DOW 2 Confirmed Mk2 (READ FIRST POST!)

[Weavern]

Do not post scanned images from the magazine or discuss where to find them or you will subject to suspension or ban.

As the old thread was getting quite massive and we have great new information out, its time for a new thread!

Link to old thread (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=184430)

So to start us off we have a great summary of the PCGameplay.com preview of DOW2 from Togra. Before I post the info, let me remind everyone that you are not to ask for scans of the mag or any of the images. Nor is anyone to post the images. You are free to discuss what was in there, but not to post or link any of the scans/images.



The intel (gathered from the preview and an interview with Producer Mark Noseworthy in the same Belgian magazine, PC Gameplay (http://www.pcgameplay.com/)):

- Uses the Essence 2.0 engine with Havok physics, all optimised for DX10 and multicore support.
- It looks great, think of the DoW intro but with a bit less polygons here and there (in terms of lighting and all that it looks almost exactly the same).
- Units also use CoH-like unit AI for awareness and pathfinding to find cover and such.
- While DoW 2 shares the same (upgraded probably) engine as CoH it won't be "CoH in space", while soldiers in CoH will ask themselves if flanking the enemy is the right option, in DoW2 it will be more like Space Marines asking themselves if they should use their jetpacks to jump over an Ork squad to attack them in the back. Different settings, different kinds of warfare.
- Preview only showed a destroyed city landscape, akin to DoW (but more detailed), other tilesets will offer deserts, jungles, mountains and other cities.
- Only the Orkz and Space Marines were revealed, more races on the way obviously and to be to revealed later this year (though how many isn't known).
- Co-op campaign for both the Orkz and Space Marines, apparently not for the other to-be-revealed races.
- More focus on making units and squads unique; every unit has got a name (at least in the campaign it seems), more details and more animations.
- Relic wants to give players rewards at the end of a mission like wargear (armor, weapons, rare objects); "Let's pimp out squads with cool stuff!", you will see these items in-game as well of course.
- You'll fight your way through the campaign with the same squads.
- You can't control more than six squads! I am not sure if this is campaign-only but the preview made it sound like it wasn't.
- The squads are going to be a lot more interesting than before though.
- A squad leader (one or several?) will need to survive if you want to complete a mission; you really have to look out for your squads and don't treat them like cannon fodder.
- There is a lot more interesting commentary from the units as well; if your SM commander is holding a Thunder Hammer f.e. then the opponent will specifically comment on that, Ork Warchief saying something like "Ooh, nice hammer, but mine is bigger!". The warchief will say something else if the commander doesn't have the hammer.
- The campaign lets Space Marines operate from a spaceship, you'll get a view of an underlying planet and you'll be able to choose from different missions (which are tagged with difficulty colours, green, blue and red).
- Certain reward items won't be useable at once in the campaign, so they'll be taken back to the SM spaceship for research.
- Dreadnought can now also trample Orkz.
- No sea or air units (though jetpacks are still in of course).
- Development team of 55 people has been working on it since September 2005.
- Release in early 2009 or later.

This is just a summary, the preview also describes the battles that were shown but that wasn't really revealing. Also remember that this is a translation based on the impressions of a Belgian gamesjournalist and on a translated-to-Dutch interview, some of the info might be incorrect or poorly worded in the preview/interview itself to start with, you never know with these first-revelation articles.

I am not gonna scan the magazine since most folks probably don't understand Dutch and I also didn't think the preview was that informative (didn't focus enough on difference with DoW1, seems to talk only about the campaign). Can't say I am that excited although the screenshots look great, I expected something... bigger (in scope at least) but that's probably because there isn't much information yet anyway. :)

Teaser trailer here: http://www.demonews.de/kurznachrichten/index.php?shortnews=15986

Now enjoy speculating and discussing! Any new info can be posted here.

[FerociousBeast]

Hurray! Etc.

I hope that 6 squad cap is only for Space Marines. A mere 6 ork mobs ain't orky.

If DoW2 goes the limited-numbers of soldiers route, I'm going to start having nightmares of Warcraft 3...

Edit: This also from the old thread contained information on the game:


hehe I couldn't resist and bought the dutch gamemagazine.

Haven't read the article, but judging from the, thank god, many screenshots, it looks awesome.

Some quick info:

-Buildings can be occupied (like in coh)
-Envirement completely destructable ^^
-Vehicles are bigger (there were only a couple of dreadnought shots)
-LOTS of blood (i saw the screens and thought LOL)
-Over the top finishing animations
-when units are in melee, pieces of battle armor can be chopped off in the action

Mods if this isnt allowed plz delete this (but this is only general information, nothing into detail)

[Grabnutz]

Yes! Orkz! This sounds fantastic

[Imperial Dane]

@Ferociousbeast: Nor is 6 squads of guardsmen very helpful.. But it could probably just be the marines.. In any case i hope we see an announcement with some screenshots and info soon.. No amount of magazine exclusives are gonna help there as i am living in Denmark, and there seems to be nothing in that regards.

[HotForever]

I am glad that DOW2 is finally confirmed but it really worries me that there is a possibility of no base building... I recommend Relic to stick with the gameplay style of DOW instead of trying to be too "adventurous".

[yzi2]

So pleased that my favourite race the OrK BoYz won't be kicked out of DoW 2 !!! Thank you, God-Emperor.. ermm I mean, Gork and Mork ! Muhaha daka-dakka :) :Loco:

[alisbin]

it depends on how big the squads are, 6 ork mobs with 30 or so boyz each is PLENTY orky :)

i like that it'll be a smaller scale and with the idea of taking care of your troops, DOW has definitely got too much of a meatgrinder feel for my tastes. maybe people will actually be forced to use tactics *gasp* to win instead of finding a good BO and build spamming!

i don't get peoples reliance on base building, all it does is add another aspect that slows down the actual combat. and in my opinion, its a fluffdefying one at that, why in the world would an SM company need to build specific buildings to call in troops that are basically only a drop coordinate away up on their battlebarge. if they found it somehow neccesary then they'd figure out a new way so they COULD hit with full desired strength.

plus even an ork takes time to grow a warrior, your not going to be making new ones on the battlefield, and only a stupid commander fields a force thats less then he feels he needs if the troops are available. hell, even IG conscript troops take a few hours to train so they can last a few extra seconds in battle.

seriously, what army would limit itself on what troops it can deploy by having to build deployment structures on the ground DURING BATTLE. and also, what army would say "hmm wouldnt it be a great idea to drop all the troops in with nothing but the most basic of weaponry and upgrade everything in the field during battle, yeah thats brilliant!".

[krakjen]

Maybe it will be 6 squads for all, but the size of said squads will be scaled accordingly (huge squads for orkz/guards)...
hopefully they seriously worked on the pathing, so having many units won't be an issue.

Edit: Damn alisbin, you said it just before me.

[ricolikesrice]

well considering in TT....

6 tactical squads = 30-60 space marines

6 ork mobs = 30 to 120 orks (or more, dont have codex at hand )

6 IG platoons = can be up to 200 and more individual soldiers (dont have codex at hand for exact numbers)

.... i wouldnt be too worried. :science:

[krakjen]

Also, they'd better put the Tyrannids in the original DoW2 or they will face much nerd rage.
We have been waiting for them for too long...

[Enochian]

No make it NEW and differant so we can stop hearing from the friggin spacecraft players about how GW and dow copy them.

If its better its better base or no base. Anyways thats all just heres(a)y right now anyways.

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

I suspect that guard won't make it in... I imagine Relic were probably sick of normal humans after CoH and OF.

The context-sensitive sounds look very interesting though- I loved them in CoH and it looks like they're getting even more polish in DoW2.

I really hope however that we see faction-specific music in this one. Especially because DC onwards went to great lengths to score each race uniquely. I'm cautiously optimistic, since the British and PE from OF got their own "ambient" and "battle" music...

[yzi2]

True, true. But if not in the original DOW2 they will come into an expansion. On the other hand, I think that the Orkz will be facing the 'Nids and the Ultramarines in the DOW2 campaign.

[FerociousBeast]

This also from the old thread contained information on the game:


hehe I couldn't resist and bought the dutch gamemagazine.

Haven't read the article, but judging from the, thank god, many screenshots, it looks awesome.

Some quick info:

-Buildings can be occupied (like in coh)
-Envirement completely destructable ^^
-Vehicles are bigger (there were only a couple of dreadnought shots)
-LOTS of blood (i saw the screens and thought LOL)
-Over the top finishing animations
-when units are in melee, pieces of battle armor can be chopped off in the action

Mods if this isnt allowed plz delete this (but this is only general information, nothing into detail)

[under_score]

I'm thinking, Orks and Space marines might be the only races in the first release, think company of heroes, that originally came out with 2 races, easier to balance, quicker release etc.

I can't wait for more details, screenies etc. and most importantly details on multi-player.

[YaddaYadda]

Hoping for an epic fight between Gabriel and Gorgutz.

[Patronicus]

well considering in TT....

6 tactical squads = 30-60 space marines

6 ork mobs = 30 to 120 orks (or more, dont have codex at hand )

6 IG platoons = can be up to 200 and more individual soldiers (dont have codex at hand for exact numbers)

.... i wouldnt be too worried. :science:


Oh, good point on that.

[cagecrawler]

Co-op campaign and customisable units... :D

Looks like Relic are doing what they do best - innovation.

[neucromaner]

only show two races
i am so dissapointed

but i am happy that they are even making dow2
i thought they have move on

[LoneWolf666]

I guess Relic might be making DoW2 like this is (RTT) because they have reserved the RTS category for CoH franchise and possibly to avoid the clash with Starcraft 2 (and their own CoH games).

And to those already jumping at me for daring to suggest no base-building in DoW2, well, that is my gut feeling. Like it was when I dared to suggest that (GASP!) CoH would feature a HP system. :)

[neucromaner]

Also, they'd better put the Tyrannids in the original DoW2 or they will face much nerd rage.
We have been waiting for them for too long...
i agree, they must put in tyrannids
if they have to, they can take out chaos.

[Imperial Dane]

@Ferociousbeast: All those sound good, even that bit with armour being chopped off (could mean you could get a battle worn look for your marines)

And again, there has been no mention of base building not being in, so please, stop acting as if it was the truth.

And even more importantly. .We need screenshots ! (This is starting to become a chant.. or perhaps.. A cant !)

[dams]

orks omg yeah!The essence 2.0 engine must be awesome!Looking forward to it!Imo there must be 2 more races which aren't revealed yet anyway as long as there are orks...

[Sturmer]

Yes Co-op is possible and you play as the SM AND as the orcs!

I personally think there will be 3 or 4 races. In the interview they said that there will be, offcourse, SM and Orcs, but at some point in the campaign there will be an invasion of alien forces. This can be either Tyranids or Eldar (are there any other alien forces, i am not a dow expert).

I am guessing its SM, Orcs, and Tyranids.

[Hello_Moto]

So what was the point of Soulstorm if everyone is gonna hope on the DoW2 (tenative) release bandwagon of 2009.

kinda makes SS redundant rather quickly, non?

[krakjen]

Ho yeah, about the engine.
Essence 1.0 is the CoH engine right?
So it's not just a modified version, it's a real update (2.0)...

[Hirmetrium]

DA BOYZ IS BACK IN TOWN BOSS!!!! WAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

[krakjen]

I personally think there will be 3 or 4 races. In the interview they said that there will be, offcourse, SM and Orcs, but at some point in the campaign there will be an invasion of alien forces. This can be either Tyranids or Eldar (are there any other alien forces, i am not a dow expert).

