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[verybad]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=186773

Didn't see this anywhere here. Not too much new, but a different take on what we've heard so far at least.

Seems like there's a touch of RPG going into this. More collectable loot and so on. I hope this is so, done properly it could be an addiction for years...

[{OGS}Sirius]

:P omg, i'm happy about some things and sad about others, the way he explain it made buildings to be no more. Although the loot pick up made me smile. The way he describe the dread was awsome, and the battle sound amazing. So when will we get to see the video demo. I would love to see the video demo.

[Frankie7508]

Cool preview, it gave a slightly new take on it. The writer seemed to stress how the scale was lowered to a more elite/personal level. This is both exciting and disappointing at the same time. While smaller battles aren't as epic as larger ones, strategy will play a much greater role it seems, thankfully. I am extremely excited about marines being more elite; however, I hope they don't trim the numbers for other races i.e. orks/nids(if they're in). Otherwise everything seems to be AMAZING.

[FifteenHours]

The emphasis on a lack of buildings, and also the WoW style loot elements really turn me off. :(

This is just sounding to me like it's going to take that repetitive skirmish factor people have complained about in DC and SS, and crank it WAY up to it just being "Here's your dudes...now smash stuff!"

That was my big issue with games like World in Conflict....I just start a battle and call in some units....watch them blow crap up....rinse and repeat. Also similarly (though on a bigger scale) was Warhammer: Mark of Chaos. You just get some guys, attack the enemy, crush him, move on.

I honestly like the "production-line" feel as they called it. That way I have to actually work my way into a position to achieve victory. Battles feel more involved that way. Of course...it's still way too early to tell I suppose...just saying that the current previews are making me quite skeptical.

[Silent]

Like FifteenHours, I'm a tad skeptical on if this would actually work, and the preview did put me off. For crying out loud, I DON'T want to read a long essay about how awesome my suit of power-armor is.

But for now, I'm going to download the CoH demo and see how it works. From what I am getting, DoW2 will take elements from CoH, so if I just play a skrimish mission with the CoH demo, I might know what I am getting into.

[Weavern]

Near as I can tell, this seems to be only SP. With the phat loot. But I might be mistaken.

In either case its good to finally read some of these articles :)

[Imperial Dane]

Well the preview seemed quite geared towards the campaign, so most likely things mentioned there are for the campaign as well. and i would be surprised if buildings aren't in.

[NeoHunter]

It may seem premature at the moment to say whether the new gameplay style will entice me or not.

I mean, giving me a few squads and then asking me to complete a whole mission...seems a little...constrictive to me. You know? Like....more stressful. I was hoping that Dawn of War 2 would retain the base building elements and allow players to continue having massive havoc with great armies waging battles across the entire battlefield. Not an elite few.

Shall continue to monitor the game's development progress. :)

[Lomax]

"Kinda like '300'," says Ebbert, referencing the film of the famed Spartan last stand. "Except space marines are so badass it's called '30'."
I wasn't certain if they would portray the Space Marines correctly, as the complex parts of their psychology might escape them, but that sounds pretty reassuring.

[Tesla]

im sure that you can still call in more units and some kinda of recourse gathering is still present in the game. if its not, its gonna seem more like a supped up hero's of world war two in the 40,000 millennium :(

[NeoHunter]

Yeah. And that would be very bad.

[EclipseXX]

Well for those who are afraid that the reduction of scale (5-6 squads cap) will reduce the ferocity of battles or that such reduction will make battles small and not interseting, I really suggest you try CoH.
It's far more limited in terms of squads than DoW, however thanks to engine on which CoH is based (Essence) battles feel much more massive and intense than any in DoW has ever felt. In DoW it's just sending massive forces and watching them slaughter each other, and you get worried if you lose a squad perhaps. In CoH you feel for each solider in a squad, and it can get damn intense for example when that squad gets under artillery fire... Not to mention just how awesome artillery fire's impact looks and feels.

I'm actually very much looking forward to DoW2, as it seems to be heading into right direction.

[cannonfodder]

That's not what I would call "intense". If I had to sum up CoH in one word, it would be "slow". Now, that aint neccesarily a bad thing. It's more a thinking game, you cannot afford to screw up.

But DoW was a lot faster paced, which is why I preferred it. I was planning to upgrade my rig just to be able to play DoW2, but if it's Company of Space Marines I will pass over it alltogether and stick with DoW1.

