How to beat tyranids as SM?

[Gungalley]

Their capping power is unmatched. If the nid player is good, he can swarm you and prevent you from retreating quickly. They are very good at tying you up in cc, whch makes range very difficult to use. Synapse can negate suppresion I think, so I tend to not build devastator heavy bolters. And when they get that upgrade (I think its bioplasma on warriors) that shoots AOE goo that suppresses at you, I have no idea how to win. Any tips?

[LandShark]

shotguns are tremendous at keeping nids out of melee. use those and flamers.

dev squads are ok, but you want to garrison them.

if they get to melee range, retreat immediately or you will lose the squad.

[HotForever]

try ASMs with apoth healing. ASM chain jumps to stun and melee away :)

[Infidelicious]

Flamertacs and Plasma dev's. AoE is the bane of Bug existence.

[Winter_Wolf]

I am currently a rank 13 Tyranid player and in 1v1 I have NEVER been defeated by a Space Marine player. I find this very strange. I have fought between ranks 1 and 20 SM players and none could beat my swarming 'nids.

Honestly, this is not because I am some kind of great player. Orks, Eldar and other Tyranids usually give me quite a challenging battle but SMs just don't seem able to deal with 'nid hordes.

Devastators, flamers and shotguns have never helped my opponents either... I really want to know how SM players on this forum deal with well used Tyranid hordes.

Edit: No one has every used plasma devs against me in 1v1. Any reason why?

[Blargles]

Because you are still only playing noobs.

[Gungalley]

okay I shall try plasma devs, IF i can spare teh reqs, which in usual cases I cant. Btw, how does the game deal with melee damage against garrisoned units?

Edit: I doubt plasma devs can work. They are gonna get flanked and swarmed pretty quick. Slow ROF and slow plasma travelling time too.

[Sturmtruppen]

gaunts cant attack buildings at all, thats all i know... warriors idk, usually i just send a spore mine

[LandShark]

spore mines are thier best way of clearing a building, but if you keep some shotgun scouts close, or a razorback they wont have a chance to get to it.

@ gun. plasma devs need to be garrisoned if you cant protect them.

[Infidelicious]

Yeah. you keep them behind your main force. wait for the mob to engage then explode them from BVR. A single plasma shot can wipe a gaunt squad and take a warrior squad to 20%. It causes FF but plasma does a lot more damage to tyranids than SM.

You also need to Focus fire the barbed strangler warrior squad. There generally will not be more than one, because of how pitiful it's damage output is, but it is the lynchpin of the Tyranids IMO. Without suppression gaunts die too easy.

[Chris]

A single plasma shot can wipe a gaunt squad and take a warrior squad to 20%

Hyperbole much? Plasma isn't anywhere close to being that effective, I've nailed support platforms and heavy bolter squads with direct hits and no one died. If they took warrior squads to 20% in a single shot they'd wipe most squads out in a single hit.

[Inst]

Could be leveling issues.

[Bookoo]

Generally any ranged from SM isn't that scary - they can be tied up by rippers and then suppressed to kingdom come by barbed stranglers.

Generally shotguns and flame-throwers are your best bet. From there, a squad of ASM's to jump in and disrupt and point-blank nades at your feet will help make some distance.

[Goobers]

If you can get a Tac Squad with ATSKNF charged, they can wipe the floor with a good number of 'gaunts and Rippers. A pair of Scouts with shotguns and some Tac Marines with Plasma Guns for anything bigger than a 'gaunt has done pretty well against every Tyranid player I've faced so far.

The Apothecaries Vials of Purity are very nasty against all small things. Lingering effect and so far has instagibbed almost every single 'gaunt squad I've managed to hit with it. Makes for some real carnage when there's a heap ganging up on a single squad of Marines since it doesn't do Friendly Fire.

[Infidelicious]

It depends on positioning, but I can assure you it happens. It might also be on low level warrior squads that I just built.

[warlock00]

Turrets can pwn nids

[Diviator]

Like many people said before: Shotguns, Tactical Squads with this buff and Assault Space Marines. Be sure you don't waste the ASM, don't jump into an army of these bugs that is much more bigger without support or they will teach you a lesson (how to waste 550/30).

