DoW2 is going to be released on the XBOX360?

[scoiatollo]

According to this source (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/w/w4kdow2/default.htm) Relic will release DoW 2 for the 360. Combine that with the recent announcement that DoW2 will use GfW and a rather dodgy reply from relic to my question regarding the 360 controller that's needed to be supported while using the GfW service (source (http://www.gamesforwindows.com/en-US/aboutgfw/Pages/GamesforWindows.aspx)) I think that we might face cross platform gaming. Anyone who knows what RTS games are like on consoles is well aware that this won't work out well if it really comes to games between the 360 and the PC without some adjustments on the PC side (whatever they may be).

So far we haven't heard anything on that subject from Relic so this is highly speculative.

Imo it's a rather bad move and lowers my expectations on DoW2 drastically. So what are your thoughts on this nightmare subject?

p.s. the previous discussion on that subject started here (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=198667&page=4&pp=15) at post #53

edit1: mac_bug links to the official DoW2 forum where Spengler said that DoW2 will be PC exclusive here (http://forums.relicnews.com/showpost.php?p=3099445&postcount=77)

edit3: Link to a translation of a german console magazine where a Relic official said it's possible that DoW and CoH will be released on the 360/ps3 (that interview was 2006) click (http://forums.relicnews.com/showpost.php?p=3099686&postcount=52)

edit4: solved Mysteries:

edit2: Thanks to Richdog for the following piece of information:



GS: Are you planning on bringing over any of the RPG elements, like unit customization, over to multiplayer?

MN: We can’t say too much about multiplayer gameplay just yet, but we're excited that Dawn of War II will offer free, fully functional, multiplayer gameplay using Games for Windows LIVE. From day one, achievements, TrueSkill multiplayer matchmaking, voice and text chat, a friends list that is consistent across both Windows and Xbox 360, and all other features of the Games for Windows LIVE service will be available free to all Dawn of War II players. Relic is excited to be partnering with Microsoft to join one of the largest multiplayer communities in the world and to be delivering an online experience that is second to none. We have some really awesome things planned and are creating a really unique experience that players are going to love. GS: Have you considered any co-op options for the campaign mode?

Only needed if the game supports it

[Tiresias]

Well as I mentioned before C&C3 while certainly not a good game survived having a 360 version without any changes at all to the pc version, just to establish that it is not in anyway neccessary for the pc version to be borked in any manner because of it. This is not to say it won't be, just to say it is not at all neccessarilly borked.

[Mac_Bug]

I r not EgonSpengler, but if EgonSpengler bothered to actually register and post on the official forums I assume he's authorized to release that information.

[Croaxleigh]

Mac Bug just posted this link in the other thread:
http://community.dawnofwar2.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=401

From a few posts down, posted by EgonSpengler (of Relic):

I'd say they are pretty slim. Dawn of War II will be a PC exclusive.

That still doesn't explain the Xbox 360 page, though.

Edit: Dang it, you edited and beat me to it. *laughs*

[Supernaut]

Even an idiot knows that RTS games just don't work on consoles and hopefully Relic aren't idiots, though if it was it could be Microsoft pushing THQ, thus Relic into producing more console games for them.

[scoiatollo]

Edited it twice already^^

But as Croax said that doesn't explain the page I linked above. Seems pretty official to me.

[fuggles]

I don't get why RTS doesn't work on consoles - those lazy gits just have to buy a mouse. Lord knows I had to buy a gamepad to cope with sloppy conversions.

[cfoley]

Although I agree RTS is better on a PC, my current hardware won't run DOW 2. I'm looking forward to the 360 version since it will let me play it. To be honest, I can't see any down side to a choice of platforms. If you don't want to play it on a 360, buy the PC version.

[Enosh]

well looks like it is coming to the xbox (giving that it is an official link), no idea why relic is still saying it doesn't...

[CrimsonAngel]

Okay this is my Prediction about this.

First the 360 version is under way and already in development and Mac Bugs "I'd say they are pretty slim. Dawn of War II will be a PC exclusive." statement makes it more congreat.

Any thing that is not a hard Denial or a HARD conformation is a we have not announced any thing, but we will.

So what dose this mean??
Well more or less that we are going to get a sub-par game compared to if it was a full PC exclusive.

Look at all the other GfW Live games

[scoiatollo]

The problem that I see is that the actual online player base of DoW was always pretty small. So with the release of DoW2 on GfW they could try to increase the player base by "forcing" PC and 360 users to play against each others and that won't end well for one of the sides.

And the answers we are getting so far while having some evidence that there will probably be a 360 version don't make me more confident tbh....

[Thuraash]

I don't see what the big deal with PC exclusivity is. This is Relic we're talking about, not EA or some other sellout crap like that. I trust them to deliver a great game, and will continue to do so till they give me reason not to. Just wait and see, and if, in the end, it turns out sour, then feel free to whine.

cfoley, I'm assuming you're at least somewhat technically inclined, what with being a super mod and all, but even some of my Electrical Engineering student buddies weren't really aware of this, so I'll put it out here anyway (I hope it's not too far off-topic):

I don't know how much is too much to spend on a computer for you, but even if you were to start from scratch, you can put together a very powerful gaming box for not a terribly huge amount of money, and it'll last a reasonably long while, with the occasional upgrade. I'm running Trackmania Nations: Forever, Oblivion and CoH on a box I bought about 4 years ago for US$800, and I threw in about US$300 in upgrades over the 4 years, and they all run just fine.