Edit: no base building and sooo much RPG-ness. Not really fancy so far.

[ricolikesrice]

loot, less (no?) basebuilding, unique characters with your squads...... all that has been done before in a warhammer strategy computer game from 98, and that game was absolutely awesome (warhammer: dark omen).

relic doing a spiritual sequel, with CoH goodness thrown in and in 40 k .... as if a dream came true ( i was so disappointed with mark of chaos which should have been a spiritual sequel to dark omen but was pretty crappy instead ).

really looking forward to this =)

[Bravus]

this sounds SO GOOD!!!! i have no doubt that DoW 2 will have it's very own style and from what i've read so far i'm gonna love it!

[Wargrim]

Sounds good so far. I guess loot will be mainly for the campaign, and for Multiplayer it will be more like medals and archivements. Nothing i would need to have fun playing a game, but it also doesnt hurt anyone and will appeal to all the people that live for their automatch rank, hehe. :)

[Romanov77]

Reading the article made me imagine this:


Space Marine Force Commander kills the Ork Warboss "Shenk da' Overseer"

a shiny little ring falls on the ground from the ork's corpse.

The FC takes it...uses a ID scroll and then yells:

OMFG!!! IT'S A SOJ!!!!!

[LoRd KoRn]

I didn't see it anywhere mentioned that you get your army at the beginning and steamrole your enemy. DoW2 will be different they said. I believe you will get new units ingame by taking points or achieving some other stuff rather than having bases where you put some good unit on overwatch and THEN steamrole your enemy.

[Dakor]

I'm glad that DoW 2 is going to be a new game, and not DoW1 with upgraded graphics. :) Relic has shown to be able to introduce fun elements of innovation in its strategy games, so I believe they are going to do a great work this time too. I only hope that there will be many strategic elements, not to reduce the game to "select your unit, right click on the enemy, watch the scene", but according to what I've understood so far this is unlikely. :p

[Necronmaniac]

I think it's interesting that people perceive the removal (or at least dumbing down) of base building and troop production as restrictive.

I am not saying you are wrong of course, everyone can have an opinion. My opinion is that the approach that it seems Relic are taking in DOW2 is actually liberating. I think it is exciting in that you will now actually have to USE strategy.

It's easy to just throw squad after squad of marines at a defensive position in DOW1 because you can just spam a load more. That is not strategy, but forcing players to think about how they will use the units they have been given because they cant just build more of them, that REQUIRES strategy.

Plus as has been said, the MP mode that they have yet to reveal may well incorporate base building and take a more standard approach.

[gorays]

OMG, that sounds so sweet!!!

Here's hoping you can have wargear for vechiles too, that would be sweet. :)

[cannonfodder]

Necronmaniac, if you loose squad after squad for no effect in DoW, you are on a sure way to loose... unless your opponent is not on par.

[runab0ut]

Yes, you and a friend are going to be able to take on the xeno hordes at your leisure, or team up to let blood for the blood god...

Does that mean Chaos is in?! (yesss!!!)

[Zaljin]

As someone mentioned it seemed that the game is moving towards Warcraft III with little base building. This sucks because I hated Warcraft III, way too much micro for me and RPG-like.

I think the game looks beautiful but I am not sure about the game play.

However, I like the idea of Space Marines finally being "fluff tough"

[Ruined]

Does that mean Chaos is in?! (yesss!!!)

You're just reading too much into a journalist's creative spin on the news there is co-op.

They'd have no way of knowing about any races except the two they were shown.

[Croaxleigh]

I was wondering when someone would notice that. *smiles* They mention earlier in the article that Relic wouldn't tell what any of the other races were, so they'd have no way of knowing if Chaos was in. I think the reporter was just trying to put a little bit of DoW flair to the article with the "blood god" comment.

[FrostPaw]

"Blood for the blood god"

I dunno...looks like a reviewer mixing racial warcries confusing it with blood ravens.

Don't mind the no base building idea, not hugely keen on the battlefield looting as an objective. Spacemarines bring what they need they don't scavenge.

[FerociousBeast]

Hmmmmmm

I'm not so sure about all this. If the "small, elite units" bit applies mostly to the Space Marines, yippee hurray. But orks, IG, tyranids... none of these rely on small, elite units.

I'm also VERY skeptical that "WoW-style" loot is a good idea. I thought heroes (and creeps) ruined Warcraft 3.

