Star Wars: Imperial R&D

[evillejedi]

:bunny:---updated Feb 21nd, 2004 3:33pm EST---:bunny:

Discussion thread for HW2 Starwars

webpage (http://www.swrebellion.net/evillejedi/)


I am looking for help with:

AI coding

effects editing

UI

maps

icons




- 12/2/03 updated shots for fighters (images 17-24)

- 12/5/03 added concepts section

- 12/6/03 added more ships to concepts (imported to game but tex errors)

- 12/21/03 lots of internal updates.

- 1/4/04 updated for .15 beta release.

- 1/7/04 added FAQ

- 1/24/04 0.17 beta release added

- 2/14/04 housecleaning

-2/21/04 v.2 release


Effects
weapons: 90%
ship deaths: 5%

SFX
weapons: 100%
ambient: 5%

no shields yet

AI
works, but stupid

Imperial Ships


fighters: about 60% done with redoing them
still need to start on I-7 TIE phantom and A-9

corvettes: 100% done

frigates: 80%
one more frigate to model and then do LOD

destroyers: 90%
all destroyers except for dreadnaught are in, some need minor improvments


cruisers: 30%
only allegiance is modelled fully and tyrant, others in various states.

super cap: 50%
one ship to model and then LODs and some texturing

Platform & utility: 15%
most combat stuff is in but no textures still need to do lots of work here.

Rebel Ships


fighters: about 5%
x-wing in game

corvettes: 100% done

frigates: 80%
one more frigate to model and then do LOD

destroyers: 20%
MC-90 in game


cruisers:20%


Platform & utility: 15%
most combat stuff is in but no textures still need to do lots of work here.



Current release: version BETA 0.20 (http://www.swrebellion.net/evillejedi/download/HW2SWMOD-BETA-V0.20.zip)


still a bunch of stuff not finished, but slowly working on it.


Please keep discussion on Topic. Don't discuss rebel ships at this point unless it directly applies to coding. Also, The ship list is incomplete as of right now. I have made a few additions and will update is soon, please try not to suggest additional ships, I have too much work already :trix: Similarly, try not to get into discussions about "this ship from X is better than that ship from starwars" I'll have it moved to some other thread. :sniper:

All updates will be posted at the top of this thread so read it!

[Unicron]

I can host your mod. I have barely time to work on 3 mods at once. I used to work on a SW and B5 mod, both are in progress but it advances slowly.

I have a few rebel ships completed.

MonCal cruiser
X-Wing
A-Wing
Y-Wing
Frigate etc

I'll post pics later.

[NonameXK5]

your working on that Generals mod???

[evillejedi]

Unicron: I'll take a look at whatever you've got

NonameXK5: generals mod?

[NonameXK5]

oops sry read that wrong lol

[Moe]

Links are broken.

[Torgo]

not anymore

[Retroboy]

Since when is "this page cannot be found" NOT a broken link? :/

-- Retro

[NonameXK5]

works for me

[evillejedi]

alright, looking for someone to host the fighter pack, I can make a release avialable at nearly any time.

[BrettMan]

Someone host damit!!!!!!!!!!

What? Nobody wants Star Wars ships anymore?

[BrettMan]

Can someone host evillejedi's fighterpack now? Thanks.

[jomutz]

yupp just send it to me jomutz@gmx.de

[Delphy]

I can host it on mods.rn.com if it's not too big :)

[BrettMan]

Are they uploaded yet?

[evillejedi]

heh not yet, I have sent it off to be hosted somewhere, so it should be within the next 24 hours.


it will probably only work in skirmish mode because of the MP issues. So, load up skirmish and select imperial as race and hopefully it works.

There's a lot of bugs so read the readme. I tested the package I sent out as far as loading into the game and building all the units. I'm looking for feed back on if anything crashes or anything that doesn't relate to art that is bizarre, like the gunships docking behavior. (texture issues or weapon effects are lowest priority)

my favorite bug so far is the scimitars blowing themselves up with their own rockets because they hit the shields sometimes.


Things that didn't make it this release:
I-7 (texturing)
A-9
Space trooper
probes
Assault shuttle
stormtrooper transport
lambda shuttle
escort transport
assault transport (texturing)
TIE Phantom

[Damazig]

Hum... correct me if I'm wrong, but arent your models the ones made by the XWAUPGRADE team and Darksaber?

[evillejedi]

that is correct they are also being used with the SWNR mod version 8 for HW1, I asked them permission to use some of the models since they are such high quality. However, they had to be completly UV'd and the poly counts had to be optimized and then all of the hard points had to be added. I also had to build up the LODs so it actually took quite a lot of work. This was to expedite the progress of getting a SW mod out. Most of my fighter models are higher poly count and have lots of internal faces so it would have taken even more work to get those game ready.

[BrettMan]

Its been 24 hours evillejedi. Wheres my Tie Fighter?

[Unicron]

The mod is available for DL later today.

[evillejedi]

introducing the corellian light gunship, I saw something similar in dark empire (box with a corvette bridge) and expanded upon it. will fit between gaurdian patrol craft and corellian gunship.

http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/HW/concept/lt_gunship4.jpg

btw the link to the mod is in the first post but it will only be there until unicron uploads it, then I will take it down.

[Unicron]

v0.1 Beta available here (http://www.electronicvisions.net/misc/imp_mod_0.zip)

[thrawn]

*downloading* me likes fast servers :)

[BrettMan]

It won't work.....I keep getting booted to desktop when I start a match.

[thrawn]

Well, it works for me, and apart from balancing, placeholder textures, "suddenly there" building animations and hyperspace effects it's cool.

Bugs found (yeah, I know it's a very very early release and many things are not finished or even started, although there might be a few problemes unknown to the creator):

- wired thing with the imperial-vaygr flagship: undocking (includes finished) ships move to (and INTO) the factory until I set that little green flag
- ships build by the factory will just pop up out from nowhere
- same for hyperspace dis/reappearing
- textures on the corellian corvette/gunship, carrack and assault escort non-existant (probably WIP)
- VSD I textures not right.
- that X-shapped TIE has the stats and the name of the TIE fighter

[evillejedi]

brettman, put -luatrace in your shortcut and post a copy of your HW2.log I want to see if it is conflicting with something else

thrawn, can you explain the first problem better with undocking? the rest I know about.

need help on the popup building, the fighter factory is a modified shipyard hod, except its docking path seems to have died.

another thing is apparently Hiig AI is broken.

[Killmas]

things i've noticed so far

-none of the bigger ships aka SSD and ISD were buildable-they weren't in the build file nor was the cruiser shipyard
-i noticed that on the fighter's that only the left engine was on
-the modular cruiser's engines didn't work


the fighter's detail overall was amazing:thumb:

i havn't tried combat yet but other than itty bitty things so far so good:thumb:

[thrawn]

Well, the first fighters I build with the flagship moved into the factory, like the default destination point was at the same position. After I set a destination point, everything was fine.

[evillejedi]

thrawn- I'll look into that, I only noticed that they were hypering in.

killmas- no big ships yet (total zipped mod with big ships without custom textures is 170 meg !)
anyone know how to make multiple engine glows ? I have the hardpoints, just haven;t figure out how to assign it

[The5thElephant]

Well I installed it and it worked and stuff. Needs lots of work of course but good for the short amount of time. I'm just curious about something. I sent a large fleet of fighters at an enemy. And they were all in a long line flying towards it (ships flying at different speeds) when all of a sudden half my fighters completely wipe out in a HUGE explosion which has some kind of cross flare that repeatedly explodes until almost all my fighters are gone. The screenshots are crazy. What weapon is that!? And why is it so susceptible to friendly fire when firing on enemies?

[evillejedi]

heh it's called a rocket hitting the fighters shields. (scimitar or missile boat) it happens occasionally, I'll have to wait until we can change collision meshes to truely fix it. I don't know why the explosion is a long line though. I think it may be that it is trying to scale to fit the burst radius but only does so in one axis.

[BrettMan]

-luatrace? In the place of the -overrideBigFile or behind it?

[wolfman391]

Originally posted by BrettMan
-luatrace? In the place of the -overrideBigFile or behind it?

place behind it. Like this ...

Homeworld2.exe" -overrideBigFile -luatrace

[Killmas]

one other weird thing

i built a corellian gunship from the vaygar flagship and the gunship started orbiting the vaygar flagship with no way to stop or move it

[The5thElephant]

Also whenever fighters fire it appears as if they hit themselves constantly. I think their hard points need to be fixed or perhaps their shields.

[evillejedi]

okay fixed gunship movement and weapon effects look better (no red muzzle flash, lasers easier to see) also fixed AI bug with hgn computers and hyperspace has been returned to default.

okay so since hyperspace has only one animation because of engine limitations, What should I make it look like? It should be a pause followed by an extreme acceleration and then probably disappear; the reverse for exiting hyperspace. However I don't think that is possible. Obviously it shouldn't have the 'gate' effect. Suggestions?

[BrettMan]

My log:

Sat Dec 06 15:48:01 2003
UTIL -- filepath failure, path doesn't exists 'C:\PROGRA~1\Sierra\HOMEWO~2\data\locale\English'
Uing ..profiles\ for profiles folder
GAME -- Using player profile Brett
Changing from a 32 bit colour depth in winNT (5.1 build 2600), Service Pack 1
Using ATI Technologies Inc.'s 1.3.3920 WinXP Release RADEON 9700 PRO x86/MMX/3DNow!/SSE renderer (Suspected driver is atioglxx.dll 6.14.10.3920)
SOUND -- created destination [ fdaudio ], handle [ 4 ] with [ 48 ] channels created
SOUND -- created destination [ fda streamer ], handle [ 5 ] with [ 8 ] channels created
Build name: Sajuuk-Khar - AutoBuild3498 - Ordered by smmatte
Built by : mrbuild
Data path : C:\PROGRA~1\Sierra\HOMEWO~2\data
No mapping for font 'GenericSubtitleFont' - using 'default'
Resetting fp control word.
CmdLine: -overrideBigFile -luatrace
Starting Level: data:LevelData\Multiplayer\Deathmatch\2P_JADETH.LEVEL
could not find family Corvette_Kpr, All family names should be defined in data\scripts\FamilyList.lua.

Check that any families you've assigned to ships / subsystems / resources are defined in this lua file. -- FATAL EXIT -- familylist/76:! --stack trace-- 0x0048D7F8: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x0047770D: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x003C46B5: lua_error () 0x003C4749: lua_error () 0x003C47EE: lua_error () 0x003C481E: lua_call () 0x0046B2BA: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= ()

[Killmas]

brett you probably have i progenitor mod already installed

just go to data/scripts/familylist.lua

then add this

{
name = "Corvette_Kpr"
},


somewhere inside where it says buildfamily

[evillejedi]

In general this mod won't work with anything else because it uses nearly every file type. So it will probably crash out unless you remove other mods entirely.

easiest thing would be to copy out your whole data directory except the big files and animatics folder and put those files in some other directory, then put my mod in the data directory.

Eventually I hope to have a big file that you can use with a shortcut, but for right now that's not going to happen.

[BrettMan]

Okay sweet. It works great. I like how all of the ships move around during battle. They don't sit still like Homeworld ships. Can't wait to see some new ships, enemy AI and, of course, the star destroyer.

