Lack of prolonged combat

[GRIM Ripper]

Anyone else find combat to be too quick? I understand it might be more decisive and tactical this way when you lose units in seconds but it's just not as fun IMO. In dow1 you had battles that could last for minutes. If you had the resources and the situation proved worthy you could watch a squad of sluggas fight a marine squad for minutes. It was brtual and it was cool!

But without instant reinforcment in the field, battles are decided in seconds, and people retreat literally in the first second of combat.

On one hand I like the lethality of weapons, but on the other it makes battles are quick and not as brutal or visceral as the first game.

So in short, though I'm sure anyone from the coh camp will disagree, I'd like to see more ways to reinforce in the battlefield besides destroyable apcs and zeal expensive abilities. Maybe the option to reinforcoe anywhere at any time for double or tripple the cost. Or make it variable depending on the horse mentality. Nids would have cheap on field reinforcments while marines would have expensive etc. Have a time modifier so that in combat reinforcment is slow.

In the end, armies are not that much smaller in dow2 then they were in dow1 at one time. With orks I get 2 sluggas, 2 shootas and some stikkbommas. This isn't much different then dow1 actually during early game. But things start to feel a lot smaller without that in combat reinforce.

Ps I love most of the changes and I am greatly enjoying the tactical gameplay. I just want to see combat more prolonged and exciting and I don't know any other way to do it besides on field reinforcment.

[kodi]

buy a transport. Troops can be reinforced at a transport vehicle.

[Pocktio]

I prefer things dying quickly. I dislike watching health bars slowly diminish for the sake of longevity. Battles can be long, it all depends on the situation. What units, what cover etc.

[steve-1945]

I agree with you grim. Its funny to see a 8foot talll ceramite incased 300 year old killing machine to be brought down in 2 secs from machinegun fire. And by funny I mean disapointing

Or seeing a 1000 year old dread killed with 1-2 slashs from a carnifex. Or fireprism tank destroyed in 1 hit from a dread.

[Zepheris]

but they weren't meant to survive longer than that.

stat wise that's what one would expect from them, and the whole point is that if you are sending them straight against a meat grinder then they will still fall and die no matter what.

don't run men straight to heavy guns, that's suicide ... don't try and fight a melee oriented carnifex with melee attack, that's suicide as well unless ur bigger still... and don't be on the receiving end of a dreadnought power fist unless you can take the hit and dish more back.

[archaon376]

I like the faster pace of combat. I think it's even more brutal and visceral than the first.

[steve-1945]

Zepheris. You must know "im not trying to insult you" next to nothing of the fluff.

This generally is the space marine way of thinking

When the enemy is weak ATTACK FROM THE FRONT
When the enemy has weak flanks its a trap ATTACK FROM THE FRONT.
Ect.

Its not fluffy for Space Marines to flank. Its stated specificly that the reason why they wear bright colored armor is so they can be seen by the enemy. The Imperial Guard or Eldar or nids should be gibbed by HMG fire and require flanking forces to win. Space Marines and orks just wade into it. Its their nature its how they are represented in the fuff.

[D-coy]

So they should be the two most imba races in the game? This is not fluff, nor TT, it's a game about those kind of things and it represents them fairly well without making units unfair.

[steve-1945]

Well you seem to miss the point D-coy

Space Marines are supposed to be overpowered. And the fans of this game seem to be screaming about how TT related it is. The orks need not be imba I was jsut using them as a example of the ork and nid mindset. They are not supposed to care about how many they lose.

[Aerundel]

You're forgetting one thing, steve. Just because the space marines use that tactic doesn't mean that it's RIGHT :nyah:

[Zepheris]

it's fine if they said they like slower combat (i prefer this lethal style myself since it feels closer to the fluff story), but it irks me when people are taking their preference and then uses that as a base as if it's the canon rule.

i mean hey... if a carnifex meets a dread, from tt point of view we're talking a Strength 10 (10 my dear, not many has that) carnifex with 2 attack against a dread that has armor 12 at best, armor 12 against strength 10? yeah right... it'd be more of a miracle if you survive since the only way you can avoid even a glancing hit would be a roll of 1.

and from fluff point of view carnifex are described as capable of tearing tanks open with perfect ease.

steve-1945: wait... unfluffy for SM to flank? WHAT?

uhhh ok my head is now hurting, please read some of their novel i beg of you... or hell just read some of the visual comic book really...

[D-coy]

@ Steve

Well ASM are already overpowered, so you might like them. :)

Seriously, think about it. How could other races counter SMs if they can wade into HW fire and survive? They'd just start killing the gunners.

[Mekztra]

It would maybe be an interesting aspect of the game if the marines didn't get suppressed by heavy weapons but took more damage or something, but it's good to have a bit of consistency with suppression effects, I think.

[stratigo]

Steve, where in the fluff does it say marines are retarded?

They don't actually charge from the front unless they know they can win. A space marine is too precious a resource to waste on suicidal charges. There's enough IG for that. Marines are comparable to modern special forces, not modern marines. They hit key targets and destroy them and let the guard mop up the majority of the enemy.

Now it might be true that compared to fluff DoW2 marines are a lot weaker then fluff wise marines and the marine army seems to be underpowered in this game does not mean marines should be able to stand there having brightlances bounce off thier chest plates as they brutalize the poor guardians using it.

[Zepheris]

but why should they be immune to suppression?

neither the fluff nor the tt ever describe them as immune to suppression.

so it'll only be gameplay sake if they were to be made that way, and that makes even less sense.

I seriously would like to know just where do some ppl get their knowledge of 40k from because some of the things spouted about them are so full of rubbish it's not funny.