[GRIM Ripper]

i hope that item and looting crap isnt in multiplayer... i dont want to search around maps for 20 minutes just to be on par with the enemy... i want to friggin fight them on an even playing field.

now if their were like items given based on points taken (like relics that gave you some sort of wargear), then it might work and promote fighting over that point, but theyd have to be careful not to make it so whoever owns the wargear wins type thing.

[TheLoneKnight]

I think it's more likely that the item looting stuff will be present in Singleplayer as stuff you hunt out/find on the map, whereas in multiplayer the items will be represented as individual squad upgrades of some sort. To let you customise your army the way you see fit, I mean.

Might be kind of cool. Have one squad with flamers decked out with chainswords instead of the normal daggers, perhaps with some kind of protective scriptures or something attatched to their armour, while another tac squad has heavy bolters with enhanced targeting scanners or slight modifications. I dunno, depends on how they go about it. :)

[{OGS}Sirius]

To bad a dev won't post and just nod vaguely to some of our comments. @.@ yes i will take vague nods as acceptable answers to my questions at longs i know a relic dev atleast is looking at the forums ;p. ( possibly bits of string as well). As well this does sound more like an rtt but i doubt they will move the game in that kind of range. ^^ but they making it sound so living world and free.

[Croaxleigh]

Sirius: Didn't they actually say in the article that they were making it a lot more tactical than most RTS games?

[{OGS}Sirius]

i was meaning taking all sort of base building completely out @.@ that would also mean multiplayer. But he said to a less extent so there is base building? Well thats what it said in my magazine issue.

[Croaxleigh]

Well, keep in mind that none of the previews have said anything about multiplayer other than mentioning the co-op campaign and that there's some new multiplayer mode... that's literally the extent of the MP information, so it's entirely possible that MP won't have any more base options than the campaign does.

[{OGS}Sirius]

ohhh yeah co op campaign, that sound so lovely i mean really really lovely. I just hope that both players can play in real time and not just when one attack you wait hours before he done like in bfme 2.

^^ now two of us can fight a stronghold and whine about how hard it is.

[Gregasaurus Rex]

It sounds more like strongholds a la DC/SS are out and you simply have a set of objectives to complete on each map.

[konfeta]

To be honest, this isn't evolution of RTS. The impression from these previews so far is that Relic is changing genres.

[fs_xyz]

Personal wargear ? Hmmm.... kind of remind me to Spellforce.

[Croaxleigh]

Konfeta: I've gotten somewhat of that vibe myself, or at the very least they're merging genres to make it more of a tactical strategy game. There's still so much info that hasn't been revealed about it though that it's hard to say for sure at this point.

[_vertinox_]

Sounds good so far. I guess loot will be mainly for the campaign, and for Multiplayer it will be more like medals and archivements. Nothing i would need to have fun playing a game, but it also doesnt hurt anyone and will appeal to all the people that live for their automatch rank, hehe.

It would be cool if they did have war gear available for online matches based on a point system.

Each player gets to buy say 1000 points of war gear before the match and can customize their armies before they rumble. That would add a nice "Rock, paper, scissors" aspect that you could counter certain strategies with wargear so it won't be just plain old vanilla strategies online.

[Kamikazebob]

Reminds me of Chaos Gate, though not Turn Based. I'm personally looking forward to this more so now because I love this type of game play. Personalize the characters and all that is a nice addition, imo. Though I am going to miss instant reinforce, now I cal lob drop pods at the enemy.

[Richdog]

I have a very good feeling that this game is going to suck in MP due to the way they are aiming towards a base-light, "tighter" setting. It really doesn't look good for epic skirmish lovers imo.

I think when this game is released Relic are going to experience a big backlash as all the hardcore DOW crowd suffer huge dissappointment in the MP scene.

[LoneWolf666]

Yes, predicting that MP will suck a year before the game is out based solely on SP campaign sneakpeek is SUCH a good idea.

[Richdog]

No-ones saying we can't speculate or predict anything, in fact this section is FULL of it, wind your neck in. :)

Fact is that large scale base-building games are what 90'~% of us here loved about the original DOW, many of us have been praying for a more evolved version of it with the same scale but massively improved engine, AI etc. Now we have relic openly saying in several articles that the emphasis will be on small-scale battles and very little base-building.