Unless Relic was being deceptive about DoW2 sharing reqs with CoH, it should run DoW2 as well (though I intend to spend around US$1200 between now and the winter holidays to put together a monster, so I can run it with all the eye-candy :biggrin:)

Anyway, if you (or anybody else) wants me to pull together a build-list or something, then I'll be more than happy to oblige. Just give PM me with your price-range and what sized monitor you want, along with any specific needs, and I'll be able to pull a complete list together for you pretty quickly. It's no big deal, I do this all the time. Just ask.

[timlxq]

I r not EgonSpengler, but if EgonSpengler bothered to actually register and post on the official forums I assume he's authorized to release that information.

So he is authorised to release the info that DoW 2 is going to be a PC exclusive Thanks Mac Bug.
See theres no more problem

[scoiatollo]

The problem is THIS (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/w/w4kdow2/default.htm) it's an official microsoft site so why should they announce DoW2 on the 360 if Relic says they won't do it? As I said in my initial post the move to GfW combined with that hard evidence does not really look good.

Also EgonSpengler's answer doesn't say it's not going to be released on the 360, he says the chances are slim (the exclusive part afterwards could mean the 360 users have to wait a while before they can lay their hands on it) that it will be released for the 360.

[Fightingfirst]

Well if it means more players online then it should be good. They should let the PS3 in as well and let every one play against each other, maybe a few problems starting out :).

[darkfox101]

If it goes on 360 I have my doubts on DoW2 then. Most RTS games released on consoles is just spam spam spam with little micro. I'll stick to coh then.

[bottenbreker]

i agree with darkfox. plz, somebody give me 1 good RTS game on a console. untill that time, i'll be playing CoH.

[scoiatollo]

@fightingfirst: Well I am for more players, but not at the cost of some interface changes that would be necessary to give console players even a slight chance to compete.

The way it looks atm is that Relic is going to release DoW2 on the 360 but don't want to make it official in order to keep us PC fans quiet. And thanks to a note on an official site (screw up of microsoft probably) we know about this plan.

Atm that's the best explanation I have for moving to GfW and not confirming or saying clearly that there will never be a console version of DoW2.

[Richdog]

Guys... http://e3.gamespot.com/story.html?sid=6193763&pid=945727&tag=top_stories%3Btitle%3B0&page=2


GS: Are you planning on bringing over any of the RPG elements, like unit customization, over to multiplayer?

MN: We can’t say too much about multiplayer gameplay just yet, but we're excited that Dawn of War II will offer free, fully functional, multiplayer gameplay using Games for Windows LIVE. From day one, achievements, TrueSkill multiplayer matchmaking, voice and text chat, a friends list that is consistent across both Windows and Xbox 360, and all other features of the Games for Windows LIVE service will be available free to all Dawn of War II players. Relic is excited to be partnering with Microsoft to join one of the largest multiplayer communities in the world and to be delivering an online experience that is second to none. We have some really awesome things planned and are creating a really unique experience that players are going to love. GS: Have you considered any co-op options for the campaign mode?

So yeah... looks like it may not be a PC exclusive after all.

Probably why it's been dumbed down to such a smaller scale. Aside from the lovely graphics and COH engine, i'm more worried about this game each and every time I see an article on it. I can't help but feel the experience of this game isn't going to be as satisfying as what the original DOW was, and I forsee a huge outcry and backlash from existing DOW fans...

[Akranadas]

Who really cares IF there is a 360 version of Dawn of War 2. I mean, who really does care? You don't have to buy it, Relic isn't forcing you to play the 360 version to be able to play DoW2.

You have a choice (if 360 version eventually comes out).

There is no written law that states, both console version = dumbed down PC versions. If you've ever played a PC and 360 version of a game you'll understand what I am talking about.

Bioshock rocked on both console and PC; two different control schemes, but the same game, through and through.
Call of Duty 4, again different way of controlling things, but exactly the same game.

Oh and to the above, Friends list as in I can talk to my mate whilst I am playing Dawn of War 2 on my PC while he is playing something like Halo 3 on his 360.

[bottenbreker]

I CARE! seriously, there's no such thing as a good console RTS game. and i highly doubt that Relic will create 2 entirely different games here.

Bioschock = FPS
CoD4 = FPS
DoW =/= FPS.

fps's work, RTS's don't.

[scoiatollo]

Oh great, I should have read the article more careful...

Gonna add that to the initial post...

edit: actually Bioshock had it's aiming issues imo. It was generally too slow for my taste...

[Tiresias]

bottenbreaker console rts suck becuase of the control scheme. That's not an issue on the pc version...

[Akranadas]

Who says Relic can't make a good console RTS? You?

Again, if you don't want to play it on a console; don't buy it. It's coming to PC anyway!

[bottenbreker]

bottenbreaker console rts suck becuase of the control scheme. That's not an issue on the pc version...

and why wouldtn't it affect the PC? if they're goign to make it compatible with 360, then we are pretty much screwed.


Who says Relic can't make a good console RTS?

i hope relic can, but i highly doubt it.

[scoiatollo]

Akrandas it's a matter of the way you control stuff. It's not possible on a controller so IF they enable cross platform playing (which is imo more than possible) they'll have to adjust the way PC users control the game in order to give console users a chance. That's what I'm scared about, not that the game will be released on the 360.