[BrettMan]

Oh, and is there a reason why my Hiigaran opponent's AI isn't fighting back?

[evillejedi]

AI for hig will be fixed next version, I sorta commented out a critical part of it :-p

[evillejedi]

okay next release will probably be around the 15th
should include:

Hig AI fixed (done)
Improved weapon effects (done)
normal hyperspace(done)
AI builds some ships
movement fixes (done)
stat fixes
hardpoint fixes

ships included
assault transport(done)
assualt shuttle(done)
Lambda shuttle (done)
Scimitar (done)
TIE Vanguard (done)
probe and prox sensor (done)
escort transport
TIE phantom
stormtrooper transport
I-7

the following ships will be added without LOD or textures
corellian gunship
lt corellian gunship
corellian corvette
system patrol craft
Carrack cruiser
Lancer frigate
Strike cruiser
fighter platform
perimiter defense gun
gun platform

[Vemarkis]

evillejedi could ya tell how ya got the ai build?(and also what ya commented out of higaaran ai, i got this problem to..)

[evillejedi]

well the fix was to revert to the original files, still working on getting building to work though, talk to slamoid he seems to have a pretty good start on it.

[komninosm]

Can I ask how did you simulate shields?
With subsystems?

[evillejedi]

yeah, limited to fighters and corvettes because no collision mesh editing yet.

[komninosm]

Have you found a way to solve the ship's weapon hitting their own subsystem or having no line of sight sometimes? Cause I had that problem sometimes and I don't know how it could be fixed even with mesh editing, unless you can somehow make weapon fire spawn outside the subsystem mesh. Maybe with weapon hardpoints out of it? It won't look cool but it's a start :(

[komninosm]

Have you found a way to solve the ship's weapon hitting their own subsystem or having no line of sight sometimes? Cause I had that problem sometimes and I don't know how it could be fixed even with mesh editing, unless you can somehow make weapon fire spawn outside the subsystem mesh. Maybe with weapon hardpoints out of it? It won't look cool but it's a start :(

[evillejedi]

hehe double post

you have to be able to edit the collision mesh, I've noticed that other ships will only shoot at the collision mesh. also if you notice there is about a 20m gap between a weapon hardpoint and the origin of the projectile. The hard point can be within the collision mesh to this distance otherwise it will hit the inside of the "shield" mesh or won't track targets. (I tested this by using a probe hod on a large ship and using a large hod like gehenna on a small ship)

[atomiccow]

from what i've seen in this mod so far, i'd so most of your ships are the ships from the age old Star Wars game, Tie Fighter don't they. well, still a great mod, good skins too for the fighters.

[BrettMan]

Yeah evillejedi, those fighters to look slick. Especially in Imposing Cosmos where there is a lot of light.

[evillejedi]

okay big update coming up. Just finishing up some stuff and waiting for slamoid to release the AI stuff (and studying for a MEMS (Micro-Electro-Mechanical Systems) exam)

it should include:

shipyards and platforms (untextured)
all corvettes, shuttles, and transports and fighters (done)
all frigates and a pretty good selection of destroyers (done)

I'm a little out of it, I spent from last wednesday till monday with only 18 hours of sleep to finish a senior design project. http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/layout.gif
it's a traction control processor and it doesn't exactly work :-p

definately gonna need a place to host this, zipped it's over 100 meg

[BrettMan]

Relic should make site for mod hosting. You and Slamoid are both in need.

[SvK]

I'm a few pages behind this thread :)
When someone pointed out that you were using XWAUPGRADE models, you said this:


that is correct they are also being used with the SWNR mod version 8 for HW1, I asked them permission to use some of the models since they are such high quality

Do that mean you asked the SWNR people, or the XWAUPGRADE people?

[evillejedi]

I've talked directly to the SWNR people, and I'm still in the process of contacting individual authors for the XWA stuff. (some of them haven't responded so I'm thinking they have mail filters) I'm not going to make another release available until I get permission from the remaining peeps.

heh btw SvK, if you want to provide some support with your formidable effects editing skillz it would be greatly appreciated. (using pretty much default effects right now but recolored)

[SvK]

If you want to comvert your mod to HW1, then I'm your man. I don't even own HW2.

[Swiftiee]

Sheesh, the X-Wing Alliance Upgrade models look even better in the Homeworld2 engine with all the shadows and stuff.

[evillejedi]

hmmm

Unfortunately Darksaber has stated that he does not wish to support any HW2 mod regardless if the same models are used in SWNR for HW1. I will now be using my TIE models with Lucas arts' XWA textures.

Next release is put off until for an indeterminate amount of time.

I am still contacting other authors to offset this loss.

[Sumyun]

This mod is AWESOME! For once I found it NECCISARY to build to the fighter cap! I did a match with about 7 Vagyr against me. I built 3 Victory I Destroyers, and filled them with TIE Fighters. I also built several squadrons of TIE interceptors, Bombers and Defenders to defend my Space station. As everyone knows, the fighters are pathetically weak right now. However, when my 130 TIE fighters launched from the VSD's hangars (Yes, 130, 9 per squadron, 5 squadrons per ship), and swarmed an enemy Carrier, it looked so AWESOME! I even told my VSD's to stop firing so I could watch the mayhem. Of course, the TIE's didn't even scratch the Carrier, but it was easily one of the coolest sights I have ever seen in a game! Props to you Evillejedi, for making this mod!

P.S. I just read your last post, is the mod ok? God it'd be awful if it was cancelled >______________<

[Swiftiee]

Originally posted by evillejedi
hmmm

Unfortunately Darksaber has stated that he does not wish to support any HW2 mod regardless if the same models are used in SWNR for HW1. I will now be using my TIE models with Lucas arts' XWA textures.

Next release is put off until for an indeterminate amount of time.

I am still contacting other authors to offset this loss. Darksaber is always so territorial when it comes to his models. It is understandable because they are HIS, but can't he be a nice guy and be willing to share?

[Swiftiee]

Hmmm... After seeing a pic of the assault shuttles, wouldn't it be cool if they were a capture unit with all those zero-g stormtroopers and all?

[evillejedi]

not being cancelled, just more work for me, so it does mean a delay for the next release. I'm pretty sure that the scimitar, TIE advanced and tie bomber won't be done for the next release. It also pushes back LODing for the frigates and delays other stuff. Right now because of tool limitations the biggest ship I can complete is around 600 m. I will include ISDs and victories in the next release but untextured (the funky stripe effect now on the VSD). I relly wanted to work on the platforms at this point.

space troopers (already have plans) :-p

[evillejedi]

http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/HW/warlords/ss00031.jpg

about same poly count (less rounded but more detail otherwise) as darksabers model with textures from a model (and some photoshopping) I should be able to do half the fighters very quickly this way. however it still means I'm not doing new stuff

comments?

[Sumyun]

Nice! Those TIE's look sweet! Any chance with the newest release they will actually cause some damage? Heheh :)

[evillejedi]

heh yeah, weapons are going to get a once over, blasters and torps are going to do more damage and turbolasers will do less.

[Rommie]

Originally posted by Swiftiee
Darksaber is always so territorial when it comes to his models. It is understandable because they are HIS, but can't he be a nice guy and be willing to share?

To put it quite simply: He's a big baby.

[Gank]

Darksaber is fully entitled to get pissed when his models are used without permission, especially when no attempt to credit him was made.

[Sumyun]

Yes, but evillejedi asked him if he could use the models, and I assume he'd give 100% credit to him in the readme.

[Rommie]

Have you ever even visited the XWAUP forums? He screams at the new people, screams at anyone who goes against him, hell he screams at anyone. He's a big baby. He knows who I am, and he knows that I hate him. I'm sure the feeling between us is mutual. His models are some of the best for XWA, but his attitude is in the shitter.

[Darksaber]

Oh look another asrehole who can't get his facts right

1. No one has emailed me regarding this matter
2. I found out from the Private Forums at HW SWNR
3. This is the PM I sent evillejedi in regards of this matter


I've talked directly to the SWNR people, and I'm still in the process of contacting individual authors for the XWA stuff. (some of them haven't responded so I'm thinking they have mail filters) I'm not going to make another release available until I get permission from the remaining peeps.

You may not know this but, I only give permission if I have the game my self, since I own Homeworld 1 the SWNR team have permission, but that doesn't mean that you can use the craft that they have, I don't own a copy of HW2 and since I do not intent to buy the game, I can't give you permission.

You will have to find another source for your craft.

Also since I made quite a few of the craft or been involved with making those craft, that are available from the XWAUP, that means those craft also.

Sorry but it has been a standing thing with me for along time, if I don't own the game permission can't be granted.

Again sorry.

Darksaber

Why I have to justify my reason each time some silly little 16 year old arsewipe like Kyle Walker (Rommie) spouts there mouth off is really starting to piss me off, I was going to reconsider my decission but you can thank Rommie now that I haven't changed my mind!

[evillejedi]

<edit>

regardless of what darksaber's reasons are, he made a decision and I'm going to respect that.

[JDMaster]

:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:
No Public Release?!?!?!?!?!?!?

:boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo:

[Rommie]

Originally posted by Darksaber

Why I have to justify my reason each time some silly little 16 year old arsewipe like Kyle Walker (Rommie) spouts there mouth off is really starting to piss me off, I was going to reconsider my decission but you can thank Rommie now that I haven't changed my mind!

Boohoo, cry me a river. Grow up already. I'm sure you were going to reconsider your decision, I'm sure you were. And for the record - I didn't bring this across boards this time.

[NonameXK5]

Dude just drop it ok i dont want him to stop his work because u 2 cant settle your differences so just drop it.

[Retroboy]

Guys, please do your best to work this out civilly.

Rommie, knock it off. You're completely out of line here. This isn't your fight. Any more trollage and I request your bannage from these forums.

Everyone has rights to do what they please with their intellectual property, and that is NOT going to put anyone in the mood to share it. Plus, namecalling doesn't belong on these forums.

It would be a shame if such magnificent models didn't make it into HW2, but if they don't, alternatives are always available. It wouldn't be the first time.

-- Retro

[FlyingPenguin]

What Retro said.

[Sumyun]

They are right. Rommie, quit it. The models DarkSaber made are his intellectual property, and he can do whatever he wants with them. I would rather have further releases of EvilleJedi's mod without DarkSaber's excellent models than him discontinuing the public release of it!

[Rommie]

Originally posted by Retroboy

Rommie, knock it off. You're completely out of line here. This isn't your fight. Any more trollage and I request your bannage from these forums.


Bannage? Trollage? Please. Boo freaking hoo guys. It is too my fight, this goes back a long ways - and if Darksaber wants to bring the fight here then that is his problem. I didn't mention a THING about it until someone else did. Oh, and the fact that they're his "intellectual property" doesn't excuse the fact that he acts like such a puke.

And as to why Eviljedi would quit the mod because I don't like Darksaber, well that doesn't make any sense, now does it? Think about it for a second...

[is cool]

No what doesn't make sense is you fighting over something as insignificant as this, Rommie.

[Retroboy]

WE DON'T CARE. You didn't start your fight over it here. You brought it here.

Simply because you think someone else is being a jerk about something does not mean you can be one too.