Can't you understand why people are worried? It wouldn't be the first time a reputable developer has tried to take their franchise in a new direction and screwed it up in the process... shame some of the fanboys who believe Relic can do no wrong would never be willing to accept that.


The plan is to give gamers "long term goals" and a "steady stream of rewards". Ebbert says that gamers have a lack of attachment to RTS characters, and that has to change. Even before the Relic duo have begun explaining the revised 'wargear' concept, we can see where this is headed. Dawn of War 2 is going to focus on a limited number of characters - persistent faces who, as in an RPG, will be built up and developed by you as the game progresses.

Your characters are going to pick up valuable pieces of loot as they go through their violent lives, and you're going to be able to equip them between missions via character management screens. Far more involved than previous games, the new wargear has a potent whiff of World of Warcraft about it, with the different items having descriptions and colourful names rather similar to those we're so familiar with from the Blizzard fantasy monolith.

Seriously, wtf. We HAVE to have attachment to RTS soldiers do we? Says who? Items with names reminiscent of er... Warcraft? If I wanted an RPG I would buy a ****ing RPG.

[LoneWolf666]

There is nothing wrong with speculating, as long as you actually have a basis to speculate on. You don't. They said nothing about MP except that there will be a coop campaign. Far as we know there will be some building, probably very CoH-like, and the mechanics utilised in the SP campaign will in all probability NOT be used in MP.


Fact is that large scale base-building games are what 90'~% of us here loved about the original DOW

It is not a fact, it is your opinion. And in all possibility a wrong one. I for one loved DoW because of the excellent new mechanics, like close combat, streamlined resource management, the universe, sync-kills. Certainly not base-building. And DoW2 seems to be improving on what I liked, so I for one am VERY happy with the direction it is going.

[konfeta]

You mean, in the direction of happily throwing all that innovation out of the RTS genre? Relic could have been the one to actually evolve it, prove that it's ideas would work in a quality RTS that people play on-line, and perhaps competitively.

While it is too early to say what the multilayer is gonna be like, what is not too early to say is that they are taking out the strategy out of RTS and happily switching the genre trains. I have *no* problems with a quality tactical game based on Warhammer40k, but I do have a problem of that quality tactical game coming in at the expense of an incredible RTS.

[Mardhyn]

Eliminating most buildings in favor of enhanced squad mechanics and maneuvers is not a bad thing. If anything it dramatically enhances the realism, and for a couple reasons;

1. If SM do send down HQ's then they would be humongous, a standard Space Marine is 8-9 feet iirc and the HQ would more then likely be double that size, but in DoW your SM squads are as tall as the HQ.

2. Err, why are you building buildings anyway? Sure I can understand webway gates or drop pod areas, but plasma generators or a Library?(Sorry, the name continues to slip my mind and the wiki is down)

I don't quite see why people want base building to remain, if your idea of fun is to build up a small town then Simulation games may be your thing. And as for those who use past games such as Mark of Chaos to say that it will not work, have more faith in Relic. While they don't always deliver on some levels(I would say usually post-game) they always deliver a rock solid RTS, and DoW2 will be no different. Hell, it will be the best RTS by them so far as it is made in the amazing Warhammer universe, they have over a decade of experience now, they more then likely have a higher budget, and they have the awesome power of Essence 2.0. Oh, and they are RTS geniuses to boot.

I was going to post that in another thread, but it was locked just before I posted it so I hope it still makes sense. x)

[Desk]

About base building , there is a quote from Jonny Ebbert (they say that he is DOW2's lead designer )in the magazine Atomic (n° 88).
He say that he want the game to be much more like the tabletop version.He also ask who want to make basebuilding.

I would like to write the exact quote here but I don't know if it is allowed to reproduce a quote or not.

[konfeta]

Eliminating most buildings in favor of enhanced squad mechanics and maneuvers is not a bad thing. If anything it dramatically enhances the realism, and for a couple reasons;

Gameplay trumps realism. Unless they figure out a suitable mechanic to replace base building as an objective you can harass/attack to weaken your enemy this becomes a tactical squad game, which regardless of how many times you say RTS in your post is not an RTS.

[Croaxleigh]

Desk: Paraphrasing is fine. Direct quotes from copyrighted material aren't allowed.

