Ranged Sync Kills

[jon_the_d]

It came up in the thread about limbs, but it seemed a few of us thought that various sync kill style animations for deaths by ranged fire would be completely awesome.

Basically, units take damage as normal, but when they are calculated as having been killed, the sync kill animation will display their death in a brutal, gory and novel way, appropriate to the weapon they were killed by.

The attacker needn't be involved as they are in CC sync kills, they can just start shooting at the next target.

So, what do you all think? would you like to see this implemented?

finally:
With the array of exotic weaponry found in DOW, I'm sure we can come up with some great ideas! over to you.

I personally would love to see a marine completely shredded in a cloud of blood by a warpspiders death spinner!

over to you.

[Oakwarrior]

Sniper rifles can do miracles :)

[Fightingfirst]

Perhaps thats why sync kills have been renamed to (i think its called) extreme kills. Perhaps this name change is incorperating range kills as well.

EDIT: @Oak warrior, Thanks for the correction :)

[Oakwarrior]

Extreme kills actually (IIRC) :-/
I wonder what kind of vehicle "extreme" kills there would be. CoH style gibbage I'd hope :)

[Exsequien]

Ork gets killed by a Hellhound and bursts into flames while doing a happy dance! :D

[HiveMind]

Rail Gun + Gretchin = Fun.
Tyranid weapons would be hilariously fun to watch. Fleshborers and devourers shoot clouds of living ammunition that eat their target alive, venom cannons shoot glass-like poisonous shards that rip you to pieces and warp blasts could look pretty damn funky, but the main thing is barbed stranglers. They shoot a seed pod that sprouts huge barbed tentacles all over the place and entangles everyone with spiky plant bits, killing them in a very nasty fashion. The poor victim would get stuck in it and die a slow and painful death.
Eldar Wraithcannons and D-Cannons would be so damn awesome. Basically, they open a small and temporary rift into the Warp, a nightmarish dimension in which daemons reside, and anything nearby gets killed nastily. They can either be pulled into the Warp and ripped to pieces by daemonic energy, or half of them gets pulled into the Warp. Either way, it's not much fun for the target.

[Shakrith]

If the different weapons killed in different ways at range, I'd have to be hospitalised for a joy overdose.

I want to see:

Bolters: ACTUALLY EXPLOSIVE ROUNDS might be nice. These things fire micro-missiles. They're not submachine guns firing bullets as they seem in DoW. They're small anti-infantry rocket launchers. When someone dies of bolter shots, they should just be blown to bits.

Shurikens: Chopped to bits would be sweet.

Psyker ranged attacks / Daemonic attacks / D-cannons / Warp weapons in general: A screaming seething mass of daemons tears them apart or sucks them into the warp. I can't see how this could not be amazing.

Flamers: Dance around on fire...

HiveMind has, as usual, dominated this thread, and I have to just point to his description of Nid weapons.

[Fish Of Doom]

what i would really love, IF both plasma and melta are in the game, would be to see them properly presented. they're both heat guns, but plasguns fire a "blob" of plasma(although due to the nature of magnetic containment and acceleration it'd probably look almost like a beam) that bursts on contact, splattering the enemy with heat energy. this would mean a big ass molten crater. ork: big green-red blob; marine: half a smoking armor; IG or eldar: priceless :p. melta on the other hand is a directed blast of pure heat. IIRC they use fusion for blast generation, so it's basically a clean shaped-charge nuke. it liquefies a hole right through you and the three guys behind you, thus it's role as anti armor. http://www.pa-sy.com/hhccg/images/karkhul.jpg this shows more or less the effects of a multi-melta(bigger pic on the first HH artbook.

[Sturmtruppen]

maybe not sync kills, cuz thats kinda odd IMO, but there can be effects, for example in CoH flamethrowers will burn infantry and they'll catch on fire and run around uncontrollably before they die, snipers will shoot peoples helmets off

[Flonky]

Maybe guns could be shot out of enemies hands? If an enemy gets shot in the leg enough they could fall over, not fall over dead but stumble.

[jon_the_d]

er....flonky? We're talking about death animations when a unit is killed by ranged fire. I think you're suggesting whole new features unrelated to death animations.

[s33k]

Lasgun kill animations would nice to see, watch someones arm explode from being hit by a lasbolt.

[roflmao]

Epitome of awesome :
Have some melee unit with low health jump up in the air (lets say a stormy-boyz unit) to land on a unit and then have the ranged unit shoot it in the middle of the air and kill it. Similar to what the dreadnought does to a ork in the first DoW intro.

[Thuraash]

Roflmao, that would be incredible, if they could implement it!

