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Leathery Apron
6th Jun 08, 11:42 AM
Not armor as in, "I WEAR THE EMPEROR'S SHIELD!"

But ARMOR, big, hulking, treaded, legged, explosive armor! The kind that goes BOOM! when hit by enough rockets or a Lascannon. The sort that crushes little Orkz under them as they steam ahead at full speed. Cascading over debris and crushing defenses beneath them like an enraged rhino that cannot turn on a dime to save it's life. We know this armor, it's the stuff we're fond of from the original DoW. Most fond, indeed, when you send a whole division of tanks or walkers crashing right into the enemies ranks; sowing disarray and chaos. Purging the unclean, spreading the filth, assimilating the weak, you get the picture.

Yet despite all this, will we be at a loss?

Has Relic decided it is going to castrate one of the few things that add variety amongst the unit types? Because when you get down to it, you really only have Infantry and Armor. No matter what little cliques they fall into, quirks that each has, or weapons that they kill with: it is still just Infantry. Now I am not saying that these units are boring by any means, but you've seen the teaser. Who the hell doesn't want a few Dreadnoughts cutting a swathe in a mass of greenskins? Or inversely; a Killa Kan doing the same to Space Marines. These units present certain obstacles that neither large infantry units (Ork Warboss, Force Commander, etc.) or regular infantry can afford.

In essence, I guess I am just saying that I hope Relic doesn't count Armor out of Single Player and especially not Multiplayer. On a smaller and potentially more of a victory clinching role? Sure, absolutely, because it gets annoying when Eldar roll over you with mass amounts of their specialized vehicles. Personally, I can easily imagine six squads of Marines fighting one Soul Grinder becoming extremely Epic very quickly. That's if the monstrous unit is even included to begin with.

Imperial Dane
6th Jun 08, 11:48 AM
So your question is if tanks and such won't be in ? Well looking at screenshots we have seen predators, indeed several predators, and don't forget the prominent part that Dreadnoughts have shown. And i recall talk about an Ork Trukk, so i would assume that tanks are in, otherwise things would be dull.

Leathery Apron
6th Jun 08, 11:59 AM
Those shots of the Predators and the Trukk were from the Single Player, right? So far as I know anyway.

I'd hate to go out on a limb here and say that those were mission specific units that may have just showed up to showcase. It is blatantly obvious that it is there, I was more or less saying it would be a bad idea to remove it from the game to the point where we are gifted maybe one or two pieces of armor in the general scheme of things. I'd like to see the numbers reduced to fit the scope of the game, but not to the point where their presence is almost pointless. A few pieces of armor can only get so far, especially when their cover abilities are drastically reduced from that of infantry. From what we've also seen is that they are bullet magnets; which is helpful to an extent. It's nice to have the opposition shoot at something else for a change, but when their combined fire destroys it due to lack of cover and slow RoF... I just can't see a reason to have the beast of burden around.

Noir
6th Jun 08, 12:05 PM
Where the hell are you getting this idea from?

Infidelicious
6th Jun 08, 12:24 PM
Personally I think armor is going to work like this:

Lascannons / Cannon are going to be VERY effective* at killing enemy infantry, and destroying cover.

*(However, I think that they will have relatively reduced accuracy against Infantry; So if something DOES get hit, it dies instantly )

Tanks will provide cover to infantry standing behind it. That in and of itself makes them amazing, It's like having a heavily armed and armored sandbag wall, that can move.

Tanks secondary armament IE: Bolters, flamers etc will be at least as effective as the infantry carried versions. That in and of itself means a tank has as much or more firepower than a squad.

If they made the vehicles so you could customize their weapons load out, and seeing how they are allowing you to do that to a greater extent with everything else... I am hoping that the dow 1.0 upgrade system for Tanks is reimplemented, I miss choosing between bolters autocannon and lascannon.

Being able to choose what your vehicle brings to the party will be amazing. Do I want 4 lascannon to annihilate cover, and any vehicle I come across? or do I want to go AC/HB and make any infantry I run into cry. Or do I want a mix of both? It adds depth, and makes vehicles more effective, and if vehicles are more effective then you won't need more than 1 or 2.

Imperial Dane
6th Jun 08, 12:45 PM
Well it won't be a reduced hit like in most rts games, i mean if it is like CoH, they can be countered infantry, it's all in how you use it. I mean if you send in a tank alone, you might just end up losing it very quickly...

But i think Noir's question also has some merit.

Blackheart
6th Jun 08, 3:32 PM
Also keep in mind, that in the Essence Engine, tanks can fire at multiple targets at a time. In CoH, a Sherman Tank's machinegun will aim at infantry, while its cannon will aim at armor, if both are present. You can order the Sherman to fire on the tank, but the machinegun will still fire on infantry, and you can order the tank to fire on the infantry, and it will focus on the infantry-- because its machinegun won't ever penetrate or do damage to tanks. And yes, it supports limited arcs of fire as well, and destroyed weapons-- so it's possible that you'll lose one sponsin and then turn your tank so that the other sponson can be used more effectively

TheLoneKnight
6th Jun 08, 4:01 PM
I'm with Noir on this one; where are you getting the impression that vehicles are not in standard Dawn of War 2 combat? We've seen them in screenshots, seen them fighting and heard in interviews about how awesome they are at doing things like wrecking buildings. Which part of this leads you to believe that it won't be in normal skirmishes?

Honestly, why the heck would they skin, give vocals to and create models for detailed vehicles (not to mention vehicle husks) to units they're only using in the campaign?

Croaxleigh
6th Jun 08, 4:36 PM
It's been stated already that tanks, etc., are definitely in-game, but they're not going to be common. Accordingly, their power level will be increased from DoW.

Pvt. Griffen
7th Jun 08, 2:50 AM
Accordingly, their power level will be increased from DoW.

Thank goodness.

Noir
7th Jun 08, 7:31 AM
The fact that most of the heavier armored vehicles will be almost assuredly impervious to small arms is a boost in of itself.

Blackheart
7th Jun 08, 8:31 AM
Yeah. You'll see small-arms fire ricochet off the armor, as some guy with a german accent says "hahah, they're scratching your paintjob, helmut!"

Okay, sorry for the CoH reference again.