RPG/RTS Format Friend Or Foe

[RagnarBlackmane]

Hi all

Given the recent explosion of info in regards to lvling, stat bonuses, items etc etc there seems to be mixed feeling on wether this is a advancement or a regression. I for one welcome the idea i dont believe balancing out "Hero's" Will be a problem as relic has managed to balance what 8 teams im sure they can manage this. Also people worried that being tactical will no longer take i part....what are you thinking this is going to possibly be the most tactical rts game to come out....ur squad members have names u cant just magically reinforce so you are going to have to be tactical or ..your not going to have a squad...Anyways just wnating everyones view and not just winging or bitching that this and that is going to change. Cheers

[steve-1945]

Personaly i prefer a standard rts but the new direction is interesting. The part im looking forward to the most has to be the increased custimization of Commanders

[RagnarBlackmane]

Agreed the new way is something which will be interesting....but being able to give my assult marine commander lightning claws ...omfg Geekasim

[Deacon412]

loving the new way, change is good

[QuietWulf]

Anyone think the suggested gameplay has a bit in common with DoTA?

Lots of micro (with heroes) triggered abilities and RPG like lvl's and items.

It's worked with DoTA... don't see why it can't be enhanced and moved into the DoW series :)

[RagnarBlackmane]

i mean dont get me wrong i love the original series but relic have a habit of bringing out innovative ideas and i believe this new game will expand on a very lightly touched genre

[steve-1945]

well im all for inovation i dislike it when developers ruin good things and say its inovative im not saying thats what they are doing here but well ill certainly miss the traditional rts elements they have axed

[RagnarBlackmane]

the only thing i think ill miss is the base building i was a bit of a hey look at me with all my turrets and heavy bolter and missle launchers and pred's and land raider lol come get me but...i welcome the breath of fresh air this game brings to the table

[Mokino]

It's definitely a cool idea, but I'm hoping it doesn't make things too infantry focused. Sure, SM and Orkz are about the footsoldiers, but if we get races like the IG they'll need a heavier focus on the tanks.

[dreddnott]

I'd rather have them try something new than stagnate. This change in gameplay doesn't keep me from playing old skool Dawn of War.

Plus it seems like it's going to be a lot more like Faces of War, which I enjoy immensely.

[Captain Wicha]

im all for the customization really the RPG elements had me set off at first but really if anyone can pull this off its relic...

that said my major concerns are:
1. un-killable heroes... aka that this becomes like warcraft 3 and that your heroes are going to be the main bread winner for your army... im worried that one hero just because he has the best gear in the game will be able to walk in and bbq your entire army... fortunately because it looks like your entire army can be upgraded aswell so it looks like the emphasis is still on the troops instead of the heroes...

2. that the customization makes it to multiplayer and is broken... as cool as the customization in the multiplayer would be you know someone somewhere is going to find that right combo that you have to use if you wish to stay competitive...

otherwise everything else looks fantastic... the lack of base building is awesome... as is the rarity of armor now (hopefully it will also get a buff according to what muller described)

[TheLoneKnight]

Please bear in mind that Relic still hasn't said anything significant about Multiplayer/skirmish yet. All this stuff, so far, is confirmed solely for the singleplayer campaign.

At the moment I rather like what they're doing with the campaign: the wargear, the attributes, the replayability and presistent units and so on. I just wish they would get around to telling us how they're going to implement some of these things in multiplayer, if they are actually going to do so.

[roospion]

I have to say Relic is seeing that the market is doing good for similar games, their competitor products, and they are leveraging on that...

Good stuff attract bees, so need Better stuff to attract even more Bees

[Captain Wicha]

amen... im all in (correct me if im wrong) for the multiplayer announcement in 5 weeks!

what i mean with point #2 is that while i want the gear to matter... i would rather have the battle be won by tactics... not by what im wearing... its hard to describe but do you get where im going with this?

however so far (i was on the fence in the beginning) this game is shaping out to be awesome!