[Enosh]

Who really cares IF there is a 360 version of Dawn of War 2. I mean, who really does care? You don't have to buy it, Relic isn't forcing you to play the 360 version to be able to play DoW2.

it's not that much the posibility that it comes to the xbox360 that makes people angry, it's more the thing that relic is lying to us, they have been saying for the past 4 moths how proud they are that dow2 is a pc only game and how happy they are to make rts that is made for the pc and now we see there is probably also going to be a xbox version...

[Demonhorde]

So what honestly, aslong as the game is GOood i could care less if its ported. Aslong as the pc variant have solid controls.

[Akranadas]

Akrandas it's a matter of the way you control stuff. It's not possible on a controller so IF they enable cross platform playing (which is imo more than possible) they'll have to adjust the way PC users control the game in order to give console users a chance. That's what I'm scared about, not that the game will be released on the 360.

What are they going to do, make the mouse move at a sluggish speed? make it so you can only use 8 hotkeys. I mean listen to what your actually saying; it's quite stupid in that why would a Company make it's games actually worse?

I seriously doubt that there will be cross platform gaming; it's be tired and failed. Hence why there aren't more games that do that. Stop being so guarded about the possibility of more people getting the chance to get a taste of the game.

I actually bet that a good majority of players on the 360 will want to play it on the PC instead due to the tighter controls.



it's not that much the posibility that it comes to the xbox360 that makes people angry, it's more the thing that relic is lying to us, they have been saying for the past 4 moths how proud they are that dow2 is a pc only game and how happy they are to make rts that is made for the pc and now we see there is probably also going to be a xbox version...

Relic hasn't lied to us at all, people are jumping to massive conclusions based on 1 article.

[bottenbreker]

What are they going to do, make the mouse move at a sluggish speed? make it so you can only use 8 hotkeys. I mean listen to what your actually saying; it's quite stupid in that why would a Company make it's games actually worse?

it's not just about the control. it's about the interface aswell.

[Kapp'n]

Its going to be alright, trust Relic on this one ;)

The idea of PC vs 360 sounds good to me as most of my mates have 360's anyway.

[scoiatollo]

Have you played other converted console games? So far I haven't played a single one that wasn't inflicted in one way or another with its console background. you should read MAD's post (http://forums.relicnews.com/showpost.php?p=3099545&postcount=85) in the other thread, he pretty much sums up what my concerns are.

The problem with that article is however that it's released on an official microsoft page regarding the 360. If you can explain to me why they should announce DoW2 for the 360 while it's never going to happen I'll gladly go back to my work.

[Enosh]

Relic hasn't lied to us at all, people are jumping to massive conclusions based on 1 article.

and a web page, that was actualy puted up exactly 1 week ago (look at the post dates in the forum)

[Flagg]

There is an awful lot of PC snobbery sometimes, personally here ive seen people say Consoles do shitty FPS games, yeah well go play Bio Shock or COD4 on the 360 and then still say the same thing.
If anyone can make a good console RTS game, its relic, PC players get off your high horse and deal with it. Given the choice I will try and get the PC version, because of the flexibility of a mouse and keyboard, but if DOW2 demands a lot from your PC, then having a console version is a nice, cheaper option.

[Akranadas]

Have you played other converted console games? So far I haven't played a single one that wasn't inflicted in one way or another with its console background. you should read MAD's post in the other thread, he pretty much sums up what my concerns are.

The problem with that article is however that it's released on an official microsoft page regarding the 360. If you can explain to me why they should announce DoW2 for the 360 while it's never going to happen I'll gladly go back to my work.

well, I just looked through the 360's launch calendar (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/calendar/default.htm?WT.svl=nav) and can't seem to find where the person got the link for that page anywhere. It is quite possible that Microsoft has jumped the gun on this point.

Your entire argument is based on this 1 web page, where as developers have stated that it won't happen. If it was coming to Xbox 360, you bet your head that there would be a tone of articles written about it by 360 exclusive sits and gaming magazines. But as there is no new beyond that 1 page; then the evidence says otherwise.


it's not just about the control. it's about the interface aswell.

RTS games have a minimal interface at best. Look at Company of Heroes; with the tactical map and such you could play the entire game with a 360 controller. It's possible.

With intelligent unit AI that DoW2 is bringing, I can't see why it won't work on 360.

[bottenbreker]

RTS games have a minimal interface at best. Look at Company of Heroes; with the tactical map and such you could play the entire game with a 360 controller. It's possible.

hahahaha, ow wait.. you're serious? you actually think you could play CoH with a 360 controller? hell, you would be beaten by anybody who plays with keyboard and mouse. simply cause of MICRO is going to be hard with a controller.

[scoiatollo]

I don't wanna see this thread dragged into a console vs pc war so could we stop right here? I think no one is against a 360 version of the game, we are against the adjustments that would have to be made on the PC version in order to make a console version possible. If they are going to release a 360 version with no downsides for the PC version I couldn't be happier but if you look at the pieces we have it looks a little bit differently...

[Tiresias]

who cares? buy it for pc then I don't see the issue, if people want it for 360 let them buy it fo 360. Not only is it tenuous that it is coming out on 360 it is even more tenuous that the pc game will be affected at all.