Grenades are also useful, throw them in front of you units so that the enemy can either retreat (and lose units) or advance (and lose units). Use vehicles only with supporting units. I see so many Space MArines wasting them in the believe once they are out they don't need to do anything more.

[Gungalley]

How do I defeat the carnifex?

[Goobers]

Same way you take down a Dread.

A pair of Missile Tacs should do the trick, just stick something between it and them if it has the thornback upgrade. Send your Commander in, buff the Missile Tac Squads and have hero charge it.

A Pair of Dreads will come out on top quite convincing, as will a Kiting Predator.


Or if worst comes to worst, give the Force Commander a Powerfist and forget about the whole affair.

[Gungalley]

Your assuming they have no other units supporting the carnifex.

[Chris]

I guess my advise would be to try and kill everything else first or at least force a retreat then kill the 'fex when it's isolated.

[GrimDark]

Today i met the bane of tyranids: shotguns.
Two squads of gaunts gibbed in seconds, rippers down to 3 units, hero running away at 1/3 HP.
They were stealthed, so I couldn't touch them. Apoth and SM were tanking. All at first skirmish.

Also, I made lab today with a friend.

Dread with assault cannon>venom cannon warriors, adrenal warriors (!) and in general everything tyranid till 'fex.
Dread with dark age tech>any Tyranid 1 on 1. 2 squads of adrenal warriors win with 4 casualties though. Fex with thornback usually dies too. Can take on 2 BS fexes on his own.

2 asscannon dreads make any nid player cry. Unless SM player has a bad micro and targets rippers and not warriors.

[Troubleshooter]

My wins vs. Nids have to do with activating ATSKNF at just the right moment. Just when he has mobbed your Tacs... let loose and you'll drain his units rapidly. Next... use transports to keep up with his gaunts. Sending scouts after points is a good way to get them slain.

Warriors with that damn suppression gun make SM cry, but its kind of slow firing, so you know its comming. My suggestion is to keep your HB devs in the rear somewhat tracking the action... keep your Tacs and scouts moving away from the nid line and hope to draw them into a fire arc... then turn and fight for all you are worth...

You can only do that so many times before they catch on, so get flamers on those tacs and go after the power nodes... keep them decapped (dont worry about capping them... just hold yours with maxed gens and keep the pressure up.

If you can get to tier 2 with you squads in tact, get squad leaders and make use of Nades and ATSKNF first... then get dreads with AC's. (one transport of map control is a must IMO.)

Shotguns for scouts is a no-brainer... just keep them out of CC.

Garrison buildings. Load up on AOE wargear. Work on your timing.

Oh yeah... and DO destroy Nid generators... dont bother trying to cap them. Kill them asap.

[Dexter099]

Take assualt marines. Assulat mariens are nice and OP, and can easily defeat a nid player due to ridiculous amounts of health and their 'jump' stun.

I've never understood why when jump pack mariens land, they knock everything down. the only thing touchign the ground is their feet.

Not to mention they pretty much maim everythign they land on or hurt badly enough so they can knock them out in cc.

[Chris]

I've never understood why when jump pack mariens land, they knock everything down. the only thing touchign the ground is their feet.

Because an assault marine probably weighs a couple of tons. I imagine one of those slamming into the ground right next to you at high velocity would be noticeable.

[Win_Imperial]

Against Nids there are a variety of thing you can do.

Good microing of scouts with combat shotguns will do the trick every time. I use a tactic early game involving my FC, 1 Bolter Scout Squad, and 1 Shotgun Scout Squad. I keep the FC up front to engadge the Nids when they come in for CC, Bolter Scouts help the FC engage in CC if there are multiple squads of Nids. Lastly, the Shotgun Scouts hang in the back shooting into the fray, knocking back and basically pumping Nids full of lead. Eventually the Nid player will get tired of losing so many bugs and will order a retreat. Requires a fiar bit of microing but works every time early game when fighting for those points.

Should look a little something like this when employed:
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk190/Winimperial/DOW22009-02-0121-06-11-92.jpg

Your other option is Tacs armed with Flamers. However I don't recomend this being used often because it requires you to get close to the Nids and will most of the time end up with your Tacs getting raped in CC if they are unsupported.