If you have something to add to the projects and forums, great - welcome to this place and more power to you. If all you want to do is rehash old feuds that started somewhere else, you're on your way to a locked account. Please, do not distract an excellent mod team and effort from building a product that a lot of people are looking forward to.

-- Retro

[evillejedi]

bleh

[Rommie]

Originally posted by Retroboy
WE DON'T CARE. You didn't start your fight over it here. You brought it here.

Simply because you think someone else is being a jerk about something does not mean you can be one too.

If you have something to add to the projects and forums, great - welcome to this place and more power to you. If all you want to do is rehash old feuds that started somewhere else, you're on your way to a locked account. Please, do not distract an excellent mod team and effort from building a product that a lot of people are looking forward to.

-- Retro

Yes, of course I did. I stated my opinion that I didn't like the guy, and hey - infact I sent Darksaber an e-mail telling him I wanted to fight over here! Yeah, you betcha! ... Obviously somebody told him, or he saw the site himself and chose to respond/defend himself, which there is nothing wrong with. It's over with now anyway, so EVERYONE including me just be quiet.

[Sumyun]

Well, with this hopefully resolved now, I have a few questions. Eville, I noticed that the TIE Defenders have shielding. Will the Captial Ships have them as well? And if the VSD's, ISD's and so forth have them, will it be possible to attack their shield generators on top of the bridge and take them out?

[evillejedi]

once I can edit collision meshes all ships that have shields will have shields (the subsytems are ready but without correct collision meshes they obstruct weapon fire).

As for taking out shield gens, I thought about it but couldn't come up with a really valid system that worked in the game. As far as I'm concerned the globes are sensors and not shield gens. SW shields hug the surface of a ship and are generated with small pole emitters that jut from the hull surface. so it would be pretty bizarre to have massive shield gens so far away from the area of the ship you want to protct the most (power gen and engines) I know it goes against established canon but it makes a heck of a lot more sense from a survivability standpoint. another reason why sensors would make sense at that location is that it provides a fairly unobstructed line of sight to most of the surronding space and is high enough above the engine wash to give a good idea what is behind you. Assumably there is extensive sensor networks along the spine of the bottom of the ship that would be used for docking and cover the shadowed area of the main sensors.

once it is practical to have inate subsytems I have most ships set up to have the following damagable subsystems

shields (obviously recharing protection, hull must be repaired by another ship or at repair bay)
hanger (prevents docking or launching of fighters)
bridge (ships coordination decreases)
sensors (can effectivly blind a ship to only visual)
hyperdrive (disables hyperdrive)
engines (disables movement)

[evillejedi]

Stuff I want to do before release of beta V 0.1
I'll release earlier if I can't complete these things easily, but I will have something this weekend (probably on file planet, it's going to be huge)

tie bomber
tie scimitar
tie advanced
LOD for frigates
fix hyperspace cost for all ships (currently based on ship mass with no distance component, suggestions?)
research tree (needs working AI)
get basic AI working (need help)

[Dræconis]

what can i say...

it's going really well, credit goes deservedly to those who made the models, because they are some of the most accurate i have seen in a pc game to date. nice work ;)

are you just working on the imperial side, or are the republic going to make an apperance in the not-to-distant future?

fan of your mod, already!

--Draec

[DarthFelth]

im glad uni cleared that up for all the people out there, i never thought that u MIGHT have to model to be a modeller :loco:

[evillejedi]

republic is planned for january.

alright, I need maya 3, I'm stuck with the current tools, and I really don't want to make custom collision meshes and do all the hardpointing anymore. If anyone can direct me to place to get maya 3 please PM me.

unicron stop posting pointlessly high poly models and get your cool progenitor uberships in game. :-p

[evillejedi]

AI works and it's vicious!

okay I noticed somethign really cool, when bigged the mod is really small (50 meg) :-p so I will be able to host it on my webspace. I'm going to drop a release sometime early christmas AM since I have a lot of the stuff I want in this release done. I really need to figure out why the enforcer and immobilizer crash on construction. THen I will release it to the world for everyone to find the <real> bugs. It will be released as version beta .1 so don't expect a lot (once again I could care less about most of the collision/texture/hardpoint/navlight/dockpath issues as that relies on me having maya 3.0 to get it to correctly import)
pretty sure that tie advanced,scimitar and bomber won't make this release. ( I have family coming over for the bulk of tomorrow)

what I really want people to find is gross stat imbalances, really funky AI behavior and crash issues.

this release will have nearly 60 ships about 15 of them are completly done or almost there!


Unfortunealty I may not be able to get it working with 1.1 unless I can figure that out too. so keep your fingers crossed as I will only be able to perosnally host one file.

[evillejedi]

christmas present to you all.

http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/HW/warlords/HW2_SWmodV0.1.zip

uploading now, but going to sleep, hopefully it doesn't die ( should be done by 4 am EST 12/25/03)

it's 60 ish megs and works with 1.0 and 1.1 with AI

remember it's really beta, so spam me with bug reports.

[thrawn]

The mod is really great, I love it!
Here is the first bug I noticed (well, no way not to notice it :P):
When I was just looking at my fleet in senman, my Allegiance was finished and *plong* the game was frozen so I had to end it through task manager. I think it has to do with that ship, because the freeze hit the exact moment the queue bar switched to the next ship in line after the Allegiance. Ok, now I get back to the mod and start building a new fleet (and save before I build anything big :))

edit: Tried again to build the Allegiance, same thing happens.

[Sumyun]

HOLY! This new version simply OWNS! I noticed a few bugs and balance issues, but besides that, it rocks! One bug was freezing. The first time I played, it froze about an hour into the game (It was too bad, I had a fleet of a VSD I and 2 Strike Cruisers and 2 Lancer Frigates), and while I was ripping some Higs apart, it froze and I had to reset my comp. The 2nd time was in the 2nd game at the beginning. As soon as I built a 2nd TIE Bomber, it froze. Had to reset again.

There is also a balancing issue. Lancer Frigates, which are supposed to be anti-fighter/anti-corvette ships, can barely hit enemy fighters or corvettes. Frigates and bigger ships are torn down by laser fire, but the lasers from almost any ship can not hit enemy fighters or corvettes. It was kind of sad seeing my NPC ally's ISD I getting torn apart by a 3 squadrons of Hig Bombers =P. But all in all, this mod is easily the best i've played for HW2, and one of the best i've played ever! It really helped complete my Christmas XD!!

[thrawn]

Well, after a few more freezes I think all of them are related to specific ships finished. Every time it freezed, one of the building queue bars just changed to the next ship in line.

[Sumyun]

Thrawn is right. 3rd game froze early into it as well. I was building a Support Cruiser, and had 3 Lancer Frigates in line to be built after it. As soon as the Cruiser was finished, and the Lancers began production, it froze. Maybe a way around this is not to que up different ships. I'll look into it soon.

[DarthFelth]

yeah i had the same problem after building a Enforcer, there were my fine ISD's blowing away a nice hig battle crusier, and it froze :(

[evillejedi]

I won't be able to look into the freezing issue today, however I did notice that it seemed to be tied to ships not clearing the dock path before the next ship was starting to build. Has anyone tried the empire as an AI yet? I really haven't tested it that much and reall want to know what strategies and ships it likes to use.

as for the fighter vs. cap deal. I've noticed that AI bombers with plasma bombs just obliterate cap ships regardless of what armor or health I give them (watch neb b's they last like two seconds.) I think that the normal plasma bombs have some really high penetration rate or something that allows them to tear through armor. The issue with the lancer is that I have the accuracy set too low for rapid fire turbo lasers, I'll play around with it to get it fixed. right now there are really two good weapons caps have vs star fighters. hevay turret blasters and rapid fire turbo lasers. I wanted to keep the larger weapons from having a chance to hit star fighters very often so the accuracy rate on those is very low vs fighters. also I set the accuracy low for starfighter weapons because otherwise the battles wouldn't look as cool (still takes one solid hit to get a TIE though)

[thrawn]

I figured a few ships out which freeze the game:
Immobilizer (as stated in the readme)
Enforcer (in the readme aswell)
Allegiance
Light Cruiser

Maybe I forgot one or two, and I haven't checked the Sovereign (was building it, but encountered a ctd).
Lining all the different ships up does not cause any trouble for me, as long as I leave out the ships named above.

Other bugs found:
- TIE Defenders kill themselves with their missiles (not always, but for me the bug is repeatable by sending a squadron of these against one of those scout squadrons the AI deploys along your border)
- the fleet carrier model has some large holes in it (yes, I know it's a placeholder, but the other placeholders don't seem to have holes of that size, so...)
- some of the larger ships (e.g. Implacable) turn their back to the enemy when getting into position, although their main firing arc is forward (at least it looks like it was when making a combat move in the direction of the target => lots of turbolaser fire)

Suggestions:
- lower the Lancer frigate's damage and make its guns more accurate against fighters
- if you can, please change the look of the tl shots. make them longer, because IMO those bubbles coming out my pretty ISD take some star wars atmosphere away


Btw: Keep up your great work, the mod rocks (I guess this is alpha status, I can't wait to see the first beta :D)

[Sumyun]

Take your time with the next update Eville. I really cant play the game with that freezing bug, even if I build my ships seperately, but you need a break =P. I've tried out the AI Imperials. They seem to focus on building TONS of resource collectors first, and no refineries. They also build tons of shipyards, mostly the destroyer shipyard. Then they crank out some ISD's and sometimes VSD's. Once and while they build TIE's and Frigates.

[DarthFelth]

yeah and fix teh superlaser for teh next release, but i do think a 400km range is abit much mate :p

[Caydr]

Is there any ETA on those major game-crasher bugs being fixed? I so desperately want to play this lol

[evillejedi]

once I figure out what's causing them, I need people to track down the causes :-p

[Caydr]

Forgive my imputence if this has already ben asked, Master Moddude, but do AI opponents perform well or at all w/ this?

[evillejedi]

seems to not crahs as long as you play agains vagr or hiig and don't build ceritan ships.

the AI works, it just behaves a bit weird (it builds ISD's by the bucketful though)

however it looks like the AI is what is crashing it, the ships that are known to crash if you build them, tempt the AI. To everyone that played, did the game crash on the enforcer, interdictor, allegiance etc. when you were playing with, or without, imperial AI? I also need to know all the ships that cause issues (do a -superturbo on a high resource map) I need to figure out why ceritan ships are being stupid :-p

I think it makes a difference. I need to track this down.

[Sumyun]

Your right! It is the Imperial AI. I did a 1 vs 2 game yesterday, and the only time it froze was when I finished building a Destroyer, and I think it may of been the enforcer. I'll go make a game soon and try and build every ship there is to see which freezes and which doesnt. Luckily, I have a skirmish savegame with a good-sized fleet so I can build up credits to purchase the more expensive ships =P

[NonameXK5]

Its a great mod but that bug about it crashing stinks.What i think is after about 1 or 2 hours of play the mod cuts off and so does the game cause i didnt even have any of those ships built and it crashed. Because one after 2 hours the game just went to windows and died on me. Also theres the bugs. And i dont think it is the ship ques or lines i guess its just the ships.