[MAD]

It's not so much snobbery Flagg, as it is precedent of history with regards to the overall quality of games that are either ported from one platform to another or developed for multiple platforms. The only RTSs on a console that ever had a truly good control sceme was an old one with goblins or something on the N64, to my knowledge it was a N64 exclusive. Halo Wars from Ensemble may be able to pull off RTS on a console, but once again that is a result of it being designed for the console from the ground up, if it ever got ported to PC (they say it won't be), I am quite sure that issues would arrise from the different nature. Maybe if microsoft developed a Keyboard and Mouse specifically for the 360 and it was required for a game to work (think of the special controllers of Guitar Hereo and Rock Band) then the issues might not occur and a truly equal experience in a cross platform RTS could be born.

[scoiatollo]

@Akrandas: It's an official microsoft page and since we don't have a release date for the PC version why should the 360version have one?

Also the link Mac_Bug provided us, doesn't give us a clear answer. The original question was "What do you think the possibilties are that we could also see console versions of Dawn of War 2?", the answer of EgonSpengler "I'd say they are pretty slim. Dawn of War II will be a PC exclusive"
Pretty slim doesn't mean not at all. So while we have an official microsoft page that says DoW2 will be released for the 360 we have on the other hand relic who say two different things. First of all that the chances for a 360 version are slim (mind here, not that we will never see one!) and secondly that DoW2 will be PC exclusive. So which part is the right one?

What is more possible, that Relic screwed their communication with a dodgy statement or microsoft with their page that would make little sense if there hasn't at least been some talking between those two factions?

[CrimsonAngel]

Also there is something people should learn.

Games for Windows and Games for Windows LIVE is 2 different things.

One is a TAG with no real meaning and the ohter one means that Microsoft have a say about certain features in the game.

[Imperial Dane]

Hmm.. just noticed they even got a forum for Dawn of War 2 over at that xbox site..

[CrimsonAngel]

Aurgh the one Reason they have not said any thing is because they know it will look bad when they show that the 360 is there main platform.

Why else would they go with LIVE?

[bottenbreker]

yup, relic fucked over it's DoW community.

[Imperial Dane]

eh ? in any case if you have to look at it from the other side.. microsoft could definately have screwed up.. Otherwise i imagine there would have been some sort of announcement at their E3 conference yesterday.

[Ruined]

You're reading way too much into a staple comment on the functionality of GFW Live.

All the guys have done is quote the Microsoft description of the GFW Live system, meaning as part of it you can share friends lists between 360 and PC, not anything about a 360 Sku of the game.

[bottenbreker]

well, we'll probably soon now i guess, the community wants a non-dodgy answer relic!

[Tiresias]

they've given you non odgy answers and you are weaving crazy conspiracy theories out of it. Seriously revealing the 360 to be the main platform? Have you any basis at all for that?

You guys ar eonly screaming blue murder because you want to be outraged over something.

[Imperial Dane]

I'm gonna hafta to say it's probably remain xbox exclusive. otherwise microsoft would already be banging it's drums and stuff like that.

[bottenbreker]

Tiresias, where the hell did i ever stated that the 360 would be the main platform?

and the answers i've read from Relic are dodgy ones.

[Tiresias]

I was speaking you plural sorry, CrimsonAngel claimed that.

[scoiatollo]

Ok I found something else on a German console magazine page the translation:

Xbox 360 Porting possible (date: 30.07.2006, 15:07

Strategist be aware: As Ron Moravek to GamesIndustry.biz said, a Xnox 360-version of the RTS Dawn of War is possible - a porting of Company of Heroes as well.

THQ has looked at possibilities, how such a project could look like. In the mean time they are looking at the success of The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth 2. If that game is sold well, the chances of porting the former named games is very likely.
source (http://www.gamepro.de/news/spiele/xbox360/dawn_of_war/1296209/dawn_of_war.html)

[Octopus Rex]

Tir and Akra:

If a developer plans to release on two platforms, then they will bear that in mind when developing the game. If (big IF) they are developing for Xbox as well, then the reason why is money - which means they will certainly want it to sing on the Xbox too, otherwise there'd be no point right? There is no way that they'll develop the whole game expressly for PC, and then just "change the interface" for XBOX 360 - cause that'll work won't it!!??!

Also, cross-platform play is something that people are calling for more and more: better integration between the various platforms is the inevtiable direction for gaming. With this in mind, I don't think you can simply write of cross-platform as not happening. It seems a given than a PC player will crush an Xbox player - hot-keys will beat menus anyday, so if (another big IF) cross-platform play is intended then there will certainly be some compromises made to the game to accomodate this.

Overall: clarification would be nice, but we won't get any anytime soon I doubt.

[bottenbreker]

ok, np tiresias :) i agree with your comment though :)

[TheDeadlyShoe]

The ruffled feathers are both amusing and exasperating.

It's entirely possible that the Xbox site page is a mistake; the Xbox web guys drawing from the Live list and not noticing that it's a PC game. Seems more likely to me than Relic forgetting they're making a 360 version.

I'm sure this will be cleared up at E3, either way.

[Demonhorde]

Well same thing was said about crysis: warhead and its pc exlusive. So live doesnt have to mean its 360 automaticly.

[Tiresias]

If a developer plans to release on two platforms, then they will bear that in mind when developing the game. If (big IF) they are developing for Xbox as well, then the reason why is money - which means they will certainly want it to sing on the Xbox too, otherwise there'd be no point right? There is no way that they'll develop the whole game expressly for PC, and then just "change the interface" for XBOX 360 - cause that'll work won't it!!??!