[TheLoneKnight]

Well, Wicha, if wargear can be bought in multiplayer or each squad leader is allowed to wear a certain point-allotment/value of wargear, it would presumably give players a new tactical/strategic consideration in skirmishes.

Then again, the wargear may be in skirmish only through generic upgrades/appearance randomisation, having no serious impact, while the abilities one usually derives from wargear would be available for certain squads/units.

[Oz_Striker]

I think wargear, for multiplayer, will be balanced. There will be no uber wargear just differences for different tactics, like slow or freeze. These weapons would slow and allow for other troops to concentrate fire but would do less damage for balance.I think Relic are making it all about strategy with wargear selection being the first part of the strategy. Certain wargear combinations would be better for different racematchups, so i t would be all about the right wargear with the right tactics.

I personally think the RPG elements are fully welcome, even though I loved having a big base to fall back on. I have always tried to use elite strike forces in DOW1 to no avail, so to me DOW2 is a godsend.

[Dooks Dizzo]

The only style of game I like more than RTS's are RPG's so this is pretty much the best thing ever as far as I am concerned. Honestly I wish I got to create my squad like a group of D&D characters :)

[akuma85]

we'll know about multiplayer in 4-5 weeks (mid august), I'm searching where I've read that (it was recent news).

[Ghost Sniper]

Akuma, that was basically the only new info we got from the 'interview' today. As for adding RPG element's, really I think of it as evolving what we already have. DoW already makes commanders important, and they already have special attacks. The only thing their adding is customization, which is something I think all of us have been asking for. As for 'leveling', isn't that veterency under a different name?

[RagnarBlackmane]

I beleive the wargear aspect of this will not overshadow the tactical side of things i think its going to be more "wow my tactics were good and if i didn have that war gear i might have lost a couple more dudes but meh still would have won without it" I think from relics point of view people have been crying out for customisation and relic have delivered

[Versian]

Ah, mixing RPG with RTS. I remember when WC3 Shocked the RTS community because of this.

Problem was, a large part of the game revolved around babysitting your hero.

Heroes eventually started pwning n00bs by themselves and became major issues in combat. Sure, they were balanced with high resource costs, but the very essence of RTS was diminished by this.

I say keep the RPG customization apart from the game. Have a screen where you can customize your Commander/Sergeants/Squad Members apart. Maybe you can reach said screen from the army customizer. Once in game, keep the focus on RTS. Heroes have cool items and stuff, but it's more about where you send him and with what troops, rather than his bling bling.

[Mr Punk]

Great, reminds me of Blizzard. Which is horrible! I wanted to get away from RPG games and just get out and slaughter! Not level up and baby sit my bloody commander so he can do everything himself, whole time of course taking bullets to the head.

Yes, lovely job on the RPG'ing elements, we will have those Koreans buying this game in no time! "Oh wait, what's this?! Some poor bugger left a well placed and spottable medic pack on the floor! Well this should heal me right away!" . No, I was hoping Relic and THQ would not go down the path of RPG mixing, I can't stand baby sitting people just so they can be their full power by the end of the campaign.

"A commander of 2 thousand years enters the battlefield! Shame he is only level 1 and can't even take out a grot, better get leveling kiddo and camp behind some bushes!"

Why couldn't Relic just do what they did with CoH and had a experiance to units, not levels... Of course I could just be jumping the gun a bit much here, but god dammit I hate Blizzard games and leveling systems, they belong to RPG games and online stuff, not mixing.

:|

[roospion]

Conclusion,

DOW2 = Ground Control + World in Conflict + Warcraft3(Hero RPG elements) + CoH

Need not matter RTS or RTT,
or RTRPTS (Real Time Role Playing Tactical/Strategy) it is going to ROCK the gaming world !

[RagnarBlackmane]

im going to leave my final word as this...when relic does something this big.....it just does not fail. The combination of experience in both genre's makes me confident that this game will not only be wickedly awesome but also revolutionary ...AM PUMPED WANT IT NOW

[dreddnott]

The Relic team has stated there's some sort of limit to how much you can pimp out your commander and sergeants, apparently there are a limited number of possible upgrades that you can spread around, so you can't "max out" everybody. Hopefully this will keep the focus on real-time tactical decisions and not mindless grinding.

