bazookas

[THE_SMASHER]

y have they been further nerfed? theyre already useless! y nerf em more. WTF! if theyre gonna be nerfed so bad, at least let us choose to not equip rangers with them (i never pick up bazookas when they drop them. the extra smg is way better).

btw, im a heavy wehrmact and pe player.

[shadowolfe]

Well I guess they were nerfed against halftracks because of how good they were

against PE, rangers could chew up all their infantry and all their light vehicles, they

could rip through half of the entire PE army! I know that Rangers are expensive

multipurpose units, but this is just so they arn't spammed so much against the PE, or

at least I *think* that is why they nerfed it... Just remember that they only nerfed

them really against halftracks, and since they are already easy to destroy, it should not be

too much of a nerf, right?


Shadowolfe :corn:

[Cross]

The weaker you make a unit the more people spam them cause they need more. For example you always see larger ranger blobs than airborne.

[shadowolfe]

Well, I would disagree on that because the better you make a

unit and the more purposes it serves the more power one would

have if they had more of the unit, it is hard to spam an

expensive unit that doesn't do much. Also airborne are weaker in

EVERY way except AT than rangers, so by your logic airborne

blobs should be bigger because they are weaker. Anyway my

point is that people spam units that are the best because it

gives them the best chance of winning, why would one spam

weak units if they could spam better more powerful units (right

now I am confusing myself, time to make a new paragraph!

:awesome: )



OK in short

1. disagree with your argument that people spam weaker units,
because that wouldn't make sense when you could spam
powerful ones. More powerful units = better to spam them =
more people spam them.

2. People don't spam airborne a lot because it is not efficient to
spam airborne because they are a more balanced unit, rangers
on the other hand many consider to be unbalanced because of
the many things they can do with relative ease and therefor are
spammed more often.


Sorry its getting late and I'm starting to loose my mind. :crazy:
Shadowolfe

[Monkeypoop]

yea that wouldnt make sense because by that logic then people would spam jeeps a lot cause jeeps are weak...

[sighman]

- US Bazooka damage modifier reduced vs Wehrmacht Halftracks, 234 Armoured cars, M8 Greyhounds, US M3 Halftracks from 1.2/1.25 to 1.
- US Bazooka movement accuracy modifier is reduced from .8 to .75 vs light armoured vehicles.

The former was done so as to make Puma rush actually effective against Americans who stuck around in t1 for too long. I do disagree with the 2nd effect though

[THE_SMASHER]

actually, people DO spam jeeps.

[shadowolfe]

@sighman, interesting didn't know for sure why they did that, thanks for the info!

@THE_SMASHER, if your not joking I implore you to take up stand up comedy, because
its funny, if its a joke.... :-\

On a serious note, if your not joking, I have NEVER seen any mid-to-upper level spam jeeps, ever, EVER! :Skull:

Shadowolfe :rofl:

[yetanotherplayer]

@ THE SMASHER: Successfully?

[THE_SMASHER]

now i didnt say they were sucessful now did i (although on EiR they can be)

[sighman]

@sighman, interesting didn't know for sure why they did that, thanks for the info!

I'm just assuming this. Don't take it as a sure sign though.

[shadowolfe]

Ok then, seemed just as if not more logical than my idea, maybe its a combination? Well

whatever.... Relic will do what it wants to do, we are but pawns in a giant scheme of...

DAMMIT I CANT THINK OF ANYTHING... wait, wait, nope nothing. :lol:


Shadowolfe :hippy:

[Lunar100]

Maybe Relic finally decided Rangers shouldn't be the end all of everything and are trying to promote more combined arms? I can't tell you how irritating it is to face Ranger spam that eats up all your infantry along with any light vehicles too slow to get away from Fired Up Rangers.

[TNT]

Why nerf ranger zooks when armored cars already make americans explode with a glance?

[Melonplant]

Ranger spam is easy to beat. They cost so god damn much to reinforce.

It's quite enjoyable to beat them.

[nfoo]

Nerf Ranger's Bazooka, fine:
BUT Please, for the love of holy something: start to do something about the US vs. PE matchup. Rangers won't help you much against AC to P4 rush and spam, which seems to be the only things to be played by PE, because of the awesome - sarcastic - faction balance.

US is the 1vs1 underdog and playing against PE is an uphill clusterfu**.

[Splitmonkey]

I think rangers made the flammentrack extinct
I like it more vehicles in games is always a good thing!