Did it with command and conquer 3. Sold well. Why can't they make an interface that works for the console version? I don't get how that interacts with the pc version at all

[Octopus Rex]

There's no way of telling what design decisions (and why) were made before release to the PC version. There could've been mad crazy shit in the pipeline that they just knew wouldn't work when they got round to porting it over. You just don't know, however:

If the game is good (as in proper good) then all of this will be moot of course.

[Enosh]

The ruffled feathers are both amusing and exasperating.

It's entirely possible that the Xbox site page is a mistake; the Xbox web guys drawing from the Live list and not noticing that it's a PC game. Seems more likely to me than Relic forgetting they're making a 360 version.

I'm sure this will be cleared up at E3, either way.

that's actualy the most possible explanation so far

[Turin Turambar]

You're reading way too much into a staple comment on the functionality of GFW Live.

All the guys have done is quote the Microsoft description of the GFW Live system, meaning as part of it you can share friends lists between 360 and PC, not anything about a 360 Sku of the game.

At last, somone with a bit of brains (and knowledeable). That phrase is just describing a standard feature in the GfW LIVE system, shared friend list and achievements list with the 360 account. That doesn't mean that you will play DoW2 in the 360 becuase there will be a console version, it means you will the your achievemnts of a pc game while you are in the 360, because it's a common list.

[scoiatollo]

So the question is, why add your DoW2 achievements/friendlist to your 360 account (if you own one) where probably 90% of the users won't even know what DoW2 is? This would imo only make sense if you are going to release the game for the 360 as well.

Stupid question: Does GfWL support a single game that's not released on the 360?

[Bantam]

I agree with Ruined. I think you've misread the article and inferred that friends lists will be shared across PC and 360 for DoW2, when he is in fact solely talking about the functionality of Games for Windows Live.

If DoW2 comes out for the XBox I'll eat my testicles.

[scoiatollo]

I'll remind you of your post in a few month.

Have you read the other hints? If I were you I wouldn't risk my testicles ;)

[Richdog]

they've given you non odgy answers and you are weaving crazy conspiracy theories out of it. Seriously revealing the 360 to be the main platform? Have you any basis at all for that?

You guys ar eonly screaming blue murder because you want to be outraged over something.

Oh come on it's not going to be the "main" platform at all. The problem with people here is that there's a large contingent of brown-nosers who get up in arms as soon as you dare suggest Relic may do something wrong. Well sorry fanbuys but it happens...

The point is that history dictates that IF a cross-platform RTS is released, it suffers from having to be adapted at a fundamental level to a console platform. You lose some degree of complexity in making sure console players with their fumbly joypads can work something as precise as an RTS.

That's the point, so can people please start actually reading posts properly and responding with at least some degree of rationality.

If it doesn't get released then fine, we'll all breathe easier... but why make a section on an XBOX console forum for a game that's not going to be released on XBOX? Relic are a business. Consoles make money. Relic want to make money. Until this is confirmed or denied it's a very real worry.

[CrimsonAngel]

The Main platform thing is mine.
But i say again i have no conformation, but the signs are pointing in that Direction.

It makes sense from a business stand point to work on the 360 version first and then slowly build the PC version on top of the 360 version.
It is Cheaper to Port a crappy version to the PC of a 360 game then it is to port a Dumped down version of a PC game to a 360.

Now to wait for that Starforce is getting confirmed as anti Pirating measure.

[Kam!kazee]

Without reading the complete thread, you got that controller compatability completely wrong.


[...]Games for Windows titles that support controllers are also compatible with the Microsoft XBOX 360 controller for Windows[...]

To spell it out:
Games that use GfWL with native controller support can be used with the 360 controller.
NOT all GfWL games have to be compatible with the 360 controller, just all games that can be used with controllers can be used with the 360 controller.

Several interviews said it's PC exclusive, but that xbox page still irritates me. But still, why should the game be dumbed down, like some ppl fear? Last time I checked, FPS are way easier using mouse+keyboard.

[Bantam]

• 1 gamertag, 1 friends list, 1 list of achievements for your Windows PC & Xbox 360

The quote referring to a shared friends list over the 2 formats from E3 is practically verbatim of the description of the service from the Games for Windows LIVE website. I haven't really seen any other evidence except for a German magizine quote saying that it's possible to port CoH and DoW over to the 360 (in an interview from 2 years ago). That's pretty much a given for any game that uses DirectX and doesn't really point to DoW2 being ported over at all.
The XBox website is an oversite in my opinion. If they were going to develop DoW2 for the console I think they would have announced it at E3.

I think most reliable evidence about this issue is a post from a Relic employee saying that DoW2 will be PC only, so I reckon the Crown Jewels are still relatively safe. ;)

[scoiatollo]

KK, my bad sorry.

That leaves us with the maybe maybe not answer on the official forum and the xbox page.

The reason why I fear that it's dumbed down is that if you enable cross-platform gaming you have to do something for the 360 in order to let them compete with PC users.

edit: that's the same employee that said there's a pretty slim chance that it will be released ;) I'll see if I can find some recipes for testicles for you ;p

[timlxq]

Looks like things are leaning to DOW2 being on the XBOX so I'll post what I think of that.