[Necronmaniac]

As i understood it, you only levelled your seargents stats up between missions and you can equip them with items between missions. Once you are in a mission then its a case of getting on with it with what you have. Yes you can pick up new gear in a mission but i didnt think you could USE that equipment until the following missions.

I think adding the RPG elements is better for the game, its like the next step on from the veterancy other games have offered, and i have always liked the idea in an RTS of you army being your 'character' and as it wins battles and completes objectives it gets 'experience' which allows it to use better equipment etc. It just seems like the natural way to go to me. I mean lets face it, if this game still had base building in it along with everything we already know about, most people would not be too fussed.

[Mr Punk]

"Oh cool I found a powersword on the floor, awesome."

[Konstant1n]

My biggest fear for this is Balance, which i love Relic.. But by god they are terrible at balance.

I mean CoH OF is so horribly balanced(Even after patches) it actualy defies logic..

[RagnarBlackmane]

i tend to disagree.....u try balancing 8 teams and see how easy it is....but they did it yes its going to take time but relic always get shit right even if it is slightly unbalanced it wont be so EPIC that its unplayable so meh bring it on

[Konstant1n]

CoH OF only has 4 armies.

[RagnarBlackmane]

but all the dow together is eight so shh lol but seriosuly if there was one team i wasnt worried about deliverying groundbreaking ideas and then being able to fix any probs relic would be my teeam never been dissapointed...except soulstorm but that was iron lore

[Mad Onion]

As long as they don't take the RPG elements too far...

Force Commander Jonny: "Ooh. A ladybird."
*Force Commander Jonny found a ladybird
*Force Commander Jonny was horribly mauled by the ladybird
*The ladybird was level 99

Who can guess where I got this from :D

[konfeta]

To be honest, there really aren't that many ground breaking innovations and ideas in DoW 2 so far. Much of what has been talked about is simply evolution of previous implementations (such as WC3/Spellforce RPG-RTS hybridization; Squad Combat; Cover; etc.).

This will probably change when the multiplayer info hits though.

[Vojevoda]

As long as these, so called PRG elements, remain in single campaing only - it's fine.
But in multyplayer... All these level ups are not good in terms of balance.

[konfeta]

They *can* be good in terms of balance. Their inclusion, however, makes it more difficult to balance. So, I think Relic should steer clear of it till the first X-Pack.

[3rd CFTL]

Uh no, CoH have 4*3 = 12 factions with their individual advantages. Try to compare airborne amis with infantry amis. Doctrines make a lot in there, strange for you don't understand.

[Imperial Dane]

I don't mind the RPG parts, as long as the RTS aspect is in focus that is, i mean i don't desire for the RPG aspects to become intrusive and kinda ruin it all.. Otherwise go for it Relic !

[Noble]

Look dudes, having RPG elements does not mean that those elements are going to be totally out of control and overshadow every other aspect of the game. Relic isn't going to make DoW into a Warcraft III clone. I really really doubt that you're going to have to focus on leveling your hero up and tricking him out with wargear to the exclusion of using tactics and managing an army. It just needs to be done right, and I'm confident that Relic can pull that off.

If you think back to the release of the original DoW you'll remember that much of the same criticism was leveled at that game. People found out that there were going to be hero units (the force commander and farseer) and instantly started complaining about the similarity to WCIII. In actuality, Relic had done a good job of making the heroes a useful addition to your army rather than armies in and of themselves. The heroes were powerful, no doubt, but they were useless without tactics and a mainstay army to back them up. I think that's probably what we'll see in this version as well.

[Imperial Dane]

Well so far the abilities mentioned seem geared towards squad tactics anyways.

[the_voice]

Guys,

You should check a game called WORLDSHIFT. It not THE RTS of all time, but it has got good ideas. It was released last year from a not-so-well-known publisher.

