Less cartoony?

[IndigoSpyder]

As a CoH player, I would say CoH appears realistic in terms of eye candy and is indeed not cartoony. I'm worried if DoW2 will look the same cartoony appearance in the first DoW, or will it be finally overhauled to make it look more...serious looking? Less cartoony perhaps?

Can anyone describe if they still look the same as almost recycled with the 1st Dow series compare to Dow2?

[Cadian_cameo]

you tell me
[img=http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1692/assaultjumprk2.th.jpg] (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=assaultjumprk2.jpg)
[img=http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/79/assaultbattleud4.th.jpg] (http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=assaultbattleud4.jpg)
[img=http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4406/1207349329555gf7.th.jpg] (http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1207349329555gf7.jpg)
I suppose you could qualify the unit design as somewhat cartoony, but for 40k I think this design works really well. We are talking about 7 foot super soldiers in power armor, and giant hulking muscular alien brutes. It might come off as being really silly if you gave it an ultra realistic design like in COH.

That's why I kinda liked the later artwork in Sin City. It got far more stylized, witch was more appropriate for Frank Millers qausi super human characters who could take half a dozen rounds from a .44 magnum and still stand.

[IndigoSpyder]

Finally! Now those Space Marines don't look like short, stocky fellows! :D

[Oom Gert]

I have to say I'm happy with the way DOW2 is going to look. I don't really have a problem with the "cartoony" look as long as it suits the theme of the game.

But after seeing the screens for DOW 2, I can see no other way this game should look.

DOW2 looks way less cartoony than StarCraft 2

[Elerium]

Starcraft 2 must be literally eating their own hats after seeing that!

[IndigoSpyder]

As long as you see short, stocky, final fantasy-type 3D art in an intense, gritty rts genre, it will still look cartoony and I'm glad from the looks of the screenies, they've been totaly revamped. :)

Meh, whatever, I'll still probably buy the damn game :p

[Weavern]

Elerium lets not try and plug blaitent fanboism into the mixture, k?

[Compel]

Only the second image has loaded yet.

First thing is, it looks really **** cool.

Second thing is... I think the orks skin is a little too 'glowy'.

[yellowdog]

Yer I was thinking the same thing when I saw the ork skin. Looks like they rolled about in baby oil before getting into combat..

The beltfed ammo on the heavy bolter looks a little too shiny as well (perhaps the SMs as well) - http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1207349329555gf7.jpg

Love the dead predator though.

[Compel]

The heavy bolter marine was what caught my eye the most, he looks like he was charging right out of a movie.

[Ice_JT]

It's only shiny because of the orbital bombardment me thinks, if so the abbilities and map lighting causing shadows will be soooooooooo Cool!

[yetanotherplayer]

In a similar vein, I really like the scorching visible on the upper part of the drop pod, around where the rocket fires.

[DoW2]

... I never thought DoW1, SC1 or SC2 were cartoon looking...

[cannonfodder]

SC2 shines in almost every colour of the 32bit palette, with lights being everywhere. It's a neon show. How is that not cartoony? Actually, DoW had less lights going on, but it was still a bit too colourful... in a 2v2 you can see big blue shining storms going against purple thingies with a bit of yellow lights thrown in (eldar magics with DE against say a priest), which results in a rather weird display of dancing lights.

SC1... now, that didn't feel too cartoony, I'll have to hand that. I really liked the art direction of it.

[Cadian_cameo]

Personally speaking, this looks far more visually pleasing than Star Craft 2.

[Kien]

... I never thought DoW1, SC1 or SC2 were cartoon looking...

I only thought SC2 was cartoony. :-/

[shiner980]

Starcraft had this gritty feel to it, and was only ever so slightly cartoony. Dawn of War has some grit to it, but some of the people's army paint styles were...yea cartoonish (my space marines...in HOT PINK!)

Now Starcraft 2 is cartoony due to how their units are designed (particularly the Terrans) and has lost its gritty feel from SC.

Dawn of War 2 is about the same as Dawn of War, and I'm doubtful I can really see it any other way, though they could tone down on the normal mapping, and if they could, just make it feel a bit more down to earth...just because WH40K seems like such a dark place, I'd expect it to be just a bit less...colorful

[Cadian_cameo]

I personally think that Blizzard has completely forgotten how to do grit. They spent to much time making cartoon video games with Warcraft 3, and WoW.

The only designs I really liked for Starcraft 2 are the Marines.

[Shuma]

Blizzard will fix the Cartoony look later on, the Art director said so himself, the game is still in Alpha state god damm it.

