire up, and chase down armor even in the face of a mg.

Trade you shrecks for RRs and fire up? no?

With that said, m8s can be handled. The problem is the early stage they enter the field, which is bearable in 1v1, but is a bit over the top in 2v2+ when the brits resource boost gets a say about it. Hitting the field, sometimes as early as the 6 minute mark, they simply have free reign for far too long IMO.

[iaguz]

ACtually, 57mm AP rounds still put the pain on all Kraut armour upwards of the Super Heavies. It's just a lot more prone to schrek-i-nation then before. Positioning and support is a lot more important now.

[Splitmonkey]

I was thinking the same thing with m8s lately

Firstly the puma comes later costs more and once its upgraded it does a mediocre job against the m8 at best, plus its gimped vs infantry forever with the upgrade

Secondly the panzerfaut is sucky vs the m8 it only gets a small damage buff vs m8s.

Lastly panzershrecks cant hit light vehicles especially moving above medium range and the pak dosent cut it.

A 5 fuel cost so it costs the same as a puma and the same damage multiplyier the panzerfausts get vs stuarts would fix this issue imo.

[tatatank]

m8s cost 100 munitions to get them effective and combat ready.

A pak with a schreck within close range is perfectly able to fight off an m8. You can have both before the m8.

[Ano2]

I really have no problem with m8s. If I go tier 2 i've got shreks and paks, if I go tier 3 I go for upgunned puma.

[Question]

m8s cost 100 munitions to get them effective and combat ready.

Americans are fuel hungry, and not ammo hungry. Aside from one time per unit upgrades and the occasional off map support, they dont have anything to eat ammo. Unless you have lots of ranger/airborne squads running around with their upgrades, you really shouldnt have any problems affording that one time 100 ammo.

[Border Patrol]

too bad paks can 4 hit shermans, the heaviest allied tank youre likely to see. tell me, why is it bad now?

[Znuff]

Border Patrol, your math skills are lacking. It takes 6 shots at best even from ambush. And there is also a decent chance of deflecting shots aswell, so even that number will be higher in reality. The PAKs main use is to kill light vehicles. Marder III kills tanks, while 57mm kills everything. So not all the AT guns fill the same role.

[Border Patrol]

alright then, going off of your *six*, two paks can take on any allied tank short of churchills and pershings without coming out of camo

[whatsleft]

paks are a good counter to m8s, decent support against shermans. i think greyhound is fine against wehr for t2. but when it comes to t3, it reigns supreme, but its a different problem.

schrecks are definitely just deterrent, worthless for its cost, at most u get ur lucky 1-2 shots against m8s and thats about it. u are better off getting LMGs for ur grens and save munitions for insta-gibbing m8s with fausts.

schrecks are just that rare times when u are up against sherman spam(lol) or useful when u are up against brits.

[Znuff]

Border Patrol, you are correct in that it could happen, its just that it has a 1.2% chance of happening at long range so it isnt that likely. :bored:

[Q77]

I mostly just reserve muni's from start so my volks can use some fausts. I know it costs a few munitions especially if he pops out 2 m8's, but it's reliable way, much better than waiting for schrecked gren's IMO.

[RVBcaboose]

if theres anything op about the m8 it's the 5% bug :| man i shot the thing 4 times with shrecks at 5% and it got away.

[Kratos]

Pak haha I love those "you have a pak use it" sayers. When you are really lucky you kill it with 4 shoots, because it misses very very often. A m8 charching will be a maximum of a 2 shoot period within weapons range, so ...

[Black]

A single pak and volk squad will repel an m8 or kill it with ease. That is, if you're not completely inept at pak placement.

Two paks covering each other will deal with anything but a sherman, but this is how you deal with them later on. Another good mid-game counter is the Puma, like Trizzdog said.

Essentially the key to dealing with an m8 isn't materiel, because it is quite easy to deal with one. Anyone who has trouble with them just has to keep practicing. I cannot tell you how vexed I am by people denigrating the pak gun just because they can't use it well. The key is to anticipate when it is coming out. Depending on the flow of the battle, an American will either expedite bringing out his m8, or he'll delay it in lieu of more rifleman or whatever. I always like to get the pak gun out just before I think he's getting an m8 as a prophylactic move. Just by having the pak acts as a detriment to his investment, because an m8 isn't nearly as useful when there is significant AT on the field.

And even then, if you're caught surprised by the m8, Volks can now chase it off. I don't get schrecks very often nowadays just because volks and paks do a stellar job on their own.

[Sn1tch]

The Pak is a great counter to Motor pool units.

Sure he can flank it after you hit him twice/thrice (stealth shots), but your shrecks will finish it off if he attempts to flank. All he can do is back it up (with some luck as the Pak reloads quickly and may kill it), repair and attempt to flank it again.

[Bonnet]

I am going to redirect continuing discussion to the other m8 thread.