It is an RTS-RPG like, with co-op campain. Before you starts, you select which type of unit you want to play with. You have a sort of initial credit (like in SS for honour guard), and you "buy" the type of unit. In game, it look like a mix of DOW for strategic point (there is no resources to gather) and CoH/WCIII where you get experience. There is 3 races, and it is exclusively online.

The campain is more RPG-like since you can defeat big bosses with one of your mate.


I think that this kind of formula can fit with DOW, a whole new gameplay, for sure. But it is far from the regular RTS that we all know.

Peace

[Deunan]

Though my hopes are somewhat burned by reading the review, that mentions gear drops falling out of monsters in diabloesque color coding.
It just makes me feel kinda skeptical about the prominence of the RPG elements.

[steve-1945]

I hope it doesnt fall into a wow type items

OMG LVEL 14 Chainsword of Frost gotz 12+ attack woooo

[Konstant1n]

Well so far from what I’ve seen for the game from interviews etc.
The entire game revolves around gear, nothing else, much like WoW.
Oh and of course, my Level 10 force commander is going to kick that crap out of your level 7 Ork Warboss. What's this?! Ork attacks with "Smash attack"
FC successfully dodges "Smash attack" and attacks back with "Strong Swing" etc...

FC defeats Ork and gains 300 exp!
FC leveled up to 11!
Ork Boss drops Power Sword of Might (+5 strength) and 2 health packs.


And every new video and interview seems to confim this.

[Noble]

You're taking a small amount of information and running with it Konstantin. There isn't anything that indicates the RPG elements are going to work in the way you describe. Point me to your source and I'll eat my crow, but I think you're just contriving baseless scenarios to make your point.

[FooF]

Overly simplified, Konstant1n, which is your point, of course, but I disagree.

"Phat lewt" is not going to win the day in DoW2. Positioning, using the right tool for the right job, and proper judgment of how a battle is going is going to be far more important than the gear you have. Getting better gear will make your troops more efficient and will give you a prayer against going up superior numbers or more powerful foes.

I mean, let's face it, will a "green" (no pun intended) Ork, freshly popped up from the ground, be able to face down a battle-hardened Force Commander and have any chance to win? Will 5 new Orks fare any better? It's not outside the realm of Warhammer 40K logic to imagine that a veteran Marine could take on a pack of foes that would individually be the match for a new recruit.

Who knows if that Warboss doesn't have 10x the HP of the FC, even though the FC is a "higher level." Perhaps a level 1 Warboss was more than a match for the Level 10 FC. We don't know how it's balanced yet so we all need to not jump to conclusions.

[Konstant1n]

Go read/watch any newer interview. They're all talking bout loot, and how important it is, how important attributes are, and one even talk about a boss battle with a Ork.

[Noble]

Yes, they talk about wargear, loot if you really want to call it that, and heroes a lot. They do not describe the game in the way you did. Again, you need to link the source if you want to prove me wrong.

My main point is that the scenario you described is a gross oversimplification. Where are all the other units while those two heroes are fighting? Maybe a level 10 FC will beat a level 7 warboss. Then again, that boss might be backed up by several dozen of the meanest boyz around and make mincemeat out of that FC.

DoWII is not going to be WCIII and it certainly isn't going to be WoW. Unless you can provide some kind of concrete evidence to the contrary (aside from "omg there is XP and item drops!") you are not going to sway anyone's opinion.

[FooF]

They're showcasing the loot system because it's so so wildly different from traditional RTS games. It's garnering all the attention at the moment. The Devs are also saying the same thing because they want to seperate DoW2 from the crowd.

Since the cover system has already been implemented in CoH, it doesn't have the novelty it used to. Line of sight, walls, destroyable terrain, etc. are going to play as much, if not more of a deciding factor in battles than wargear. Blindly rushing up a well fortified position in elite gear is still going to spell doom for your troops.

This is an RTS with RPG-elements, not the other way around. (I'll go back to my Real-Time Role-Playing Strategy Game moniker for DoW2 :))

[konfeta]

It would actually be incredibly ironic and funny if it did turn out to be WC3 like. In fact, I would be willing to have the DoW franchise sacrificed just to watch the carnage in the aftermath of the game's release.