[AsI-IGear]

Hehe melonplant so true :) nottin is more fun then to have your 2 panzer 4 Havea slaugther fest against ranger blober nabs

[LawrenceofArabi]

I think stickies made the flammentrack extinct

Correction


It really just looks like a puma buff to me, and im ok with that.

[sgb]

I don't really have a problem with these changes, though I do think Relic is nerfing the wrong aspect of Rangers. 2.301 balance Rangers are too anti-everything. Other than skirted heavy tanks, no vehicle can stand up to a ranger blob for long. This would be fine if, like airborne, they weren't cost effective vs. infantry. But smgs own anything weaker than vetted MP44 storms or KCH. Oh, and you can't suppress them or run away from them without using a full retreat. In 2v2s, it's not unusual to see US players tech to a supply yard, then stop. All their fuel goes to supply upgrades, and let artillery and British 17s take care of anything the Rangers can't. Sure, this won't work on all maps, the but fact that it works at all is a problem.

SOMETHING had to go here, and it seems like Relic chose to nerf their AV power. This will be fine if the next patch does something about AT gun builld time and TD units to promote combined arms once again.

[Tseng_Fox]

BUT Please, for the love of holy something: start to do something about the US vs. PE matchup. Rangers won't help you much against AC to P4 rush and spam, which seems to be the only things to be played by PE, because of the awesome - sarcastic - faction balance.

It'll only get fixed once Muntions HT and Vampire HT's are scrapped and replaced with something else OR if they get new roles and buffs.

Because of these redundent units PE is forced to only be able to do 'rush' or blob strats.

In my PE versus US matches, Rangers in the last patch just made me want to spam Panzer IV's and Armoured Cars even more since they invalidated every HT and scout cars.

[Heroin]

Well with the SR nerf maybe well see the good old infantry company and maybe the armor company more often back in action.

But to tell the truth i really dont understand the logic behind the bazooka nerf. I mean the bazooka is an AT weapon so it should do some decent AT dmg. When i played inf company and saw a hetzer on the field i rarely could kill it with bazookas unless i had 3-4 ranger squads.

IMO the ranger blob problem should be solved differently then make 2 out of 6 units in a ranger squad useless. It not fair to have an expensive allround unit which is a cp call-in unit be nerfed as like it doesnt exist. Remember that you have to spent 100mu to make them decent AI troops and that they frequently drop their bazookas which are rarely picked up by the enemy because of their poor aim/hit ensurance even in 2.3XX which is enough prove of the bazookas strange AT behavior.

[sighman]

Rangers in the last patch just made me want to spam Panzer IV's and Armoured Cars even more since they invalidated every HT and scout cars.

They do not invalidate HTs if the HTS are actually supported. For once, maybe for once you would actually use the g43 SV ability to slow down the fire up squad to save it huh?

RR paratroopers on the other hand are the thing that needed a nerf because they could easily take out these units from RANGE.

[drChengele]

Actually, if I read the patchlog correctly, the only significant nerf for zooks is versus Wehrmacht. The only change pertaining to the PE is a 5% reduction in accuracy versus moving vehicles, which I don't think will make too much of an impact. I think changes versus Wehrmacht do not hurt the game's balance because they will encourage usage of Pumas and Wehr's halftracks versus the US (even a hopelessly outteched US player didn't need to fear a Puma rush because he could always call in Rangers).

However, we must never forget that Rangers are a company-specific unit and that US should, in a standard matchup, be able to fend off PE Armored Cars and Panzer IVs without resorting to infantry call-ins to save their hides.

[zzSleeper]

It'll only get fixed once Muntions HT and Vampire HT's are scrapped and replaced with something else OR if they get new roles and buffs.

Because of these redundent units PE is forced to only be able to do 'rush' or blob strats.


We've had this discussion before, and you refused to answer.

PE has 2+ more units than everyone else, so what if they're useless? If I added 10 more units to the US barracks but made them all useless you would say US needs huge buffs because of those 10 useless units?

Why does it matter that the munitions and vampire HTs are useless? PE has MORE units, and their core units that can be compared with other faction's units are just as good if not outright superior. What if the munitions and vampire HT got removed? According to your logic PE would suddenly become overpowered?

[TNT]

This absolutely needs to accompany a boost in American armor. Without effective rangers for AT, PE vs US matchups will be even more lopsided.

Remove the marder bonus against US armor and make it so P4 IS tanks (ANTI-INFANTRY, REMEMBER) don't beat M10s 1-on-1. Currently you rarely see American heavy armor on the field, and for good reason. Marders, Hetzers, and Panzershreks are still extremely effective against Americans even without the bonus. Maybe give the bonus back when the AP ability is unlocked for TD.