Tyrannids, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necron, Tau, (Squats haha)...
Accursed xenos !

Edit: Spelling

[Shadow Walker]

I am very very happy that da boyz made it!but still I want some info about Tyranids.

[FrostPaw]

kinda makes SS redundant rather quickly, non?

No, early 2009 for DoW2 they are just announcing it now you don't get to play it yet. Soulstorm is available to play now.

Glad I could clear that up for you. :)

[SubZero]

I'd imagine they'd be going alot more with fluff than their own ideas.

i.e. 6 Squads of Marines is more than a match for almost all opponents; they may have 'critical' chance of massive damage or instant kill at range, whereas other more swarm-like races will not.

[Vexing_Jester]

@ krakjen:

none of those need the "s" but tyranids and squats.


Oh, and don't forget about Zoats ^^


Edit: lol geez, this thread moves so quick

[ImmortalChaos]

I don't know how I've missed this for so long, but I can confirm bricks have been shat.

[YaddaYadda]

DA BOYZ IS BACK IN TOWN BOSS!!!! WAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
WE'ZE GONNA STOMP DA BEAKIES GOOD!!! ORKS!! ORKS!!! ORKS!! ORKS!!!

[Vexing_Jester]

The Eldar have to show up to clean up the Green Filth...

[Fumarole]

Seeing as how DoW2 won't be released for at least another year I'd hardly say that makes Soulstorm "redundant."

[Ark]

@ Weavern: Are we allowed to post scans of the article once the mga isreleased? For those who have not bought it yet.
-
I can't wait for this thing. I'm already starting on saving for the pimped out rig. Gonna buy a case and new drives this weekend. ( :p Don't think I'm going crazy I've been needing a new PC.)

[Mardhyn]

Pretty sure scans are a nono either way. Though the scans will find themselves on the internet soon anyways.

[Riess]

To repeat (from the old thread): No, scans of magazines are not allowed, neither image nor text. We gotta be really strict with copyright issues concerning exclusive material.

I bet we're going to see less restricted info soon in any case.

[krakjen]

Are we allowed to post scans of the article once the mga isreleased? For those who have not bought it yet.
Some of us can't buy it anyway.
It's not like I'm gonna order it from another country...

Edit: But yeah, no scan here. Copyright issues and such.

[TechieZero]

Is it April already? Yes I am skeptical...

[Hirmetrium]

To back the semptember 2005 comment:
I reference this (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=77709) thread. Notice the posting date is october, meaning that that was a pretty swift pickup.

[Energizer Bunny]

I don't know how I've missed this for so long, but I can confirm bricks have been shat

ROFL. Me too. I knew about it anyway from the PCG thing, but still hearing it confirmed sent shivers down my spine.

I'll sum up my thoughts from the other thread as briefly as I can.

1. Fantastic to hear its at such an advanced stage of development. 55 people working on it since 2005 is a hell of a lot better than I'd hoped for (which was 2 work experience guys having done 20 mins in a closet and here's a sketch of a stick man killing a tyranid.

2. Delighted to hear that, from the screenshot description its going to maintain the cartoony feel that the original had. DoW is not CoH and it should not aspire to be, even if it runs on the same engine

3. Most important of all, I am thrilled that Relic is not treating this as a clone of DoW. I don't understand the 6 squads thing any better than anybody else, but I am utterly delighted that it sounds like they really went back to the drawing board with the game. I did not want DoW1 with a new graphics engine to = DoW2

4. Glad orks got in ahead of Eldar. Orks are the heart (in character terms) of DoW to me. Is it a reasonable assumption to therefore say that IG/DE/SoB/Nec's/Tau have bitten the dust? I reckon so, and would probably add Eldar to that list. Surely the starting races are SM/Chaos/Nids/Orks

[ZimZum]

I hope they drop their horrible sync kills in favour of more practical ones. The Eldar are athletic, fine, but why are the Rangers spastically leaping in the air or what have you.

[Zenny Ark]

Oh sweet Jesus Christ, Havoc physics engine? If I recall that's the same one for Smash bros. Brawl, and that's not entirely a good thing >__>

[Sturmer]

In the interview they said that the production started september 2006.

2005 seems false.

[Edgar Valen]

This may have already been stated.

But has anyone considered the six squad system may be adjusted to each specific race? Or a system limited to the SM's themselves? This would certainly put down all the complaints about SM's not being portrayed as fluff if they make them powerful but less numerous.

Also, they may have shown the demo from the SM perspective and not the orks. Alot of the details provided above seem to me like they are a part of a system for SM's. Could be wrong though...

I just find it hard to believe you can limit the orks, nids, and IG to six squads. Even if you say increase the squad number depending on race it seems a bit odd. These are big swarm armies that overwhelm with sheer numbers. Six squads doesnt sound like it would do justice to those races.

Sounds like more of a Space Marine, Eldar, or Inquisition system.

Or it could just be a singleplayer campaign aspect. :P

But all in all good news! Thanks for the info cant wait till April!

[DougyM]

Oh sweet Jesus Christ, Havoc physics engine? If I recall that's the same one for Smash bros. Brawl, and that's not entirely a good thing >__>

Its also the same one used in Half life 2, or Company Of Heroes.

They all use the same physics engine, its just that some developers are actually tallented and some are just 2 bit hacks.

[Togra]

Crap, Sturmer is right, I mislooked, it is september 2006 idd. :-\ It's the lettertype on black. If someone could change the first post, be my guest. Sorry again.

About the engine, Mark Noseworthy said in the interview that they picked the CoH engine because they could modify it and adapt it easily for the specific needs of DoW II.

[Ghengiskhan]

Agreed Havoc works very well in both HL2 and CoH so i dont see that being a problem.

[transf0rmer]

I like the idea of only using six Space Marine squads.

I can only hope that based on the description of this preview, and the comments regarding unique looking units, that you will be able to select multiple legions as well as tell a difference other than color.

[gorays]

Sturmer, how would you rate the graphics in DOW 2, it is better than SC 2 graphics??

[Zenny Ark]

These are all first shot impressions, so we really can't determine definitely if this will stay in and out, though it would make for sexy large scale epic battles which, in my opinion, always leave me well satisfied win or lose.

[Agoniser]

Well, this is certainly a surprise. I guess I should pay more attention to the forums. :D Glad to see that Orks will be in it at any rate - I'd be surprised if Chaos and Eldar don't show up too.

[Belgarath001]

Heres hoping SM squads have a massive choice of upgradeable weaponary e.g.multi-meltas, instead of just the same old 4.

[Shuma]

Sturmer, how would you rate the graphics in DOW 2, it is better than SC 2 graphics??

SC2's models and textures are on par with DoW's, so the answer would clearly be a yes. Of course SC2 is still in Alpha state.

[Kalledon]

Call me a skeptic, but I went to the link of PC Gameplay and didn't see ANYTHING related to DoW II. And while most of it is in Dutch, the game names are still all English. I'm calling BS on the OP. He's hoping none of you will check out his refrences and posting his own hopes for DoW2

[transf0rmer]

Kalledon: Look at the magazine. At the top there is a blurred out game title, its pretty clear that it is Dawn of War (to me anyway).

[Imperial Dane]

@Kalledon: It was there before it was blurred out plus the bit that mentions a mysterie trip to canada before said that they were going to talk about Dawn of War 2.

@Shuma: Uhh ? How can you say they are on par with each other ? Not saying SC2 graphics suck.. but it is hard to say without having tried both. Besides, saying SC 2 has the same graphics as DoW isn't exactly an impressing feat.

[Ultimatum]

Well boys, I guess this one Campaign that the Imperal Guard won't win for the Emperor *Ulti walks away* :cry:

[Eisenhorn538]

I love everything about this preview except for the 6 squads. It's going to end up something like this if they limit everyone to the same number of everything:

SM Sergeant: "Sir we've got the Orks in a stalemate at 6 points around the battlefield"

Force Commander: "Call in some assault marines and we will flank the greenskins while they are busy at the front"

Sergeant: "Sorry sir, Relic made some changes since the last campaign and they aren't letting us have more than 6 squads. They say we have to delete one or let them die."

Force Commander: "But that would leave part of our defense open!"

Sergeant: "Relic say tough cookies sir."

It just isn't a good idea. And with before anyone says "units can use special abilites" that isn't tactics. That's just who can click the button the fastest.

[Imperial Dane]

@Ultimatum: How do you know that ? The IG could still appear.. i hope so..

[Jopax]

Well there is something in prewiews about Warhammer march something, also i think DoW2 is gonna be better looking than SC2 because SC2 is more a massive game so i dont think that Blizz who is know for their games great optimisation is going to rouin it, but DoW2 is more of a close combat game with less units on screen and more action so i think its gonna be better :D

[Shuma]

Sadly. I still whant high poly models in SC2... :(

[Wargrim]

Release in 2009? That means we got barely enough time to call all da Boyz together and stockpile ammunition for the great smashin and stompin and dakka dakka dakka that is comming!!!

I only hope the multiplayer will be fun.

[PathFinder]

be frank, what is going to be the odds that tau is included? i loved my tau... T.T i really wanna them to put in tau...

[Shuma]

Necron, Tau, SoB, DE and IG can pretty much be ruled out i think.

[Imperial Dane]

Not IG, i think they have a chance.. but again that might be my personal preference, but otherwies, it is pretty much right, we aren't going to expect any of the races in the latest expansions.

[Shaitan]

I'm liking the way it is looking and am not really discouraged by the 6 squads concept because many things about that are still ambiguous.

About the RTT I don't think that will quite happen as it is not quite as popular and I also think that that might make it a bit trickier to do well for multiplayer. I think there will be a mininmal of base building (at least in multiplayer) a la CoH.

I'm looking forward to some screenshots and what not, hopefully stuff will be released sooner rather than later.
Edit: I also think IG will make definately be featured in the game (in an expansion though).

[Eisenhorn538]

The Imperium can't go to war properly if there's no guardsmen!

Seriously though, they are my favourite race and I hope they make it in but Relic will probably choose Chaos and Eldar over IG. So I'm hopping that they will play a supporting role like they did in vanilla DoW. Then bring the hammer of the Emperor back in the first expansion!

[Imperial Dane]

So I'm hopping that they will play a supporting role like they did in vanilla DoW. Then bring the hammer of the Emperor back in the first expansion!

That would be my second preference in regards to the Imperial guard, the first being they actually be in DoW 2.

[Kalledon]

So I googled around and the only thing I could find on the PC Gameplay "Image" is that it's just an ad like what's in March's PC Gamer.

[Imperial Dane]

Just wish that Buggo or Nessy could tell us something about an official announcement and some screenshots..

[FrostPaw]

Sergeant: "Sorry sir, Relic made some changes since the last campaign and they aren't letting us have more than 6 squads. They say we have to delete one or let them die."

As long as we can delete them or order them to fall back off the map I'll be fine with it.


I think the CoH method of having to kill your own men in order to free up pop cap was by far the worst part of that game.

[Steel*Faith]

I'm a very happy man today.

I really hope they have 4 races to start. SM, Orks, Tyranids, Tau.

I'm sick of Chaos and Eldar. I want to see some new races make a start, and see the Eldar and Chaos done right in expansions. Tzeentch knows Chaos needs some creativity and not a copy and paste of SM.

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

Well delete is a pretty close second for horribleness in my opinion. What's so hard about allowing you to "recall" forces by ordering them to enter the building they came from? Heck, I'd even go for the WiC method of "fade away slowly" over "lol I no has rum for u ne more die now kthx".