[Versian]

Finally! Now those Space Marines don't look like short, stocky fellows!

They didn't look Short or stocky IMO. Space Marines looked like kick-ass, hardcore supersoldiers that tower over regular humans. Maybe you're playing a normal resolution on a wide-screen?

On Topic:

Dawn of War 2 doesn't look cartoony, but it was quite strange to see the orks being so shiny. Dawn of War 1 itself doesn't look so cartoony. We just have to remember it's 8 foot tall supersoldiers, orks, elves, and 8 foot tall supersoldiers with spikes, running around shooting each other. Dawn of War sometimes looked surprisingly realistic sometimes to me.

[Shuma]

Maybe the Orks are just sweaty dirty bastards.

[Kien]

The plates on the marine's legs look like they are only 6 squares around, which is too few IMO. I would have to have 10 or somehting.



Dawn of War 2 is about the same as Dawn of War, and I'm doubtful I can really see it any other way, though they could tone down on the normal mapping, and if they could, just make it feel a bit more down to earth...just because WH40K seems like such a dark place, I'd expect it to be just a bit less...colorful

Don't you mean specular mapping? :?

[IndigoSpyder]

They didn't look Short or stocky IMO. Space Marines looked like kick-ass, hardcore supersoldiers that tower over regular humans. Maybe you're playing a normal resolution on a wide-screen?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/IndigoSpyder/SpaceMarines.jpg

Which of the two Space Marine looked like it came straight out of a Japanese anime?

[Dyntheos]

most likely using lots of DX10 trikee ninja stuff so it's gonna look a lot better. can't help but remember looking at hellgate london shots using DX10 when they showcased the graphics and they looked like they came from a different game from the the one that uses dx9

i think the anime comment is a bit harsh spyder. I'd choose niether.

[IndigoSpyder]

Which of them looks more cute then? :p

I'm not certain if less cartoony has something to do with Dx10, shaders, texture and fx stuffs, I would say it would be heavily base on how the 3D model was modelled upon. From my previous screenie, even if the Blood Raven skin was applied to the cute Ultramarine, he would still look cute and the same goes the other way if the cute Ultramarine skin is applied to the batlle-hardened Blood Raven, he would still look badass.

[Versian]

Well, Space Marines in DoW1 don't look nearly as badass as they do in DoW2. But I still don't see them looking cute. They're just... there. They looked badass in DoW1 but now that DoW2 has raised that standard, they don't look so badass anymore in DoW1.

[Dyntheos]

the paint is more scuffed in the dow2 shots ;)

[Noir]

Those Orks need to be less shiny, anymore and they'll start blinding out Marine eyes.

[roflmao]

Looks freaking amazing.

DoW1 deff had a cartoonish element in it, but it was managed so well that it became one of its biggest charms. This new version doesn't seem to have the same cartoonish-ness, but it looks so pretty.

[Versian]

The first time I saw the Orks in those screenshots I thought "Damn, they're shiny". Second time, I realized they're not so shiny.

Also, every game released from now on will be dull in comparison. Amount of fun while playing a game = how shiny units are.

[Noir]

Don't say that too loud, or they'll start releasing games with giant lensflares!

[FifteenHours]

I admit, the shininess of the units in some of the pictures is a little bit frightening....but I suspect that may just be because of the mass explosions and such. I just can't imagine Orks to have skin that looks so wet/metallic. Plus the shine on their guns is too much IMHO....Ork weapons are dirty, rusty, and crude....shiny suggests a fine polish on it.

[Heavenly King]

I think the look of the game, is well suited for its theme.
Alien brutes, supersoldiers, and alien mistics, couldn't do well otherwise.
DOW 2 should not be COH in Space

[Cheesenium]

It looks good the way it is now.Im happy with it.

[IVE'S]

What I'm hoping for? Realistic bloodspatter on unit models themselves. *drools*

And I suppose the Orks would be pretty sweaty little/big buggers.

[Avykins]

Of course its gonna be kinda cartooney. As everyone has said 7' super soldiers in bright red armour, massive green aliens, terminator clones etc. Its kinda expected. But I agree the Orks do need uglying up. Blood splatters, rust, dirt hell even a few broken teeth or the occasional missing eye would help.

[Kien]

Of course its gonna be kinda cartooney. As everyone has said 7' super soldiers in bright red armour, massive green aliens, terminator clones etc. Its kinda expected. But I agree the Orks do need uglying up. Blood splatters, rust, dirt hell even a few broken teeth or the occasional missing eye would help.

