View Full Version : Tyranids in DOW2
16th Apr 08, 1:36 PM
Lets just pretend that they will be in it.
Maybe there will be 5 races in DOW2 for Orks, Chaos, Space Marines & Eldar leaving one slot for the Tyranids?
Will there be winged Hive Tyrants?
Will Genestealers get to tear their claws into Terminators again in a recreation of Space Hulk?
Tyrant Guard protecting the Hive Tyrant?
Will we get to mutate them with toxic miasma etc?
Give your opinions.
16th Apr 08, 1:53 PM
Tyranids have all sorts of crazy things, some of which non of the races in DoW have anything close.
Shadow in the warp - a horrid side effect from the Hive-Mind. It renders psychers (and communication signals) useless.
Tyranids would be without a doubt the most unique and interesting race but implimenting them is a bit tricky, however with this new style of "less base building" then Tyranids have a good shot.
I would like to see winged units in game and no they do not count as flyers so they could still be added despite Relic stating there will be no flyers.
Alot of the Tyranids can become winged but more than likely we'll only see Gargoyles as the winged ones.
Oh and I WANT MY CARNIFEX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :handbag:
I want to be able to toss aside a tank and laugh at the poor Marines inside as the whole vehicle is tipped over onto its top :nana:
I want stone crusher carnifex with their "twin-linked" crab claws. XD But has anyone ever thought about how unbalanced physicly the current carnifex would be IRL? I mean the way it walks all bent down would make it fall on it's stomach. The tail is far from enough to balance it. :p Btw we all know that the only true carnifex is the 2nd edition one, the screamer killer. Don't you dare say anything else. :muffy:
I want swarms of rippers. :D They are cute.
I hope we get nice tyranid structures like the nice capillary towers (don't know why but I like them so much :)), tyranid spore chimney and reclamation pools.
16th Apr 08, 2:35 PM
Tyranids in DoW2 would be all about swarming attacks, mass mutation and ridiculously potent close combat abilities. I'll leave buildings out of the equation since I don't know what the new system is, but I envision Tyranid buildings as being underground bio-factories launched from orbit with enough force to become subterranean, after which point they expand and produce many of the units that will be used to conquer the planet.
First off, the initial commander would probably be a Bloodlord. Obviously hard as nails in CC, it would also serve as an early-on Synapse unit that would make nearby Tyranid units immune to morale (outside of synapse their morale ratings/likelihood of uncontrolled behaviour would increase, naturally).
The initial front-liners would be Hormagaunts, Termagaunts and Genestealers.
Hormagaunts, obviously, have pretty substantial close combat killing ability and due to their leaping ability (perhaps purchased via research for balance purposes) they would excel at disrupting ranged units and killing lightly-armoured foes.
Termagaunts would serve as the initial ranged units, though their purpose is mostly just to support their close-combat counterparts by being cheap and numerous.
Genestealers are substantially more expensive than their counteparts but have fairly high armour penetration and don't require synapse to function at peak efficiency. Additionally, they may eventually obtain the ability to "deepstrike" via infiltration (or perhaps just enter stealth) to ambush your opponent's units.
Second tier would be all about specialists.
Zoanthropes pop up as simultaneous anti-vehicle weapons and generally unpleasant support units, perhaps with abilities that specifically hinder enemy psyker units (wyrdboyz, librarians, sorcerors, etc) from using powers within a certain distance of them.
Tyranid Warriors show up as the next main synapse unit and customisable do-anything combatant. Too expensive to function in large numbers, but they would make acceptable support/leaders for your army. They might end up acting as effective ranged support units to balance out the otherwise CC-heavy Tyranid faction.
Ripper swarms could show up as an efficient meatshield/distraction/swarm unit, though I doubt it. They might be better if used as an upgrade for Hive Tyrand, Tyranid Warriors and Carnifexes, however, to act as buffers against large numbers of enemy units in CC.
Ravenors might appear as a fast-attack/raid unit. Deep striking would be possible and they'd be potent both at range and in close combat.
Carnifexes might show up with limited customisation, if any.
Finally, in the end-stages, comes the really heavy hitters.
