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View Full Version : [Parody] [Farseer vs Space Marine] 3x Guardian 2x Banshee 1x Farseer



SteinerNein
28th Jan 09, 10:19 PM
For the Craftworld! (Edited with more emphasis on chogoling speed up - aka I incorporated a new build in the variations list)

The 3x Guardian 2x Banshee is also commonly referred to as the M4gnetic Build (http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=445243) , but that's lame and very vague. This is not the Bisu build. This is not some nonsense theory-crafted build. It is the new foundation and manual for EvSM ever since the coming of the revolution.

It is the Holy Bible of EvSM!

Build is described in parts 1 2 and 3
Late game management tips and transitions in case the zer- I mean SM didn't die yet in part 4.
Part 5 is simply a variation to consider.

The Build - The Bible

* Simply, after triple guardian, get to tier 2 and go for banshees. After 2 banshees - produce falcons and pressure/attack the SM.
* 2 Energy Node, 2 req, 2vp, => Double generators at first or second depending on map while upgrading grenades on 2 squads or 3.
* The 3x Guardians is meant to deny enemy power. This build is meant to fight Neo-Kinderparty SM.
- Once again, I re-iterate, this build is to fight Neo-Saur... I mean Kinderparty SM.
- If the SM shows switch up (from Scout/Dev/Tac to 2x ASM), there must be adjustments made, and the following will be an explanation on how to do so.


1 - The Triple Guardian -

*The Build Order - Guardian 1 => Cap Power, Farseer => Harass natural enemy power node/req node, Guardian 2 => Cap Requisition , Guardian 1 => Next nearest Power, Guardian 3=> Float => Triple Power Generators! => Tech Tier 2!
*Key Points
- Have your hero run off to harass the enemy power while the starting guardian caps power.
- You should be over half way towards enemy location by the time fleet of foot shows up, prepare to engage!
- Minor variations dependant on map.
- The second guardian should be coming out before the Farseer engages! You should cap a requisition point to prepare for teching!
- If the SM aggressively begin to plant down power generators, then immediately go for grenade upgrades~ and begin heavy pressure/harassment - DO NOT LOSE GUARDIANS. Throw grenade, then hit the retreat button as soon as the enemy is near or FLEET OF FOOT to another direction and wait for recharge~~~~
- It is because of this most SM do not build generators and thus, you can delay on grenade upgrades.

* The Defence -
- 1 devastors = 2 grenades. More Devastators = 3 grenades. If speed up Tac Marine = 2 grenades, if mass scout = 2 grenades.
- In most scout heavy scenarios, 2 is plenty.
- More importantly is the sim city + Farseer/Guardian path blocking to not even let the Devs onto the garrison in the first place.
- Specifically, garrison guardians and then de-garrison before set up means delayed Devastators or negated devastors!
- If the SM does speed up to ASM then garrison and keep in proximity!
- Trying to conserve grenades will end the game. The SM is obviously poor so there is no need to feel like you must have 2-3 grenades for emergency.
- As money allows, replace the guardians that die.

*The Scouting -
- Is it fast tech or is it heavy tier 1?
- then, are devs making or asm? Then 'What is the resource timing for ASM'.
- Most zer.. I mean SM put up generators if they intend on teching.
- By this assumption, we can usually get a feel for if the SM plans on holding the natural expansion and teching or staying in long tier1.
- Depending on energy and req timing, ASMx2, Dev/Tac, Shotgun Scouts can be guessed.
- If you were breached by the all in, watch the replay with an emphasis on the SM energy+req timing/usage.
- Checking for Chogoling speed up is obv important.
- If the energy has been up for awhile but there is no ASM in sight, high probability of a chogoling break... I mean scout shotgun spam.
- If the scouting Guardian is caught and the SM is containing outside movement from the Eldar nat and even if scouting seems hard, you can't be still.
- It is good to fake Guardian or FARSEER movements in and out of their natural expansion to check for chogospeed (ASM or whatever + easy to harass/decap).
- If no speed up, fake guardian/farseer movement (Usually towards their nearest VP) and then FAKE JUKE TIKI BARBER that shit to the other side. Put specific emphasis on delaying Dev Squads as much as possible. Guardians can handle scouts!
- After the SM natural expo, if the enemy is towards the main, be very cautious.

2 - The Core Timing -

* Build order - (After Previous Build) - Banshee , Banshee, Upgrade Banshee, Upgrade Doom and Fortune, Upgrade Warlock Guardians on priority of most veteran, Power Node 2, Falcon, Falcon, Tier 3.
- Before the initial stage is complete, the next power must be put up to prevent power shortage.
- A floating guardian is always good for secondary harass or prevention of scouting.
- IT IS OKAY TO BE AT 3/4TH STRENGTH! Every Req counts now!
- Because the cost likeness in timing, you should prepare for a Razorback from the enemy which might call for an adjustment - aka get a WS squad instead of a 2nd Banshee.
- If the SM's tech is late (2x ASM , No Gen), Falcons are not needed. This will save you requisition in the long run and allow you to deploy SEER COUNCIL.