I haven't played or seen any RTS game on a platform other than PC, and correct me if I am wrong, but the game would really suck if it was played on a 360 with only slightly more than 10 buttons to control your space marines, which should have limitless movements. Wheres the damn mouse?!
Hence I pray that relic did not do such a crazy thing to ruin our game.

[Octopus Rex]

Even if it's not cross-platform multiplayer (I think cross-platform MU is unlikely btw), they won't create two different player-experiences, one for Xbox and one for PC, they'll create a compromise between the two.

[Kam!kazee]

I don't know how C&C3 plays on the box, but the pc version plays just fine.

And cross plattform isn't a must.


Plus if the console people chose to buy RTS games on consoles, they deserve to be disadvantaged

[Bantam]

I think they're developing first and foremost for the PC, so I don't think we're going to see a dumbed down version of DoW lest they alienate the existing community.

Halo Wars seems to be approaching the console RTS in an interesting way - maybe they'll 'borrow' some of the control ideas from them if it ever gets ported over.

[timlxq]

@Octopus Rex
The compromise would mean that we would get a crappy game for the guys on the PC? That would really lower my hopes on the game.

Well if its not cross platform then there can be 2 versions and that would be perfect. A good version for the Com and a simplified version for the console. That helps

[Ruined]

I agree with Ruined. I think you've misread the article and inferred that friends lists will be shared across PC and 360 for DoW2, when he is in fact solely talking about the functionality of Games for Windows Live.

If DoW2 comes out for the XBox I'll eat my testicles.


Mark's quote on Gamespot is in line with the official positioning so it has to include the approved Microsoft description of the service.

One of the key features of GFW Live is you have one Gamertag which allows interaction between PC and 360 whether it be friends list, achievements or gameplay.

http://www.gamesforwindows.com/en-US/Live/Pages/AboutLive.aspx

This does not mean that every GFWL game is on both systems, it just means you get the same features

[Octopus Rex]

timlxq - yes you could have two versions if it's not cross-platform, but that costs more money. Developers will try and make essentially the game on all formats as close as possible, especially in terms of gameplay.

Bantam and others - stop focusing on the gamertag, the main reason people are wondering about an Xbox release is due to the Xbox game page linked. The Gamertag stuff was debunked a while ago.

[timlxq]

True, but it could be a possibility considering that relic and everyone is putting in a hell lot to make DOW 2 a success as compared to what they did with SS. And maybe they will hold the info about the XBOX version then tell it to people and release the XBOX version later than that of the PC version. That way, DOW2 holds the limelight for much longer and more people buy the game=more cash :D

[Bantam]

All I can assume is that the XBox site is a mistake. A Relic employee has already said [about the chances of Dawn of War 2 on a console], "I'd say they are pretty slim. Dawn of War II will be a PC exclusive."

Seems black and white to me.


Microsoft making an error is not exactly unheard of.

[Kam!kazee]

In the last few years, the word exclusive was used pretty loose. Like RE4 being GC exclusive and stuff or lots of Xbox "exclusives".

[Joker1661]

Microsoft making an error is not exactly unheard of. ever heard of vista? ha

if the release of an xbox version changes the PC version in any way, i will be very disappointed. If they have to make compromises between the xbox and pc version than that means inevitably that the pc version will be dumbed down... gay

if they absolutely have to release it for the xbox too then i hope they are two different games even tho that is even more unlikely. that would also mean keep the xbox players and PC players seperate to make sure puny console players dont get smashed!


furthermore even fps suffer that get ported over to the 360. look at CoD4 for instance, because of the small number of controls on the controller, the player is not able to lean around corners like u can in the PC conterpart. and thats and fps , imagine how much would have to be limited on an RTS! that game brings up my next point: patching. CoD4 has been patched a few times and progresses into a better game with every patch and new content released. patching an xbox game? forget it

now i love some xbox games such as halo but i'm kind of a firm believer that xbox games should stay on xbox and pc games should stay on the PC!

[Imperial Dane]

Just another bit from the DoW 2 forums:
http://community.dawnofwar2.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=418

Seems like they are quite intent on it being PC only.

[Cheesenium]

Hell no,DoW2 shouldnt be on a console.

I dont want to see this game got dumbed down just because it needs to work on a stupid console.

[runab0ut]

I do hope DoW2 really is a PC exclusive. (and it is - and it should stay that way, ever!) But I don't really care either much if they do get DoW2 to the console. If it is their choice, good for them and good for us (potentially to have more opponents online).

But the problem most PC/console porting are interfaces - and the "dumbing" down effect that goes with it. I don't want this game to have a 'consolified ease of use' feeling while playing on my PC. I want to tinker/mod/customize the hell outta it and make the console-ers be envy of having a game on a PC platform distinct.

[scoiatollo]

I wonder why it never occured EgonSpengler to comment what's actually shown on the link. I mean if that's not DoW2 for the 360 what the hell is it?! A mistake from one of microsofts admins? If so since this link has been at least posted 3 times why aren't they doing something against it? I doubt that microsoft doesn't provide 24/7 support.

I wish we would have Buggo to clarify this =( or at least a person that knows how to communicate...

[ÜberJumper]

scoiatollo:

Be patient, and don't be so angry.

Microsoft might have inadvertantly spilled the beans or simply made a mistake. There's lots of moving parts in software development and a LOT of email traffic, it can be easy to get lines crossed sometimes.