[Imperial Dane]

Yeah, and with the space marines it seems pretty wasteful, i mean imagine getting rid of a dreadnought.. you just kill it ! I mean these are the heroes of the chapter, but hey you need a predator, so they need to die.. Never liked that.

[Hirmetrium]

Release in 2009? That means we got barely enough time to call all da Boyz together and stockpile ammunition for the great smashin and stompin and dakka dakka dakka that is comming!!!

I only hope the multiplayer will be fun. Boss! its da burna boyz! Dey iz rebellin'!!! Dem Footstompaz iz too boss! weze need moreh boyz!

6 squads sounds ridiculous. I'm guessing its more likely 6 PERSISTANT squads.

[Imperial Dane]

6 squads sounds ridiculous. I'm guessing its more likely 6 PERSISTANT squads.

That would be a very reasonable guess as well. But i think we will get to know more about this as information trickles out.. Hopefully from some internet sources as well.. with screenshots.

[Eisenhorn538]

The thing about deleting troops instantly is that it also frees up space instantly. However the fall back option is realistic but it takes time for the space to free up unless they make it so fall back is permanent and you can't recall them at all.

Personally I'm fine with either instantly or having to wait usually but in a game where you only have 6 squads that's a hell of a drain on your army.

[FrostPaw]

I like the suggestion that you will be able to name your units...maybe they are randomly named but would be cool if you could name them aswell.

[sporty]

I'd actually prefer Space Marines operating in small detachments, but with an awesome combat performance.

Best news is that da ORKS! are in! Now bring on the screenies!
Can't wait :D

[TheLoneKnight]

You know, guys, it could simply be six -troop- squads, which would not count for Elite/HQ/Fast Attack/Heavy Support units. There's always the chance that Relic is inexplicably taking a more tabletop-inspired route with DoW2.

Given that there was also mention of wargear that you could use to kit out your troops there's always the chance that those six troops are going to be fairly well customised. Instead of deleting one, for example, you might simply remove a rocket launcher and stick in a plasma gun for your tac squad.

I don't mind the squad numbers being so low, to be perfectly honest. You aren't likely to need more than six or so unless you're creating a blob of one unit type - which they're hopefully going to make extremely detrimental to your survival - unless you're orks, of course.

[Edgar Valen]

Well after DC and Soulstorm I am a bit tired of them pitting the Imperial forces against each other.

I would hope that in DOW 2 that the Imperial guard if not a faction at least have a cameo supporting the SM as they did in DOW. If they are going to turn this into a Tyranid and Sm campaign then they would have to bring in the IG as they are the backbone of every imperial army.

Space Marines are the special forces!

Let's get back to the Imperium of Man killing the xenos, mutant, and heretic. Not each other!


(My hopes are for SM, IG, ORK, And Nids)

[LoRd KoRn]

What's the problem with 6 squads? Most DoW(1) games are absolved with less squads per race on the field at the same time.
1 Terminator squad (assault or normal)
1 Assaultsquad
2 Tactical squads
1 Scout squad
and heros (given they are not counted as "squads")
and vehicles
to me that sounds like a decent big army in DoW(1) to control. Mindless overwatch spam is something different though.

[Jobhug]

My money is on tyrannids, eldar, or guard (most probably the first two, but I reckon guard would probably fit the story) being skirmish only races who appear as non playable enemies or allies in the campaign, so no variable comments about wargear and so on, with chaos and whichever of those missed out for the first expansion.

[Shuma]

Why would the Eldar get in before Chaos?

[Enochian]

If they put only two races in dow2 when theres nine now im done. Thats one of the draws to playing dow you have so much to choose from. Four or more at the very least. All nine too start is to much too ask im sure but thats what i want to see personally.

You will always see imperium fighting imperium. In tt and in the game. They do fight each other and in fact the sisters were created to watch over marines and anyone else thats tough and may be fallen to chaos. Marines and imp gaurd clash quite often in fluff. And marine on marine has happened many times in the past as well. It is one of the few things that fits the fluff so lets leave it that way.

Its easy enough to set up online games to play that way if you like right now.

[blueboy93]

Screenshots.

I am literally begging.

[Imperial Dane]

Screenshots.

I am literally begging.

You're not the only one..

:Hail:

[SubakuGaara]

Please include chaos terminator lords and you will have me sold.

Maybe include this eldar guy too..

http://us.games-workshop.com/download/popup.htm?/games/40k/eldar/painting/germanshadowseer/images/schnitzler_b.jpg

[Frankie7508]

This is going to be the longest year ever...

[Zenny Ark]

If Relic and THQ learn from their mistakes they'll make less races and keep it as low as possible while making each race so damn fun that you'll wish they didn't make an orgy out of races like they have in the first.

[omegaweapon25]

i think the first thing that jumped out at me in the first post of summarys was the unique dialogue that will be added in battles. like the example that was used with the Force Commander w/hammer vs. Ork Warchief. small things like this is what i appreciate. reminds me of Capcom vs. SNK 2 and various other fighting games that have unique intros depending on the characters versing each other (Ken vs Ryu, Geese vs Terry, Kyo vs Iori, etc.). that was one of the coolest aspects. of course, the other stuff in the summary sounded great as well (though im a little iffy on the 6 Marine squad cap, even if its more accurate to fluff) and i look forward to hearing more juicy tidbits on this hopefully awesome sequel. :D

[Eisenhorn538]

What's the problem with 6 squads? Most DoW(1) games are absolved with less squads per race on the field at the same time.
1 Terminator squad (assault or normal)
1 Assaultsquad
2 Tactical squads
1 Scout squad
and heros (given they are not counted as "squads")
and vehicles
to me that sounds like a decent big army in DoW(1) to control. Mindless overwatch spam is something different though.

1. It limits your options with what you can do on the battlefield (with some races)

2. Makes it harder to adapt to the enemies tactics. Say you give your tac squads all plasma guns. He comes out with heavy armour. You can fall back but you can't create another squad with missile launchers unless you delete them. If you do delete them then that's one sixth of your army gone, a significant amount.

3. Some of us build more than 6 squads to win a match

4. Some us do win with 6 or less but we don't like to feel limited. If the enemy catches you on the backfoot you can still make a counter squad with the spare pop cap.

[Enochian]

What i want is for the lord to be made to adept to the squad hes with. put him in terminators hes a terminator, put him in an assult squad he has a jump pack.

and customizable in the online game as well. so no ones lord's are the same even in online play. You earn the ability to take more items online the more you play the campaign that would be sweet. And if they can be named seeing them gain experiance and or veteran status for continued use would be very nice.

[Cadian Guard]

"I love everything about this preview except for the 6 squads. It's going to end up something like this if they limit everyone to the same number of everything:

SM Sergeant: "Sir we've got the Orks in a stalemate at 6 points around the battlefield"

Force Commander: "Call in some assault marines and we will flank the greenskins while they are busy at the front"

Sergeant: "Sorry sir, Relic made some changes since the last campaign and they aren't letting us have more than 6 squads. They say we have to delete one or let them die."

Force Commander: "But that would leave part of our defense open!"

Sergeant: "Relic say tough cookies sir."

It just isn't a good idea. And with before anyone says "units can use special abilites" that isn't tactics. That's just who can click the button the fastest."

wow....just wow...you think so small....so very small...why the fuck would u not bring assaults if they allow the choice...if you set up your squads pre battle then you can ensure you will survive....

6 squads is perfectly fine...in basic DoW i get by with 6 squads as SM (3x tacs with reockets, 3x tacs with heavy bother)
also its says they are customizable as in they get better
Just treat it like TT 40k and you should be fine.
example- SM army 2x tacs, 1xassault, 1x scout, commander....if counts as squad, dread

Commander: Send the scouts ahead to set up a permineter and have the tacs and dread move to hold the line if the orks try to flank us. Also have assaults stick by the scouts to take over positions and hold up any squads.

Scouts: sir were see 6 squads of various orks.

Commander: okay I'll send the tacs and dread to get their attention and drown em in heavy bolter fire. You scouts will provide sniper cover. When the orks have been beaten back assault the stragglers with assault squad.


although it does sounds like they are making a DoW version of Full Spectrum Warrior Ten Hammers....but more epic and set in 40k and with melee....and hopefully not all bout cover...

[SubakuGaara]

It bothers me that nobody is asking for chaos when the whole 40k universe is really about SM and CSM. All the other races just get in the way. If you really look at the 40k universe and compare it to the DOW games, you'll see that chaos was the most poorly done race. I mean look at the possessed ones in the game and compare them to what they should really look like

http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=305649&orignav=300901&ParentID=259602&GameNav=10

Chaos has the most unit types and variations of unit, yet it was so poorly done that most people see them as boring. The other races, SM for example, all pretty much look exactly how they should look. Compare the standard CSM model in TT with that of the DOW game and its apparent the glaring differece, yet compare the Standard unit for any other race (say the SM tac) and they pretty much are identical.

If you compare to SM, SM was converted pretty well because there are very few units to actually bring over. Go look at the list in the thread for units wanted for SM in DOW2 and compare it to the list for CSM units wanted in DOW2. The csm list is about 25 units long and the SM list is only 3 or 4 I believe. Even the varying chapters alone are so different. One entire csm chapter is essentially robots with csm souls infused. They fight like necron but thirst for chaos!

My point is, CSM has the most potential as a race for future DOW games. The total unit types has barely been scratched and the fact that the varying factions are so different leaves worlds of opportunity open. The variance within a few single chaos chapter is more than the variance in other entire races!!!! If there's any race that must be included it has to be chaos.

[blueboy93]

Personally, I'm more than happy to have Chaos as a faction in DoW2. But, more effort in them please. :P

[Pokey ork]

Good God I nearly fainted! I love the Dow series and this is just brilliant news. Plus my favourite Greenies are still in! Hope to see Gorgutz having another Waaagh. Heck if we are lucky mabye Gabriel will be making a return to do finally put down Gorgutz. Though I personally hope Gorgutz lives :S Relic has made him an icon of some form.

[RedDeath]

@ Shuma :
Because Eldar always has something to do with everything. Plus they are one sexy race ;)
Seriously though, why shouldn't Eldar be included? They have their own playstyle, they are very well created with amazing background stories and they are always meddling in someone elses business.
I know people are gonna scream "Protoss11! SC2 clone rofl!!11!" but the Eldar are so much more than that.
The Eldar are a race that's so very detailed and have so varied units.
Plus, consider the option of an ALL-CHAOS expansion, featuring the 4 colours of Chaos + the Undivided. Not only would that please so many fans that has been begging for this forever but also would it change Chaos. They would no longer be Marine clones but something else. Something own, something unique. They would finally be their own race.
I think that is a valid reason enough for letting Eldar take the 4th slot (that is if the 3rd race is 'Nids).
The only minus side to this theory (according to me anyways) is that we might have to put up with Taldeer again...

[omegaweapon25]

It bothers me that nobody is asking for chaos when the whole 40k universe is really about SM and CSM. All the other races just get in the way. If you really look at the 40k universe and compare it to the DOW games, you'll see that chaos was the most poorly done race. I mean look at the possessed ones in the game and compare them to what they should really look like

http://store.us.games-workshop.com/...9602&GameNav=10

holy schnikeys, those models are CRAZY awesome looking! its kinda ironic because ive checked out the actual tabletop models of every race EXCEPT Chaos, so this is a surprise. no doubt, Possessed Marines NEED to look like this in DoW2, if in fact Chaos make it in there. im not too crazy about Chaos myself, though.

[KuRtCoS]

Early 2009? I expect is released later, so I can save money enough to get a decent comp to run it :P

[Sephiroth]

I have seen screenshots of the magazine...