My whole general philosophy is that you need to have at least one cannon fodder unit (preferably scouts) to keep the Nids preoccupied in CC while you blast away at them with HBs or Plasma Cannons. It's amazing what one HB team supported by some CC cannon fodder can do to a swarm of bugs. The Nids will get pinned and 80% of the time they will retreat because Nids are as about as resilient as paper targets without their mobility.

Later game you shouldn't have much trouble, there are even more alternatives. Dred with Assault cannon will absolutley shred Nid swarms. Jumping assault squads with sergeants will rip up bug swarms and Warrior Broods. They can also do a number on heroes. Preds can decimate bugs with the amount of fire they put out as long as you don't let them get close to the Pred.

[Steakmancer]

Or use Apocs as a tank and take virtually no damage. It looks like a great strat using all the squads finer points, so good job on that. Also, do Shotguns deal more damage they closer they are? It seems like common sense but I haven't really tried them farther away than about a half a second's worth of walking towards the enemy squad. Usually when I'm doing that my attention is at keeping my scouts at that range. Anyone know?

[Win_Imperial]

^^Your right they do do more damage at close range and its best to have them closer. I usually have them closer, I just snapped a quick screenshot. However, I never put them too close to the mele because all it takes is a few Nids or a Ravener to shift over from attacking the FC and knock my shotgun shooting scouts out of order

[ViS]

Why the hell would you ever use ANYTHING as fragile as Scouts as "cannon fodder"?

[Win_Imperial]

Why the hell would you ever use ANYTHING as fragile as Scouts as "cannon fodder"?

It's a very simple concept. I need a unit to tie up Nids in CC while my HBs and Shotgunned Scouts decimate them. I sure as hell aint sending 500r Tac squads in to push and shove Nids in CC while my heavy weps have a whack at them from afar, so the next alternative would be the 210r scouts. The whole concept of "cannon fodder" is not sending your best and strongest units in to die. It's sending in the expendable ones. I also said that I throw in a FC in there to give them a better chance.

When I say "cannon fodder" I don't neccesarily mean that they are doomed to die. The Nid players that I've gone against have tended to focus their attacks on the FC, instead of Scouts. Often, I am able to retreat my Scouts out without losing the whole unit because the shotguns do such a good job of incapacitating Nids.

Even if I do lose the scouts, which does happen quite a lot when the Nids have a hero in the mix, I don't find myself so devestated over the loss of 3 scouts with bolters. the tactic I have described is mainly for use early game when rush-capping points. Scouts without upgrades and shotguns late game tend to have limited uses against heavier units that are thrown at me. I don't find it in my playing style to start building scouts in T2-3 when I have so many other units I can go for.

[Inst]

I think he's fighting terms, not horms. Tyranid can go mixed terms/horms in T1, and go dedicated terms/horms in T2 (T2 synapse granted by warriors).

But anyways, the best thing to do against Tyranids is to use your HWs aggressively, trying to push as hard as possibly before they get mortars, then use ASMs to entangle the mortars.

[FooF]

just got off a SM vs Nid game

'Nids are fast and all three Commanders have a way to deal with HB squads (Tyrant not suppressable/Rippers under synapse, Fleshhooks, Tunnel), however, they're still very necessary and you have to be aggressive, like Inst says. Pin one side in, at least, and you'll know they can only come from one side. You dictate the match at that point.

'Nids usually outnumber me quite early on and I usually only have my Apoth and HB squad when the inevitable Horms/Gaunts show up near my first power. If I can get lucky with the HB squad arc, my Apoth will try to tank up front and allow the HB as much time as it can get. Meanwhile, my Scouts cap power and try to get the ASM out.

My last game, the 'Nid player was too focused on my closest power point and didn't bother to go after any of the other 2 power points my Scouts capped while he was busy trying to wipe my Apoth out. ASM came out, jumped all over the Lictor, made the Gaunts run and the Scouts got shotguns. The HB squad (in a building the entire time near the first power) moved over to raze his power farm and that was pretty much the end of the game (of course it took 10 minutes for my opponent to realize it).