[NonameXK5]

OKi just did a 4 hour match... it seems to me those ships that cause it to crash are to reason and that 2 hour thing i sayed is wrong because when i was expirimenting with jumping ability i found out if u jump the ship before there out the line the game crashs so dont do that.
Also some ships eat up polys like crazy and some SD and SSD dont have backs.
The only way to get around most of this is too save ALOT.

[evillejedi]

by "out the line" I'm assuming that you mean if the ship hasn't finished the dock path route?

as for high poly counts, everything except corvettes and fighters are at highest detail all the time because there are no LODs for them yet, I should have the frigates, destroyers and cruisers with LODs done in a week or so (optimistic). Actually all of the modelling for imperial ships should be wrapping up soon. Then I gotta make some textures for the ships I haven't done yet.

I'm planning another release in a week that should fix most of the crashes and replace most of the placeholder meshes. However, until I get better tools, textures and the like aren't going to work.

:-(

Also have some more impressive weapon effects working now too. (screens later)




then I'm goign to start working on the utilities and platforms again.

[thrawn]

Originally posted by Sumyun
Your right! It is the Imperial AI. I did a 1 vs 2 game yesterday, and the only time it froze was when I finished building a Destroyer, and I think it may of been the enforcer. I'll go make a game soon and try and build every ship there is to see which freezes and which doesnt. Luckily, I have a skirmish savegame with a good-sized fleet so I can build up credits to purchase the more expensive ships =P

About the Enforcer: Yeah, it is on my list one page earlier (and in the readme :deal: ).

About the savegame: You don't need savegames with much RU for testing ships, just download the RU injections mod (search for it in these forums) and modify it so you get abut 100,000 RU every minute. That makes mod-testing a lot easier (and a lot more fun when the AI is set to hard and high unitcaps are enabled :D)

[NonameXK5]

Thats good to hear jedi ill be on the look out for oither crash and stuff to tell you.Other then that perfect mod espically with all the turbolaser fire filling the screen.
Where can i find RU injections mod?

[evillejedi]

heh just wait till next release, executor and other heavy ships fire turbolaser blasts that are 50 m long :-p

[Caydr]

MmmmMMmmmMMmmmmMMMMMmmmm......... *drools*

[evillejedi]

okay fixed the crahsing issues (I'm pretty sure) I just had to redo the ship files, which wasn't a big deal once I found that to be the problem. I put in icons for a lot of the ships so that identifying what you are selecting is easier (it's really messy, the icons are just bright green wire frames of the ships, and stuff doesn't line up exactly) I'll upload a non crashy version tomorrow so you guys can test it and see if any other ships crash. I did a 4 expert imperial AI game on super turbo and didn't get a crash after 10 minutes. (amazed the game lasted that long it was quite franitc)

As for the AI, they really like TIE bombers and don't build any other fighters. THe corvette and frigate strike groups are very well balanced. Since they have early access to big ships usually an ISD is thrrown at you near the beginning. However, they don't build medium destroyers very often (enforcers, VSD's)

to recap, release tomorrow will include (+ updates from last release)

file size should be about the same. (since most stuff got updated but nothing was added)

better weapon effects. (at least more impressive)
a few improved models (allegiance, dominator)
shouldn't crash (as much)
crappy icons for most combat ships.
other, little fixes

still working on AI and the weird turning around the destroyers do. (I think I know what it is)

[Caydr]

If you need help with any of the art, let me know.

[evillejedi]

really need some heavy effects editing and probably UI stuff

I'm pretty much set with the texturing and modelling

[Caydr]

I'm your man then :D :D :D

caydr@rogers.com

[evillejedi]

bah no release for a bit, found another crash. Also I want to get the torp salvos working.

as for effects, I need an explosion effect for a torp(100 m radius) and for rockets. the rockets should be pretty impressive (they have a 500 m radius), but not as crazy as the sphere ring. Muzzle flashes for Green TurboLasers and for Ion cannons at different sizes (10m - 100m maybe three or four sizes for each) (y_muzzle_flash or something looks like it should be good for ions)

also need some better icons, the next release will have al lthe support files so it should be pretty easy to just edit the ROT, if you need renders or anything I can post it somewhere.

[Caydr]

I haven't got ANY hw2 modding experience, so what you just said is pretty much nonsense to me... :(

Anyway, what I CAN help you with are the buildpics.

[The5thElephant]

Are you gonna make the ion cannon hit effect have electricity skittering over the hull (or as close as possible). Cause that would be truly amazing, and following the Star Wars universe correctly.

[Caydr]

I doubt that's possible... Same for shields, etc. But maybe there could be some sort of enhanced version of the bomber weapon effect....?

[evillejedi]

<grins sadistically> shields will work very well, all I need is collision editing, electricity effects, oh yes those will work too, just give me time. (however it will only be local to the hit, not the whole ship, that would require a crap load of work)

[Devvy]

surely you'd only need to do it as a local effect anyway (like in XvT), i think the only reason that happens at hoth is because it is a ground based one so is obviously more powerful?

[Caydr]

Sounds plausible to me! :P

[evillejedi]

heh, well after new years, a little 151, and watching my team get crushed in the rose bowl; I'm going to the casino to see if my luck improves :-p

So, no release for a bit (sorry about that)

however, I did finish off a few more TIE's and also added a salvo feature to strike craft that carry multiple torps/rockets. Ships like the scimitar and TIE bomber will fire a slow ROF torp/rocket occasioanlly during combat, but if you hit 'Z' and select a target or band box targets, they will empty their launchers (from 6-12 warheads depending on the ship). They will have to dock (or wait 10 minutes) to reload the launchers. The ability is active at 7km for torps and 9 km for rockets. This should make strike craft wings devastating first strike weapons, but at the same time it requires timing and micro-managment by the player so you wouldn't do it once a battle got going unless you wanted to target a specific ship. However, it does make it important to have starfighter screens to intercept the strike craft before they come within range. (most sensor ranges have been extended to 10-15 km) The weapons aren't particularly powerful, but a few (5-6) squads of bombers will cripple a larger capital ship (ISD). which fits relativly well within the universe.

Also completly overhauling the weapons. it should allow for stuff like strikes to be accurately armed.

hopefully the next release (probably weekend) will be the last that will be limited to the community tools and I should be able to get collision meshes, shields and textures for the larger ships in subsequent releases.

[xAceRx]

really good job, beta 0.1 is great so far! a few crashes (1), but this will be a great mod, thanks for your hard work.. :bigwave:

(1) - when i build a third constuction facility the game crashes, ie: mom ship, then say a scaffold, and then a frig. facility.. i tried a few different orders, like cruiser, then frig. facilities, but all with the same result. crash.

but never the less.. awesome mod, following closely..
thanks again.

:dance:

[The5thElephant]

Caydr I just ment a hit effect that had electricity like ion cannons are supposed to do in SW. I also think it is unlikely you could get it to follow exactly along the hull.

[Admiral_Hawkes]

Hi! A good mod, but i think there is much to fix.

2 big things: 1. When I rotate around the Battle Cruiser the game crashes

Call Stack:
0x0068F001: getLibraryID ()
0x0062287C: getLibraryID ()
0x003C4749: lua_error ()

0x003C4751: lua_error ()
0x003C47EE: lua_error ()
0x003C481E: lua_call ()
0x003C4A13: lua_dobuffer ()
0x003C4A34: lua_dostring ()
0x0063AC22: getLibraryID ()
0x0063998F: getLibraryID ()

0x0049095A: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= ()

Stack dump:
Exception encountered during stack dump.

2. I think the Tie Fighters are to weak. They are even to weak to dezimate a hgr bomber squadron.

But for a Beta 0.1 version the mod is very good!

[DarthFelth]

i think its unfair to judge them against base race ships, after all they should be compared to star wars ships

[evillejedi]

TIE fighters are built around the philosophy that they are dirt cheap, their untrained pilots are dirt cheap, you must build many of them to be effective. To that end, the prices of all fighters have been adjusted. I don't want the mod to represent the play balance that was in the Xwing series where a single star fighter could kill everything on the map given enough time. a TIE fighter will not be able to do much of anything to a combat warship. I believe that HW2 fighters are significantly armored and armed ships, more along the lines of rebel fighters.

[The5thElephant]

You are right evillejedi, but a squad of TIE fighters according to the SW universe should easily be able to decimate a bomber squad or even a Y-Wing squad unless the enemy pilots were extremely skilled (doesn't apply to games tho).

[Zeelich]

One suggestion, if it's possible: Make the the Bombers weapons less acurate against fighters.

You can change a weapons accuracy in HW2 right? I'm sure I've seen it somewhere. :)

[evillejedi]

weapons are going to get a rebalance (I already have the weapon code in, but I need to fix all of the ships)

One of the things I have to consider is the tendancy for starwars weapons to miss a lot (it makes it look cooler) so the accuracy for ties is very low but the weapons will kill in one or two hits when they happen. I'll look into it.

As for the bombers, it may be their concussion missiles that are hitting the fighters, torps turning rate is slow enough that a corvette will be able to dodge out of the way if it is turning. With the new salvo ability all of the heavy strike craft should be more balanced.

one more crash bug to worry about then I'm posting v.15

[The5thElephant]

Well proton torps should be able to hit fighters (Except maybe defenders or A-wings) and concussion missiles even easier, but often they say that proton torps are slower than they actually are (in the Xwing and TIE games the torps were way too slow).

[evillejedi]

yeah torps should be able to hit fighters, however it's a high yeild weapon and you wouldn't waste it unless you can get a few ships in its blast. so in a head on or a chase situation the torp will hit, but it can't turn very well. Since squads stick together in these manuvers it has a high chance that it will take a few out (blast radius in game is about 100 m, squad seperation is around 20m )



bah, one weird error and some random crash error that pops up. I'm going to package it up and send it out so you guys can find the bugs. One of the bugs seems to be video card related, so if you have a 64 meg card don't run at high res, stuff gets messed.

[evillejedi]

send in the bug reports.

http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/HW/warlords/SW_HW2_V0.15.zip

[spacemoose]

downloading...

[spacemoose]

how can i install that ru injection mod so i don't have to harvest all the live long day to build stuff. i'm runnin xp (if it matters) and it doesn't have the folder that I'm supposed to put this file into.

[thrawn]

just create the folder ;)

edit: you should also add a few more RU options with higher injections, because with the highest stock number (10,000 RU per 5 minutes I think) you can easily find yourself running out of ressources while testing the SW mod against a hard opponent

[The5thElephant]

evillejedi, yes the torps are high yield, but they do not have such a huge blast radius (or at least the ships don't fly that close together normally). In the Rogue Squadron and Wraith Squadron series they commonly used torps at the start of engagements to better the odds and it was rare a torp would take out more than one fighter, even with proximity explosions. With a loudout of 6 torps to an X-wing, that is a fast ability to kill 6 fighters already (a lot in a Star Wars battle environment) or a few fighters and still have capital hitting ability.

edit: oh just so you know, you can ask me pretty much anything about Star Wars, expecially the technology, I will know.

[spacemoose]

ahh, gotcha. i'm on it.

[thrawn]

1st bug report: Again it freezes :(
This time it *might* have been the scaffolding being completed, although it worked in version 0.1

[spacemoose]

i was able to build the scaffolding OK. it did drop to desktop when I clicked on the launch button to see what I had docked in the MS.