Let's just say that EE 2.0 reminds me of BioShock, but instead of the big daddy's there are walking red robots of doom... :)

Don't bother asking where I found them, cause one of the mods will surely kick my a$$.

[Sir Clausel]

well I agree the possesed marines is madly ugly but those minis was released after DOW. The plastic spacemarines termies wasnt even released yet!

[Diode]

Awesome news!!! I think I'm gonna cry (kind of emotional right now, *sniff, *sniff, ...........sorry)

On a more serious note. I am pulling for 4 races (one more than SC) SM, ORKS, 'NIDS, and ELDAR. But if we only get a third race, it has definitely got to be Nids.

I have never played CoH, what were some of the key gameplay differences between it and DoW? Just wondering what the Essence engine is capable of doing for DoW2. I know someone mentioned garrissoning buildings, and targeting specific locations on vehicles. What are other possibilities?

[IVE'S]

Man, since September 2005??? That totally makes up for the lack of support from DC through SS.


I know people are gonna scream "Protoss11! SC2 clone rofl!!11!" but the Eldar are so much more than that.

Wasn't the Warhammer 40k universe made before the Starcraft universe?

[Eisenhorn538]

wow....just wow...you think so small....so very small...why the fuck would u not bring assaults if they allow the choice...if you set up your squads pre battle then you can ensure you will survive....

Well I don't know, why would I? But then again I never play Space Marines because I hate their guts. Maybe that's why. I was using that situation as an example of what might happen depending on the gameplay mechanics which none of us actually know yet I might add. So sit down and take a chill pill dude.

[Ultimatum]

Please don't start that in this thread,please? :puppy:

[SubakuGaara]

I'm just going to say it again.

The variance within a few single chaos chapter is more than the variance in other entire races!!!!

The sheer number of chaos units they were left out, or dumbed down or overly simplified (every csm faction is really its own race, but in DOW they all get grouped together and made the same) is mindnumbing. Every SM, Eldar, Cron, etc unit for the most part is in the game. CSM's surface has barely barely been scratched.

[Energizer Bunny]

It bothers me that nobody is asking for chaos when the whole 40k universe is really about SM and CSM. All the other races just get in the way. If you really look at the 40k universe and compare it to the DOW games, you'll see that chaos was the most poorly done race. I mean look at the possessed ones in the game and compare them to what they should really look like

I think people aren't calling for them Subaku for the same reason people aren't really calling for SM or Nids - they know they'll be in there. Chaos are a dead cert.

To be fair to Relic, the CSM you linked to are new. Back when DoW came out the CSM models being sold by Games Workshop were a fairly close approximation of the ones in the game.

[Warp Holder]

About the PSM in DoW: those are Tzeentch's PSM; all the Chaos gods get their own set.
Those linked are probably Khorne's PSM, but I dunno...

[Shuma]

@Warp holder:

No, those are the new Possessed, the ones in DoW are older models and ugly ones too.

Also, i'm not sure if we'll see 'nids now that the Orks have been announced, maybe we'll see SM, Chaos, Orks and Eldar and IG and 'nids in an Expansion. Would make sense.

[Jobhug]

I agree with that chaos was probably the worst done race, which is why I think it warrants it's own expansion (compare the quality of tau in DC to chaos), so they can work on making it as unique as it is presented on TT (Read as work in more cult marines seeing as daemons are out).

[them apples]

so glad they included orks

[SubakuGaara]

To be fair to Relic, the CSM you linked to are new. Back when DoW came out the CSM models being sold by Games Workshop were a fairly close approximation of the ones in the game.

I agree energizer, but it does bug me that the 4 gods of chaos distort each faction so differently that they really are entire races in their own right. No one can say the thousand sons are just another csm legion. They are souls fused to armor! The truth is, there really is no such thing as a Basic csm unit. it doesn't exist. There are havocs, and plague marines, but there is no basic csm units. We csm players all been cheated for years!

The sheer number of chaos units left out or improperly modeled is indeed quite astounding. Even the chaos lord for years or the oblit has never looked quite right, yet the SM termies and FC are dead on. Quite simply put, CSM is just a fancier race and fanciness requires more work to get it right...

[loop]

Six squads may work on the tabletop game but not in an RTS. You can have 100 units in the squad but it still feels like one unit, and not too many RTS players would be happy with only having six units.

[-_MU_-]

Six squads may work on the tabletop game but not in an RTS.

Everyone needs to chill on this. We have no idea what it really means till someone from Relic explains it properly. Just sit back, and bask in the expectant glow of DoW greatness.

[The Chaplain]

It may even mean that you cannot simultaneously COMMAND more than six squads. Says nothing about the composition of a force being limited to six.

[YaddaYadda]

There are havocs, and plague marines, but there is no basic csm units. We csm players all been cheated for years!
The Undivided Marine is the basic one. Cult troops are dedicated to a certain god and therefore not basic while havocs are heavy support and have a loyalist version aswell (Devastators).


Even the chaos lord for years or the oblit has never looked quite right, yet the SM termies and FC are dead on.
Termies = gorillas
FC = too much bling

[ChaosReigns]

I HOPE it's only SM and Orks. I would prefer near perfect balance and polish to insane variety. Maybe one or two other races could make cameos for certain missions in the campaign though?

Wow, so I guess this means that DoW2 is being made beyond any shadow of a doubt...cool!

By the sounds of the preview DoW2 has the potential to seriously give Starcraft 2 a run for its money. Certainly if balance in DoW2 is exceptional DoW2 will be the better game (if all goes well).

[ZimZum]

Not so much a balance nut myself as a screenshot whore, I have every faith that it will look awesome.

[Shuma]

If it's only Orks and SM i'll kill someone, at least Chaos must be a race. And no, DoW 2 whont "give SC2 a run for it's money" simply because SC2 has Starcraft stamped on it.

And they whont come at the same time.

Edit:

Don't worry, it does look awesome, better than CoH.

[Burns]

Its just previews. Although with a total of what 9 races now theyre sure gonna be hard put to make the same impression without "doing the same thing all over again". But generally its the detail of coh mixed with the awesomeness of dow and with that they cant go wrong.

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

I find myself agreeing with making Chaos an expansion. If there are 4 races to start with including Chaos, then Chaos is going to get less than 25% of the attention, and they'll pretty much be locked in with however they're realised in the first game.

However, if they dedicate an entire expansion to Chaos, given that they seem to be able to cope with 2 races in an expansion normally, there's probably enough time to get all four Chaos Gods realised properly.

[YaddaYadda]

Concerning Chaos: I won't expect them to have more branches than the Imperium.
Not to mention that there aren't many color schemes available if they include the Thousand Sons or Emperors Children.
The most common Chaos force would be undivided and I'm pretty sure that's what we're going to get.

[repojam]

As much as I love Chaos, I would really like to have real time devoted to making Chaos a lot better than it was in DoW. While I still play and love Chaos, I'd like to see real differences shown between the World Eaters(yay!) and the Thousand Sons.

If they don't have the time to really detail Chaos out, or at least make some sort of way of making the armies that are devoted to Khorne different than those devoted to Nurgle, then it may not be a good move to make Chaos, unless they want to follow the Chaos undivided idea and give us a vanilla Chaos. Again. I hope that's not the plan.

Of course, I'll still have Space Marines, and that's enough to make me smile. I just hope that there's more than Orcs to shoot at. That'll give me bad memories of Warcraft, and it's sad, because I've shot at Orks much longer with Warhammer, just on a tabletop and pushing models.

[Zenoth]

But what if they've done Chaos right out of the box? Would you guys complain still? We don't know if there are more races than SM and Orkz, heck they could make the Kroots as a third major race for what we know. If they've been working on it for at least three years who knows what they've managed to accomplish. It can be anything at this point, it's all speculation and nothing else.

[YaddaYadda]

it's all speculation and nothing else.
That's what this thread is about.

[Unsung Duck]

So far everything sounds great, CoH engine, amazing graphics, being able to occupy buildings and destructable enviroments. Nice to see the return of sync kills returning and armour comming off in battle sounds interesting.

I thinkl the 6 squads thing might be exclusive to campaign or maybe it's just six persistant squads that gain more experiance the more you play.

[Esa]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z8mmv44doIo

Dun dun duu.

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

Oh I wouldn't complain if Chaos were in- they were my main race until Winter Assault. However, it would be nice to have the spotlight on them that a race of their size deserves, and that, unless Relic work really hard on them in the original, will require an expansion dedicated to them.

[Sturmer]

Before i am gonna go to bed, i am gonna re-read the article (its 0030 here).

Just wanna say again the article gave an impression of how the campaign will be (not too detailed however, again a general impression) and the interviewer also saw two battles between sm and orks. He described it and I must say I am very excited. Something to look forward to.

From my previous post:

The pics:

There's a screen of an Ork Warboss taking on three space marines. The warboss looks really brutal. With his right hand he picks up a space marine and crushes him in the air, with his left arm he's holding a chainsaw i think, and sawing the space marines in two?(pic is rather small so not to clear), a third marine attacks the ork from behind.

There's a screen from a Commander with a warhammer, charging an Ork Warboss.

The most brutal pic is that one of a dreadnought that slams his left arm into an ork, and the blood splashes in the air ^^

After looking real good, i can see the tongue of an orc coming out of its mouth with mucus.

Another pic is that of a battle between two dreadnoughts and some thirty orks i think (plus behind some cover, a few space marines supporting the dreadnoughts with heavy bolters).

A space marine with a flamer roasting some orks.

A rather large battle, involving three predators i guess (wasnt too clear, looked like two of 'em were already destroyed) many orks and some orks were obliterated by an orbital bombardement (that's right ^^).

A close combat marine (forgot the name, with the jetpacks, yes that one), bursting his jetpacks and flying into the air.

Two brutal finishing animations pics, but they werent too clear.

And a pic orks occupying a LARGE building(looked like a cathedral), some marines assaulting it.

AND:

The developer said that in the course of the campaign, the space marines would encounter OTHER RACES.

I quote this from the magazine: In the full game there will be diffrent worlds and diffrent races, all presented in a diffrent envirement (deserts, jungles, mountains, cities...it will all be included).
Also: NO Air- or Sea-units.

[ZimZum]

You know, there's a small round screenshot of the orbital bombardment, and the sillhouetted figures being hurled through the air almost look like Eldar. Just a thought, since they look too slim to be Orks and there's already been pointless orbital bombardment fappage on the previous pages.

Edit: Eh, now that I look at it it's iffy.

[Warp Holder]

Sea units...
I don't recall sea engagements in the Warhammer 40,000 universe. Perhaps space battleships cover that role.

[SubakuGaara]

The thing is whilst there are other races in teh 40k universe, the universe and story revolves around SM and Chaos; everyone else really just gets in the way. Look at eldar and DE. The biggest event in their history involves the birth of one of the chaos gods.

SM and CSM are for the most part dead locks. We'll probably see 5 races, with nids, eldar and orks. I just hope proper time is devoted to really fleshing these races out. (More heroes, more special units, more fluffy stuff)

[them apples]

dow 2 shits on sc2 don't even make the comparison, judging by sc2 screens it doesn't look like anything groundbreaking, other than a few cool lines of code like the black hole effect, the essence engine is still leaps and bounds better than anything blizzard produced.

[Reaverwolf]

With a maximum of six Space Marine squads is it safe to gander that the game will follow the force organisation chart that is listed in the SM codex? If it's true that they're moving more towards TT I sincerely hope they include some kind of CHAPTER TRAITS, also listed in SM codex, so that customization would be easier. Also, hopefully the different space marine chapters and ork clanz made it into the game!!!
RELEASE ME FROM THIS BLOOD RAVEN CHAIN :ballchain !