[Versian]

Maybe some ragdoll physics included in the death animations?

I've seen soldiers being hit by sniper fire and are moved toward the sniper. It's ridiculous.

[Imperial Dane]

.. noo.. i don't think it would be possible actually, and there really wouldn't be much to see anyways i reckon, besides how would you know where to look ?

[HiveMind]

I can't believe I forgot: rail guns. They are NOTHING like Relic makes them out to be. They fire a small shell at incredible speed and whatever it hits goes splat. There's a little story in the Tau codex about a tank (I think it's a Leman Russ) that gets hit by a rail gun. It doesn't to any major structural damage, just two small holes where it entered and left. However, it travelled as such high speed that everything inside it that wasn't bolted down was pulled through the second hole. That hole was maybe an inch wide. All that was left of the crew was a bloody trail of gore about ten feet away from the tank. If Relic includes that, I can die happy.

[Thuraash]

...


Wow... I now want railguns to work like that... but still, it would be odd for there to be full, but nonfunctional carcasses of tanks hit by those. It would be nice for a sync kill, though, assuming the tank goes kaboom afterwards, just so it's clear that it's busted.

[InvisibleStalke]

Ranged sync kills ala Fallout would be awesome.

[Colonel Brom]

As long as every time someone dies they go into a death animation because that would kinda get old and may cause too much lag. :banana:

[Exsequien]

Well they wouldn't do anything fancy like a dramatic death sequence. They just get some holes into their chest/dissolve/burn to ashes/explode which wouldn't take longer than a sec.

[saki]

I've seen soldiers being hit by sniper fire and are moved toward the sniper. It's ridiculous.

Afaik, thats not ridiculous. The overall knitec enegy of the bullet is small compared to the enegy needed to shift the target in any significant direction, as the bullet has usually a low weight. Therefore its more reasonable for the victim to drop depending on where it was moving/ where its balance was shifted to.
It may look cool and it would defenitly fit 40K but it is by no means realistic to be blown 3 meters away by a single bullet.

Killing animations, which are dependend on the weapon being used would really rock. I could really imagine that they would spice up ranged combat. In special if there was a certain chance of triggering more crazy ones, just like in CC for DOW.

[Fightingfirst]

Saki: So your saying if some one was shot from around 500 yards away with lets say a .50 barrett rifle in the chest the target wouldn't be knocked backwards? If that hits you in the neck from that distance your head will be torn off, if it hits you in a limb well you haven't got it any more. Some how I do think it has the power to knock the target backwards and since this is the 41st millenium I do believe guns will be a lot more powerful.

[saki]

yep, thats what i would assume. Choosing a .50 cal rifle is kinda extreme though, as most other and more common rifles use much smaller ammo like 7.76mm.

Wikipedia says, that a bullet from a .50 cal has an kinetic energy of somewhere in between 13-18kJ (an HK-PSG1 has around 3.5 kJ), when leaving the barrel.
Let's say you shoot a target of 80 kg weight at point blank range and assume also that there is no deformation occurring (as i am awfully bad in maths), which means the kin. energy is directly transferred to the target body.
In this case the speed of the body should be:

v=(E/m)^1/2 = (15000 J/ 80 kg)^1/2 = 2.34 m/s = 8.4 km/h ( 1.96 km/h for the PSG)

now subtract some more for plastic deformation and general energy loss whilst traveling to the target and there is not all that much left to propel the target in any direction.
Considering this makes me think that most hits won't let you go flying anywhere in reality, but I don't have any real world examples to prove :)

Anyway I am still all for it, as 40K shouldn't be about realism in the first place but about cinematic moments.

[Fish Of Doom]

it was proven in mythbusters, you don't fly when hit by a bullet :p

[Fightingfirst]

That would all depend on what type of bullet you use and how far the target is away.

[jon_the_d]

mostly it's the fact that the bullet will go into and through you, so will hardly transfer any energy at all anyway, and even if it transferred ALL it's energy instantaneously, it's still not that much.

So no, I'm against sniper rifles or such guns making you fly backwards, and yes, falling forwards is highly probable, if you were moving that way.

[Versian]

Saki: I wasn't talking about dropping in a certain direction. Of course, I wasn't being specific.

My example was going to be that of a kroot carnivore, which was sniped by a Vindicare and was blasted like, at least 5 feet from where he was standing.

Since death animations are pre-made and there is no ragdoll physics in DoW1, the Carnivore was blown back depending on the direction he was facing, which was, away from my Vindicare. He was blown towards the assassin.

[Luminarie]

I don't think ranged sync kills would be necessary, but... weapons should be more realistic as to what they would do to an enemy. It's pretty silly seeing a chaos marine or whatever to get hit directly by the baneblade only to fly back a bit and get right back up.