That said, I get the feeling that I will be sorely disappointed if they do end up making DoW2 to be more or less like "40k Tabletop: The Videogame", if for no other reason than the fact that I've had to say that it wasn't that so many times. *sighs*

[Richdog]

There is nothing wrong with speculating, as long as you actually have a basis to speculate on. You don't. They said nothing about MP except that there will be a coop campaign. Far as we know there will be some building, probably very CoH-like, and the mechanics utilised in the SP campaign will in all probability NOT be used in MP.

No basis to speculate on? Er... not sure how you define "basis for speculation", butI define it as speculating based on information you have available. We have informiiton available. I am speculating. Isn't English great?

While we have had no concrete info about MP, it usually follows along the same vein as the single player where RTS games are concerned... the original DOW and COH were exactly the same in MP as they were in SP mechanics-wise, and it's unlikely that DOW2 is going to have a radically different MP mechanic to its' SP, though obviously not impossible... hey, i'd be GLAD to be proved wrong.

As for me being wrong about the vast majority of users loving the traditional DOW base mechanic... well just take a look around the forums or take a poll. DOW is massively successful for a reason.


You mean, in the direction of happily throwing all that innovation out of the RTS genre? Relic could have been the one to actually evolve it, prove that it's ideas would work in a quality RTS that people play on-line, and perhaps competitively.

While it is too early to say what the multilayer is gonna be like, what is not too early to say is that they are taking out the strategy out of RTS and happily switching the genre trains. I have *no* problems with a quality tactical game based on Warhammer40k, but I do have a problem of that quality tactical game coming in at the expense of an incredible RTS.

Bingo, my sentiments exactly.

[Maximus Decimus]

I being a long time fan of Dawn of War have to say that I absolutely hated what Winter Assault did for the franchise. Before WA, DoW was a much more skirmish focused game akin to Company of Heroes but on a slightly larger scale. When winter assault and its soft counters were released DoW became about the "huge base battles" with large spammed armies shooting away at each other and I felt that if anything that was detrimental to the gameplay. I prefer the original design of DoW with hard counters where key units make or break the entire battle. I think that 90 percent statistic is nothing more than an opinion as I remember the forums being swarmed by people complaining about the new soft counter system and the spammage that ensued.

Edit: I've also read all the articles and I dont see why people suddenly think this is going to be Ground Control II or World in Conflict. They are streamlining the base system which means they are still included but there probably will not be very many buildings or energy generators. Company of Heroes is the best RTS on the market and its base building is quite minimal (stream lined).

[Richdog]

If it was on the same scale as COH i'd be a happy man... i'm just scared of it all being too tight and restricted...

[Tuna]

But I dont like CoH.

I want DoW

Not CoH.

Bases are great fun, I've been playing strategy since Red Alert and I've always built massive bases.

Why?

Because I could.

I love making massive armies, and massive bases and I love annahilating a massive base and annahilating a massive army. Massive epic battles are awesome, small ones aren't. To me DoW2 LOOKS fantastic.

But it doesn't sound fantastic. I'm kind of dissapointed to be honest, heroes? My favourite units are the Flash Gitz I dont care about heroes, sure the warboss is cool but I don't really want an emotional connection :P

I don't know what I think of this. I'm reserving judgement until we know more.

I'm gonna buy it anyway.

[Frankie7508]

One of the things that threw me off a little bit was the various articles talking about "acid, fire, frost, lightning etc. hammers". I'm not a fluff expert by any means, but I have never heard of an acid or frost hammer in W40k. I understand a Thunder Hammer, and maybe some type of hammer with flames(I don't know of one off the top of my head), but I think they may be going too much in the WoW direction that the article mentioned.

I agree with Tuna. I loved epic battles and I am sorely disappointed that they are moving towards smaller battles. I'm fine with having fewer uber marines, but lowering the scale of the whole game is sort of sad. I like the idea of making heroes and sergeants more important though.

[LoneWolf666]

You mean, in the direction of happily throwing all that innovation out of the RTS genre?

Which part of "all that innovation" is being thrown away? As far as I can see, it is being improved, not thrown away. Unless you call base building an innovation.

And we do not even know IF it is out. We do know there's "limited building".


We have informiiton available.

On MP? No, we don't. You use info about SP to support your MP theory. And single player part of the game needn't neccessarily be similar to the multiplayer part. EAW is one example.

So when playing through the campaign, you collect wargear, improve your six squads etc. but when you jump into multi you actually build your squads in your base and them give them weapons via upgrades. At least, I guess it will look like this.

