[2.403] Shared Resources

[PeterPeterson1]

After some matches i welcome all the changes. Especially in 4v4, the nerfs decrease the Mates (especially the US) fuel and muni income very well.

But in 2v2 the problem with the early, early m8 or early shermans is still not fixed.

The very fast forward HQ, wich acts like a free OP with instant high fuel or ammo income, is still a balance breaker.

My suggestion is following: (i wrote it in another thread, but i can't find it)

If a truck becomes locked down in on a 10+ Fuel sector the british should get an increased Fuelincome like he build an OP.
At the same time nothing changes for an US or British mate.
The US mate should be able to build an OP for himself if he needs more fuel fast.

But the main point: If any truck upgrades with secured resources all sectors covered by a truck acts like an OP for all mates. So the initial fuel boost get a delay.




But i want to thank you relic for all changes untill now. i think the only problem in this beta is the user number, but i think it increased with new maps.

[daroach1414]

This doesnt sound half bad.

[yetanotherplayer]

That sounds good to me, so long as the OP gives the bonus to every team member (except the British player with the truck on it, of course) like any other.

[Tseng_Fox]

Sounds fair.

[kommodore]

Come on in a 4v4 would spending an extra 200mp that only 1 person out of 4 had to spend really change the game that much? Rails and metal is a prime example the map usualy ends up with a brit on the medium fuel on one end and the axis with the other medium fuel on the other, which I usualy just OP myself as axis, I never thought that that 200mp was gamebreaking or unfair, the sides just work differently.

[Q77]

You cant balance coh for 4v4's. He's talking about 2v2's. 4v4's are just stalemates/arty games. The main focus is 1v1 and 2v2 for balance.

[Leobardis]

soo... you want ops to only work for the guy who builds them?

[karvajalka]

Fair enough, as long as it works the same for wehr and PE too.

[Pankake]

If this were to happen, then The US player should be able to put up an OP on the same point that the Brit has secured and each get their resources increased accordingly.

[Tseng_Fox]

why? not happy that brits have the most well-defended OP's?

[elite]

PE has no ability to make OPs. And don't come with Vampire, because that's a shit now. Maybe if it could cloak...

[Panzer Jager]

Scout Car Lockdown = OP.

[TheUnknown]

If this were to happen, then The US player should be able to put up an OP on the same point that the Brit has secured and each get their resources increased accordingly.
US can already build a OP on a Brit OPed sector, its just that nobody does it cause it doesnt have a effect now.

[Maniac]

PE has no ability to make OPs. And don't come with Vampire, because that's a shit now...



Sry, but what you're saying there? PE got Scout Cars, with Logistic upgrade they can have the only OP that can defend itself. With pretty good supression, I need to add.

[yetanotherplayer]

Let me see if I can lay this out explicitly, as there seems to be a little bit of confusion here:

1. If a British player places his truck on a point, he receives bonus income, but that income is not distributed to his teammates.
2. If a US player OPs the point, all allied players except the British player with the truck on it receive a corresponding resource increase. Excepting secured resourcing upgrades or the RSE improved trucks, all players would be at this point receiving equal resources from the point in question.

Is this correct?

[ErichTheGraham]

Sounds like the idea he is going for more or less. And I think that might work out pretty good.

[sgb]

This sounds fair to me, except the British secure resourcing should apply to teammates again. You have to pay for it like an OP, so where's the problem? Unfortunately, it seems like Relic has already chosen another direction with this bizarre 1% nerf. So 30 fuel income will become 29.7? Okay, I don't see how that fixes the truck on a medium point giving the team +8 income a minute into the game. Sorry, 7.92 now.

[ZeroTwo]

one teammate spending 200 mp to be able to spread the resources of an objective point that a brit is sitting on to everyone else like a regular OP?

Yeah. Sold. Signed. Whatever.

I don't mean that it would share the increased brit resourcing, just act like a normal op any other op would be.