* The Defence -
- If unsure of the SM exact intentions, place guardian near enemy base isn't a bad choice.
- Pure ASM Break - Cancel everything that is still building or upgrading and push to tier 2. Magu Magu Banshee Banshee!
- If ASM are trying to fast break the power node, bring a Farseer up to the node and getting ready to delay the ASM and rebuild the Power Node - also guardian harass can wear down the ASM just retreat the second they get peaked at.
- If the Spess Marine went fast Power Node and the tech is SUPA FAST~ at about Tier 2 completion time, make sure your units are far apart and concentrate on area denial rather than defeating enemy force.

* The Scouting -
- The Falcon is better off providing cover and reinforcing than actually killing things - leave it semi rear. DO NOT USE IT TO TOUR THE ENEMY BASE!
- Just because ASM are out, don't keep the guardians in your main. Avoid the ASM and looking at the enemy positions is very beneficial
- Post 2x ASM, if no other ground forces but Dread shows up, expect that to the be the last breath for the enemy.
- If the enemy is low on requisition points, expect delays in between tech, upgrades, and units. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHAT UNITS HAVE ON THEM. He can't make mass Dreadnoughts!
- It is important to discover if the enemy has rebuilt generators status also. If the gen is already up, a tech heavy build will be coming to you (read: Vehicles)

*OMG! It's not a spire!
- If it's not spire aka gens are there but tacs come out, which the SM can't build anyways it's definitely going to be Tacs with Razorback no dreads.
- In this event, use your banshees sparringly due to THEY SHALL KNOW NO FEAR and eliminate scouts as soon as possible in any given battle.
- It is still possible to ignore it all and just go all in with banshee.

3 -Tier 3 Seer Council!

*Build Order - None! You should be winning! If you're winning, don't build anything instead prevent upkeep from accumulating and fight the enemy on current terms. You should then have a good pool of requisition in order to deliver Seer Council or Avatar while the enemy has nothing!
- Afterwards, produce sufficient power by finishing any missing gens and PREPAREeeee FORrrrrrr EXPANSION~~~.

*Fast Dread Defence.
- Even if you scout that it's not Dread, 2 banshees is still standard.
- As aforementioned, if the nat power node is made but nothing is coming out, it is wise to assume dread.
- Even with a banshee, without fortune or doom fast dread mutals will shake you up.
- Most SMs that go Dread with many scout. If the scout count looks low, poking him with your guardian is recommended (kill those scouts and fleeeeee~). (While denying).
- Either way, don't engage while scouts are present or you'll get your stuff raped by knock back! Decrease scout count increases lethality of your forces!

* Fast ASM
- Deceptively similar to a normal Kinderparty build!
- Forego upgrades on guardians and focus on banshee production with upgrades (Exarch first) and Farseer upgrades. Give up the idea of teching beyond T2.
- Make use of WEBWAY gates and prepare to nade ambush any decapping and possibly Banshee ambush.
- Make sure you scatter your units everywhere and decap as much as you can and harass as much as you can since they will only have a few units out. The weakness of fast ASM is low capping strength! Same can be said about devastators!

* Devastator spam!
- Make sure you figure out locations of the Devastators using hit and run guardians, SCOUTING IS SUPA IMPORTANT~~~~~~~~
- Use Farseer (who has godly regen) to bait opening fire and then to nade ambush/flank the Devastators! Make sure you retreat as soon as possible . DO NOT WAIT FOR THAT ANIMATION FOR NADE TO GO OFF IF YOU ARE LOSING FAST HP!!!!

4. - The Second Half Charge -

* Overcoming The Lair Timing
- Keep your guardians up to speed and make sure you pay attention to your units so they never get caught and butchered. Preserving req is now of utmost importance to cause slippery slope!
- Do not build anything that is unnecessary or excessive!
- Keep tabs on enemy power production

*Split Map Fights ("Tag with Nodes")
- The main way to win late game is to create a slowly tightening net - a drag net.
- Guardians will do the main work here.
- PUTTING WEB WAYS IN SEKRET LOCATIONS WILL COMBAT Scout terrorism!!!!
- If you control the center and carelessly expand, cracklings (a generic term for scouts with shotguns) will shake you up and ruin your pretty Banshees in a second.
- In preparation for doom drops on the field pay extra close attention to where your units are and how you plan to retreat them. Make sure that you do not BLOB! DO NOT BLOB! DO NOT BLOB! YOU WILL DIE TO DROP PODS!
- Be careful and please take good care of your units.
- Until you are sure of victory, do not go into the SM main base - some people overextend their vehicles this way. Especially don't smash into a FC/Turret line. Concentrate locking down the areas and saving requisition like it is a depression or something.
- Got money left over? SAVE FOR T3! or emergency!

5 - Variations -

The Hungry Build

2x Guardian -> delay -> 1x Banshee -> tier 2
vs
3x Guardian -> upgrades -> tier 2

- Power will be slower to accumulate and upgrades will take longer due to the tightness of resources.
- The benefit of this variation is that you have a bit more killing power but you are still VERY VULNERABLE TO ASM!
- This build is more suited for maps that allow easier time to flank.
- This build is better against heavy Tac openings.