This would mean...
COMPULSORY/MANDATORY
1 HQ (Commander, Chaplain, Librarian, Command Squad)
2 Troops(Scout Squads, Tactical Marine Squads)

OPTIONAL
1 HQ (Commander, Chaplain, Librarian, Command Squad)
3 Elites(Terminator Squad, Terminator Assault Squad, Veteran Squad, Dreadnought, Techmarine)

OPTIONAL
3 Fast Attack(Assault Squad, Land Speeder Squad, Bike Squad, Attack Bike Squad, Scout Bike Squad)
3 Heavy Support (Devastator Squad, Vindicator, Predator Annihilator and Destructor, Whirlwind, Land Raider and Land Raider Crusader)

[Grabnutz]

Lets halt the starcraft comparisons right here, as neither game is even out yet...

[Shuma]

Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

Aniway, DoW 2. Do you think 'nids still have a chance now that the Orks have been announced?

[zuma]

yes, so glad to hear this!
oh man, i drool at the thought of a warboss rendered with the essence 2.0 engine >_<
i hope relic keeps the gameplay innovative, like how DoW vanilla and CoH were upon their release.

[Delixe]

I agree with most posters that the smart move would be to make the core game just 4 maybe even 3 races (SM, Ork and Nids) then Relic can take some real time on the expansions like they did with WA and CoH:OF. They could lavish real detail on the races and in the end earn a lot more money for THQ making everyone happy.

Core game: Space Marines, Orks, Tyranids
The Lost and the Damned: 4 selectable cults of chaos and Undivided
Armies of the Imperium: Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, Inquisition
Eldar: Craftword and Dark
Then finally Tau and Necrons

That would be one more expansion than we had with DoW but would give us a total of 15 distinct races.

[Frankie7508]

I don't see there being any reason that two races that focus on massing troops should be a problem. As long as they differentiate them enough, there shouldn't be an issue.

[BarxBaron]

Orkz in = win

Nuff' said.

[Steel*Faith]

Only 2 races to start in DOW II would be too borig in the long run. They aren't going to make only 2 starting races, so it's pointless to say.

I really hope they will make Chaos diverse, and let players choose what aspects of the gods to focus on. Chaos is not a favorite of mine, but they are the ultimate villans.

I still think Tau have a lot of potential and deserve more spotlight. They are also a diverse and interesting army to play with if made right. Although I suppose any army can be fun or diverse to play.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Tau Empire and Orks clash in DoWII for sure.

[Zenny Ark]

Since the SC2 and DoW2 comparisons are flying everywhere I might as well add in mine. What if, instead of removing buildings altogether, why not follow a bit of SC example. In SC you have plenty of build options, whether starting with vehicles, certain units etc. What if you had the ability to create methods where you could call in units speciific to a chapter for example. How about if you're more into Tzeentch and create a building where you can summon units that God has. And for Space Marines who are already confirmed it could be chapter-wise to the players' tastes. Just another random speculation.

[The Chaplain]

I think that they'd put DE and Eldar in before IG, SoB, or the Inquisition (not even announced, so it's iffy), Delixe.

[Schmapdi]

A few thoughts -

Ugh - I'm going to have to upgrade my machine a lot to run this :(

Yay - for more unique, non-disposable squads that you can pimp out with wargear. This doesn't work so good for races like Ork or IG though, who seem big into disposability.

I really think they'll start with the same Marine/Ork/Chaos/Eldar as before. It would be beneficial imo to start with the more "vanilla" races at release so they can work on things like the engine and mechanics at first, before they have to start tinkering with balancing out races that don't operate to the standard protocol. (Like Necron Economy, or DE soul powers, etc etc - those things are better suited to an expansion imo).

*The relatively impending release of DOW 2 does leave me a little concerned about balance in SS though. As it seems like the notion of "aww screw it, we'll get it right on the next try" is bound to creep in. Where it would be different if we had to make due with SS for 2+ years.

[Mr.Pickles]

Yay for 6 space marine squads! Hopefully their armor will be closer to their table top counterparts rather than the paper armor featured in DoW.

On another note, in the newest issue of PC GAMER (United States), the last page said that next month's issue (June), was going to have a Warhammer mega-article featuring all new Warhammer games, both 40k and fantasy.

[_vertinox_]

Just heard the news.

This stuff is awesome. Sounds like more of an RPG combined with an RTS which sounds awesome as heck. I love wargear to death so if you have entire squads that are customizable I'm going to start having to start budgeting to get the new computer just to play DoW2 ;)

[hivetyrant765]

*stumbles upon thread, reads it*

HOSHI-

*begins praying for chaos, necrons, and tyranids*

:P

[{OGS}Sirius]

So weavern this mean i can go crazy excited now? i mean its officaly confirmed. @.@ i can get so happy that i would slap both my parrents. @.@ can i kick bums with joy and shout out DOW 2 is coming and all else will shake in its presecence is it 100 percent true @.@

[TheLoneKnight]

I've only got three hopes for DoW2, at the moment:

#1: Tyranids. GIMME MA GAUNTS!
#2: Battlewagon. I'm sick and tired of the cruddy Ork vehicles in DoW - I wanna play around with the awesomely kustomizable epitome of Ork vehicular warfare. Bonus points if you can upgrade it into a Battle Fortress (should uber units still be in the game)
#3: No Khorne! Not that I don't love the guy, but every farking Warhammer fantasy/40k game has senselessly abused Khornate worshippers and it's really starting to tick me off. Any god is good, although there's a special place in my heart for the developer who gives me Daemonettes.

That's it, really. If any two of those three come true I'll be perfectly content with preordering this baby at the first opportunity. I'm already digging on the six customisable squad limit for Space Marine and the glorious new Warboss; give me an excuse to love it more, Relic.

[s33k]

I read that article, I can't wait, I wish I could get the magazine and check the rest out.
That's awesome that SM and Orkz are in it, I'm just hoping and praying that my Imperial Guard makes it in, if not as a race, at least make an appearance in it somewhere. I can't wait. :D

[hivetyrant765]

i want to see chaos with the choice to choose your patron, or just go undivided.

[holyknight]

Me wantie chaos :)
and am so glad to hear that DOW2 is coming! My friends will be pleeeeaaase :), they were dissappointed with Soulstorm

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

I've just seen the screens.

Those who were saying it looks like the DoW intro minus some polygons were pretty much dead-on. It looks a bit grittier, although it still retains a plasticy-model look (so much so that when looking at the first screen, the improved graphics made me scratch my head for a bit trying to work out whether the orks in the foreground were rendered or photos of painted TT models. They were rendered). My avatar looks positively cartoony in comparison.

Anyway, the bit I'm sure you've all been waiting for....







Womble Marines. Oh yes.

[Steel*Faith]

Womble Marines? (Edit: NvM TT term. that's why I didn't understand).

Anyhow is the video on youtube "Warhammer 40k Fight Sequence Test" DoW2? Can someone confirm this who has seen the screenshots?

It's a FC vs. Warboss.

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

Since you only see flashes it's a little hard to tell, but I think so, yes.

[fneep]

Agreed. The battle shots look like CoH but with a lot more colour (it suits warhammer well) and the individual character renders look good but they have a weird 'glossy' feel to them. But it really looks great from all departments...

Good to see the beaked marines in and plenty of blood. And sync kills. I'm ready for it. :)

[Shaitan]

It definately looks good, I guess we'll have to wait and see more details as to exactly how enhanced the graphics are compared to CoH (since it is Essence 2.0). The units look almost prerendered, it's pretty much awesome. I'm looking forward to seeing more of it. I hope the American PC Gamer releases something about it soon as well.

[Steel*Faith]

This is going to be MASSIVELY EPIC then!

I really want to see Marines deployed behind cover (wall, in building ect) fending off hordes of Orks! Just like the cinematic, but finally playable and in game!

[widowson]

Boss! its da burna boyz! Dey iz rebellin'!!! Dem Footstompaz iz too boss! weze need moreh boyz!

6 squads sounds ridiculous. I'm guessing its more likely 6 PERSISTANT squads.

Oi, but a' proper Ork squad, fluffie-wise, could have 30 boyz innit.

Datz like...a.hunner..hundre..hurend...a bunch a ladz!

[ChaosReigns]

Hmmm...I would really like to see just one race per exapansion, the hope being that Relic will be able to focus all of their efforts on just that one race. Maybe then we can see different cults of Chaos.

I'm also wondering if the new Chaos Daemons faction (released this May) is going to be included.

[{OGS}Sirius]

From what i read, there will be no buildings T-T am i reading right i hope not. Because it is saying all you get is six sqauds :O and i'm thinking six sqauds ok does that mean we will get no buildings. plz don't tell me they are taking out structures.

[Weavern]

Let me make this crystal clear. If people keep posting how to find scans, they will be suspended, and possibly banned. This is no different then telling users how to find a warezed version of a game in the eyes of the rules.

It ends now.

Retroactive punishments for repeat offenders will be considered.

[Demonhorde]

Owwwiee... Yea im psyched! Alot of good stuff, no base building is a step i didnt think they go but cool non the less, wonder how they will make reinforcements work.

And about races, shit i be happy with only SM and Orks! :) and im a Chaos player dammit. OFC nids would be cool, but it might be understandable that they rethink it so many blizzard fanboys will just scream zerg.

[{OGS}Sirius]

I guess i'm not really worried about the buildings but the tech priest. With no buildings what roll will the techpriest play. T-T i love those guys.

>.>man plz don't let it be like wic. IF it just for campaign yeah that be great, that will make campaign go allooot faster. Though for multiplayer @.@ pllz to god don't get rid of the buildings.

[widowson]

I've only got three hopes for DoW2, at the moment:

#1: Tyranids. GIMME MA GAUNTS!
#2: Battlewagon. I'm sick and tired of the cruddy Ork vehicles in DoW - I wanna play around with the awesomely kustomizable epitome of Ork vehicular warfare. Bonus points if you can upgrade it into a Battle Fortress (should uber units still be in the game)
#3: No Khorne! Not that I don't love the guy, but every farking Warhammer fantasy/40k game has senselessly abused Khornate worshippers and it's really starting to tick me off. Any god is good, although there's a special place in my heart for the developer who gives me Daemonettes.

That's it, really. If any two of those three come true I'll be perfectly content with preordering this baby at the first opportunity. I'm already digging on the six customisable squad limit for Space Marine and the glorious new Warboss; give me an excuse to love it more, Relic.

1: I think 'nids are a given.
2: Sounds cool
3: Sorry, big dudes with spikey axes, FTW.

For the other two races, I'd bet 'nids and chaos with a tech tree for all 4 chaos paths....or space poofs...er....eldar...

[Croaxleigh]

I'm with you, Sirius. Hopefully it's just in the campaign, but even then I hope it's more like the original DoW campaign in which you get more stuff unlocked as you go along. The building issue is one of the points I'm watching for in order to help determine whether I'll be interested in getting the game or not... I don't buy many games, and DoW2 could honestly go either way with me.

[Shaitan]

There's no reason (I think) to think buildings are gone. I think they'll still be there in the capacity that CoH had it. I'm not sure how they would handle multiplayer without some minimal base building. Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough though.

[Cleve]

Wow, that Warhammer 40k Fight Sequence screams DoW 2 with the "new dawn" at the end and all.

Someone posted it a couple pages back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8mmv44doIo&feature=RecentlyWatched&page=1&t=t&f=b

[Mardhyn]

Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough though.