Hive Tyrant, obviously, making his appearance as the best synapse creature and generally pain-in-the-ass commander unit. The Tyrant can be upgraded with a small retinue of Tyrant Guard organisms.
Carnifexes get access to full upgrades that can build them up into extremely difficult to stop killing machines. As an added bonus, there may be an option to have cheap unupgraded carnifexes take infantry cap (if such caps exist).
Lictors show up as stealthed units capable of moving faster than normal stealthed units (possibly permanently concealed unless attacking) and could probably be a threat to unsupported commander units in CC. Units attacked by the Lictor have their defense arbitrarily lowered for a short amount of time. They have no morale.
Biovores, naturally, make up the Tyranid artillery support launching spore mines based on the Tyranid player's preference. Said spore mines float around very slowly and explode as units come near them. Direct hits, obviously, results in instantaneous detonation.
Gaunt units would recieve "without number" upgrade that severely lowers their reinforcement cost.
Possibly include a seeding swarm-styled option to deepstrike genestealer/hormagaunts from orbit with the "Frenzy" upgrade - they constantly lose life but attack much faster and inflict more damage than usual.
Preferably all this would come with army-splitting "doctrines" in the style of CoH such as Seeding Swarm, Without Number and Spearhead, each accentuating radically varied methods of Tyranid combat.
16th Apr 08, 2:40 PM
Let's pretend all you Nid fans realize how hard it will be to properly balance a race with no vehicles... even though there is the "6 squad" thing, anyone with an gram of fluff knowledge knows that tyranids are extremely size dependant to say the least. I'd like to see 6 space marine squads face off 6 appropriately sized tyranid squads...
Also, I am not making any comments towards the current Tyranid Mods, they are doing a great job at what they do.
16th Apr 08, 2:49 PM
Tyranids in DOW2= :up: Tyranids not in DOW2= *Ice_JT cries*
Tyranids wouldnt be hard to balance, thats like saying tyranids would be imbalanced in TT because they dont have vehicles, vehicles are just another armour type, it might just take more time to balance thats all.
16th Apr 08, 3:00 PM
There is something that people have stressed since Vanilla came out. TT Balance does not equal in game balance. All I'm asking is for people to be realistic in knowing fluffwise (not TT wise) Tyranids would be somewhat difficult to pull off, even with the Essence 2.0 Engine.
16th Apr 08, 3:04 PM
In TT, things that tend to blat vehicles also do high damage to large tyranid vehicle substitutes, so it shouldn't be too hard to implement in a system similar to DoW. It would only need making sure that large tyranid monsters have a different armour class to large daemons, such that anti-daemon weapons don't make half the tyranid army useless.
16th Apr 08, 3:12 PM
Tyranids do have vehicle type units. I imagine Carnifexes will be like the tanks, they don't come in squads.
Shadow in the Warp? I thought that happened only with the massive hive fleets, in relation to large warp based messages such as "EMPEROR HELP US!!!"
Tyranids can be done. Especially with the new graphics. Looking at the screenshots, I conclude Tyranids will be awesome in this game engine.
16th Apr 08, 3:15 PM
I just hope you can customize(not simply upgrade!) your little and big aliens with lots of mutations. Alone a Carnifex has so many options it would be a shame if it comes down to two weapon options like for the Crisis suits in DC.
Oh and I don't see any problem because there are no vehicles. Everything can be balanced with armor classes. A lascannon is more effective against a Dreadnought than against a Guardsmen -> A lascannon is more effective against a Carnifex than against a Gaunt. And that is not the only way to balance. In Starcraft a Zealot does not make a difference between a Marine or a building, it is still not quit known for beeing the most unbalanced game ever.
16th Apr 08, 8:30 PM
NOTE: This was in reply to the other thread about Nids which just got locked, so bear with me if I seem to be replying to things which haven't been said.
I like some of these ideas, particularly with the Norn Queen, as this is the kind of minimalist base-building which could plausibly occur in DoW 2 given we know there is going to be little or nothing in the way of permanent buildings.