[rgreat]

Mod run ok for me.
But i get no sound at all.
Without mod sound is present.

Any ideas?

[DarthFelth]

hmm, guess im gona ahve to d/l this baby and see how she looks, i hope the ISD's act normal :p

[spacemoose]

they work rather well at blowin stuff up.

although I noticed something about their hangar bay: its too small to fit a corellian corvette into. isn't that corvette the one that they tractor beamed into the hangar at the beginning of episode IV? so shouldn't it be able to fit? not that you seem to be able to dock corvettes anyway, but in terms of continuity, it should be big enough to.

[evillejedi]

heh ever noticed that the flooplan of the millenium falcon would have a hard time squeezing into the hull (let alone the engines and other systems) however the bay is 192 m long on the ISD model and the corvette is around 186 m so it would fit with some really good piloting :-p

As for docking ships. I decided to make light corvettes < 50 m dockable (It may not work in this version) and make the larger ships a different dock class. so maybe you will be able to dock one corvette or gunship evenutally, not sure about dock paths yet though so I haven't looked into it.

[Valor_Knight]

If you are able to limit production to 1 per game would you do the heros? ie Luke, Han ect.. Vader in their special ships? have them build out of a special ship.. I dont know i just would like to use Han and the Mellinum Falcon..

[Magus]

I played around with the capships here, not too much with the fighters

Good things: Sounds: Nice weapons fire sounds
Weapon fire: good work with the lasers, though some should be red.
Ships: The ones that are properly textured look incredible
UI: The changes make it look cleaner

Problems: Weapons: Many smaller ships (easy to see in the corellian corv) fire many weapons straight forward, even when trying to attack things at an angle. Likely, the weapons are set to fixed instead of gimble.
Texture Hell: The reworked HW2 textures, like on Executor, should be replaced with the more blank ones on the Implacable, at least until they get their real textures. Currently they're just an eyesore
Shipyards: In the build list, all the shipyards: Fighter, Frigate, Destroyer, and Cruiser, are called Shipyard. Give them different names

Questions:
Ion Cannons: It didn't appear that Ions do EMP damage. Is it just not done or not going to be done.
Hyperspace: Is hyperspace going to be free when your finished, or is it just for testing purposes? If its permanet, give the ships a large disable time after hyperspace exit
Flak: Are Lasers meant to have flak bursts when they fire?
Subsystems: Will cap ships have subsystems in the final version?

Ship Issues:
When I tried to capture a vaygr shipyard with omicron transports, they latched on inside the mesh. I have a screenie of about 18+ squads of vaygr bombers trying to shoot them through their own shipyard's hull.
Neb-B's are nearly impossible to hit with missiles. One was able to kill 3 from a group of 8 with about 20+ missiles swirling around the center pole.
Corellian Picket ships need editing to their combat behavior. In a battle one flew more than 5 km out on an attack pattern

[Valor_Knight]

Im waiting for the final since i only have 34kbs connection - could you post whats ships are avalible for each side and what they do??

[evillejedi]

valor_knight: If the mod had a SP component then there would be hero's. However I can't justify them being in a MP game and "buildable" some how that just seems corny as heck (and what would they really do? be so uber that you would only use them?)

magus

for laser fire I am going to make a distinction between imperial and non imperial units by saying that the imperials mix their tibanna gas so it's green. (assumably this would be better logistically, a corellian ship would be using the same gas a KDY vessel whould be using. etc.)

the weapons issue is because the hardpoints are set with 'latitude' rather than 'muzzle'. the weapons are all set as turrets that need to be. I finished the corvettes and frigates before realizing this. it should be fixed by v0.2 and for sure once I start importing ships through maya (gettign there)

I know the textures are ugly, however if I try importing textures to a hod with dock paths I get corruption of the hod (collision mesh, glow chunk and dockpaths get truncated) SInce most of the ships have UV's I can't stretch the tex either (implacable has no uv's and is actually repaeting the tex a few thousand times.

thanks for noticing the shipyards I must have skipped that.

ships should have subsystems once I get maya importing working.

I think the capture points need to be moved futher away from the omicron transport model (capture frigates are a lot bigger)

hmm I'll look into neb-b's, in my experience they are the first ships to go down because the AI likes killing frigates. it may be a collision issue. Similarly the picket ships may be using old movement code that causes them to orbit their target (low main engine accel and speed with high thruster accel and speed causes this)



he brought up a lot of good points. So I'm wondering what other people thing should be done with the following.


ion cannons:
ion cannons work (build the ion platform :-p) they just have shorter range than the equivalent Turbolaser. This was mainly for balance because it made you engage your ships closer to bring more weapons to bear. I would like comments on whether I should change this. some ships in the game do not have emp entries and are therefore immune. (the emp health bar seems to popup at weird times too.) should the ion cannon range be shorter?

Hyperspace:
currently the plan is to make HS a flat rate based on the tonnage of the ship. Also larger ships will have longer reversion times. I also plan to make a minimum jump distance so that you can't hop all over the place (15 km or so) the rate will be cheap enough to encourage people to use it, but expensive enough that when you want to move a fleet to attack you will have to plan for it a little (an ISD may be around 50 ru's)
does this pricing seem reasonable?

flak explosions:
currently I have the flak explosions because they are occasionally evident in the movies. My personal judgment is that SW 'lasers' are actually magnetically contained plasma projectiles and not just photons like a laser would be. When the field breaks down the plasma is released and rapidly cools in the vacuum. if people think it should differnt I'm not going to argue because if something else looks cooler and is more in line then I will use it.

subsystems:
what complexity of subsystems should be implemented. I know that I can implement engine, hyperdrive, bridge, power gen, sensors and sheild gens. THere is the possibility of hangers also. should this level of complexity be only on larger ships? or should stuff like a gunship have maybe an engine subsystem but nothing else?

I'm goign to post a FAQ about the ships tomorrow because enough people have asked.

[thrawn]

my suggestions:

ion cannons:
Trying to balance a weapon before it works against every ship is IMHO pointless, so first solve the problemes with the EMP bar and add the entries.

Hyperspace:
I'd go with the flat rate idea, because in the X-Wing series books (EU) they say travelling through hyperspace doesn't consume much fuel at all, while I guess entering it might take a lot more.

Flak explosions:
A very bright flak effect should be closest to the movies (like the hit effect when the Falcon tries to escape the Executor in TESB).

Subsystems:
Since I don't like too much micro-managment, I would go with the full system list for largest ships (SSD, Home One etc.), a few systems (engines (sublight and HS), sensors, and bridge) for VSD and upwards, only engines (maybe sublight and HS combined into one subsystem) for light caps hips (Carrack) and nothing (besides shields, of course) for anything smaller. Seriously, in a full scaled battle I won't give every single ship a special firing order so I can disable those 20 Correlian corvettes (which would not be easy when playing multiplayer because you can't just pause the game for it) while there are ISDs (or even worse) coming at me.

[Magus]

For subs, keep in mind you can make ships automatically attack subs using attack priorities. That way you could have every gun on a SSD be its own subsystem (though not easily ;)), and have fighters automatically go around knocking out turrets

[thrawn]

Originally posted by Magus
For subs, keep in mind you can make ships automatically attack subs using attack priorities. That way you could have every gun on a SSD be its own subsystem (though not easily ;)), and have fighters automatically go around knocking out turrets

Oh, I didn't know that. Makes me wonder why it isn't in vanilla HW2. Or is there a mod adding automated subsystem attack to it?

[Caydr]

K, a couple ideas for uber-modder-man-dude-guy:

I don't know if you've thought of this yet, but when ships go to hyperspace, it'd be nice if they had to accelerate to top speed first... Another thread somewhere here mentions a means of doing this.

Also, the hyperspace effect should be UBER-FAST so it's not so homeworldy... agreed?

[Caydr]

K, a couple ideas for uber-modder-man-dude-guy:

I don't know if you've thought of this yet, but when ships go to hyperspace, it'd be nice if they had to accelerate to top speed first... Another thread somewhere here mentions a means of doing this.

Also, the hyperspace effect should be UBER-FAST so it's not so homeworldy... if it's there at all. Ships should just sorta accelerate and disappear... Agreed?

[DarthFelth]

well still random crashs now, gona see if i can figure this is, wounder if its something to do with hyperin 2 much, be cool when u get maya workin so u can load these ships as i noticed the supershipyard has a huge polly count and thats what casuse texture corruption, i also dont think u need a Cruiser Yard and a Destroyer yard in your mod, perhaps u should cut down on the amount of different production buildings.

Also i think your fighter sqaudrons that i have tested are better sizes, well the advanced fighters anyways, however fighters still kill erm selfs, such as the Tie Avenger when they fire torps. also the Vengence acts abit wierd when it attacks, i noticed it tried to turn round, bit odd,

Like the models that are textured, not to sure on the Interdictor and the Enforcer textures, but hey its only a beta.

The mod plays pretty well part for random crashs, its lookin very good so far, once u get everything loded right i think you will have the best hw2 mod about, how ever i think you should add the V38 phantom Ties, they are a nice and different tyoe of fighter for your mod, was thinkin, do you think the problem with torps is to do with the squadrons sizes or is it just that the fighters fly 2 close together.

Anyways cant wait till your next version, keep up the good work dude, catch you AIM at some point dude.

[DarthFelth]

also Tharwn i see your point with micro managment, but i mean, sometimes little things like that can add that little extra to the mod, besides if u dont like it, i say just dont aim for erm. I also noticed last release that Imperial ships seemed pretty usless at targettin subsytems

[thrawn]

Originally posted by DarthFelth
also Tharwn i see your point with micro managment, but i mean, sometimes little things like that can add that little extra to the mod, besides if u dont like it, i say just dont aim for erm. I also noticed last release that Imperial ships seemed pretty usless at targettin subsytems

Sure, I don't have to use it. But if only 1% percent of the mod users (no real number based on anything, I know there are quite a few who like micro-managment) would use it and eviljedi wouldn't use it himself, it would be better to first finish the things which most people feel are more important. After all, we don't pay modmakers for certain features like we do (well, some don't, but let's forget about them) pay game developers like Relic.
Well, when I wrote that comment I didn't know the AI could be made attacking subsystems on it's own, so my argumentation is obsolete anyways.

[DarthFelth]

well i personaly would use it against human players, i wouldnt bother against comp players, also i will say at the moment it is abit pointless as imperial ships can hit their own subsystems (ie fighters firing missiles) but i mean when that is solved i think it would be great, also alows for like random hits which could take out say the engines, which u have never been able to do in a homeworld game before, and before i get quoted, engines was just a example, u could take out other things with luck as well :p. Besides what would be nice is a little a-wing raming the bridge of the Executer for fun :D

[evillejedi]

I would definately be using the subsytems to kill grav wells and HS on big ships :-p (aw an SSD with no HS)

[Gank]

Just thought I'd point out that the Dreadnaught model you're using is not from SWNR as credited in the readme its actually Darksabers, and afaik, though I may be wrong, Zeelich hasn't given you permission for any SWNR ships to be used yet.

Edit: I see you're looking for Matts email, you could try posting a message at the xwau forums, I'm sure he'd see it there and answer you.