I think thats one of the many things that fans suffer from. Everyone is going on about how only 6 squads(assuming that you can only field 6 squads at a time, which I doubt but we will see), no base building , and no Eldar/IG/Nids(insert favorite race) would totally ruin the DoW franchise. And I feel that is short sighted, Relic can easily do any of those and pull it off well(iirc they were the first to really mainstream squad combat) without hurting its roots to extensively. Alls it takes is a little imagination. :p


Wow, that Warhammer 40k Fight Sequence screams DoW 2 with the "new dawn" at the end and all.

Assuming the new screenshots show DoW in a gritty more Warhammer Fantasty Gothic look its a nice teaser. That said, if it is a teaser for DoW2, how did this person get a hold of it and why wasn't it released to the fans officially. :-\

[NeoHunter]

Well, it would be nice if Relic could do something like what was done in the Command & Conquer series.

Start off the mission with an objective and a handful of units to accomplish that objective. No base building. My friends and I used to nickname these missions as "lone ranger" misisons basically because you only had what was given to you at the start of the mission. May not be appropriate but yet. Unless someone can come up with a better name for these type of missions.

I was playing Warhammer 40,000 Squad Command on the PSP and it contained missions of this type. Suddenly, you feel like that single Scout or Space Marine is extremely precious or that covers are vital to the success of your mission.

I would want DoW2 to have missions like this.

[Kaldaris]

I find it highly unlikely that the "Warhammer40k fight sequence test video" is from/for DoW 2. This would be rather incompetent for a Studio to have a leaked video of a high profile project land on youtube.

Unless of course the guys are totally cool with releasing early footage...but that's rather unheard of...

[Weavern]

Kladaris i wager its a teaser vid to build hype. I mean it really shows nothing. You have to watch it frame by frame to really see anything except the force commander's hammer.

[TheLoneKnight]

Wait, no buildings in DoW2?

Actually, that sounds kind of cool. Imagine; everything you've got (for space marines at least) getting airlifted in from a ship in orbit. Everything via drop pods and no bases to defend aside from hte vital points you've been ordered to hold. It's like the tabletop in realtime.

The question is how other factions would deal with such a thing. Would Orks grow out of the ground in a creepy/semi-canonical way? Would Ork vehicles be dropped in by clunky aircraft? That could be fairly cool, I suppose.

I'm really not seeing much of a downside to any of these rumoured/confirmed changes. All they seem to be doing is removing the standard RTS nonsense and dragging Warhammer 40,000 ever closer to its roots.

[Kaldaris]

Well you can see a blood raven emblem on the shoulder pad of a dead Space Marine near the end. I still remain skeptical about the authenticity of the video though.

[zuma]

could be an effort by marketers to get people to start asking questions and build the hype train

[Volomon]

Damn I remember starting up Dawn of War for the first time, I can't even remember why I particularly bought the game other than the Relic logo. Man oh man that intro was one hell of a treat. I hope we see something similar for number two.

[Croaxleigh]

I've got Squad Command for the DS, and it's a great game. It's not what I'd want in Dawn of War 2, though.

[Lord_Avatar]

I've got just one word for you - Chaos. Chaos simply has to be included. It is THE enemy for THE Imperium. And if we get SM, we need to have the traitors. Although it would be damn awesome, I doubt we'll see distinct legions ingame. Maybe players will be given a choice in the tech tree wheter to 'go' Tzeentch, Khorne etc. It would be totally unfluffy though if the Thousand Sons switched their allegiance to Nurgle...

My bet is: SM, Ork, Chaos and Tyrranid

Still... I hope Eldar will follow ASAP.

[Shuma]

It would be a good marketing move to wait 'till an expansion to add IG and the 'nids though...

[Cheesenium]

Sweet.That makes me forget about all the shit in SS.

Cant wait for DoW 2 with real SMs.

[cookie_magic]

yay at DoW 2

hopefully this and SC2 won't clash as much.

[simmo]

WOOT :jig:

[Demonhorde]

Well the best possible layup would most likley be SM, Nidz, Orkz and maybe expansion Chaos (since they would be the ultimate badguy in a expansion, when maybe nidz or orkz would be the badguy in the vanilla version). All these are a completly diffrent faction. And all have goals that dont overlap. Just my 5 cents.

I know this leaves out guard and eldars that many players like but adding them would also be adding allied and semi-allied picks making story much more difficult.

[Frankie7508]

In one of the magazine screen shots there is some barbed wire/tank trap type thing, similar to that in CoH. This would imply there is SOME form of building, be it unit producing structures or not.

[jackanapes1]

Well the best possible layup would most likley be SM, Nidz, Orkz and maybe expansion Chaos (since they would be the ultimate badguy in a expansion, when maybe nidz or orkz would be the badguy in the vanilla version). All these are a completly diffrent faction. And all have goals that dont overlap. Just my 5 cents.

I know this leaves out guard and eldars that many players like but adding them would also be adding allied and semi-allied picks making story much more difficult.

A biased post if ever I saw one. Theres a reason Chaos has always been one of the starting races, or opponents, in every single WH40k computer game made so far. Orkz and Nids are both situational at best.

[FifteenHours]

While I agree that no bases certainly speeds up the combat factor, it makes the concept of MP and skirmish matches seem more like a quick little round of CS or something.....rush in with your guys, kill the enemy, end of story. Seems to kill the 'epic' nature of 40k IMHO. However I honestly can't see Relic completely trashing the base building concept all together....perhaps stripping it down to speed things up a tad, but not out and out killing it.

Also as far as the 6 squad limit, I suspect that may be SM only. I mean let's just compare that idea to DoW. In DoW an SM squad is 2 pop cap (IIRC...been a while since I played as SM :-P), which out of a pop max of 20 is 10 squads....IF you build NOTHING else. Now let's say they were a little more valuable....and were worth 3 pop cap a piece....you can only fit 6 squads then (18/20)....so that doesn't seem like such a crazy concept.

However when you apply the 6 squad limit to other races, such as Orks, things become a bit unwieldy. Yes it's true that a mob of 30 orks a piece with 6 squads still seems quite Orky, however it means making use of a massive blob of troops that act as one unit....bigger isn't always better. Yes you'd have a lot of troops, but they'd be extremely unwieldy in combat. They'd have to implement pathing to allow 30 orks in one squad to somehow line up in firing formations....and also the idea of 30 orks getting into CC from one squad with one squad of SM seems crazy. Seems to me like you'd have Orks lining up behind their comrades waiting for their turn to get into CC.....

Overall making extremely large squads to fit the 6 squad limitations really starts to botch up the pathfinding and combat effectiveness of the squad when they become massive. It'd be much better to have smaller squads, but more of them, to allow players better options of maneuvering.

Of course once again, this is all just preview information that doesn't really explain everything in great enough detail to understand how things will turn out 100%....we'll just have to wait and see for more info. I'm just chiming in with my thoughts on the current prospects.

[Tadatsune]

Yay for Orks!

Only, the six squad thing sounds sucky.

[Rednova88]

Indeed it does, I'm skeptical of it myself, since it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to be limited like that for many of the races that rely heavily on sheer numbers to win. However as stated earlier we do not know the size of each squad itself. For space marines this is no issue since for them it's always quality>quantity!

As for the whole races debate, I can honestly see Tyranids coming, in a somewhat identical way to how the Necrons appeared in the series, only A LOT more of them. It's hard to say who will actually be in the game though, I can't dream of a 40k game without SOME form of Chaos though.

I also like the idea of having to take care of your commander, I never did like how one could just send their commander units in and have them get slaughtered, only to have them reappear 30 seconds later. As for the game play itself, for some reason this possibility of no base building forces me to think of Ground Control. Perhaps in the campaign we will be forced to choose our initial forces wisely, and then use them correctly or fail in a puddle of our own blood.

[Imperial Dane]

Well i wonder when THQ and Relic are going to announce it since the secret is out now.. I want screenshots damnit !

[eltroubabadour]

I know that a lot of ppl complain about 6 squads but for me it is fine
In DoW how many squads do you really control ? i am tired of drag selection take all your units, click attack-move to ennemy base so if 6 squads bring a little of thinking in the game it cant be that bad

[Imperial Dane]

Look we don't know much about the 6 squads bit so it is a bit too early to tell.

[Calax]

we all realize that the IG will appear if not as a race then as a subfaction for the SM at least initially.

[Croaxleigh]

That seems to be a bit odd of an assumption... what makes you think they'd appear as a subfaction?

[Imperial Dane]

and a rather unlikely one at that, IG as a Space marine sub faction ? That is not gonna happen.

[Shuma]

Never Ever. it's more likely that they will be introduced in a Exp with the 'Crons or the 'nids if the 'nids don't appear in Vanilla DoW 2.

[neucromaner]

6 squads limits is so standard.
why they do not do more QS instead. like no caps. like good old days.
i am going to buy that mag and look at the pics for me self.
shit. i hate it when every expansion or version is a nerf.

[I'm Brandon]

I'm really hoping to see Tyranids make an appearance, I would also like to see the veteran system follow fluff, when a space marine earns veteran status he gets a white helmet, orks paint their faces blue and so on. And I would love to see chaos be represented much closer to how they actually are, even if they don't get their seperate gods. For my final request, please make this one much more grim.

[Switchking]

I'm really hoping to see Tyranids make an appearance, I would also like to see the veteran system follow fluff, when a space marine earns veteran status he gets a white helmet, orks paint their faces blue and so on. And I would love to see chaos be represented much closer to how they actually are, even if they don't get their seperate gods. For my final request, please make this one much more grim.

6 squad tyranid army?? Oh come on!!I would rather see a 6 squad necron raiders....

[Shuma]

Come on Switch, we don't even know what this 6 squad thing means. It could be just for SM. Or it could be Campaing stuff.

[Exsus]

Wake me up when it's out i don't want to wait.
Will Gabriel be back? Can we can a resolution to the end of DoW?

[Energizer Bunny]

Starting races
Space Marines
Chaos
Orks
Tyranids

Campaigns
SM - Campaign in which the other races will be encountered, but the overall battle and story focus will be with Chaos

Orks - Campaign in which the other races will be encountered but the overall battle and story focus will be on the Nids

Reasoning
SM and Chaos are always (and particularly here) presented as a near mirror image of one another. Relic has an established backstory for the Blood Ravens and the Word Bearers, which they got half way through in DoW and then left. The idea of them not going back to this is highly unlikely in my view.

That's completely seperate from the face that if you're making SM as a race, a lot of your work for Chaos is done at the same time. Many Chaos units (even fluff wise) are simplu SM units made over by Goths. Think CSM, Chaos Pred, Chaos Rhino etc etc. It makes sense to do them at the same time

Re: the orks, a little more flimsy here. However, whilst I'm no fluff expert (maybe one can correct me if I'm wrong) but weren't the orks supposed to have been genetically engineered to stop the Tyranids? Didn't some old race of super being basically design the orks to stop the Nids taking over the galaxy? On that basis, I could see a campaign with the Orks fighting the Nids being highly workable.


Anybody want to challenge my logic?

[Exsus]

Ork have nothing to do with Tyranids. Ork were created to combat the necrons. Tyranids just suddenly appeared one day.