The titan breeder in particular is something I can't see happening at all, as no race (I hope and I think) is going to have a titan-scale unit, this going even beyond the relic unit level. I can't see the Space Marines calling in Warhound support, and likewise, I can't see Tyranids having titans of their own.
As for the nids evolving, I always had the impression that they were spawned to individual specifications: a Warrior is always a warrior. I think rippers eventually develop into termagants - this would be cool, if you could half-produce termagants virtually for free and then they'd have to eat corpses to fully develop - but not much else has the time to actually grow on the battlefield.
I think a genestealer cult is what I'd like to see from nids. This would be really, really cool. You start off with cultists, with cheap human infantry with practically no equipment and great stupidity (remember, most of the inductees into a genestealer cult are genetically brainwashed, they don't have their human intelligence or full tyranid intelligence, they're for all intents and purposes mentally disabled), and then they get squads of run of the mill genestealers later on (each of whom is far stronger than a human, a little better than an ork and able to fight a space marine hand to hand with some chance of success) and then really nasty genestealers with fleshhooks, poison, muscles etc and their bloated, mutated, Warp-wielding Patriarch as their commander.
They can summon in real Tyranids later on as support, and these would perhaps be available on their own as a variant army.
16th Apr 08, 8:39 PM
I wasn't talking about HUGE titans. they are maybe the size of that crab-like guy for chaos.
16th Apr 08, 9:20 PM
In the recent PC Gamer they stated that the reinforcement system we have now is gone, and that they haven't disclosed how it will be implemented. That being said, the writer said he saw drop pods dropping in mairines often. How cool would it be to see Tyranids launch from a Hive ship(? I forget name of their main ships) as spores, littering the ground with the hordes of the Great Devourer!
17th Apr 08, 1:11 AM
Kien:I completly agree with you. Screamer Killer from second edition is only one true Carnifex. they should never change them. also I liked nids better when they looked more like bugs than what they look now.
Frankie7508: Tyranids in fluff deploy using Mycetic Spores. it is something that works similiar to SM Drop Pods
17th Apr 08, 1:37 AM
Mycetic spore attack would be very cool, I have to say. That would please me a lot more than if they were spawned on the battlefield.
17th Apr 08, 1:59 AM
Yes, about the other thread...
Individual Tyranids do not evolve, Norn Queens do not land on planets, Tyranids don't lay eggs, and spinegaunts do not lay spore mines. You have no idea what you're talking about, don't pretend you do.
17th Apr 08, 11:21 AM
Tyranids would be at a distinct disadvantage due to their lack of use of buildings and other cover, relying mostly on cc. This would rule out a large part of the game in effect for the 'nids - other races can use cover to fire on enemies and kill them as they advance; tyranids can only just wait and then pounce.
Plus it seems ranged firefights are more important what with supressive fire and all that; tyranids woul miss out on a lot.
BAsically, due to the very singleminded way tyranids fight they are hard to integrate into any game.
17th Apr 08, 11:25 AM
It would be easy to give the nids distinct advantages that nullify what you are talking about Fire_Warrior. Their reliance on CC could be a boon if it's done right. Simple abilities like the Kroot's feral leap could be implemented. Imagine a whole swarm of genestealers activating a charge ability that lets them close the gap between an opposing squad of space marine heavy weapons units. Those marines are going to get shredded in no time flat.
It's a little early to be calling imba. ;)
17th Apr 08, 11:42 AM
No imba. At all. The opposite. If DOW2 features cover as one of the most important parts of gameplay, how do you expect tyranids to use it??
The whole point is that they just charge in swarms so cannot possibly defend a building or hold a point they just run and attack and maim and kill.
So yes, combat is fine: but cover -no. They will have to use it (if at all) very differently.
17th Apr 08, 11:48 AM
Maybe they won't use it at all. It would be an interesting distinction from the more "shooty" races. I think they'll probably have a mix. Their bound to have some ranged units and they will probably be able to use cover. Their swarming melee units on the other hand could ignore cover altogether in favor of the protection provided by a tightly knit swarm.
17th Apr 08, 12:51 PM
I think they possibly will let melee units charge into cover, and charge through cover. rather then slowing down.