[Pyro Paul]

i think it would be easier for the First HQ truck to have No resource op ability from the get go. the HQ truck can only Lock down resources but locking it down only prevents the enemy from capturing it. it still only provides the base resource.

the British player must pay 100-200 MP in order to upgrade this truck to gain the resource OP.

this upgrade would Only apply to the HQ truck. Period.
the Field support and Armor support trucks would automatically come out with free OP abilities from the start, just like they do right now.


this is to prevent any faction from having an automatic and free OP from the start of the game.

[Killer Of Many]

Pyro I like that idea, this current one is alright but seems kind of wasteful in a logical way . Yes yes balance first ALWAYS but the point is secured with a truck like a scout car secures a point why would I put a weird sandbag box on it too? An upgrade to the truck seems the best of both worlds in that the other trucks op others right away but no one has a first second bonus. And even if they do get the upgrade immediately it'll still be the same res the axis can spend on a point. But yeah anything other than this peculiar 1-3% nerf for allied res sharing, just... odd

[PeterPeterson1]

Let me see if I can lay this out explicitly, as there seems to be a little bit of confusion here:

1. If a British player places his truck on a point, he receives bonus income, but that income is not distributed to his teammates.
2. If a US player OPs the point, all allied players except the British player with the truck on it receive a corresponding resource increase. Excepting secured resourcing upgrades or the RSE improved trucks, all players would be at this point receiving equal resources from the point in question.

Is this correct?

Yep, thats the way i thought about it. I made a picture.



i think it would be easier for the First HQ truck to have No resource op ability from the get go. the HQ truck can only Lock down resources but locking it down only prevents the enemy from capturing it. it still only provides the base resource.

the British player must pay 100-200 MP in order to upgrade this truck to gain the resource OP.

this upgrade would Only apply to the HQ truck. Period.
the Field support and Armor support trucks would automatically come out with free OP abilities from the start, just like they do right now.


this is to prevent any faction from having an automatic and free OP from the start of the game.

That is not a bad idea, but i think it would be bad for brits in 1vs1. And i only want to nerf shared res. and not the british player.

[Pankake]

US can already build a OP on a Brit OPed sector, its just that nobody does it cause it doesnt have a effect now.

Which is my point exactly.

And just to let you know, PeterPeterson1, an OP on a medium resource point brings it from +10 to +16.


But yeah anything other than this peculiar 1-3% nerf for allied res sharing, just... odd

And unfair.. if you ask me.

[ServerToni]

this needs a special way for team games.

IF Brts & Brits play it shouldn't be changed. But if a Brit player has a US mate it should:

Give the brits a ressource Flatrate for the trucks like +3 or +4 (5+3, 10+3, 16+3) and if a US player is building a OP the right ammount should be given. (5+3, 10+6, 16+8). So the fast-free-lockdown is avoided.
Later, by upgrading the trucks just give the maximum ressources like WM or US get. And you're done. In 1on1 is balanced, because brits are designed to have less sectors and should get this huge ammount of ressourced. Also because they can't build more than 3 OPs. But in 2on2 it's unfair, because they have with an US-Player too much sectors ...

[PeterPeterson1]

And just to let you know, PeterPeterson1, an OP on a medium resource point brings it from +10 to +16.

Yeah i know someone will come with this. But i am not with numbers :wave: . It was an example.

I think double british isn't the problem in teamgames. There, not the fuel or the ammo is essential. The MP is the limitation. Only with allies in an 1:1 or 1:2 ratio (Brit:US) there is a problem with sharing resources.

And ATM the biggest problem in 2v2 isn't the sharing in mid and lategame. It sucks, yeah, but the biggest prob is the very early free OP for US mates. In the most games i never saw any point OPd by an US player. Only Trucks pushing the income, while on the axis side 3 points are OPd at least. This is 600MP - 660 MP and 105 ammo. This is obvious a flaw.