[{OGS}Sirius]

HEy think of this though, smaller battles more animation and extras like co-op campaign, @.@ more better scale on vehicals and detial on tanks. more detail on units more animations on the units. Better map enviroments. Possibility of ambient life on the map. More depth too the maps such as being able to go into buildings and fight and underground to the sub station. More weapon effects and detail each faction weapons to look different. Such as a ork flamer can look like a pile of junk while sm flamer looks perfect piece of art. Not to mention more map effects such as mobile defense with tanks and self made crater defense. If they add nids they can even have them hanging from walls and roofs.

This is all a possibility that this could get added. The reason is smaller battles and which cause less space usage and more room to give a lot of important extras that would other wise ruin the game @.@ thats what I think any ways. I just hope they add history books in the game so i can read an indepth description on each unit and tank.

[konfeta]

Which part of "all that innovation" is being thrown away? As far as I can see, it is being improved, not thrown away. Unless you call base building an innovation.

And we do not even know IF it is out. We do know there's "limited building".

It's too early to say if the DoW series switched genres, but if it did, there is your innovation that was thrown away from the genre of RTS. If all they did really was limiting base building rather than removing it or relegating it useless, then I assume we have nothing to worry about.

[LoneWolf666]

Ah, I understand your concern now. Sorry for being a dolt. :)

I don't think Relic will try to switch genres, one of the previews stated that resources and building are in, though more limited. It means either small-scale defenses or CoH-like base building, where there are about 4-5 buildings per side + defences.

[MasterOfMankind]

God, I love that article. Just about everything I've wanted in Dawn of War is being included. I could not be happier. The fact that Relic is making an effort to make the player feel "powerful" (especially through wargear, items, and equipment) is definitely the way to go.

Speaking as a casual gamer who has never been on the multiplayer scene, that article has pretty much guaranteed that Relic will be getting my money for their next sequel.

[FarseerAnimal]

About the Commanders acting like RPG characters. Perhaps its a system similar to the Mark of Chaos single player. If your character kills an enemy character then they may leave behind an item, be it weapon, potion, armmour, etc. Also, maybe some objectives will be to gain loot, fighting your way though an Ork horde to get to a chapel or the like. Then he can be equipped with said item you have fought for (or maybe after a mission's delay as the preview seems to suggest you must reseach the items.)
Also, quoting from the article to highlight something.

you're going to be able to equip them between missions via character management screens.
Between missions. This would imply Single-player only for wargear. Or obviously on the MP co-op, but the way MP works at the present I doubt wargear will be present, barring the usual research to upgrade commanders powersword to thunderhammer, etc.
Another thought to make characters more wanted. Possibly a system similar to Sins of a Solar Empire. On that game Capital ships slowly level up as they're fighting. The longer they're alive and killing enemies the higher they level. As they level up you can spend points on giving them special abilities. Maybe Relic plan on something similar to this to make characters more personal. And with each level you can give him an improved power, maybe Orbital Bombardments, with extra shots for higher levels, or a morale/damage buff. This could also be implimented in MP, aslong as each power is imbalanced.
All in all though, I'm just speculating. But its a thought.

-Animal

[cannonfodder]

I hope they pull an Incubation on us. Let me elaborate.

In Incubation you lead a small squad of space marines against the vast tide of green enemies in a doomed city (heh, somehow it suddenly sounds familiar ;) ). Your men gained experience with kills and surviving missions. You could personalize their wargear through upgrades (weapons, armour, steroids, tech gadgets, stuff like that), which you funded from "requisition depots" (read: generic warfare material) you found on the battlefield.

Could live with that. And it would surely beat the "you just found an very ancient and rare stuff randomly lying on the battlefield"!

[{OGS}Sirius]

So far as i know you get six squads and extras like tanks and dreads possibly different catergories as in getting scouts and termies @.@ which is sounding more like ground control.

[Demonhorde]

Im even more afraid now then before, please keep more of the DoW concept alive. Im all for strong marines but dont go overboard with the loot-drop mechanics. At this point im not even sure they will add tanks. We see im still holding my hopes but i cant see taht working with the loot system. Oh and please for the love of god keep some of the CoH resource mechanics, I dont want the manpower resource to filter back over time like WiC. That would suck.