[Mac_Bug]

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/w/w4kdow2/default.htm

Oh look broken link

[scoiatollo]

I know, but it's just annoying that Relic seems to haven fallen again into a stage where they are not able to communicate =(

What makes me a little bit angry is that I had my first lectures in PR last semester and that's just painfull to watch from a professional point of view...

edit:
ahhh... That still doesn't explain what this was ;p

[Enosh]

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/w/w4kdow2/default.htm Oh look broken link

heh so MS fucked up, I fell kinda sad for all the people who have been so happy in the forum on that web page :D just wondering, did you even know about that web page till today? it's been up for about 1 week, since the first post on the forum are dated 07.08.2008

[ÜberJumper]

Mistake or inadertantly spilling the beans it is!

[scoiatollo]

So Mac_Bug are you the person we have to complain to about DoW2 since it suddenly appeared under your nick? at least I haven't seen it before

[Mac_Bug]

community.dawnofwar2.com ?

[Bantam]

And the Gonads of Destiny breathe a sigh of relief.

[Tempe]

That page says nothing about having Dow2 on the 360 and it's been said it won't be. You're just taking things out of context in an effort to find something half interesting. It's saying that you can basically use an x-box live-esque system.

[Thuraash]

Colonel, please specify which page you're talking about. The xbox page USED to say something before they took it down. It looks like Relic contacted them once the error was pointed out on the forums, and MS realized they'd just dropped the ball.

[Tempe]

In the interview with Dow2 guy. He mentions the 360 in a throw away comment, nothing more.

[Schmapdi]

Well, the page is missing now from the Xbox site, maybe it was an error and someone saw the windows live thing and thought it was an Xbox release.

Either way, being released on the Xbox 360 would make me extremely leery of Dawn of War 2. Mainly because I'd be worried they would be "dumbing down" features etc, in order to make the RTS experience work better on a console.

Ever since cross-platform development ruined Thief III and Deus Ex 2 I've wanted no part of it.

[Keef]

Its ok as long as its not a console to PC conversion. All console->PC games i played fail for me, annoyed by crappy controls! :rofl:

[Imperial Dane]

Well if the page is missing from the xbox site then it was an error without doubt.

[CrimsonAngel]

No all it really means is that it was not supposed to be announced yet.

[Noble]

That's not necessarily true CA. It could mean that it wasn't supposed to be announced yet, it could also mean that it was simply a page created in error. We simply don't know.

[Enosh]

No all it really means is that it was not supposed to be announced yet.

you are certanly one of the most pesemistic forum posters I have ever seen in my entire life

[RedXR]

If you've seen how many pc games have been butchered by console ports, you'd be just as much of a pessimist. I'm with CA on this, it probably just wasn't supposed to be announced yet.

[MAD]

Well it seems this issue is dealt with... at least for now. I am still rather worried about the whole marketplace bit though.

[Viper114]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

I don't want to see this on the 360. No way, forget it, don't even think about it. The last thing I want for DoW2 is a severe case of consolitis, bringing down the quality of the game that it's supposed to be for the ADHD-ridden toddlers who can't stand spending more than a few hours on the game before getting bored and going back to their idiotic online boomfests that start with either H, G or C. It unfortunately happened with Bioshock, and I don't want the same with DoW2. Besides, didn't the mediocrity of The Outfit (which I hate to say, but it is the truth) teach Relic anything?

[sporty]

Well, was it worth those 7 pages of hysteria? And did you really expect an official Relic/THQ response, declaring that everything was Microsoft's fault, when their cooperation/partnership is most likely still in the fledgling stages?

The forums related to Dawn of War II on XBox360 (now gone, too) existing for a whole week and barely being noticed is kinda funny.
Now, all that remains is the mystery whether this was an unintended, premature announcement or a simple mistake. Microsoft's official stance is to promote their console platform at the expense of PC games. Surely they expect something in return when making all the benefits of their online service available for a PC-exclusive title, and for free. Such a deal would certainly be made with the publisher THQ though, so even this doesn't necessarily have to affect Dawn of War II directly :)

[scoiatollo]

It rarely happens, but I agree with Bottenbreker since we still don't know why there was this official microsoft page. Or did I miss some piece of information Relic gave us?

[Imperial Dane]

@scoiatello: Relic haven't actually said anything about it, but merely kept repeating the statement that it's only for the PC:

[scoiatollo]

As said somewhere else in this thread, the word "exclusive" was a little bit stretched in the lately.

And tbh I can't figure out why someone at microsoft should put a DoW2 forum on tis page when there haven't been at least some talking between Relic/THQ and microsoft on that subject.

[Konstant1n]

PC gamers, my god, quite possibly the biggest elitests in the world.
If DoW 2 is comign to 360, then i'm getting in a heart beat before i consider the PC version. And guess what!?! I'll be playing it on a mouse and keyboard, because.... Drum roll please. Consoles have these magical things called... USB PORTS.

[Enosh]

well quoting yahtzhee:

"dirty console playing peasants don't ruin it for the glorius pc gaming master race" :D

I want a manual in dow2 with which I can beat goats to death^^

[steve-1945]

to me FPS games belong on consoles while rts games belong on pcs

[runab0ut]

I want a manual in dow2 with which I can beat goats to death^^

Yeah, but they'll give you a 15-pager quick reference and a 2mb pdf file.