[evillejedi]

thanks for the heads up,
After checking the dread I see that I read the entry wrong, fixing now.

[spacemoose]

would it be possible to link subsystems to create this scenario:

you take out shield gens and then target the bridge (which would normally be untargetable or invincible), don't give the bridge much health, but make it REALLY hard to hit (and only by kamikaziing a-wings...hehheh). might be impossible or too much trouble, but it would be a cool desperation attack that you could use when a SSA or something is decimating your fleet.

other than that, it seems pretty stable, but I haven't been able to play that much.

[SvK]

You're using Darksaber's Dreadnought? When did Darksaber buy HW2?

[evillejedi]

svk: that issue has already been corrected, I had credited the wrong person.

[spacemoose]

there are frequent crashes when hyperspacing. also, if you get a lot of fighters engaged on screen and zoom in it seems to dump out.

[evillejedi]

spacemoose, what video card do you have (how much memory, chipset) and what res are you running at?

[thrawn]

Originally posted by evillejedi
I would definately be using the subsytems to kill grav wells and HS on big ships :-p (aw an SSD with no HS)

I was writing about very small ships (e.g. Corellian Corvette).

[spacemoose]

i'm running a 1.6GHz w/ 512MB on a ge4MX 440 (don't know if its 64 or 128) running at 1024x768.

also, i've noticed the ai's affinity for enforcers (builds them in bunches). plus the light cruiser seems to lock up the game.

man this thing is fun. keep up the good work. i can't wait for the rebel stuff.

[evillejedi]

thrawn: yeah for stuff the size of corvettes it doesn't make a lot of sense unless the ships auto attack subsystems. Even in that case the collateral damage would probably destroy the ship.

space moose: hmmm it might be a video memory issue, the RDN docs talk about texturing becoming a problem with large image files, and since the tga's are not compressed it is really taxing video mem. also since the mips may or may not be there, I think the game is trying to load textures that aren't in memory yet and throwing an exception (umm I thought AGP was supposed to fix this) do you get a funny greying of the screen right before it crashes or does it conk out instantly?

yeah I think light cruiser is borked

[NonameXK5]

just a Q but are u adding the Eclispe?

[evillejedi]

I've thought about it. However, if it does make it it will be very expensive as it will be able to outgun an executor class ship in conventional weaponry and also have a superlaser. The question is, what exactly are you going to be using it against :-p

[DarthFelth]

planets.....

[NonameXK5]

....how bout EVERYTHING! lol i dont know because the rebels dont have a eqivilent to it so i dont know lol.

[Falleen9]

Can someone re-upload the mod i can't download it.

Also this mod is great, since i have gotten homeworld 2 i've been looking for star wars mods you guys have really come throu thx.

[Falleen9]

Also anyone can email me at falleen8@Hotmail.com about star Wars questions.

Rebs don't have the equivelent of a eclipse, but the eclipse 1 didn't get destroyed by a ship the clone emporer palpitine destroied it when his forcestorms went out of controll. R2D2 Destroied The Eclipse 2 when he crashed the imp galaxygun into it.

[evillejedi]

heh exactly, however I probably will add it, it's not high priority though. just expect it to be tremendously costly

the d/l link was taken down to address some crash issues and fix other things. It should be up again in a few days.

[NonameXK5]

dont u just love R2D2? lol

[evillejedi]

been working on these for SWNR but they will be used for the HW2 mod also

Imperial research station (WIP)

http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/HW/concept/research1.jpg

resourcer

http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/HW/concept/mole1.jpg
http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/HW/concept/mole2.jpg
http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/HW/concept/mole3.jpg

[thrawn]

Originally posted by evillejedi
been working on these for SWNR but they will be used for the HW2 mod also

Imperial research station (WIP)

http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/HW/concept/research1.jpg


Cool thing, I always liked the stations from HW1 more than those little boxes attached to your ships.
About the ressourcer: I like it, too, but what is it? A mole miner?

[Destraex]

Does the ETA still stand for the second BETA. I did not get to download the first BETA so am looking forward to this next one.

EvilJedi; I really have great respect for the way you handled the earlier model misunderstandings in this thread.

[Falleen9]

what was the ETA for the 2nd beta anyway?

oh by the way for those who play star wars galaxies look up Ruyo Takenseda on Naritus.

[Destraex]

ETA for BETA 2 was 15th I think a couple of days away

[evillejedi]

<looks at huge list of stuff> might be more like the 17th and version 0.17 :-p

a few new models, we'll see how much I get done.
working on the weapon balancing and hyperspace.

no icons.
Cadyr you still up for doing the icons? I can give you link to a template to speed that up.

maya stuff is being a pain so it will be a bit before I get that stuff going.


I posted this earlier but didn't mention it, an uber crappy
FAQ (http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/HW/warlords/FAQ.htm)

also looking for ideas on how to do the research tree, right now I was thinking of having research by class and also research for weapons and stuff like grav wells. I'm not to concerned about upgrades (probably won't have a 'makes ships fast or have more armor' type of research) need ideas. (use the shiplist in the FAQ if you have a idea for a full research tree)

two things to add to the ship list

eclipse: uber command ship
mole miner: cheap and fast dedicated resourcer (no repair or salvage, less capacity but faster harvest)

[Destraex]

in that case who has a link to the old version, i'd like to play this before my holidays from work are over.

Thanks for the update eviljedi ;) kool

[thrawn]

My idea for researching would be new ship revisions. In EU there are at least 2nd revisions for the X-Wing and A-Wing.

[spacemoose]

maybe you could do "researching" that was really just advancing through rank, so that when you started as a lieutenant you only had a few ship classes/levels available, but then as you progress you got access to larger and more advanced ships.

[Destraex]

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12804

Is this the sort of thing you mean eviljedi

A techtree that lists what "research" you need to do and what facilities are needed to build ship types.

Note there is no upgrading of ships as you stated you did not want this, only made a start on a concept to see if this is what you were after

P.S. how the hell do I upload stuff to this forum

[evillejedi]

yeah that's what I want :-p

dunno about uploading.

I do like the 'increasing rank' idea too, however not sure about purchasing rank :-p

[Destraex]

Do you want me to continur with the diagram\tree??

Basically the Diagram shows that you need one of the various shipyards to produce your various ship types

In addition to this the shipyard you need will NOT allow you to build some ships until you have completed the appropriate research on weapons engines technology etc.

This is how I would envision it working.

In addition to this it would be nice to allow ships like Star Destroyers to produce low end fighters and scouts and carry them in their bays while ONLY shipyards can produce the larger ships and the more advanced fighters. Shipyards should be movealbe like the current HW2 ones. This will prevent the fortress approach being taken in multiplayer games.

As for Research I already stated I envision things like;

Ion Cannon Research
Shields Research
Turbolaser Research
Large Engine Drive Research



It would also be good if you could make the Star Destroyers weapons realistic - I think they had Turbolasers and Ion Canons all over them but with limited arcs. This meant attacking from the front was suicide while attacking from the rear is not so bad.

As for the rank advancement idea I am not sure how this would work ??

CAN YOU MAKE IT SO WE CAN NAME OUR INDIVIDUAL SHIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A MAJOR THING ESP FOR STAR WARS. imagine having the executor in your fleet!
:strat: :strat:

[strange_will]

I cant download the file... anyone having this problem?

[Destraex]

Yes I am also having this problem. But the new Beta may be out in a few days anyway?

[evillejedi]

yeah continue with the diagram, I will probably want to make a few tweaks after you are done though.

download link is down until next release.

weapon fire arcs are in EXCEPT for the fact that there is no proper collision meshes so the game doesn't use it (fires through hull).

all platforms, shipyards are moveable but slow (except for small defense platforms that are one shot)

ships will not be able to build other ships (IE ISD-> tie fighter), I made this decision because they don't in reality and it would require reorganizing the gui and would be micromanagment hell.

no individual names until someone else figures it out :-p (not with renamed meshes, but with full ATI support)

[Destraex]

no worries - sounds good. :)

How many units are in Beta2, having never played te first BETA im a bit in the dark here

[evillejedi]

the FAQ has a ship list for both rebel and imperial, only imperial are in game as of yet, a few ships are missing for them.


here are some concepts for the light cruiser, how do people feel about the designation 'Titan Light Cruiser' ? since it's from dark empire there is no official designation as of yet.

Imperator I, Allegiance, Titan

http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/HW/concept/titanconcept2.jpg

Imperator, Titan
http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/HW/concept/titanconcept.jpg

[Destraex]

Hi EvilJedi,

It would be easier for me to draw up the initial Research tree if you could give me for all ships stats on;

a) Weapons (eg 3 ion canons/concussion missiles etc)
b) any special abilities the ship has (ie cloak or board etc)

This will save me having to do the research you have probably already done or got better sources than I. It will allow me to extrapolate on what each ships research dependencies are before you are allowed to build them. IE the Y-Wing may need Photon and Ion research while a Tie Fighter wil need nothing but a fighter factory.

By the way will this fighter factory/frigate yard etc be modules on the Factory ship or stand alone Yards. Sounds more to me like they will be yards.

Send it to NorskaFresh@cramthelan.com if you are able

Also what is Dark Empire - some kind of new game?

[spacemoose]

well, it is an evil empire right? using resources to "influence" your way to the top doesn't seem too far fetched:)
---------
my imperators are still swinging their asses to their targets in a fight. you have to make sure they are moving while targeting to keep them from turning around.

[evillejedi]

weapon loadouts are in the xls file on the first page of this thread

tie fighters and system patrol craft will have no prereqs
ion cannons, concussion missiles, torps
see xls list

heavy rockets (vsd and IBC have heavy concussion missiles that are same pyload but faster than rockets)
victory I
Tyrant cruiser (IBC)
scimitar
missile boat
assault transport

as for abilities
cloak
tie phantom

grav well
grav well mine, immobilizer, dominator, Tyrant missile cruiser (IBC), sovereign SSD, Eclipse SSD

capture (space troopers)
space trooper, assault transport, asaault shuttle, omicron transport

ships requiring 'droid research'
tie droid
tie raptor
repair droid
dreadnaught (will improve stats)
(production rates will increase for all shipyards)

the mole miner will be the default resourcer (no prereqs) and the bulk frieghter will be the default resource controller. the modular taskforce cruiser will act as an upgraded resource controller (along with its other abilities).

the combat utility vehicle will be able to repair and reload fighters with the salvo ability.
the resourcer will have repair, salvage and resource so will require research for repair




ships with construction ability (builds)

factory ship
fighter
utility
light platform
light corvette
heavy corvette
frigate

fighter factory
fighter
light corvette
utility

frigate yard
heavy corvette
frigate
utility

destroyer yard
frigate
heavy platform
destroyer
utility

cruiser yard
destroyer
heavy platform
cruiser
utility

scaffolding
corellian battleship
vengence SSD
executor SSD
eclipse SSD
sovereign SSD

modular taskforce cruiser
utility
light platform

escort carrier
utility (probe only)

dark empire is a comic book series that came out mid 90's that details the final fall of the emperor 6 years after ROTJ.

the stupid turning around is due to the weapon ranges (it wants to use engagment ranges sometimes even if I turn it off)

[Destraex]

thanks Eviljedi

Will hopefully have something for you soon then

I did not even notice the Excel but only the ship list in the FAQ ;)

[Destraex]

Hi Eviljedi,

Just about to do the Research Tree. There will be a lot of gaps in it as I cannot find anywhere with a full list of all the specs for the ships you have chosen. I do not want to write up what it takes for instance to research a Y-Wing only to find I did not know they had ion cannons and therefore should have had ION research but I only listed lasers - thats just an example.