The Hungry Build Variation

2x Guardian -> Delay -> 1x Ranger
or
3x Guardian -> 1x Ranger

- The benefit of this build is that you have a mobile suppress while retaining some damage versus light infantry!
- You can go without upgrading grenades for a little while and take out garrisons!
- With good care, Rangers can be used to take out many obstacles such as Devastators and other scout squads with relative ease.
- Due to the long range, you can use this for deceptive set ups!
- Use Farseer VISION to GAIN THAT EXTRA SNIPING RANGE!
- Also use Guide!

2nd Nat Pointers

- To preserve expansion timing, it is key to not lose the first force doing no damage to the SM.
- That is also known as suicide.
- If the 2nd nat is tricky to grab, like Jungle due to travel time
- If the 2nd nat is has no nearby garrisons like Jungle , it is better to plant power there than at the first due to Devas sneaking into garrison then GGing your buildings.


And... I think that's it.
I hope you guys show the true meaning of 1a2a3a to those pesky whiny Space Marines.

PWAHAHAHHAAH FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE!!!
No SM are gonna learn to wall against me and not have repercussions!


[This is obviously a parody with some pointers, you can google it to find the original which is probably 10x funnier anyways.]

Blargles
28th Jan 09, 11:42 PM
How about Farseer VS Ork Warboss
you go 3x Guardian 2x Banshee 1x Farseer
And i go
4x slugga 2x stikbomma

WHO WINS?

Inst
28th Jan 09, 11:47 PM
Well, I'm going to continue to rush people with aggressive Shuriplats, at least until they get nerfed in next patch.

It's not like Eldar has a lot of choices with build orders anyways.

ViS
29th Jan 09, 12:44 AM
I lol'd at this.

SteinerNein
29th Jan 09, 12:48 AM
ViS is also to be blamed for the 3x Guardian start.. it's what he uses or unless the ViS on Game Replays does not match the ViS here... but ViS is srsbsns =/

ViS
29th Jan 09, 12:54 AM
The reactions from that GR thread shocked me. I've been using a 3x Gu --> Shees build ever since I discovered jumping units and 'Nid commanders. I just didn't realise so many people would find a build like this anything but glaringly obvious.

Hilarious thread though. I couldn't devote the time into making something like this.

:DDD

SteinerNein
29th Jan 09, 12:58 AM
That's because everyone has a fixation on shuri plats - they're only pretty much good for tier 1 and then get nailed by jump packs and at most you only want one not like.. two or more =/

Anyways I give free wins for whoever can figure out where I parodied this from! I'm going to drop myself into oblivion from ladder anyways ! Trying to find a strat viable for tech marine.

Inst
29th Jan 09, 1:56 AM
SteinerNein, multi plats are much harder to counter than single plats. You can run up to one plat and nade it with Guardians, but you must flank against two; the support fire from its brother will eliminate your guards before they get within range.

However, right now, I'm doing only 1 plat with an attempt to quickly obtain banshees. Not sure how safe this one is, and I'm risking a 15 game winning spree on it.

Ryouichi
29th Jan 09, 1:58 AM
I should think getting multiple Guardian squads will be less useful in the future if Relic decides to continue on with the 15% decrease in all ranged damage.

However, I should say that I will still consider a well-played Eldar by far the most dangerous race I should face.

By the way, I lol'd. Sekrets!

Inst
29th Jan 09, 2:17 AM
The Shuriplat is getting nerfed, and about 40% of the utility of the Guardian squad comes from the ability to throw grenades (which has been implicitly buffed as ranged damage has been nerfed).

SteinerNein
29th Jan 09, 2:31 AM
I had a 20 game winning spree with just 3x guardians alone and never bothering with a plat. =P

So I mean either way, platforms (if you get more than one) seem wasteful as later on they become liabilities and also you still lack capping power. People can still easily flank you or do other 'fun' things to you.

But in the end all paths are successful, so it's whatever. =p

Inst
29th Jan 09, 3:00 AM
What do you mean Platforms lack capping power? They cost exactly the same thing as Guardian squads, but unlike guardians, never require power to be effective. Of course, unlike guards, Platforms have less members in a squad, can't retaliate with full power while capping, and don't have fleet of foot.

Just wondering, regarding the platspammers, do they platspam defensively or offensively? I favor using platspam as an offensive tactic. Sure, it'll be countered by later options, but up to that point your attacks will be very powerful and you'll discourage counter attacks while you tech up to shees, WS, or WL.

SteinerNein
29th Jan 09, 3:12 AM
Platspam is countered very quickly by scout spam ;(

Scout spam also counters banshee.

ViS
29th Jan 09, 7:08 AM
Scouts counter everything, ffs. They're one of the best T1 units aside from ASM if you use them right.

Inst
29th Jan 09, 7:25 AM
I was really surprised when shotguns without sergeant managed to counter my guardians with full kit. It's great that they'll be toned down next patch.

durecellrabbit
29th Jan 09, 7:35 AM
I've encountered a lot of good Eldar doing 3xGu.

BuBa_HoTeP
29th Jan 09, 8:17 AM
THnx for a good guide

SteinerNein
29th Jan 09, 5:45 PM
I think I will replace certain units with rangers now.