[Ap0k]

At this point im not even sure they will add tanks.
Considering there are predator husks, as well as dreadnoughts, in many of the released screenshots/pics in magazines, it's probably a fairly safe bet that vehicles will play their part. Not giving armies at least a decent range of their vehicles would be tantamount to excessive stupid on the part of relic.

[cannonfodder]

Well, if they do keep the CoH style of things, one WILL need vehicles (or at least anti-tank infantry weapons) to deal with enemy armour, making having tanks a must.

Of course, it's theoretically still possible for player-controlled tanks to not exist in DoW2 or play such a minor support role where they won't even really matter. I would call this extremely unlikely, but since we know next to nothing concrete about the game, it's not possible to completely rule it out (for now).

[zer0nix]

reading the review, i was suddenly struck by the impression that perhaps playing dow2 would be like playing wow -except you're personally coordinating and controlling every aspect of the entire party (s) which is AWESOME.

it's also an idea that has surfaced in another upcoming 'rts' that i can't remember the name of right now; it also blends fantasy and scifi elements and i believe entered beta last month. convergent evolution anyone? :p


EDIT: are there any screenshots of the updated dreadnought? i'd like to see how it's been changed; specifically, relic changed the way the arms look for dow by trading a beefier apperance for 'powerfist extension' and a general increase of utility gained by the minor range increase. also, i wonder if the furioso will be making a return. however it may look, after dow and coh, i have complete confidence in relic's ability to bring the unit convincingly -and awesomely- to life, but i'm still curious. another point of interest is it's scale with relation to everything else.

[Meatkin]

I bought the magazine today. I must admit I haven't been reading every post in all the threads here but I did pick up on something that I haven't seen yet. I remember someone mentioning that there are 2 single player campaigns to go through. No one has mentioned the other campaign side. According to a caption in the article, the Orks have their own campaign. Might disappoint anyone who was hoping for a campaign for the other races.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned.

[Frankie7508]

Has anyone else considered whether or not the "undisclosed multiplayer" mode could be an epic/larger scale battle mode more akin to DOW? This would be awesome, as you could do smaller, more tactical battles as well as large epic battles. I think this would make everyone happy....maybe.

[FrostPaw]

I'm not a fluff expert by any means, but I have never heard of an acid or frost hammer in W40k. I understand a Thunder Hammer, and maybe some type of hammer with flames(I don't know of one off the top of my head), but I think they may be going too much in the WoW direction that the article mentioned.

Spacewolves have "FrostBlades"

Although I havn't seen a source for anything relating to DoW2 regarding what you just mentioned.

[Frankie7508]

The various hammer types were mentioned in the US PC Gamer article. I don't know whether they were merely making examples of the types of weapons they thought would be in, or referencing actual examples that they saw. I guess the frost thing isn't so bad then. Thanks for the example.

[Fish Of Doom]

a frostblade is AFAIK just a big power weapon.
the frost, lightning, etc weapons thing is kinda stupid. and totally anti-fluff unless you're talking daemon weapons. it was probably just the magazine editors being cheeky.

[Ludovsky]

Personally, I'm not too worried about that wargear loot system.

Simply said, look at Dark Crusade and Soulstorm's campaign. Now look at this little "wargear" screen. It's exactly that, except I feel they'll probably expand it to something even better with a greater amount of choice that might actually causes you to choose between two different melee weapons instead of just "beefing melee". Without mentionning all of the other possibilities....

I mean, ever looked at Game's Workshop unit range? On one side, you have a chaos lord in terminator armour wielding a combi bolter with a power/daemon sword in the other armour. Thhey, you have another lord in more standart armour, with twin lightning claws and a raptor jetpack.

Dawn of War and wargear/loot is simply a natural fit when you think of it.

[Majestic Flint]

Not sure I like these changes, as more information comes in I will make up my mind. Most of the key points they made I don't really like... I mean loot in an rts... *sigh* sounds like a mic between company of heros and warcraft 3.... both good games but not something I would think combine well. Maybe they just explained things in a bad way, oh well I will wait for more news of course.

[Croaxleigh]

Frankie: If the "undisclosed multiplayer" is more akin to DoW, then I would hope it would be available for single player Skirmish as well... it would really suck to have it available as an option only for multiplayer games, since some folks don't like playing multiplayer but would probably enjoy the old style of gameplay as an option.

Majestic Flint: I'm in the same boat... I keep seeing things that get me excited about DoW2, then I keep hearing things about it that make me feel kind of "eh" about it. Holding off judgement until theres a lot more info out, though.