[Painmuffin]

In all honesty I fail to see the point here. Axis can create OP's that work just the same as a british truck.

Wehrmacht can use PE's base and their Forward healing stations to abandon the use of med packs, which allows them to spam even more panzerschrecks.

Panzer elite can have OP's that come and attack you, then go back and cap their point.

The list goes on, and having the British HQ as a free OP is just another way the factions are different.

[daroach1414]

100% agree painmuffin, but these guys wont quiet til the factions OPs are the same damn it. THE SAME!!

[Tseng_Fox]

Axis OP's cost 200 manpower which is very expensive considering the OP's can't move and can't do anything else (apart from Scout Cars, which are more expensive)

The free OP is only a problem in team games with an American player (mainly Airborne). It allows the american to cap most of the map and spam Strafing Runs as much as he wants.

If theres a way to prevent Strafing Runs/Off-map artillery being constantly called in because of free OP's on High Munitions points while still making them different to axis OP's then that would work too.

[Borrish]

So USA and Wehr have to pay 200MP for an OP, PE have to pay 220MP and 25 (i think) munitions because it can move, yet the British get a free OP that has a lot more HP, is immune to rifle fire and you can reinforce from? It's not even really a risk because a defended truck is pretty much impossible for an Axis team to kill unless they're a lot better. It might be fine in 1v1 but in 2v2 the USA faction is simply not designed for the level of increased resources the Brits give them. It is however unfortunate that they seem to be intent on removing Brit resource sharing completely rather then just tuning it to sensible levels.

For example, make secured resourcing give OPs to all 3 of your trucks. Then you could allow the RSE tree to share the increased resources to the USA so long as it's tuned to not give quite such a stupidly large resource boost. At least then you'd have to make a choice since you'd be sacrificing your own offensive power to give increased resources to your USA ally.

[Leobardis]

@ borrish.

Brits get THREE (count them: HQ Truck, Support Truck, Armor Truck = 3!!!!) Free ops.

Wehr, PE and americans get as many ops as there are points on the map!!! not limited to three.

combined with the fact that both wehr and PE have miniscule upkeep, Wehr 200 MP << American 200 MP and PE 220 MP 40 MU < American 200 MP.

Once I op as american/wehr? can't move it... it certainly can't defend itself either. Yet the PE one does, for a measily 20/40 extra.

yet the faction that gets 3 free ops that cannot defend themselves, you want to nerf.

secured resourcing already had a nerf. Now, instead of learning to deal with a brit and maybe going around them instead of beating your head on their brick wall, you want to nerf them.. lol at your diversity.

(not saying it is not a problem, I actually really like pyro paul's idea, but some of the arguments here read like whining, and not well thought out arguments like Peter/Pauls)

[Borrish]

Exactly, they get three free OPs. That's 600MP worth of OPs for nothing. That's also three reinforce points. Yeah sure i could go around OPing everything but then i'd get my arse handed to me because i wouldn't be able to afford any units. The PE one can BARELY defend itself. I'm pretty sure that riflemen in cover will beat it, so the only thing it defends agaisnt are engineers. I'd personally rather have an OP that didn't cost anything when compared to one that can possibly defeat a very weak infantry unit. And where exactly did i say that i face trucks head on? I would appreciate it if you would not try and put words in my mouth.

You're mistakenly judging me as an "axis fanboy". I actually play all 4 factions to exactly the same level. Do you know one thing i find when playing allies though? I can just choose airborne and spam strafing run. It's not at all hard to do.

Oh and i actually disagree with the secured resourcing nerf. I'd have rather they had kept the resource sharing and instead fixed the bug and tuned the resource bonus it gives to a more sensible level. Currently you can take a +5 munitions point and increase it to +24. That is a stupidly large level of resource increase. I don't even think that's including the RSE upgrade. As i said earlier, i'd rather they tuned the resource increase to be more fair rather then just removing it completely.

[PeterPeterson1]

C'mon guys. We don't need to rant.