You're not talking about the textures?!?!?! :O

[Versian]

It's not so cartoony! At least not to the extent Blizzard takes their games

[LynX]

The first thing which caught my eye was the oh-so-shiny orks too... they really should reduce the spec-map levels, and maybe *just* a little for other metal things (armor/ammo belts) and it'd be all good.

Another small detail is the direction of the Assault Marine's jetpacks while in flight. The thrust points down but the flame points straight behind.

Nitpicks aside, the overall look is much, much more improved from DoW (duh). The SMs look suitably heroic now (unlike in DoW, as someone said earlier, looked like short, stocky fellows..), better-looking city areas and buildings (as opposed to seemingly randomly constructed ramps and mis-scaled buildings), better sense of scale (look at the destroyed Predator in one of the screens, and the scale of the Marines next to them) and the list goes on.

It looks anything BUT cartoony.
The models are definitely not directly recycled from the original, or if they were, they underwent some extensive overhauls so its moot.

[StickDeath]

"7 foot super soldiers in power armor"

GW changed the height of the SM, they are now 3 meters tall. Which would make them a little over 9 feet tall.

[akuma85]

I really like how dow2 looks right now, yep I agree orks are a little too shiny. Now, if we could only see them in video...

[Versian]

Another small detail is the direction of the Assault Marine's jetpacks while in flight.

I noticed other things about the Assault Marine. They still use their jet boosters while going downward. This means that the Marine himself would accelerate downward. Although it allows him to deal a massive blow to an enemy squadron it would also endanger the marine himself (cause if you pay attention, he isn't trying AT ALL to slow down).

Unless they are indeed so hardcore they can survive an accelerated thrust downwards. They are Space Marines after all.

[Shuma]

Thei're Spartans in space. Of course thei're hardcore.

[transf0rmer]

I think the game looks more realistic in terms of style when compared to DoW1.

I also think that the Space Marines in DoW might have looked "cartoony" due to the scaling of buildings and such. I think if you put an SM from DoW next to what would be a human in that setting/engine, they would look like giants who have guns.

It's all relative to their surroundings, and it looks like the scale in DoW2 is much more on target with WH40K as a whole. I can't wait to see it in motion.

[cannonfodder]

Well, space marines ARE a lot larger than your average human... of course, the scale was borked, regardless.

[Pukkun]

I really dislike the shiny look, but...it can't really be helped since bump maps need specular/environment maps to work.
The standard stuff anyway...I'm not sure about 'dem parallax shaders...
Those are nifty...but also need alot more GFX power...

Oh yeah...they should use the same technique Shiny Entertainment used for Messiah and Sacrifice.
Those games still look good today.
Not sure how they pulled it off exactly...it looks like baked normal/bump maps coupled with dynamic polygon reduction/addition.

Anyway...bump mapping should not be the foundation of a 3d model..only the finishing touch.
Something that most producers or recent games seem to have forgotten...if you need a good example:
Oblivion...remove bump mapping from that game and it looks like shit...
Imho...I don't see how it would look bad to mostly use a baked bump map on a model (meaning no dynamic skin glistening) and only a few bump mapped patches where needed, instead of smothering the whole model with it...
You might lose zomg correctly lit arm muscle-bumps...but they also wouldn't look like dunked in baby oil like they do with a full body bump map.
Seriously...don't do that...dry skin looks so much better than frog skin...especially on big smooth things like legs and arms...

Oh well...ranting...etc...guess I'm just jaded or something...but I'm tired of seeing DX features used as main ingredients for 3D models...
Damn plastic-figures...

[Avykins]

Okay not talking about grapics here but how would everyone feel about a little more humour in DoW2 ?
Main example being idle animations, if you dont touch a unit for a while they will just start to do random stuff, IG could I dunno, start eating rations and whipping out porn mags, Orks could start fighting each other, not doing any damage just purely cosmetic and I have this hankering to see CSM just sit down and start playing dice in the middle of the field. I also want (as mentioned in the Dropped Weapons thread) Gretchens to, if theyre not doing anything and theres corpses or destroyed tanks near by, to scavenge parts and make say random things that will either rampage around the field out of control or explode hilariously.
I dunno its probably a bad idea but itd definatly be funny and would add to the "tooney" feel.

[Jivebologna]

Some of what you suggested would definitely be in-character humor, but I don't think they should stretch it too much. The orks got a bit too campy in DC and SS with all of the Gorgutz rofllolz moments; they could do with some toning down a bit. Of course, the new DoW2 Ork models look pretty intimidating.