I did lose the scouts to stupidity on my part (capping a VP and and Horms shredded them when I was busy elsewhere). But I rebuilt them and got the Shotguns back which helps a lot against Warriors. Starved for power, I never saw Warriors w/AG or VC.

The first 3 minutes are so hard as SM, though. They can swarm your paltry troops very easy.

[caiphas]

ive always had a problem with nids with SM thats why i play eldar but when i did play Sm 2 bolt dev squads 1 behind the other for support nids get to close to first dev drop asm and hero on them the whole swarm makes it drop a scout nad gg

[Goobers]

Been trying to use Tacs more against nids than just the flamer but since they are so damn slow they just get permanently pinned by the Warriors, then refuse to fire after they shake the pinning until you move them a good way.

[ViS]

It's a very simple concept. I need a unit to tie up Nids in CC while my HBs and Shotgunned Scouts decimate them. I sure as hell aint sending 500r Tac squads in to push and shove Nids in CC while my heavy weps have a whack at them from afar, so the next alternative would be the 210r scouts. The whole concept of "cannon fodder" is not sending your best and strongest units in to die. It's sending in the expendable ones. I also said that I throw in a FC in there to give them a better chance.

When I say "cannon fodder" I don't neccesarily mean that they are doomed to die. The Nid players that I've gone against have tended to focus their attacks on the FC, instead of Scouts. Often, I am able to retreat my Scouts out without losing the whole unit because the shotguns do such a good job of incapacitating Nids.

Even if I do lose the scouts, which does happen quite a lot when the Nids have a hero in the mix, I don't find myself so devestated over the loss of 3 scouts with bolters. the tactic I have described is mainly for use early game when rush-capping points. Scouts without upgrades and shotguns late game tend to have limited uses against heavier units that are thrown at me. I don't find it in my playing style to start building scouts in T2-3 when I have so many other units I can go for.

Speaking as a TS34 player, why not just... Lose nothing with a bit of micro?

[Noble]

It's a very simple concept. I need a unit to tie up Nids in CC while my HBs and Shotgunned Scouts decimate them. I sure as hell aint sending 500r Tac squads in to push and shove Nids in CC while my heavy weps have a whack at them from afar, so the next alternative would be the 210r scouts.

I'm sorry but "fodder" is a tactic that I can't imagine working as the big humies. All of your units are expensive and they are all powerful. Why you would want to throw them away is beyond me.

Use assault marines. They are the best unit available to the marines at tier one. They have incredible utility and can counter most situations in tier one. Get them as soon as possible.

A single squad of ASMs will make every other unit you control much more effective. Not only will they dominate in melee combat, but they will allow your heavy bolters and shotguns to do their thing without getting molested by enemy melee troops. Throw a force commander in there and you've got a melee wrecking crew that will be very difficult to handle without some trixy micro.

[Gungalley]

Throw in an apoth and you can heal anyone they focus fire on. Barbed stranglers? jump your asms on them. Use grenades well. use purification vials.

[Win_Imperial]

Speaking as a TS34 player, why not just... Lose nothing with a bit of micro?


I'm sorry but "fodder" is a tactic that I can't imagine working as the big humies. All of your units are expensive and they are all powerful. Why you would want to throw them away is beyond me.

I'm not "throwing them away." They are serving a purpose. Like I said before, more times then often, I am able to retreat my scouts before the squad is wiped out because the shotguns do such a good job of knocking the nids on their backs and killing them. So I end up reinforcing 1 or 2 scouts. Big deal. I'd say the trade off is good when the Nids have lost a handful of Terms and the rest of their troops are in retreat.

Of course ASMs are going to be a better more simple choice later on, but they are rarely going to be available to you when you really need them, and that is when rushing the points in the first few minutes of the game.

[ViS]

You said your were sacrificing them because you didn't want to lose Tacs, a few posts back.

[Kurisu]

I'm sorry but "fodder" is a tactic that I can't imagine working as the big humies. All of your units are expensive and they are all powerful. Why you would want to throw them away is beyond me.

Use assault marines.

Because we're talking the first few encounters. No ASM at that point.

[ViS]

Retreat until you have ASM then. Map control means crap all in this game.