However before I did the Research Tree I wanted to make sure I had the Tech Tree pretty well squared away. Does this seem fairly accurate to you? I mean tell me if you want ships in other places, it was especially confusing doing the platforms and utilities as I am not very familiar with most of them.

This is because if I do the Research Tree without knowing what can build what it will not work so well.
As for the Modules well that will obviously be up to you to provide fighter facility space on the fighter "Factory" etc so thats cool

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~poolesean/mypic7.JPG

have a good one

regards,
Dest

[evillejedi]

few fixes to build list.

adding a category for medium platforms (research, training) which are buildable by frgiate yard and factory ship.

star hauler is only buildable by destroyer yard and cruiser yard.

factory ship is buildable by the scaffolding

cruiser yard and destroyer yard are the only yards that can build heavy platforms (refinery, C4I, Repair dock, GOlans, empress, XQ-1)

light cruiser is now Titan class cruiser
Imperial battle cruiser is Tyrant Missile Cruiser

otherwise it looks good.



err anyway, after looking at some schedule stuff for school next release may be delayed by a few days, sometime next week. mainly because I would be posting the last version with a few crash fixes and no new features because I haven't had time to work on the game, only model and texture some stuff.

what is planned:
implementation of rebalanced weapons
standardized HS cost.
few crash fixes
repricing of corvettes and frigates.
basic research (IE destroyers, frigates)
new models and textures for
TIE advanced
TIE bomber
TIE phantom
research station
mole miner

new models for
Imperial battle cruiser
Light cruiser

[NonameXK5]

That sure is a big list of ships, but more the better.

[wookieman]

where can I get the latest version of this mod?

all I can seem to download are older versions.

[DarthFelth]

u tried lookin in this topic ;)

[evillejedi]

link is down while I fix stuff (about 50% to next release, have two models and a bunch of ship file editing left to do).

I would ask that anyone having a publically available copy of any of the old versions (beta 0.15 included) on the web, to please remove it. If you have a copy locally, that's fine. I just don't want to have crashy old versions floating around and have to support them. I also do not want multiple places for distribution yet, again so that the mod that people download is the most up to date version.

thanks

also if anyone is interested in doing a website for this mod I would like to talk (PM me). my previous webhosting company was horrible, and my school space doesn't allow php. and honestly I don't have time now to support a webpage (if you want me to mod that is :-p )

at very least I would like a webmaster/host that supports php and php-nuke, it doesn't necessarily have to have a lot of storage space as I can host the mod files off my personal webspace, but it should be able to handle all screenshots and artwork. A website is not that important at this point, but it would sure be more organized than this thread.

[DarthFelth]

well contact me on AIM dude at some point

[evillejedi]

quick progress report.

http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/HW/warlords/ss00039.jpg

http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/HW/warlords/ss00040.jpg

brand new ISD model, shaved 1500 polys off the other one, this is a complete remodel and texture. still needs some work though :-p

once I finish this specific model I will redo the imperator I, dominator, victory I/II, allegiance and titan cruiser using this as a base. before only the imperator I and II would have been uv'd properly and I would have to done the others individually (GAH!)

unfortunately these hods are corrupted, I just wanted to see how it looked in game (no collison or dockpaths) so I need to keep working on getting maya to spit stuff out. the other reason this won't make the next release is that it quadruples the file size, unless I use maya which is being unforgiving at the moment. Or if for some reason a tool that properly imports dds files without killing the hod file were implemented ... obj inserter is so bitchy with textures and hoded does the texture and mip maps as tga's which crushes the video ram, besides the fact it doesn't like glow chunks or collsion meshes or dockpaths.

as for other things, fighter model progress is going well
and I am tweaking the HS and weapons a little.

THERE WILL BE A RELEASE SOMETIME THIS WEEK regardless if I hit the goals I set. :fencing:

[wookieman]

will the weapon effects be more visable in later releases?

the lasers are two small to keep track of.

just a suggestion but instead of using the laser corvette shot, why not use a smaller version of the trinity cannon for the laser effects?

[Destraex]

That looks pretty awesome EvilJedi

Will have to fix up that diagram for you and draw up the prospective research paths......

Cannot wait for the release

[YellowKnife]

I was playing the beta and i noticed that imperial people had republic star ships. Not that it matters much cause it was still fun, but is that just becuase its a beta or is that what the future Star Wars Universe is like.

:ninja:

[Magus]

They didn't have any rebel starships. The Nebulon-B was an imperial light patrol frigate, the rebellion just captured them en masse. Corellian corvs and gunships are for sale to whoever can afford them.

Can't think of any other possible rebellion ships in the game, though I probably missed some.

[Calavan]

damn, this looks great, you've got just about every Imp ship ive ever seen/heard of. Only one besides some utility ships that aren't there that i've noticed is the modified corvette. Great work :D

[evillejedi]

I'm really debating on the modified corvette, I've considered making it a cloaking, infiltration ship, it always seemed like LA just wanted a boxier more heavily armed version (regular corvettes are pretty darn weak especially compared to gunships)

[LynX]

The link is broken......

[Destraex]

link is broken because EvilJedi is bringing out the new version soon

[evillejedi]

hmmm I'm really close to getting actual hods out of maya, dare I ask people to wait for this? or should I make an interim release with the new weapons and other tweaks?

(fully textured, hardpointed, collision meshed and LODed ISDI, ISDII, VSDI, VSDII, allegiance and dominator if you are patient and maya is not fitful)

[Uranium - 235]

15 pages is a wee much to read through, but I have a question: How fast-paced will this mod be? I mean, I don't want to see like 15 ISDs and MonCals clashing and blowing each other up in seconds like HW2 is...


Also, are both sides going to have capture ships, or just the rebellion? Reason I ask is because commandeering enemy craft seems 'below' the Empire.


And... one thing that I'd really like:

In HW2 when you destroy a big ship, it starts to 'die'. Explosions ripple through the ship, it lists to the side... it's pretty well done. However, the ship keeps fighting until the bitter end, which is not very cool.

Anyway I'm thinking that for the larger ships, when destroyed, their guns and such stop working, but they don't completely blow up into debris for a long while after. Instead they'll have huge fires, explosions, basically give a more cinematic feeling to battles. Instead of something just popping and turning into debris, it'd drift around, completely disabled for a while.

[wookieman]

exactly! these ships are too big to just simply destroy but they stop fighting due to horrific crew casualties.

The ship doesn't have enough crew left to continue functioning.

But then again I suppose that there isn't enough crew left to stop a power core overload...

[evillejedi]

heh if you have 15 ISD's concentrate on one target at a time you will make it very quick, though if they are left to do their own targetting it will take a good amount of time.

each capital ship will have two death modes, break apart or core overoad, the latter being a lower chance. I would love to have ships get 'disabled' when they reach red on their health basically making them slow and unable to attack effectivly, but still commandable, however no one has figured out how to link ability modifiers to ship health.

As for the speed of battles, the new weapon balance should make modded ships vs modded ships last longer. Still overwhelming firepower will finish off stuff really quick, expect heavy cruisers to vaporize corvettes in one slavo if they connect.

also once all the ships have shields a ship will be able to regen about 75% of the damage it takes, this will make for much longer battles.

as for capture craft, the empire has a lot more ships devoted to boarding than the rebellion would have. Simply, they board a ship to 'inspect' the cargo and enforce order, if it is a military worthy ship (gunship, neb b) they would probably have it recommisioned, though other starships would probably be boarded simply to reduce the crew effectivness and then scuttled.

[wookieman]

yes but that would be stupid.

For 15 ISD's to crowd around it then this target must be ridiculusly big. certainly nothing in Homeworld 2.

I was thinking more like a few frigates or destroyers attacking an ISD because they need so many people to make it work.

[Uranium - 235]

Oh and just remmeber you have to give every empire ship a very small area that multiplies damage by 10,000,000 so a single bomber can destroy it ;)

[evillejedi]

the weapon ranges are longer than most HW2 weapons, TL's fire between 10-15 km so it is pretty easy to hge amounts of combined fire. and an SSD is pretty big :-p

[wookieman]

you got me there.

but star destroyer captains always want to get close to thier targets and their targets always want to stay away. :-)

[evillejedi]

excellent, I got ships to import from maya 5 with correct textures, just have to work out the kinks :-p

[Bri_Dog]

Just a question....Are you guys just doing Empire vs Rebellion? Or do you plan to put Vong and Chiss ships in?

[evillejedi]

there are currently 2 chiss specific ships I can think of so that is a definate no. the vong aren't documented well enough to create a whole fleet though they do have a number of known ship classes. however the biggest issue with vong ships is making them actually look good. non-symetrical curvy things tend to look like suck in 3d engines and OMG WTF animation of non-subobject meshes!? if anyone is up to that challenge I give you my condolences :-p however I would be interested in putting them in if someone else wants to do it :-p

[canseco]

hmmm I'm really close to getting actual hods out of maya, dare I ask people to wait for this? or should I make an interim release with the new weapons and other tweaks?

I want a release as soon as posible,please.

[evillejedi]

as soon as I figure out how to get maya to export goblins I will package the mod up. there will be a lot of stuff I will take out temporarily to allow for the earlier release. however you will get textured and properly collisioned meshed ISDs! (If I get really adventurous shields too!)

[rgreat]

Good luck! We are waiting! ;)

[Destraex]

I am also waiting as this will be the first time I get to play a version of this mod

[Falleen9]

i hope the mod is coming out soon i have almost lost hope in ever downloading this mod.

[evillejedi]

sheesh, I post updates about progress nearly everyday and you are ready to give up? the last available download was a two weeks ago...

however from here on out I should be able to incrementally update the mod, I'm packaging it up and going to test a few things. this should include the new ISDI, ISDII, dominator and escort carrier (dockpaths are broken on the ISD's so use the escort carrier) the next update will have the VSDI, VSDII, Allegiance and someother ship.

[evillejedi]

beta 0.17 (http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~muellerr/HW/warlords/HW2SW_BETA_V0.17.zip)

copy to data directory and use the included shortcut.
is now a gamerules mod, select the HW2SW option in the gametype pull down. the options should allow for quicker testing of units and stuff.

requires 1.1 patch to work
LAN play works, not sure about internet, someone go try it.

can anyone explain to me why the lighting on the ISD's is all weird at close zoom? it isn't dependant on smoothing groups, normals or triangulation (<-though it looks like it would be)

still a lot of messy stuff on the maya exported ships (dockpaths and lots of little things) however weapon collison and textures work and that is pretty dang good

[Falleen9]

i have renewed hope in you guys. The 24th is my birthday, so i can justfully say this is the best birthday persent evah!!

[Steppe]

i hope you guys have the original sounds of the laser turrets and stuff

[The Casualty]

Originally posted by Bri_Dog
Just a question....Are you guys just doing Empire vs Rebellion? Or do you plan to put Vong and Chiss ships in?
I am familiar with the Vong (read a few NJO books last year, they were good but I can't find them now), but who are the Chiss?