[Konstant1n]

Like the Bonecrusher boss fight?


After taking a shrine and overcoming more orks, the marines finally reached Bonecrusher. The game then switched into an almost Diablo-like fight, with Bonecrusher's health bar appearing at the top of the screen in typical boss-battle fashion. The Relic rep used the Force Commander almost like an RPG-style tank, keeping the boss busy as the smaller units picked away at him. After calling in minor reinforcements, Bonecrusher eventually submit, triggering an in-game finishing move by the Force Commander. The game was then sent back to the orbital view, allowing for upgrades and rearmament before the next mission

From http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=930

[Noble]

So, how does a single part of a single mission in singleplayer equate to:


Ork attacks with "Smash attack"
FC successfully dodges "Smash attack" and attacks back with "Strong Swing" etc...

FC defeats Ork and gains 300 exp!
FC leveled up to 11!
Ork Boss drops Power Sword of Might (+5 strength) and 2 health packs.

Your ignoring most of the game in your description and focusing on one tiny aspect.

Further, in the bit you quoted, the interviewer actually talks about how the player used the force commander to draw damage from what they were fighting while simultaneously using his other units to kill the 'boss'. Doesn't that demonstrate that heroes exist in DoWII to help your mainstay units rather than replace them?

[FooF]

Instead of arguing over "OMG DOW2=WAR3!", let's get back to the OP.

I for one think the change is good, especially for Single Player. However, if the same system was word-for-word turned into MP, I don't think it would have the same success. MP doesn't have the luxury of having a persistent world where your troops get better and better and fight harder and harder enemies. It's a series of independant skirmishes that has no bearing on future conflicts and doesn't care about what victories you had in the past.

Now, if they made the MP a persistent world (kind of like CoH-Online in China), we have a totally different ballgame. Galaxy maps, sectors, planets with different battlefields, man that'd be awesome. You could get a squad, level them up against newer players, gain ranks and get loot and then combine your forces with others for Black Crusades, fight against Tyranid invasions, start an Ork Waaagh!, etc.

If they could pull that off, it would be money in the bank.

However, if they try a different avenue that has a more "expedited" experience system (kind of like the American faction in CoH) that lets you level up as you go and assign stat points in-game, that could also work, albeit at a different level than the SP. I don't want them to get rid of the RPG-elements in the MP experience but it would have to be altered to fit the "independant" skirmish mentality of MP games.

[Mullertime]

Erm... wow...

I have to say, you guys jump to some pretty colourful conclusions

One thing you all seem to be forgetting is that we pretty much have this scale of customisation in TT. Maybe not experience (Although, to my knowledge, campaigns have veterency points, right?). But with regards to equipment and such, I can't really say that this game differs too much from it.

If you think about it, here, you can give your sergeants some goodies. Say... couldn't you do that in TT? As far as I'm aware, in TT, most squads had the "You can upgrade to sergeant for +x points. The sergeant can pick any equipment from the armoury"

Commanders and leaders could all do that. They could all equip themselves with little goodies to make themselves stronger and have a bit more punch.
Effectively, we see that here. The squad leaders can get goodies, as can the commanders.

Is TT a hero-fest where pumped up heroes rip apart every enemy with ease?
Does every squad with sergeants turn into slaughter-machines that can rip apart an enemy that might not equip them with as much?
Is TT predominantly won by the gear you give your sergeants? As far as I'm aware, the army you pick and the way you use them is more important. The gear just adds useful little boosts

We're all quick to jump the gun and think SP = MP
I can see exp and levels in SP...

But I'd be hesitant to think that that would be in Multiplayer.
And the reason is simple:

Relic has been going on about getting to the action quickly. Their focus here is on getting to the bloody and wildfire as quickly as possible
If the levels/exp/gear stuff was honestly included in multiplayer, then the match would constantly be interrupted by you outfitting your units with some goodies. You level up a unit, and have to go and equip them... just not practical.
You might be able to research some stuff, and equip beforehand... but most of what has been discussed for Single Player just isn't practical in Multiplayer.