It would balance things out. since. it says that those who are not in cover. are practically naked. and will get pwnt.
Hope nids are in tbh.
17th Apr 08, 1:01 PM
Have you ever played as tyranids in Tabletop? It doesnt seem so.
While tyranids certainly focus on melee, they have a variety of extremely vicious ranged weapons. They are far more flexible than people think.
Cover is just as important to nids as anyone else, they use it to screen an advance, to provide a firebase, just like anyone else.
17th Apr 08, 1:16 PM
Yes in the advance but not in buildings! <- keep being described as important.
And while tyrandis can be shooty, usually they are not that orientated much to the extreeeme and in the game I expect they will have a balance of the 2: which usually favours melée.
17th Apr 08, 1:30 PM
Don't forget that some tyranids (depending on their mutations) can also climb walls and stuff like that, which other races can't. Sure there might be some Space Marines entrenched in a building and firing from the windows. Then there could be a carnifex making the building collaps like it was made of lego or there could come one or two Lictors climbing through the windows and the last you get from those Marines are their curses and death screams. There could also be lauched something through the windows which will force them to come out. Well, there are a lot possibilities. Tyranids are way more complex than many think, it is really not just some bug swarm like in Starship Troopers.
17th Apr 08, 2:03 PM
i def think tyranids would be hard to implement into the new game engine. For one, tyranids are all about numbers! however, im not so sure the game engine is all about big numbers... for example in CoH i hardley ever have over about 30 or so ppl at one time. large armies might equal bad performance... but im hoping for the best.
Furthermore, about the cover thing... can u really see a swarm of jumbling "bugs" role out of the way of an incoming projectile? or dive into cover the same way a space marine would do like a james bond role behind a wall and then come up with guns blazing? all of the other races use more conventional warfare methods so that it would be easier for one element of combat or tactics to be copied over from race to race, such as the cover system. but then u get to the tyranids and now the devs have to think, ok now wat do we do to make this group of bugs act like the bugs they are but at the same time take advantage of the same systems that the other huminoid races take advantage of?
17th Apr 08, 2:19 PM
Tyranids could use extensive use of cover, make it so squads cant be seen inside buildings less they shoot, so genestealers could jump out and ambush, carnifex could be anti building as they could tear it down, tyranid creatures with flesh hooks could climb and pass over buildings, all it takes is some thought on how to go about implementing and balancing it.
If Tyranids are not in DOW 2 I am going to cry :(
17th Apr 08, 2:26 PM
Crying is good for the soul.
all the above is what would be amazing. whether it will be in or not. is another question interiorly. Yet from everything thats been said from PC gamer and the like. its shaping up to be how it was ment to be made.
17th Apr 08, 2:55 PM
Tyranids do use cover in TT. They use it all the time. They run through cover (with less movement reduction that other races) and use the added durability that it grants to get to the enemy before they die. Sniperfexes sit in forests so the nasty lascannon fire that tries to silence them bounces off a cover save instead. Lictors can Deep Strike into cover and give those inside a rather unpleasant surprise. Biovores sit behind cover so it blocks enemy line of sight so they can freely barrage the foe with Spore Mines.
Tyranids don't just charge. Sure, most of their units do, but the infamous Dakkafex uses its 4 devourers to rip through light infantry at a scary speed and the Dakkarant has 50% more shots and wings. The primary Gaunt is far better at shooting than close combat, and they're damn good at shooting. A fleshborer hit is more lethal than a bolter hit, and against nearly all targets more effective than a hit from a pulse rifle. And that isn't point-for-point lethality, that's a straight comparison of stats between a 6 point Termagaunt and a 15 point Tactical Marine. Zoanthrope's Warp Blasts can wipe multiple Marines off the table in one hit or blow up a Land Raider. Spore Mine bombardments can be quite deadly to massed infantry units.