[BrotherPetrus]

Actually Orks were designed to fight necrons :) and so were eldar. I agree with SM vs Chaos part, however i think they will go with eldar as the fourth race to mirror the races from the original DoW and because eldar would nicely complement the selection as a fast but fragile army. Tyrranids IMO will be a either a fifth race (i think unlikely) or just make small appearance and be fully represented in the first expansion, perhaps with imperial guard as they would make a nice pairing storytelling wise. Everybody want to see Tyranids but they really deserve their own story and that will simply not fit in the Blood Ravens vs chaos part that (in my opinion) will be the main focus of DoW2 campaign. Just my 2 cents ;)

[neucromaner]

if relic only pushing a few races at a time, and let said that dow2 is out in 2009. then to reach present state of 9 races. We have to wait up to 2013 to have 9 races. This is unacceptable. We want 10 races for DOW2 right from the start. we cannot wait so long. But then again, we have no choice, do we.
i hope to get the magazine tonight and use a magnifying glass and scan everywhere, maybe buggo hide a nids cloak recce unit somewhere.

[Shuma]

Talk for yourself, i don't whant 9 fucking races if the game is not balanced.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Bringing Orks as a starting race isn't really a clever move from Relic.
You just have to check the ladders! Orks were by far the least popular race in vanilla DOW, in WA, in DC and in SS.

There have to be really some die hard Ork fans in the ranks of the Relic team, since that decision certainly didn't have anything to do with an intelligent analysis of the market situation.

[Fuzzle]

oof, all these assumptions being made are kinda depressing. I think a lot of you guys are assuming too much that it will be "like regular DoW", except with the changes listed.

The squad thing alone makes me believe that they're building a completely new game and not an extension of DoW1. That's why I think it's goofy to draw paralells with things such as relic units, amount of races at release/post, race balance, let alone specifics such as the amount of units a squad consists of.

[hybris]

My theory and reasoning on the races
Starting races
Space Marines
Chaos
Orks
Tyranids
There won't be three Disorder races and just one Order race.

Relic are gonna even out the amount of "good" and "evil" races, so my bet is SM and Eldar as the obligatory Order-races, and Orks is granted one of the Disorder slots, so the question remains if Chaos or Tyranids gets the last slot.

[Rafta]

Well, I hope Relic drops the cartoony feel of DoW 1 but I did see some screens and it still looks like the SM wear clown shoes.
Why don't they use realistic proportions, those hero scaled models adapted from the minis are looking like crap.

[Shuma]

Tyranids are fucked once again. With Orks in the game what's the chance of Tyranids making it as a playable race?

The ONLY hope, is that Chaos is not playable and only appears in the campaing, wich makes no sense.

Chaos>'nids.

But then again... why would Relic do this? it is a good marketing move but such a slap in the face to all the long standing fans?

[Terrordar]

Because guess what Shuma?

Nids aren't NEARLY as popular as the tiny minority here is making them out to be.

Speak to a mainstream 40k player. Necrons are often seen more favorably, especially fluff wise. I've played 40k for 13 years, literally over half my life. You also forget that they aren't humanoids. And most of the races they have so far are, gasp, humanoids! :O!

The odds of them NOT having Chaos, which is arguably the third most popular race in the entire genre, is nonsense. Hope for a six race start.

[Kalimac]

Wait, is Chaos the third most popular army? I always thought they were second only to the Space Marines?

Anyway, with Orks already in the game, I would rather see both Eldar or Chaos over Tyranids.

[Vrugar Gutslice]

Note; there are no bloody good races in Warhammer 40K (except maybe the Tau... and that's pushing it).

Space Marines are as a whole not good from an exterior perspective. From the Imperiums they are, but from an outsiders no. They're special forces of a hugley oppressive Theocratic empire. So stop calling them the good guys!

And about Orks being unpopular do you think quite possibly it might have something to do with the fact they got screwed with their stupid Orky Resource where all other races had nothing like it.

Anyway about Orks I think this would be a good troops list for them.

Orkz:



HQ:

Warboss (with Nobz or Meganobz Retinue 5-10, Mekboyz 1-2 and Mad Doks/Painboyz 1-2) (Can be mounted on bikes, can’t take Mega armour, Meks or Doks)



Big Mek (with Mekboyz Retinue 3-5)



Weirdboy (with Minderz 2-5 Nobz)





Elites:

Nobz 3-10 May be mounted on bikes, May have a painboy with them.



Meganobz: 3-10



Burna Boyz: 5-15, 3 may be Mekboyz



Tankbustas 5-15, has a Nob, Can have 3 bomb Squigs with them



Kommandos: 5-15 Kommandos, has a Nob, 2 Special weapon choices, Tankbusta Bombs, (Maybe the Burna bomb from DoW?)



Flash Gitz: (Counted as Heavy Support in new Codex, think they should be kept as Elite choices). 5-10 Flashgitz, one can be a painboy.



Troops:

Slugga Boyz: 10-30 one may be a Nob, 3! Weapon Choices regardless of Mob size, keep Burnas!



Shoota Boyz: Same as above but shootier.



‘Ard Boyz: An upgrade to either a Slugga or Shoota Boy Mob 1 per army (in standard conditions)



Gretchin Squad: 10-30 Grots & 1-3 Runtherds (Slaverz). Mine Clearing, used as cover by other orks!, used a traction by orks in difficult terrain!



Transport:

Wartrukk, Proper open topped, carries 12 boyz, (mega armour takes 2 slots a piece) Have a driver and shoota!





Fast Attack:



Stormboyz: 5-20, has a Nob.



Warbuggies: 1-3, has driver and shoota can be upgraded to wartrakks; TW Big Shootas, Rokkit Luanchas, Kustom Mega Blastas or Skorcha. Skorcha must be Wartrakk.



Warbikers: 3-12, one may be a Nob



Deffkoptas: 1-5





Heavy Support:

Lootas: 5-15, one may be a Mek; I’m going to suggest a bit of a Hybridization here. Armed with Bolters and looted armour 5+ save, 9 of them (excluding the Mek) may take from a selection of heavy weapons. Deffgun is always available and the rest is a selection (Random) of looted imperium weapons. (Heavy Bolter, Lascannon, Plasma Cannon, Missile Launcher, Autocannon and Multimelta. Yes I know that’s a lot of Heavy Weapon Choices but no more then an IG Heavy Weapons Platoon and Orks are worse shots then the IG anyway.



Big Gunz: 1-3 Big Gunz with Grot crew and Mek/Runtherd.



` Guntrukk: 1-3 Trukks with Big Gunz; Not a fast vechile, still open topped, may or may not have Grot crew (Grots are better shots)



Killa Kans: 1-3 Kans (Crew should not be Grots no matter what the current codex says!)



Deff Dread: A proper one this time.



Looted Wagon: Ork Tank and/or Transport cobbled together from cannibalised imperial vehicles. Open Topped



Battlewagon: Ork Tank and Transport, Open Topped sometimes have Deff Rollas



Looted Vehicle: No longer normal codex (Though can use them in Apocalypse) Should have them to help fill gaps in Ork Forces (as Orks lack any sturdy attack vehicles (I’m not counting walkers, most Ork Tanks are open topped and have transport capacity)



Relic unit: If they still have them.



My suggestions would be Gargantuan Squiggoth and/or Battle Fortress.

[Energizer Bunny]

Balls. Apologies. I got mixed up with whether Orks were supposed to fight Nids or Necs.

I could still see a campaign in which you played as the Orks with the Nids having shown up at one of their planets.


There won't be three Disorder races and just one Order race.

Things is, would Orks have to count as a disorder race? I know they fight pretty much everthing, but they aren't a race I've ever really thought of as inherently evil. They just want to fight a lot. If there were a campaign of Orks v Nids or Chaos, I'd be pretty confident Orks would be portrayed as the good guys.

[Terrordar]

Wait, is Chaos the third most popular army? I always thought they were second only to the Space Marines?

Anyway, with Orks already in the game, I would rather see both Eldar or Chaos over Tyranids.

Chaos Space Marines are probably in third, perhaps second, but Imperial Guard have grown hella in numbers since Cadians were released on a large plastic scale.

[Zounas]

My guess on the races are following. First in the campaign orks and SM are fighting each other and suddenly nids appear from somewhere to challenge both SM and orks. Nids wouldn't have their own campaign but would be playable in MP. Similar kind of approach was used in C&C3 (scrin=nids). IG or Eldar might appear as a cameo. Furthermore i really don't understand why there should be equal amount of good and evil races. Actually i don't think orks as good or evil race but just as a different race with different motives.

Edit: Just noticed someone already posted about the good and bad races thing as i was writing this :D

I don't know if i would want them to include bases or not but you guys should watch this review video of a nice COH mod without base building. Its a really long video but i think it shows that there can still be really nice and strategic battles even without base building. Every unit counts so you really have to pay attention to them. (This is all of course speculation as we have no idea if there will be base building.)

Link: Europe in ruins Review (http://www.moddb.com/mods/8627/europe-in-ruins/reviews/26912/europe-in-ruins-review)

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Wait, is Chaos the third most popular army? I always thought they were second only to the Space Marines?
Chaos are clear second after SM both in the DOW ladder rankings and in the table top rankings (german T3 for reference).

Third place is usually shared by Eldar / Nids / IG / Necrons depending on where you're looking.



And about Orks being unpopular do you think quite possibly it might have something to do with the fact they got screwed with their stupid Orky Resource where all other races had nothing like it.
No! I know their table top ranking too, and there they aren't very popular either (again according to T3).

[the_voice]

@ArkhanTheBlack

I would agree with you if there were only SM and Orks as starting race,
but obviously it is not the case. Then it would make sense to make
SM and Orks fight each other all the way during campain, except if
we discover that Orks make a massive technology breakthrough with
their first super Ork-Psyker that is in fact the reincarnation of a
SM primarch XD.

But the reality is that there will be more. Choosing SM and Orks from the
starts isn't a flaw in term of marketing, it is the opposite in fact. Check this
out: SM is the most popular and the most played race, so it is obvious that they
were needed to be included. There is no surprise in that perspective but because
poeple recognize them, the challenge is too make them look good.. What am I saying here...
Make them look Awesome! to challenge players, journalist, and the whole gaming industry to
say "look what you will be able do with them, and this is only the beginning".

Now with Orks, it isn't the most played races but, often it the races that obtain
the best win ratio. Because like IG, we can expect that those player who play Orks are
really fan of this race. Plus Ork offer a totally different gameplay. On top on that,
and what make really a difference it is the culture: Orks have their own culture like SM, IG,
or Inquistion follows the Emporor of men. And Ork player know that, and this is what they like
in them. They are at the opposite of what you should expect from an army of years 40000:
they fight against everyone. They do not follow a icon like zealots, they don't kill because
they are corrupted, they don't praise for the greater (BS) good: they just like War(ggghhhhh!),
with a big W. Ork are brute force, with pimped and relooked vehicules. And just check their
quotes "this is my warttruck, pretty nice, huh!".

Man, personally, I am not a big fan of Orks, but I fully do understand why they were included and revealed
from the beginning for DOW2. SM and Orks are both two different culture, we knows a lot about them since DOW,
now they are two really well balanced races, and everybody like their design.

Marketing wise, it will be obvious that DOW2 will be compared to SC2 (I like both DOW and SC, so no discrimination here).
SC2 look really nice, but suffer from one thing: there is no new races and the game design looks almost the same as SC1.
But they are pushing the SC concept.
What Relic/THQ should do in this case? Well just do better and add more stuff. Basically we are starting with
what you knows the best, but just look what happened to them.

And this is only the beginning... Which is sort of matching to the end of what SC2 is going to offer.

See?

Now, just pray they will learn from the DOW to SS experience like campain with real storyline
(were alternate path is not incompatible), online gaming must be the n°1 priority, but then it is not enough,
online experience must bring something new, something unseen in RTS/MMO, patching policies. I think, with what
we have seen with CoH is a excellent starting point.