The only thing we might see is some basic veterancy. But the impact probably won't be massive. Like in CoH, units can become a bit stronger with some veterancy. But the higher levels probably aren't insta-kill-all units that can only be countered by units of equal or greater exp. It's prob just a unit that's a little bit stronger and can cause a bit more damage

Stop thinking that Relic are thick turd-munchers.
Surely the Single Player doesn't instantly reflect into Multiplayer... otherwise details of MP would have been released alongside the SP stuff
Come on, think about it.
Why are Relic withholding details on MP?
Surely this suggests that there's something completely different to SP in Multiplayer?
Cos if it was the same, revealing it so much later would be a bit anti-climactic...

"Hey guys! We have veterancy, looting, exp, upgrades and all that cool stuff for SP... blah blah blah... as, we're not saying anything on MP just yet..."
"Here's the Multiplayer stuff guys! We have veterancy, looting, exp, upgardes and all that cool stuff for MP..."

Not really something worth withholding 'till a later date, is it?

Anyways, to the OP...
I... want... this... game... so... badly...

I'm ignoring the veterancy/equipment stuff... what I love, after reading a review of the SP mission, was the sheer level of intelligent micro-management required
The fact that he used little tricks and moves to overcome them. Not just "I built Space marines. Gave them flamers and ran in"
It's the fact that the game will pretty much require you to out-think your enemy, as well as out-gun them.

I'm just really looking forward to it! The chance for real tactics.
Personally, I don't mind getting out-thought in a fight. If they use better tactics. Well done to them! It's when it's jus "I built tanx quicka" that it gets annoying

[Imperial Dane]

Good lord what a post.. but i agree with it. Although i had never thought of the TT angle to be honest.
In any case i don't think this will stop people from thinking that multiplayer will turn out like singleplayer, or that singleplayer will turn out to be some diablo clone..

What can i say ? i am still looking forward to the game as it offers so many cool things.. and that is just the campaign, which is the most important aspect for me, so i can't wait until spring 2009.

[GRIM Ripper]

imo all of this is AWESOME for the single player campaign. heck, in SP i want to just have the nastiest guys out there pwning everything. i mean, i didnt even bother playing either of DOW1's expansion campaigns, but now i am genuinely intrigued with all the abilities and stuff.

however, MP is a totally different ballgame. i really hope MP is VASTLY different than all of these descriptions of SP, with minor base building, no loot drops at all, BALANCED minor customization available to everyone (not just based on items you find or something like that)... i guess we can only wait 5 weeks for multi player info :(

[Versian]

WarGear and RPG elements can carry out to Multiplayer as well. In fact, I'd like it. It would give us more reasons to play online instead of the lame, pathetic, worthless medals that Iron Lore promised would actually make a difference.

Of course, Balance. Balance first of all, no "lol, Elite level 80 Commander pwning entire Tyranid Hive Fleet by himself". Of course, we must remember that WarGear applies to squads as well. Balance would mostly be in a balanced distribution of WarGear. I am not promoting Item Hunting a la WarCraft 3, but yes, WarGear distribution needs to be fair. Maybe associate it with Strategic Points or something. I don't know.

All I know is that the RPG elements can carry out to Multiplayer, as long as it's fair. Stronger soldiers are a reward for the effort you put into them.

[Mokino]

Perhaps in MP wargear could simply be bought with resources? Make a player decide between recruiting a new squad or upgrading the current?

[Esa]

Its awesome that Relic (who is not EA, Nintendo or blizzard HUGE) is trying something altogether new. Though they have a powerful franchise, experimenting like this can be somewhat risky and im glad that relic is up to this challenge.

[Ravenous]

Personaly i prefer a standard rts but the new direction is interesting.

I definitely prefer something new. I've been playing standard RTSs since Dune 2 :p

DoW made a great innovation with strategic points replacing traditional resource gathering. Base building with resource gathering is one of the things I hate about mulitplayer RTS. Relic has taken it in the right direction in my opinion with the point systems used in DoW and CoH.