[FriendlyFire]

@Konstant1n: the game still has to be designed to support USB mouse & keyboard. I seriously doubt any company would REQUIRE its players to use them on a console. Therefore, if the game comes out on a console, it'll need to have its interface and control scheme rebuilt to work with a gamepad, thus eliminating the possibility of using it with a mouse & keyboard (no support for hotkeys, new selection and movement methods, etc).

I really hope the game either is built from the ground up as a PC game and once the PC game is released, then START working on a console port. Meaning no concession is made for the PC game to adapt to a console. Otherwise, I'd prefer it to stay a PC exclusive.

As for the PC elitist comments, I don't believe it has to do with ego. It has to do with worry. Especially since it feels odd that the game's scale is getting smaller. Wouldn't that work better for consoles? I don't know what to think of that, I just hope the PC version stays unscarred whatever the case.

[Xenobane]

Im not a fan of RTS on console, the controller is too limiting.

[Ogra_Chief]

While I’m not too concerned with the limiting of squads (as most multi-player games revolve around six squads. Don’t believe me? Next time you play count the number of squads you use or are using… six is the magic number.) I am concerned with game complication such as wargear/reinforcement/RPG elements in multi-player. Fun games are simple games. That stuff needs to stay single player. I also don’t want some dumbed down console port either. I want a beautiful game of carnage and destruction.

Can’t say I’m too surprised there will be a console version either, as from a money standpoint it makes sense. Consoles bring in the $doe$ these days. The computer market is a puddle compared with the ocean that is the console market. Plus, I hope it opens up the player base while still remaining DoW. I hope.

Relic has a chance with DoW2 to secure its future not only as a great developer but as the industry standard. They can solidify a franchise, which few companies can do and reinvent a genre. They stand on a summit, either they will take flight or stumble badly and pay for it. All it takes is ONE failure and its over. Just look at Iron Lore… great developer but that was it. Acclaim is not the same thing as commercial success. Success allows freedom to make OTHER great games… that haven’t been seen in awhile *cough* Homeworld *cough* and maybe secure another franchise.

So i’m all for a 360 version if Relic can pull it off and still give me the DoW I want. Tyrannids be damned. :rant:

[Flagg]

HA! I had Syndicate Wars on the SNES and that worked out okay! I have both XBOX and PC, and if they are making for both, of course I will opt for the PC version, because a keyboard and mouse is a million times more flexible, but if anyone can make a pad work, its Relic.

[Pseudonymn]

A little OT but, actually, the number of PC users in the world dwarfs the number of consoles, particularly if you break it down into console subsets by brand. The trouble is, and this is where the distinction between the two markets is made, is that piracy is more rampant in the PC industry than it is in consoles. Should PC gamers wake up and actually start paying for their shiz, rather than contributing to their platform's deterioration (note, I did not say demise), we might well find that PC game sales would be very competitive, if not take the lead outright.

Back to topic, PC games have always been better than console games for a variety of reasons and I expect that DoW2 would be no different, even if the alleged console version were dumbed down from the "PC exclusive" version being touted today. Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is about here, provided that Relic sticks to their guns and develops DoW2 from a "PC first" paradigm.

The thing to be truly concerned about, IMO, is Relic's decision to use GfW-LIVE as their online service provider.

[Freelance]

the game still has to be designed to support USB mouse & keyboard.

The XBox360 itself does not support a mouse. Which is an enormous missed opportunity, as far as I am concerned, since it's basically a PC anyway- and it would definitely expand the field of FPS and RTS games on the XBox exponentially.

That said, I wouldn't complain if DoW2 came out on the XBox- hell, I might even get it. I would still get the PC version though, for the mods if nothing else.

[CPK]

i think that he said that so while people are playing the 360 with a different game they can talk to people playing DoW. Like someone who is playing call of duty and talking to his friend on his computer who is playing DoW2. I dont know if this works since im a PS3 player. But thats what i think.

[rb2610]

"The computer market is a puddle compared with the ocean that is the console market."

Which is always made much worse when a PC game goes multiplat because all the console fanboys and families/people who aren't very technologically aware (It's amazing how many people still assume that consoles are always superior to PC's for gaming just because they are made for playing games) will go for the console version rather than PC, resulting in less sales on PC, which is made worse when something is released on more than 1 console because then consoles outnumber PCs by a long way. So because of this more developers go multiplat for the money. But if more game companies went PC exclusive and made the process of buying and using a game on PC easier for the technologically incapable then PC games would increase in popularity.

[FriendlyFire]

Remember all sales figures exclude digital distribution and pay-to-play games, which are becoming new standards on the PC. On top of that, most figures are given only for the USA, but there's something out there other than the US!

[Pseudonymn]

Also don't forget that, just like consoles, PC sales tend to ebb and flow with new technologies. The recent past has seen PC hardware costs skyrocket, which is a deterrent for people who are not true enthusiasts. Even the console market did not escape unscathed (anyone remember how much the PS3 first went for? :Oogle: ). When costs begin to normalize again, PC development will pick up again in turn because, and let's be honest, PC games have always been better. It's not the first time that people were signing the PC gaming market's death certificate or saying the Console sales were ahead.

[Croaxleigh]

Let's not get into the whole "console vs. PC" thing again. Since the evidence of a 360 version has disappeared and it's been stated by Relic that DoW2 will be PC-exclusive several times, I'm going to go ahead and close this; should evidence be found that changes this, PM me and I'll unlock it.