I think we need a way British didn't get a nerf in 1vs1 and 2vs2 and US income becomes fixed in 2v2 in a way as the game is a double US game.

As i said, i like pyros idea, but this change comes as a nerf in 1vs1. Perhaps the 200MP cost isn't problematic but i don't want to change too much in one instance.

ATM the british truck locks down on a sector in 2v2 the allied player gets a boosted income, which he wouldn't get in a double US match. First he couldn't be there in the same time, cause he needs to cap straight to the sector to be connected and then, secondly, he needs time and MP to build the OP, which limits one player unit production for nearly one cal.30 or a riflemen squad.

Isn't it obvious that it isn't a nerf to take away this ability and that this could be seen as a fix.

Please think about it. How many OPd points do you have in the first 3 minutes if you play 2v2 in a situation with and without brits. Could you get an OPd point as axis or PE at the same time? Do you really go directly towards logistic and build no g43 squad to have enough ammo to op a point? I don't think so.

I am not talking about 4v4, it's all about 2v2AT. The first M8 against double US or a mixed team in beta 2v2 comes clearly earlier vs Brit US. I only want it equal.

[Leobardis]

@ Borrish - sorry, my opinion came off as a wee bit harsh and directed at you. only the first part was directed at you, not the rant-ish portion.

Everyone agrees that the shared resources are currently too high, but the way to lessen their severity is not to remove the sharing ability.

Less should be shared, because the brits have less capping power than wehr or PE. somehow that needs to be captured.

[Forrest]

Sounds like a good idea. But instead when a brit truck puts down on a point, the extra resources should come in over time. So after say every 30 seconds (a arbitrary number) it would get 1 extra of the thing. So it would go from 10 to 11 then 11 to 12 etc

[popej]

I don't see why this is neccessary at all. Shared RE bonus resources are being dealt with, why should allied resource sharing be altered any further?

If you want brits to be a walk over early game then I hope you have some suggestions for mid & late game improvement. Remember BC's are being hit hard, as are early emplacements.

[PeterPeterson1]

I don't know if you played some matches in the beta popej. I did and i can't see any changes in the early game. There the allies have the advantage in time and income. I only want a change that an US player gets the same attributes of res. income as if he playes with another US player and thats should be the same for a second british player.

It should be like 1v1 income + a us mate.

[LycosV]

Instead of messing with the allies resources more, would it be possible to make forward HQs lock points like the brit HQs do? You don't give the other teams a resource bonus for having the forward HQ there, just lock the point. Doing this would give all the other teams a way to secure the other half of the map when the brits lock down theirs.

[angriff36]

Gah this is not that damn hard I dont know why relic is making it so difficult.

Brits get all their bonuses.

No free op for teammates when a truck locks down a point.

Secured resourcing shares with teammates, TO A MAXIMUM OF WHAT A REGULAR OP WOULD GIVE. +10 becomes +18 for american, and +24 for the brit.

There, I fixed shared resourcing and didnt touch brit 1v1.

[PeterPeterson1]

Gah this is not that damn hard I dont know why relic is making it so difficult.

Brits get all their bonuses.

No free op for teammates when a truck locks down a point.

Secured resourcing shares with teammates, TO A MAXIMUM OF WHAT A REGULAR OP WOULD GIVE. +10 becomes +18 for american, and +24 for the brit.

There, I fixed shared resourcing and didnt touch brit 1v1.

Yep with an addition: 1 Sec res works as an OP on all truck sectors. And if an US mate needs his OP earlier he could build an OP for himself only providing the normal bonus to himself.

[Leobardis]

ops should either be share-able or not, brits should provide extra resources if ops are shared.

Angriff36's idea is the most reasonable. yes they are free, but they aren't crazily free. either the trucks share and secured rez does not, of teh trucks don't share and rescured rez shares all three to the original amount, and bonus to brits (it is 25 fuel ppl)