So I do hope it's more visceral, not only with melee, but also with ranged weaponry. With the updated graphics there's a whole slew of possibilities, although I think we already know how anyone at the recieving end of a Vindicare's rifle would end up (http://youtube.com/watch?v=0sGjWS2WNNg&feature=related).

[creepiest dani]

I would love to see brutal death animations for those killed by ranged weapons, but also for those killed by spells and psychic powers. I'd like their effects to be so drastic that you'd be able to tell the weapon one was killed with just by looking at the mangled corpse, especially when it comes to more exotic weapons, such as the rail gun.

Yes, Fallout had superb death animations, but so did an old little game called Crusader. Speaking of exotic weapons, there was one in Crusader called the XP-5 BROILER which fired an intense microwave pulse that literally liquefied the flesh of unprotected targets. The effect sounded drastic from the description, but it looked absolutely sick when viewed in action. If Fallout and Crusader did it so well using sprites, imagine what Relic could do with the graphical capabilities of their engine.

[Panama]

One ranged kill I'd REALLY like to see if eldar are included is the farseer lob a singing spear at an enemy and it gets stuck in their chest before returning to her hand *drools* :D

I don't think ranged extreme kills would have the same impact as a cc extreme kill as there isnt the crazy bloodletting sword slashing mayhem going on. I would like to leave ranged extreme kills out because their isnt much to happen when a unit gets shot, it just falls to the ground. Maybe sniper rifles could blow up heads tho. :err:

[firestorm]

am i the first one to think of what a tank that got hit by a rending shot would look like?

[classic77]

I can't believe I forgot: rail guns. They are NOTHING like Relic makes them out to be. They fire a small shell at incredible speed and whatever it hits goes splat. There's a little story in the Tau codex about a tank (I think it's a Leman Russ) that gets hit by a rail gun. It doesn't to any major structural damage, just two small holes where it entered and left. However, it travelled as such high speed that everything inside it that wasn't bolted down was pulled through the second hole. That hole was maybe an inch wide. All that was left of the crew was a bloody trail of gore about ten feet away from the tank. If Relic includes that, I can die happy.

So much wrong with that from a kinetics perspective, lol.

Sounds cool though.

I like the idea of more detailed and specific reactions to weapons, not neccessarily sync kills, but, flames if burned, vaporized limbs by lasguns, severed limbs by shurikens etc.

[AntiCommie]

Anyone play Fallout 1 or 2? Remember those brutal kills they had?

I could definately see some extreme death in DOW like that. Imagine a heavy bolter holding a guy up with a stream of bullets, or a sniper blowing someones head off, or someone cut in half by a laser blast.

As many synch kills as DOW had for CC, I'm surprised you dont see more of these kind of things already.

[Zaljin]

At first I was thinking ranged sync kills wtf? But I would like, as people mentioned, have deaths related to way they died. Sniper blows off head, bolter round explodes inside target. Flamer deaths, plasma and melta weapons actually melting the enemy. Umm... what else, well you get the idea.

[creepiest dani]

@Panama

I don't think ranged extreme kills would have the same impact as a cc extreme kill as there isnt the crazy bloodletting sword slashing mayhem going on. I would like to leave ranged extreme kills out because their isnt much to happen when a unit gets shot, it just falls to the ground. Maybe sniper rifles could blow up heads tho.
Not much happens when a unit gets shot with small caliber ammunition, true. The higher the caliber however, the more "extreme" the effect. Considering the fact that all bolt weapons from the Space Marine arsenal have explosive payload, I'd say their effect should be pretty "extreme" (try to imagine the effect of Heavy Bolter 1.00 caliber rounds). Not to mention that bolt ammunition comes in several different flavours, such as the Inferno Bolts that are designed to immolate their targets and destroy them with superheated chemical fire, or the Metal Storm Frag Shells that detonate before impact and spray shrapnel, shredding their victims. Then there are all the "exotic" weapons: the Lasguns that fire a focused laser beam, powerful enough to remove an unarmoured human limb in a single blast, the Plasma Weapons (plasma is described as being a "miniature sun"), the Tyranid weapons with their crazy living ammunition, the Eldar Wraith Cannons and D-Cannons, the Rail Guns, which were excellently described by HiveMind in previous posts, the Eldar guns that shoot razor sharp rounded shurikens, and so on. I actually believe death animations for ranged weapons can have just as much "impact" as melee sync kills... if done well.

[ImmortalChaos]

I'd love to see small-fry infantry getting hit by lascannons leaving nothing but smokin' boots.