[stopgap]

ahh well for once im more in the fanboy side of things... it doesnt make it easy to be objective when im really liking pretty much every idea i hear... sorry to break with the unified worry front, i suspect the wargear system is gonna rock.

[yetanotherplayer]

I think (pray) this is far enough away to quote...


EDIT: are there any screenshots of the updated dreadnought? i'd like to see how it's been changed; specifically, relic changed the way the arms look for dow by trading a beefier apperance for 'powerfist extension' and a general increase of utility gained by the minor range increase. also, i wonder if the furioso will be making a return.
Before the gamesradar.com screens were taken down I saw that the Dreadnoughts shown did have 2 power fists and seemed larger than they were in DoW I. How much larger I don't recall... I'm personally hoping for universe-accurate scaling.

[Shadow Walker]

so that means we will again see Furioso variant of Dreadnought? very unfluffy. maybe they will change that

[NeoHunter]

I don't think all Dreadnaughts that have two power fists are Furioso.

[Shakrith]

NeoHunter, I was under the impression that they are by definition.

[Maniakes]

As read the game will be not so epic scale..so big vehicles will not appear?
mmh..what race is based on the vehicle strength? IG! Bye bye..i think that race will not be present O_o
The game is going to be focus on mini battles and of course melee..ig have not great units in that..we are losing some aspect of DOW for earnings new ones..btw i like the changes..

[DeafMute]

What gives you the impression that the battles will be mini? and by mini. you mean what?
Smaller then that of DoW?

[Maniakes]

Of course..i don't see a baneblade on background figured out by the article O_O

[FrostPaw]

The Furioso is a Weapon Pattern for a Dreadnought, It was designed by the blood Angels much like the Land Raider Crusader was designed by the Black Templars although it dosn't make it Exclusive to its designer.

Typically in army lists The Designers get certain perks or fluff relating to the common use of such design variants but that dosn't mean they are never used by any other chapters. Long before GW decided the Blood Angels where the thematic Vampire Space marines rather then just a generic chapter the Furioso existed.

[verybad]

As read the game will be not so epic scale..so big vehicles will not appear?
mmh..what race is based on the vehicle strength? IG! Bye bye..i think that race will not be present O_o
The game is going to be focus on mini battles and of course melee..ig have not great units in that..we are losing some aspect of DOW for earnings new ones..btw i like the changes..

erm. There are plenty of vehicles in CoH, and they make a big difference. There's screens of Predators. I think it's safe to consider vehicles in the game and an important part of it. It will be very fun if you can keep vehicles through the campaign and upgrade them as you go along.

As for stuff like the Acid Hammers and whatnot mentioned.
The Warhammer universe has Billions of populated worlds. Just because something isn't mentioned in a Codex to date doesn't mean that it may not have been tryed out by the Imperium at some point during it's ten thousand years of existence. There are numerous artifacts used by special characters in the Codexes (eg Marneus Calgar's Gauntlets of Ultramar, which were at one point in the possession of (and presumably used by) a champion of Chaos)). Your marines are heros, and they're going to come across non standard equipment. Doesn't make them unfluffy.

All Artificer armour is unique, it has standardised rules, but is not the same. A weapons using different sources of their extra damage is fine imo.

[BruceEdwards]

I personally like most of the changes that they have mentioned.

As long as the small-squad mechanic is a Space Marines one - and the Orcs still have their hordes of fodder - I'll be happy.

The 'Wargear' mechanic sounds like a good one for a singleplayer campaign. As far as the multiplayer goes, there are numerous ways you could involve wargear as a mechanic (e.g. purchasing them as upgrades with resource points, purchasing them before game begins).

Nice to see Relic trying to change the mechanics a little, rather than simply giving us "Dawn of War with DirectX 10"

[LynX]

Is that link still active, or did CVG take it down? I get a "Page Not Found" error when i try to open it, and searching for DoW2 doesn't get any results for previews.

[Croaxleigh]

Looks like it was taken down.

[ass45sin]

Google "warhammer dawn of war 2 preview" the link should be on top of the results and use google cache, or

a similar post can be found here

http://www.gamesradar.com/pc/warhammer-40000-dawn-of-war-2/preview/warhammer-40000-dawn-of-war-2/a-20080417114425479049/g-2008032810858707079

Thanks for the link OP ^______^