V1, V2 & V3

[Tom 1561]

I think most of you know about them, Hitler's "Vergeltungswaffe". But my question is how they were during the war and helped after the war (The V2 in particular). Discuss as you please.

V1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-1_flying_bomb

V2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2_rocket

V3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-3_cannon
I'm sorry this is in German.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97nyIePE07o

[SubZero]

A very interesting piece of technology in my opinion. I was surprised that, despite it's successful deployment and accuracy during the war, the Japanese army still wished to stick a pilot in their modified versions of the V1 a la kamikaze.

[Roysalipuran]

o.. you mean the Oka Kami-v1? that was pure insanity from my point of view.. but i guess they just had to stick a pilot inside so it would be meaningful for them or something..

[holyknight]

Yea, Japanese did pretty much anything for their "god," also know as emperor. Just watched Letter from Iwo Jima 2 or 3 days ago, and I was so depressed when they killed themselves. What's the point of that?

Back on topic, was V3 ever developed and used against the Allies?

[Tom 1561]

Nope the v3 was blown to smithereens by allied bombing before completion of the gun.

[Cossack]

I read that the V3 (version LRK 15F58) was used against Allies in Luxembourg. But yes, a first gun was destroyed by Allies. A second gun was captured by the USA.
Does somebody hear something about the MidgardSchlange? It is a subterrine.
And German had Projekt Amerika. It was project of ballistic missiles А-9/А-10 (“AmerikaRakete” ) and A-12, Rheinbote.

[Roysalipuran]

yup i have heard of that sucker... a balistic missile that was supposed to blow up some targets on US soil

[**Spetsnaz**]

All in all, all Vergeltungswaffe were a large waste of resource. allthough some good things were derived from it, like SAM missiles, the industrial resources would have been better used on building tanks, airplanes & submarines of the advanced types that Germany had in the late war period.

V1 & V2 were nuisances, compared to a strike with a 1000 bombers or an assault with 800 T34 & IS2 tanks.

[killerpoodle]

Thing I could never understand about the V weapons, why were they concentrated at the Great Britian, when they could of been used agianst the Soviets?

[Tom 1561]

All in all, all Vergeltungswaffe were a large waste of resource. allthough some good things were derived from it, like SAM missiles, the industrial resources would have been better used on building tanks, airplanes & submarines of the advanced types that Germany had in the late war period.

V1 & V2 were nuisances, compared to a strike with a 1000 bombers or an assault with 800 T34 & IS2 tanks.

I think for the SAM you mean the wasserfall rocket.

[Roysalipuran]

Thing I could never understand about the V weapons, why were they concentrated at the Great Britian, when they could of been used agianst the Soviets?

I think if they did... God knows what the Soviets would have made! (maybe something of Imense proportions or just bombing the living crap out of berlin)

[Cossack]

List of Wunderwaffe

Naval vessels
Type XXI U-boat
Type XXIII U-boat

Tanks
Panzer VIII "Maus"
Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte
Landkreuzer P. 1500 Monster
Flakpanzer Kugelblitz

Jets and rocket-propelled aircraft
Heinkel He 280 - the first jet fighter
Messerschmitt Me 262 the first operational turbojet fighter/bomber
Messerschmitt Me 163 "Komet" the first and only operational rocket-propelled fighter
Focke-Wulf Ta 183 jet fighter
Arado Ar 234 - the first jet bomber
Horten Ho 229 "flying wing" jet fighter/bomber
Bachem Ba 349 manned rocket-propelled interceptor
Silbervogel sub-orbital antipodal bomber
Heinkel He 162 jet fighter

Combat helicopters
Flettner Fl 282 "Kolibri"
Focke Achgelis Fa 223 "Drache"

Bombs and explosives
Fritz X air-to-ship glide bomb
Henschel Hs 293 glide bomb
German nuclear energy project

Artillery
Schwerer Gustav
V-3 cannon "Hochdruckpumpe" (a multi-stage cannon)

Missiles
Fi 103 (V1) - the first cruise missile
A4 (V2) - the first mid-range ballistic missile
Rheinbote - the first short-range ballistic missile
Wasserfall supersonic ground-to-air missile
Hs 117 Schmetterling ground-to-air missile
Enzian ground-to-air missile
Ruhrstahl X-4 wire-guided air-to-air missile
Fliegerfaust/Luftfaust hand-held automatic rocket launcher

Rifles
Sturmgewehr 44 - the first assault rifle
Sturmgewehr 45 - prototype

Support equipment
Zielgerät 1229 Vampir night-vision equipment
FG 1250 Tank Mounted night-vision equipment


Thing I could never understand about the V weapons, why were they concentrated at the Great Britian, when they could of been used agianst the Soviets?
Schwerer Gustav was used in the Soviet Union at the siege of Sevastopol. But it is W-weapon, not V-weapon. However, Vergeltungswaffe is a part of Wunderwaffe.