[100thlurker]

Basically, what everyone is calling for is not so much a synch kill as a death animation related to the weapon that killed it.

A suitably awesome death, of course.

[creepiest dani]

One thing I hated about DoW was the fact that projectiles, while great looking, did not seem to connect with those fired at. They did not even give the feel of missing their targets, due to lack of accuracy. I want to see the impact, I want to hear the impact, even when projectiles are completely ineffective against the targets (I'm speaking of certain kinds of projectiles, evidently). I want to see sparks flying when projectiles bounce against the armour of Space Marines, I want to see bolt rounds biting from the flesh of victims, sending blood and bits of flesh flying in all directions after exploding inside. I have yet to see a game that does it right.

[ErichTheGraham]

As with most of the threads on DoW2, my response to this one is, "fucking play CoH already. It's already in the damn engine." When a sniper snipes you in CoH, dude's helmet flies off as he falls to the ground and the rest of the squad jumps into cover while panicking (not sure that's a word but whatever). When you throw a grenade in a trench, dudes will come flying out of it when it explodes. Flamers make dudes run around screaming. When an arty shell lands, meaty chunks go flying everywhere. Obviously, it will take a lot of work making it work for the MANY different types of weapon from W40k, but they pretty much HAVE to do it. It's okay to doubt if you want, but I am certain this WILL be a feature, at least in a sense.

It would be pretty awesome if rail guns left useless hulks, though. One thing CoH DOESN'T do is have different types of exploded husks depending on what a tank was hit with. I don't know whether or not it could be implemented, but that would be pretty sweet.

Oh and btw, shots are animated in CoH so that you can see the bullets hitting the ground or whatever, so count that in, too.

[akuma85]

CoH is a great game, but some of us just can't run it well enough. It will be one of the first game I'll buy when I upgrade my PC.

I've played it once, and it just gave great hopes for dow2.

[Blackheart]

you also see bullets ricocheting off of armor as well.

[ImmortalChaos]

We could see bullets ricocheting off armor in the recent trailer video, so I think it's safe to say that that made it in.

[creepiest dani]

As with most of the threads on DoW2, my response to this one is, "fucking play CoH already. It's already in the damn engine."
I mean to, but unfortunately my computer can't handle it yet. This (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/174004.html) little gameplay movie from CoH however has left me very unimpressed. As concerns the effect of weapons I mean, although the accuracy and range of the weapons I also found dubious. The bridge seems to be offering cover when it shouldn't, judging by how the infantry just doesn't seem to die (the armoured vehicle should cut them down in an instant). And why can't the bridge be destroyed when it seems structurally weak? Why do tank shells send just one or two soldiers flying when exploding in their midst (explosions should affect an area, not just those low on life), and where are the "meaty chunks flying everywhere" (all I see is some dull "ragdolling")? I'll just have to look into it some more I guess, to see with my own eyes.

[Blackheart]

Not all tanks in coH have anti-infantry weapons. Immagine a lascannon shot-- no splash damage, and only those infantry closest would move away out of reflex.

[creepiest dani]

@Blackheart

Not all tanks in coH have anti-infantry weapons. Immagine a lascannon shot-- no splash damage, and only those infantry closest would move away out of reflex.

Have you seen that little movie (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/174004.html)? The shells of the tank make a pretty big explosion which does send soldiers flying, but only one or two at a time.

[Blackheart]

I have played the game itself. Extensively, one might say.

[Sturmtruppen]

AP rounds generally dont sent people flying, its like a lump of metal... try Faces of War, it has the most realistic projectile physics ive seen for both small arms and big guns...

also, that movie doesnt mean a thing, cuz there was a bug with commando smoke

[creepiest dani]

Did I say anything about AP rounds? I was referring to explosions.

Are you really saying that bug with "commando smoke" negates all my complaints?

This little gameplay movie from CoH however has left me very unimpressed. As concerns the effect of weapons I mean, although the accuracy and range of the weapons I also found dubious. The bridge seems to be offering cover when it shouldn't, judging by how the infantry just doesn't seem to die (the armoured vehicle should cut them down in an instant). And why can't the bridge be destroyed when it seems structurally weak? Why do tank shells send just one or two soldiers flying when exploding in their midst (explosions should affect an area, not just those low on life), and where are the "meaty chunks flying everywhere" (all I see is some dull "ragdolling")?
Are you saying that little movie does not reflect the game at all?

[Noble]

This thread has gotten totally off topic. Discussions of CoH should go in the CoH fora. If you guys really want to talk about the physics engine and how rag-dolls and gibs will be implemented I suggest making a thread about that. Though I'm not sure how much discussion value there really is in that topic.

Thread locked.