A Tyranid force would not just go "STOMP STOMP STOMP KILL!". You would not be able to do a Banzai charge with everything you had, or else you would be ripped to pieces. If your opponent is a bunch of entrenched Guardsmen, a massed charge would result in lascannon fire quickly removing your Synapse, then watching your confused Gaunts mill around acting on instinct rather than your orders. What you could do is infiltrate their position with Lictors to see what they have, then have Raveners tunnel into the enemy lines, causing massive carnage. While their troops are being killed, you fleet Genestealers around the back of the enemy forces and shred their tanks in seconds. Gargoyles can fly around killing anyone not engaged in close combat and finally you send in Rippers to eat the dead and create more Tyranids. That example didn't have one mention of Gaunts or monstrous creatures. Tyranids are the least two-dimensional race their is, you just have to look past the stereotypical Zerg rush.
17th Apr 08, 4:28 PM
When Tyranids finish conquering a planet, ALL TROOPS are taken in and reduced down to biomass to be reabsorbed into the Hive Ships. Then they take what they have consumed, learned, etc, and make newer and better warriors.
There are no such things as "veteran" Tyranids nor "evolved on the battlefield" warriors. Mutations may occur, but that's it. Once Tyranids win the planet, all troops, EVERY ONE including the Hive Tyrant, are reduced back to biomass in the digestion pools and reabsorbed.
Now, in DOW2, you could do something like having digestion pools in places, and whenever you need to implement and upgrade, say you have rippers devour all this Ork biomass, you send their swollen, fat bodies to the pools and give enough biomass to create new troops for the next battle or something.
I believe they utilize capillary towers (or is it something else) to send the biomass to the ships for troop production and assimilating all the racial DNA from devoured organisms.
I dont see trynids working in the modified coh engine. The largest squad in CoH is 6 men, hardly a big swarm. I would hate to see the pathing issues with a 20-30 unit squad all moving about trying to auto find cover. A melee heavy large unit count race wouldnt work well in the CoH engine, so they must be going to do a lot of work on it to make it viable.
17th Apr 08, 4:35 PM
I think the chances are very good that a big focus for the DoW2 development team was fixing the pathing issues so that the engine can support larger, massed forces. Orks have already been confirmed and if the green tide isn't pulled off well, that is going to be a major blow to this game.
17th Apr 08, 5:22 PM
what noble said, if tyranids can't be implemented because of big numbers, so as Orks or IG.
17th Apr 08, 7:41 PM
Imperial Guards will show you blokes their true might *Guardsmen rushes*.
17th Apr 08, 9:18 PM
Well, it's not going to be an enormous battlefield, it's going to be more small unit tactics, so I think Tyrannids like Lictors, Warriors, and Carnifexes would play more of a role than things like Gaunts or Rippers. I'm sure the engine can depict the initial tactics of a Hive fleet. Which is to send units like Genestealers and Lictors to various planets to find good sources for food. For those wanting to see a full on Swarm with hundreds of units, I think you're in for some disappointment. The more This game is previewed, the more it looks like a cross between RPG and RTS, with collectable stuff becoming part of the game.
17th Apr 08, 10:55 PM
@Hive mind - i wasnt questioning if tyranids use cover, i was just saying that implementation would be totally different then other races.
18th Apr 08, 11:53 AM
implementation of th etyranids in to the dow game should be done as fast as poss becouse thay would be a great army to play against and with
i can just imagine the crems from the enemy as swarms of diffrent types of nids eat them b4 moveing on to something bigger
yes we want the nids in dow but thay must be done right
18th Apr 08, 1:17 PM
well i agree, they would def add some more flavor to the DOW game. i mean when it comes down to it space marines and tyranids are really the two original 40k races. i think both of them were introduced in the TT space hulk game.
18th Apr 08, 1:34 PM
I assume that with the addition of tyrands DOW2 could appeal to a much wider audience, also to those aliens lovers.
19th Apr 08, 7:28 AM
Guys... we're not making this thread into another "DoW2 or SC2?" arguement. Please keep it on topic as to what you'd like to see out of the 'Nids if they make it in-game for DoW2 or an expansion, and keep in mind that statements like "If there aren't Nids I'll just buy SC2!" don't add anything to the discussion.
20th Apr 08, 9:01 AM
i want nids too
what better ways to showcase essense 2?
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