[Elando]

From my experiance Space Marines are pritty tough ingame.

It takes 2-3 shots from an eldar ranger's sniper rifle to kill a regular space marine which is what you'd expect and even if they are majorly Zealious and rush stuff, their clever enough to know that if they get caught in the fireing line of a heavy MG their gonna die sooner or later.

Their tough but they ain't invincible...

Deadnoughts are the toughest things to kill from what I've seen which is about right since their basically a dead guy incased in 8 foot thick terminator armour.

Fireprism's are known for their weak armour. Their supposed to be support tanks, not wadeing in like a dreadnought. If a fireprism went up to a dread in fluff the dread would rightfully so just smash through the cockpit and beat the crap out of the driver.

Again with orks. They have cloth or leather armour compared to space marines. Orks shouldn't last five seconds against a HMG, just their sheer numbers and determination should overwhealm it. Sure they'll loose like half of da boys but they'll have won which is what happens ingame.

If you send 5 slugga squads into HMG you will defeat it but you'll loose like 2 or 3 squads of boys. You just have to have the right mindset when you play a race.

Eldar are hit and run.
Tyranids are just swarm.
Orks are just, MORE DAKKA/CHOPPA/STOMPA=Win
Space Marines are more tactical but arn't afraid to get stuck in if they have to.

I personally think they got the feel of the units just right. My only problem is that the bolter's are rubbish. They don't have the powerful feel of a mini-rocket fireing machine gun that weighs about 6 stone. And the rate of fire is stupid, its about 3 shots every 10 seconds. It needs to be more powerful or at least have a longer fire burst.

[Pocktio]

I think the bolters have finally been turned into what they're supposed to be. They seem to fire (Up to) bursts of 3 shells every couple of seconds or get fired semi automatic for longer periods. Overall I'm very chuffed with them.

[Rotlung]

When the enemy is weak ATTACK FROM THE FRONT
When the enemy has weak flanks its a trap ATTACK FROM THE FRONT.
Ect.To say a word in fairness, just because they prefer to attack from the front doesn't necessarily mean that:
1.) You would prefer to attack from the front.
2.) Flanking is the inferior option.

[Bowkers]

I find the amount of games you can plough your way through to be astonishing. Yet I never get bored, far from it. There will always be a slip that either my opponents, or myself will commit and that can change the game in your favour, whether slightly or massively. So I like the speed of it, because it's just like a real battlefield, things can change just like that.

[ZellFish]

Zepheris. You must know "im not trying to insult you" next to nothing of the fluff.

This generally is the space marine way of thinking

When the enemy is weak ATTACK FROM THE FRONT
When the enemy has weak flanks its a trap ATTACK FROM THE FRONT.
Ect.

Its not fluffy for Space Marines to flank. Its stated specificly that the reason why they wear bright colored armor is so they can be seen by the enemy. The Imperial Guard or Eldar or nids should be gibbed by HMG fire and require flanking forces to win. Space Marines and orks just wade into it. Its their nature its how they are represented in the fuff.


Right. So, Space Marines have been around smoe odd 10,000 years because they don't flank, correct? They just rush in headlong to the enemy like a bunch of drunken frat boys? You, sir, should read your fluff. Space Marines are elite, tactical deep strike units, used to infiltrate and destroy more often than not. They are not used, in fluff, in the same way that they are portrayed in DoW1. At all. And seeing as how that looks to be your only source for your 'information', (or lack there of), I kindly suggest looking further in to the issue, and editing your post accordingly.

[GRIM Ripper]

I'm not proposing they increase the hps of units or make killing take shorter. I'm talking about actual battles lasting longer then 10 seconds. If u read what I wrote then u wouldve seen that I think the lethality is fine. It's just there is no way to right a wrong or prolong a fight without retreating.

Because of this orks and tyranidw certainly don't feel very hordish bc their army is dead so quickly and u have to pull all the way out to reinforce.

I would like to see either

1. More ways to heal units on the field. Can we get medic units or field structures please?

2. Increase reinforce area of transports so you don't have to be right on top of them.

3. Have lps for req points, upgradeable to reinforce nodes for a costly price.

[meepnight]

Its not fluffy for Space Marines to flank. Its stated specificly that the reason why they wear bright colored armor is so they can be seen by the enemy. The Imperial Guard or Eldar or nids should be gibbed by HMG fire and require flanking forces to win. Space Marines and orks just wade into it. Its their nature its how they are represented in the fuff.

You are refering to the fluff of the imperial fists. Who due to this logic got their asses handed to them by the iron warriors. Not to mention your statement contradicts itself due to the fact that they employ scouts. If you read nightbringer, it details how the ultramarines pull back and flank a heavily entrenched traitor guard position.

[Zepheris]

GRIM Ripper: point1, that's what apothecary and orbital relay are for.

(edit: i think the whole point is that in a team the apothecary's assistance is needed if you want a medic healing your troops, they did mention that they are trying to focus the game into a team match and i can vouch for this because in a match we had before with my team i was constantly backing a warboss and his boyz and my healing essentially kept his force at 80% peak for a good part of the match until their artillery starts smashing his guys.)

point2, agreed

point3, not sure... though i suppose i like a way to lock down the req points.

[neucromaner]

IN dow1, i play FFA for hours. i need that in dow2 too.

[Troubleshooter]

IN dow1, i play FFA for hours. i need that in dow2 too.
Given the sheer lethality of the game, I can't see this working well even if they add it to the game-set.

If people are unhappy about the tech-pace and cap-tag now, imagine what it would be like in FFA... squads would be wiped out at first contact... it would quickly devolve into 2v1's based on random encounters, and after bitter experience, most games would be all about teching.