[Roysalipuran]

So technecally they WERE used on soviet troops?

[Thunderforce]

Thing I could never understand about the V weapons, why were they concentrated at the Great Britian, when they could of been used agianst the Soviets?

Because V rockets are intended for strategic bombardment, to attack and destroy buildings, factories, that sort of thing. Using them against troops in the Soviet Union would be pointless. There was also no point in using them against Soviet cities since, well, the Germans were very confident and saw no point in destroying cities that they would soon capture.

[**Spetsnaz**]

SAM = Surface-to-Air Missile, and is a type of missile, not necessarily the wasserfall or another type. its any missile launched from earth to take out an airplane.

[Cossack]

So technecally they WERE used on soviet troops?
Yes, big guns were (mortar "Karl", for example), but not V3.
"Gustav" was used against Sevastopol forts.

[LloydyBoy]

what dont get is V1 is a flying rocket
V2 is a ballistic missile
and now V3 was a super cannon
why did they go from flying objects to cannons and still call them "Vergeltungswaffe" or Vengance weapons

also why didnt hitler use the A-bomb he almost built in 1943 against the russians

[Tom 1561]

The allies sunk the ship with the components for it.

[Monkey Soldier]

The V1 was a flying bomb, but I don't know why the V3 was a cannon. Maybe because of the lack of fuel?

The heavy water was sunk on a lake in Norway while it was transported. Norwegian Commando's sunk the ferry with the heavy water above the deepest point of the lake.

[say1988]

The Germans were not near operational use of a nuclear bomb. Best they could have done was a dirty bomb.

The V-weapons weren't intended to defeat the enemy through firepower, they were terror weapons. This is why they were used against Britain, because they still thought continued bombardment would force them to surrender, and Hitler did not was teh Soviets to negotiate a peace, they were to be crushed.

The V weapons are designated because of their purpose, not their type. In many ways a giant gun is just plain better than missiles.

[LloydyBoy]

yeah but a huge cannon has a 45% chance of actually hitting a target bang on

[say1988]

And that is better than a V1 or V2 had.

[Thunderforce]

yeah but a huge cannon has a 45% chance of actually hitting a target bang on

That's not actually true, considering that even during World War 1, both the Allies and the Central Powers were equipped with quite large and bulky train artillery which were all fairly accurate.

[say1988]

It really depends on the size of the target and the distance. Also remember that in WWII normally guns were relatively accurate, but still had to be zeroed in by observers on the front watching shells fall. (not going to happen with the V3 very well, and a large potential for winds to change during its flight).

And a gun capable of shooting across the English Channel is going to be inaccurate (subject to winds that the German gunners would have no way of calculating), but still more accurate and reliable than and contemporary missile.

[LloydyBoy]

yeah suppose that is true the 1st target for the V2 was the parlament building (i forget the name) and the V2 ended up in chisick (outskirts of london) but none the less it hit london, sort of

[Sturmhaubitze]

Naval guns in WW2 were very accurate for their time, and would still be considered fairly accurate today. While not quite as large as the V3, the main guns on a battleship are of a comparable size and power that the mathematical calculations could be scaled up to accomodate the range of the V3. Not perfectly, mind you, but close enough that you can hit specific neighbourhoods of London, if not specific blocks.

As for using Vengeance weapons on the Soviets, a case could be made for using them against Soviet factories to hinder production. However the V1 and V2 are far too inaccurate for this purpose, so only the V3 would be of any use in this role. Though if German high command had considered destroying Soviet factories to be important, they would have funded a strategic bomber program to get heavy bombers, rather than make something like the V3 for the Eastern Front.

[say1988]

While I have no doubt mathematics could get plot the shell path pretty accurately, even with naval guns they typically took some shells to zero in, and my big question about the V3 would be its up to 2 minute flight time. Winds could dramatically affect the shell over that time, and a quick shift in the wind cannot be predicted, especially when firing westward in that region.

I agree it would be relatively accurate, far more so than the V1 and V2, but you would still be aiming at the city or part of it, not a building. But, then again, its purpose was indiscriminate destruction to scare the people.