[evillejedi]

sounds are straight from Xwing alliance

the chiss are a race in the unknown regions that include grand admiral thrawn (probably the best EU character aside from mara jade :-p ) humanoids with blue skin with red eyes. the only thing of there's that I've actually seen an official picture of is the clawcraft, and there are descriptions of a few transports but nothing too much.

[evillejedi]

hmm apparently there are some issues with the gamerules... can everyone that has a problem please report on what's going on? I tried a clean install on my laptop and didn't have any problems.

also the asteroids are really borked

I will fix the asteroids and try to get it working with 1.0 later so there will be a 0.17b release (yay)

[BrettMan]

Post some screenshots. I want to see some new stuff.

[NonameXK5]

Titan crashes game some texture bugs like if u get close to your starting ship i mean like zooming in it turns all green.Thats all i know right now brb for more bugs.

[Cyan Leader]

(This reply is based on the star destroyer pics)

I thing there is something wrong with the SD. I fell that the 8 ion (not constant beam) guns r missing (4 on each side). The guns are visible in Rogue Squadron 2 and 3:

http://www.cyan.blogger.com.br/rebel_screen003.jpg

[NonameXK5]

ok there is alot of game play issues the worst is game crashing i dont know whats causein it but there are alot of crashs.Others are speed texture and hyperspace jump.Ok the SSD's hyperspace jumps are a big problem when i hyper space then to an area there like 2 miles below where there distanation was orginally.Textures can be seen on other star destroyers and the starting ship.

[Dragon45]

Interesting idea you have here, eeviljedi. i was making my own Star Wars in Space conversion for another game, but had to stop it a year ago due to RL time issues. Nice it see it getting done in some form or another.

Let me say this: It seems you are facing a lot of the issues i faced. Mainly, having to reuse graphics, minor/annoying bugs, and dealing with crazy gameplay/realism issues that get thrown in your face when you're dealing with an established universe.

Here's my input and experience with your mod:

I like the scale. StarWars-y.
The Cruiser Factory just looks like a scaled-up Destroyer factory.
The frigs (Carrack, for example) are having problems leaving their frigate yard and destroyer yard when complete. They "pass" straight through. In fact, there are collision issues with all the largest yards, such as the Super Capital Ship Scaffolding and the Cruiser yard.
Make the turbolasers green! It would be a simple task, and would really add to the environment.
I fail to see the purpose of having shields on fighters (TIE Defenders) and and not on capital ships and frigates. One thing i would suggest is destroyable innate subsystem shields for all the bigger cap ships. For anything below a capital ship-class vessel (or similar) i would suggest excluding shields altogether. This includes fighters, such as the Defender. Its what i did in my own mod, and it works well- just add extra armor to compensate. Reduces lag and stuff somewhat.
As the point brought up before, all the star destroyer should have "heavy Turbolaser batteries" along the "side" cabin things. Look in the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels; its shown in the schematics.
The Vengeance, i believe, has a hyperspace problem (i dont know if this is there by default, or not, but i do not believe it should be). It has 0 cost to hyperspace. Now, it might make sense, since in the SW universe, hypserspacing is essential free (only requires the ship's reactor) but you also have to keep in mind that microjumps are an impossibility, unless one wishes to blow out the hyperdrive. Unbalances the game by a significant margin as well. In my opinion, you should have hyperspacing cost quite a bit, as well as remove hypserspace capabilities from all of the fighters. This is for balance, not realism. It would be fairly annoying if fighters could hyperspace in for raids within a minute or two. It simply shouldnt happen. Again, hypserspacing should be limited to frigates and above, as well as cost much more (justification for that might include something like "Hyperspace capabilities, while inherently free, can be costly due to the damage incurred to the hyperspace drive during a microjump").
There are not enough destroyable innate subsystems. Capital ships should at least have shield gens (as stated above) and engines be destroyable, and the larger ships (super-class) should have turbolaser banks destroyable as well.
There are firing problems with almost all of the factories, and the mothership. It rarely fires properly- ive only seen it fire properly on one or two occasions out of the dozens of times ive told it to attack.
For some reason, the Cruiser Factory's resource drop off point does not appear on the subsystem list when selected, and it seems to be some sort of balck hole for resources or soemthing. Miners that go in there do not have their resources added to the total.
The Neb-Bs should have fighter bays. That's the whole point of them, IMHO. The Victories and ISDs should have the fighter launch bays as well.
Major bounding box problems are everywhere. Missles and lasers and stuff will collide with nothingness near a ship, and although damage will be inurred, it is always incurred in a weird, invisible area apart from the ships themselves (you know what i mean)?
On the cap ships, the turbolasers seem to fire only from or two points central to the ship. The firing points should be significantly dispersed, as well as "banks" implemented (as stated above).
Finally, the i believe the most serious issue to date are the mole miners. They completely ravage asteroid fields within a short period of time, and are difficult to kill. Totally imbalanced. I have never seen them carry a full payload back to the resource dropoff points. I personally think that they should
A) Cost a little less, harvest at a slower rate, travel slower, and be easier to kill, so you would always need a lot of them
B) Replace them with something else In short, just fix them. Fix this last point, and the mod could go a WHOLE lot further (IMHO, you should make this your number one priority).


I experienced no crashes, and i didnt mention all the graphical issues for a reason: I dont care about graphics. I care about gameplay, and it would be interesting to see a truely balanced star wars mod.

And another word of advice: maybe you should just abandon the super-class capital ships for now, and just focus on everything below. In fact, if i just had a solid Fighter+Frigate mod, i would be very, very thrilled.

[NonameXK5]

Good ideas but some are bad but the shield idea i think was scraped awhile ago on SSD and SD.Theres also fireing issues when a SD or SSD fires it weapons it looks like the fireing is comming from the space next to the ship and not the ship its selfs.But dont get me wrong its a good mod im just posting all these issues so u can fix them but keep up good work.I like how u put in the new game type very nice.
Btw take your time next release and try to recruit some more people for testing and textures ect issues.
But very good mod indeed.

[Doom_Giver]

Also, I noticed in the Star Wars movies, the lasers move alot slower than they do in the game..could you make the lasers thicker, longer (more of a trail) and slower as they appear in the movies....and great modeling, although also noticed that some of the smaller ridges and details on the Star Destroyer type ships (cruisers, destroyers, Suprdestroyers) are 2d...apart from that, good work on the beta .15 (i'm downloading .17)
Also, I know the lambda class shuttles have 2 ports right above inital laser cannons that house 2 ion cannons each, so I dun think ure giving the shuttle enough firepower by saying it only does 7 damage...
Final note:
About textures, could you put hw2 style glowing white windows on the bridge of the ships (star destroyers) and perhaps add a feature of tractor beam (an altered defence field?). Perhaps a death star as a superweapon? and for a rebel counter part, a planetary ion cannon barrage? Just a few ideas...
And please, make the rotation speed/overalll movement speed of the ties a bit slower...moving too fast makes em look unrealistic.
Also, perhaps including a few more weapon sounds for the sd's, as the same tie sound gets a bit repetitive...(try looking in some other starwars games for those).
I would love to help you guys model these ships (rebels?) and texture for you, but I dont know what programs to use/d-load...could someone tell me them, and where to download them? Since i am a newb at modding, could someone also email me a url for a texture/tutorial for using these tools? ( I tried to register at relic dev site, but they wont email me back my password, the bastards, and I tried contacting them..)
Email: Arograth@hotmail.com

[evillejedi]

first of all IT'S A BETA and very early one at that (0.17, not beta 1 or soemthing) , honestly I'm suprised anything is working given the state of the tools.

enough ranting, I am very grateful for the extended lists of bugs that have been provided so far

NonameXK5: what video card and video ram do you have? try turning down your res. it eliminated the issue for me on one of my machines with a 64meg gF4200. this should become less of a problem as more ships are imported through maya since it correctly compresses textures

shields have not been scrapped, they are just a pain to do and will take time.

the HS issue with large ships is annoying, since I will not be focussing on ships larger than 3 km for now it won't get fixed for a long time.

cyan_leader: turrets are coming, it is a low priority though.

Dragon45:
it's not the mole miners being fast, it's the asteroids being low resource. I will repost the file soon that fixes this.

HS is still being balanced. Currently the system works as follows: the ships mass determines the delay in entering or exiting HS but not its speed in HS. That is determined by its Hyperdrive rating. the RU cost for HS is based on the mass of the ship and is a flat rate regardless of distance. I am trying to limit HS jumps to longer than 15 km anything less and the ship will not jump. fighters that have HS will have HS, but will require the appropirate research (there is no research that currently prevent building, so this is not implemented yet)
some ships may not have been updated so they will not follow these rules.

docking paths are a pain currently and the shipyards are low priority for getting exported through maya.

making the TL firing bursts green actually isn't a simple task, I don't know how to correctly edit the muzzle flare animation (it shows up funny colored if at all when I change it)

shields will get done eventually, the ones on the fighters are just tests as larger ships require musch more work.

innate subsystems = hard, eventually

err does it really matter if the pea shooters on the shipyards and facotry ship even fire ?

the ISD's should have correctly positioned weapons

neb b's were orignally designed as small frigates to escort larger ships and relied on the larger ships fighter support. later versions were modified to carry a squad of fighters. my goal was to limit the number of ships that actually carry other ships because of the complexity of micromanaging it duriing battle. If the game was more flexible with combat stances then smaller ships would have working hangers.

I haven't worked on the large ships for a while, they are simply there to be completist for now. if they don't work exactly right then oh well.

Doom_Giver:
besides visibility issues lasers are pretty good IMHO

large ships have to be under 4000 polys if you want the game to run with any sort of framerate especially when there are upwards of 50 ships on screen. so small details on a lot of the ships are going to be ignored because of game performance

neither WEG nor WOTC says lambdas have ions, though the main guns should be stronger.

tractor beams are planned but take a good amount of work to do.

superweapons are impractical in terms of the game engine and really are pointless to the gameplay in this case.

there are 4 TL laser sounds and 3 ion cannon sounds taken from XWA. afaik there is no way to rotate sounds on a single weapon and ISD's have 60 TLs of the same size etc. so the weapon sounds are based on the power of the weapon.

ties rotation will get fixed


heh as for recruiting testers, you guys are my testers :-p get to work :-p

[SvK]

Do you have permission from Lucasarts to use XWA content?

[Belial]

Originally posted by SvK
Do you have permission from Lucasarts to use XWA content?

You have problems, seriously.

[Captain Pierce]

No, anyone who expected not to see that after the recent incidents and the posting of the new IP guidelines has problems.

[The5thElephant]

Woah...woah! EVERYONE STOP! Before this becomes another full blown arguement everyone just shut up.

SVK when you notice things like this I suggest you contact the mod lead through PM and not through their thread (because then everyone gets pissed off).

Evillejedi, be careful with what you respond, you are treading on dangerous ground here.

Let's resolve this without arguement please. I wanna see this mod continue. And of course get some nice textures on ships as opposed to HW2 textures covering them in ugly ways (my Allegiance destroyer looks like it is rusting away).

Great mod though!