Peace

[Iwasfrozen]

I suspect that guard won't make it in... I imagine Relic were probably sick of normal humans after CoH and OF.
I love the Imperial Guard, so I'll be a bit dissapointed if they don't get in.
However I also love Chaos so I'll buy the game anyway :)

P.S I hope Base Building is included, it's one of those nice little fetures when you look at your baseand see the characteristics of your race in front of you.
It's one of those little things that sets DOW apart from other games. :beer:

[Terrordar]

No! I know their table top ranking too, and there they aren't very popular either (again according to T3).

Orks are actually popular, just not played. They have a loyal fanbase, and most other players LOVE Orks. They just don't PLAY Orks. :D

[werewolf]

One word......expansions. I guess that DOW 2 will have 2-4 expansions. in every one 1-2 races. Keeping us happy untill DOW 3............ in 2013

[neucromaner]

Talk for yourself, i don't whant 9 fucking races if the game is not balanced.
what made you think that if there is less race , it is more balance? what about 1 race then, that is balance.

no i want many many races, balance is relative. various from person to person.

i want 10 races.

[neucromaner]

removed

thanks, but i do not see any improvement in graphics in dow2.

look at ps3, more graphics does not mean better gameplay.

the only reason i see they use new engine, because by that,they can add nids. that all i care.

i have a feeling that after dow2, people still playing SS.
that is if they only have a few same old races.

same old races, only graphic improvement, nerf squads = SS still going strong.

[Scinadier]

hopefully it supports real air units also

[Imperial Dane]

@Neucromancer: I'd say that is a pretty shallow look at it all without much thought to it, hell there is a graphical improvement from DoW, there will be Squad ai and tons of other features. So it won't just be "the same old races from DoW "

[Fuzzle]

same old races, only graphic improvement, nerf squads = SS still going strong.

Where does it say that DoW2 is exactly like DoW1 only with less squads?

[Grabnutz]

As stated in the original post STOP linking to scanned images, and STOP asking for how to find them, copyright infringment is a no-no on these forums.

[neucromaner]

hopefully it supports real air units also

the translation clearly state that there will be no air units


@Neucromancer: I'd say that is a pretty shallow look at it all without much thought to it, hell there is a graphical improvement from DoW, there will be Squad ai and tons of other features. So it won't just be "the same old races from DoW "

from the picture, i can see that it is towards COH type of realism.
i have to admit that the background is a mark improvement.
but the unit still look same.
i have to admit dow unit look great even though it is 2004 game.

no doubt, a lot of people who play dow will not be able to play it on their laptop. he he he. that is great.

the Flamer and jetpack flame look better, that is for sure.

[Sephiroth]

WAIT A SECOND!

How can there be Chaos AND Tyranids AND Orks if there are 4 races?? There must be an equilibration of Good & Evil!

Relic made it like that in each title of the franchise. So you can pretty much forget about Chaos. There's no way they give up on Tyranids after all the hype around them all these years...

Chaos is for an expansion people. They're too big for a race that can split into 4 sub-factions, so the amount of content provided will put the other races to shame.

[neucromaner]

Where does it say that DoW2 is exactly like DoW1 only with less squads?

RTS is a RTS
what else can it be
you build building, buildings build troops and vehicles and you kill each other.
:cylon:

of course DOW2 would be similar in DOW1 except in graphics.

it is a proven formula, why change it?

less squad means less squad. what else can it be?
just like when they limits tanks to two, to make game more tactical. limits squads is to prevent people from massing tac and FW and killing anything that get nears it.

[AzK]

makes no sense to make a sequel to a franchise like dow and all its expansions and then leave more than half of the races behind. if you do that, you may aswell call the game something else instead of dow 2.. (considering also the gameplay isn't going to be the same it seems?)

i would be greatly disappointed if the game didn't come out of the box with the 9 races it currently has. they can put nids or whatever as 10th (i don't really care about them tho)

what about all the people who play ig/nec/tau/de/sob only or as main race?

[Fuzzle]

RTS is a RTS
what else can it be
you build building, buildings build troops and vehicles and you kill each other.

I do not see any sign of base building in DoW2 so far. There are several RTS games out there with no base building that focus on squad synergies. Shattered Galaxy and Worldshift are a couple that come to mind.

[Grabnutz]

@neucromaner
If every other RTS on the market was like DoW1 then i'd agree with you.. however they're not, DoW and CoH are completely different games, you are far oversimplifying RTSes as a whole.

[Scinadier]

I honestly think DoW 2, with accompanying expansions, should be set up codex style. Each expansion, or codex, should be a core-game in itself where there's a campaign and the availability to play as one race. Of course, the expansions can play with eachother, kind of like how the original CoH can play with OF.

For example the first available Dow:2 game, or codex, should be the starter set, "Battle for Maccrage." The Battle for Maccrage should be considered THE game of DoW2, (it would be the first to be released). It should come with Tyranids, Space Marines, and of course the Battle for Maccrage campaign. Additionally both Tyranid and Space Marines are allowed to play online if you buy this game set.

But if you have no interest in playing as the SM or nids, one should simply have the option to buy a 'codex' that comes with one race and an accompanying campaign.

This can be used further if individual chapters or regiments are involved. For example when buying Dow 2: The Battle for Maccrage, you get the Tyranids and Ultramarines. Another example would be if one buys the Cadian or Tallarhn codex (expansion).

The core game should obviously cost as much as any other newly released game, but the codexs should cost half that.

[Grabnutz]

expansions don't work the same as codexes though do they.

I like Tau, so i'd buy their expansion, someone else has got Necrons. I can't fight against them, since I don't have the necron expansion, thus don't have any of its content. With a TT codex, you don't need your opponants models / rules, just your own, in a computer game, you do.

[AzK]

err that's not really the case, a person who only got ss for instance can play sob de only, but can face sm/tau/nec/whatever in mp.

not really different fomr the codex system mentioned

[Scinadier]

Of course, the expansions can play with eachother, kind of like how the original CoH can play with OF.
by "the expansions" i meant the codex expansions.


I like Tau, so i'd buy their expansion, someone else has got Necrons. I can't fight against them, since I don't have the necron expansion, thus don't have any of its content.
Relic has found a way, given the CoH and OF example.

Patching is needed yes. Patching is needed to allow different codexes to accept the new models etc. But I think the patching would be worth it.

Sorry if I'm unclear.

[neucromaner]

i dun play coh online, just single player, coh feels like dow in many ways.
i would class them the same rts class.

essense engine, that means dx10

i was trying to stay away from vista. looks like to get the best graphics, i have to move on..... sobs. i hate it. but i will do it for dow2. vista ultimate 64 bits.

dow2 for me only one purpose NIDS.
old engine cannot have tree that nids can eat to generate resources.
so, essense engine will make nids possible
basically i only care for dow2 if there is nids

if i have same old races in dow2. it is just blink blink for the eyes, nice shadows, nice background, the game play is still same. if they change it too much, they are going to lose a lot of fans here.

online estimate DC and SS user, probably 2 in 5 people have no computer that can run DOW2 because of essense and dx10

(by looking at how long people take to load a multiplayer game)

then lets see, if dow2 have less race, 2 in 5 people will not buy it because their favourite race not in it.

therefore only 1/5 people from SS/DC might buy DOW2. either they do not have the hardware to run it. Not happy with lack of races and nerf gameplay.

maybe DOW2 will not be the commerical sucess like COH.

[-_MU_-]

i would be greatly disappointed if the game didn't come out of the box with the 9 races it currently has.

Prepare for disappointment my friend. It would be a COLOSSAL task for Relic to make a new game with 9 races out of the box. Trust me, if they did it, I would be right next to you doing the happy dance, but i think you may be harboring some unrealistic expectations there. Balancing 4 races out of the box was hard enough the first time round and I wonder how much the lessons learned from Vanilla to SS will be of use here.

I am just so happy that it's confirmed and happening, I don't care if they make the first four races SM, Orks, Squats and Zoats - I'll play it and love it!

And yes, the screens are amazing, can't wait to see more Ork trampling dreads!

[Vrugar Gutslice]

WAIT A SECOND!

How can there be Chaos AND Tyranids AND Orks if there are 4 races?? There must be an equilibration of Good & Evil!

'Ow many bloody times will I 'ave ta repeat dis. Dere iz no good vs evil. If anyfing it's more like one flavour of evil against a different flavour of evil.

On the subject of a Chaos inclusion however, I think there's going to be three outcomes.

1: Half arsed Undiveded, with minimal support for god specific legions

2: Fully Arsed Undiveded, which would also help the foundations of the god specific legions. Unlikely in my opinion straight up as it would take alot of work.

3: Initial specific legion with others added in expansions eventually leading up to a fully fleshed out Chaos. This would probably be the easiest way to do it.

Using 3rd edition codex rules for God specific I would say that the Emperor's Children would be the best case scenario as they have their own distint style (appearance wise and fighting wise [Heavy use of sonic weapons]) and they don't lose too much versitility as the other god specific legions do.

[Imperial Dane]

@AZK: and you are aware of the fact that adding all 9 races in one go would be one hell of a job ? Making models for the whole bunch, balance and all that ? I mean you can't just transfer them, you need to do the work for all of them, plus there are new features to implement and such.
I mean it is an impossible task you are setting there.

And regarding Codex expansions.. not really going to work, they would get pretty old pretty fast, besides an expansion is a good way of adding a few new things without innovating everything, and just doing an expansion for each race one at a time wouldn't really do.


from the picture, i can see that it is towards COH type of realism.
i have to admit that the background is a mark improvement.
but the unit still look same.
i have to admit dow unit look great even though it is 2004 game.

You mean the models ? Well they are based on games workshops, so unless games workshop decides for a drastic redesign, it is not going to happen.
But if you mean a lack of model randomization, then i would agree with you, but again, it is still early and things might change.

[Grabnutz]

err that's not really the case, a person who only got ss for instance can play sob de only, but can face sm/tau/nec/whatever in mp.

not really different fomr the codex system mentioned

However in that case, each "codex" expansion would require all races to be fully modelled and coded in, thats a hell of alot of work, patching would then have to be done and tested for each single expansion, for every change they make etc. Witht he current system, one expansion adds onto another, the content from DC exists within SS, so its SS which gets the patch, DC can't play online using, or against the new content

[Iwasfrozen]

Relic made it like that in each title of the franchise. So you can pretty much forget about Chaos. There's no way they give up on Tyranids after all the hype around them all these years...

Chaos won't be left out, they are far more popular than 'nids (Despit the very loud but small community in this forum that tells you other wise.)

[Fuzzle]

if i have same old races in dow2. it is just blink blink for the eyes, nice shadows, nice background, the game play is still same. if they change it too much, they are going to lose a lot of fans here.

You are still assuming that the gameplay will be identical to DoW1; that it's only a graphical update. I feel you are being too narrow-minded when you say that all RTS games are identical except for the races and graphics.

[Grabnutz]

I'm expecting the same 4 we had for the original, Tyranids just aren't a "core" race, as much as i'd like to see them. If 'Nids were implemented in place of one of the first 4 races, you can garantee that instead of all the cries for 'Nids it would simply be replaced by cries for another popular race - eldar, marines, chaos and orks, I would guess, are far more popular, and would provide 4 distinct flavours of race and gameplay for the core DoW2 game.

[neucromaner]

i will be very surprise if dow2 have a chance in gameplay
the belgium reporter who went to canada saw a game with sm and orks
he did not mention any major change in gameplay
if there is a major change, he would have reported it , right.

i expect much the same. which is fine. i like.