I can only hope DoW2 will be even more innovative. Perhaps even less production management replaced with more small scale tactical gameplay. I think it's what Warcraft 3 claimed to be doing when they first announced, but then soon went back to the traditional RTS style, seeing how Blizzard is afraid to try something new :D .Plus this RPG element with Wargear(lewt!) sounds even better. I'd much rather have semi-persistent army to choose and equipped for a tactical game than worry about resources and having to produce a large army for more of a strategic game.

[Mr Punk]

What I do not want to happen is having some sort of WoW item dropping system. You kill an Eldar and you get a space marine power sword? Please, I don't want that it doesnt make sense and goes against 40k. If you could however kill boss's and such then maybe you could buy items before missions. Of course one thing I've always hated is over 'blinged' commanders who seem to be going to a dance instead of a war.

All in all I want my commanders to mix in with my army, not run around with frostblade with +1 fire damage.

[Nashnir]

I honestly like the direction relic is taking DoW 2 towards. But I hope there not too much of micro which really spoils missions especially the campaigns ( Well it's true at least for me ).
What I am really excited about is to find out how the multi-player will work out.

I fell that RPG elements in RTS especially in the Campaigns will be a novel idea and work well but I have doubts about it from multiplayer point of view.

I fell that single player missions will work out like Commandos series in tactical aspect with gore and action borrowed from the WH:40K universe.

[Thuraash]

Mullertime, I agree with everything you said in your epic post. People are just jumping to baseless conclusions about some potentially awesome innovations. Give it time, people! Think this through a bit, and know that this is Relic we're dealing with, and not EA.

The thing that I'm most loving about the new, smaller direction isn't just the fact that you HAVE small-scale tactics, but that those moves are intelligent and sensible. There's a big difference between getting out-thought, and out-clicked. CoH wasn't conducive to clickspam, and it looks like DoW2 isn't, either.

The boss fights actually sound pretty cool, because you have to apply tactics to beat them, and play to the strengths of your squads. You can't just steamroll the boss.

[Asiriya]

What I do not want to happen is having some sort of WoW item dropping system. You kill an Eldar and you get a space marine power sword? Please, I don't want that it doesnt make sense and goes against 40k. If you could however kill boss's and such then maybe you could buy items before missions. Of course one thing I've always hated is over 'blinged' commanders who seem to be going to a dance instead of a war.

All in all I want my commanders to mix in with my army, not run around with frostblade with +1 fire damage.
Yes, but if the Eldar were to find some old ruins with a Witchblade in, surely they would pick it up. Really, there isn't going to be a huge amount you could customise; different armour, choosing between regular SM and Termy, jump packs maybe, different swords or claws and maybe some kind of upgraded bolter, but you can't choose all of them; can't have jump packs with Termy armour, lightning claws and a power sword for instance. Besides, even if you were to equip one squad to the max, I would imagine that would leave the others underpowered in comparison to an enemy that spread out the upgrades.
I love the idea of a persistant MP, filled with scenarios; an expansion of the SP (we know we can play it cooperatively, it would be fun to have the option of going online and playing against humans on the same missions). Balancing would be an issue though; how do you stop brand new players from being overwhelmed? Perhaps tie it into the campaign. You can start multi straight away but at a disadvantage, or perhaps with more troops, against less but better equipped enemies. Alternatively, play the campaign and unlock some stuff, this can then be ported into MP. Different items give you different strengths, different weaknesses. As you play you can earn better gear by beating people with different gear to you, or by finding it. You get a Pokemon esque type of gameplay, with people playing each new mission to try and find this new stuff. I know this is very WoW-ish, but it promotes longevity. It also allows new races and storylines to be played out on a MP campaign map; new players start at one end of the galaxy, fight their way around. New portions of galaxy are opened up periodically with new gear, or else threats emerge in different places, for instance an Ork invasion. Players can either fight the threat if they are strong enough or ignore it. To me, it sounds fun. MMORTT?