How do you beat this? [Eldar Perspective Replay]

[daemonn789]

Basically, once they were able to roll out plasma, we got pushed back.

Even with some attempts at flanking, the game was lost. Let me know what you think we could have done better...

http://rapidshare.com/files/196545839/3_space_marine_gay_fest.rec.html


One thing I'm wondering - how do most Eldar players survive T2/T3 against SM players in 3v3?

Once they get the Plasma Devs out they can push quite easily. After that, here comes the Dreads... At this point, I've usually gotten a Falcon out... But even with good micro the Falcon's movements are erratic. Sometimes it stops and stutter moves. Or it will slowly move forward / backwards and then all of a sudden stop all together and spin the opposite direction.

Gonna post about it in the bug forum...

[archaon376]

Grenades will destroy HB/Plasma devs like there's no tomorrow. Use fleet of foot and do it quickly. Or use warp spiders to teleport behind them?

I'm not an Eldar player, so my advice is worth little, but that's what I see from experience (against me).

[daemonn789]

Well, rarely are the HB/Plasma teams unsupported. Usually they've got a commander (FORCE COMMANDER IS OMG PWN) or shotgun scouts... Both of which pwn Guardians.

Usually the Plasma are far back, so when the Space Marines advance, my units that come into LoS get hit...

[n00854180t]

@daemon, bend over, grab some lube.... Eldar are broken as hell right now. All of their units are WAY WAY too expensive for their mediocre or even downright shitty effectiveness at whatever role they are supposed to fulfill (looking at you, 'shees).

So, either prepare to be raped, or start playing 'nids or SM?

The forecast for the next patch doesn't seem promising either, as the Relic devs didn't mention anything about fixing Eldar. I wouldn't be surprised if they nerfed them even more.

[Galain]

Ranger squad can take a plasma squad down, but they need to be microed like hell. If even one of the squadmembers are hit by the plasmaball, the rangers are burned to dust before you can even say wtf(happened to me :P)

[daemonn789]

@daemon, bend over, grab some lube.... Eldar are broken as hell right now. All of their units are WAY WAY too expensive for their mediocre or even downright shitty effectiveness at whatever role they are supposed to fulfill (looking at you, 'shees).

So, either prepare to be raped, or start playing 'nids or SM?

The forecast for the next patch doesn't seem promising either, as the Relic devs didn't mention anything about fixing Eldar. I wouldn't be surprised if they nerfed them even more.

Sigh, I played SM... it's so easy. =(

They have so many VIABLE options as they progress through tiers. Oh well, hopefully with time, we can come up to par.

[Elixir]

I haven't figured out a counter to the plasma cannon yet but I hope to see an answer in this thread!

Thinking out side the box the only thing that might be usable is a huge mob of 3 or 4 WS squads. You'd loose some on the approach as the plasma cannon has wicked range but if you can teleport onto the plasma squad it may work. That amount of concentrated fire power even from WS should take them out and soak up enough of their guards fire to get the job done. Huge waste of resources mind you as you're bound to loose the lot.

[n00854180t]

@Elixir... except for the fact that you'd be spending enough to build an Avatar :p To counter ONE squad that costs 400 req only (way too cheap IMO).

[daemonn789]

@ n00854180t

Oh yes... we must not speak of that other thread...


fanbois!

[known]

Best way to beat plasma cannons as eldar? Dont play 3v3... No seriously, once a sm player has entrenched a point with plasma cannons the game is quite literally over. Best way to prevent it is go double platforms right off the bat utilizing ur guardian squad/hero to cap. Ofcourse in the end the sm player will get plasmas. The only thing you are hoping for is that one of your team mates is sm. Fire prisms and the avatar (or any vehicle for that matter) is simply slaughtered before they even see a plasma squad. Warp spiders do shit damage and cannot simply warp in and attack the plasma squad(s) and hope to destroy it before they are all killed.

[blurrymadness]

why not micro? The name of the eldar? Seriously.

Warpspiders micro into melee, any other plas devs don't shoot as well, less they shred their own just as expensive troop (far more expensive if you use zeal-spiders).

While they're in combat use your sweet guardians. It depends on their set up. If they have overlapping HB/devs then you need to flank somehow. If not, you can get shees there easy. Even nading a that dev squad RIGHT after dodging their shot is enough to do it.

These are a 1v1 perspective.

[Rhedd]

These are a 1v1 perspective.Which is exactly what nobody was discussing.

My suggestion, as an Eldar player? Post-patch Rangers are really overlooked by many.

I'm not going to tell you that makes it easy to defeat Marines, because it doesn't. Nothing does. But one-shot suppression might make it possible.

[SteinerNein]

Rangers / Vehicles (ironically) or D-Cannon.

[ydejin]

How about creating a web gateway behind the SM position, so his plasma cannon and heavy bolters are facing in the wrong direction. Bring in Banshees through the gateway to tie his units up so he can't turn them around and bring them to bear, and Guardians to shoot him up while he's tied up in melee. For an added bonus, you can grenade him right before your Banshees engage.

You could combine this with an attack of forces from the front. Then he'll be faced with an attack on both sides. This probably works best in Team play with voice communication so everyone knows what they're doing.

You can either use Rangers or the Farseer's Farsight to get LOS to an area behind the SM to build the gateway.

[SteinerNein]

You know what, ydejin... I keep forgetting about that ability . Though to be honest, with the Farseer I tend to save up for a Seer Council since it's relatively easy to accumulate 700~

[Misiok]

If youre playing with a team worthy of being called 'teammates' and youre a warp spider exarch its kinda easy. If youre with at least one marine get him to make an ASM squad, get yourself either guards or one banshee and mass teleport behind them plasmas. (Spiders entangle is helpful to at least make him lose one plasma)

I actually did that today with a teammate being a Marine and his (enemy marine) plasmas got eaten nicely on the city map.

[Ozymandias]

Rangers stealth banshees with holofield.

[Xile]

To stay competitive with any SM, I absolutely have to bring out no less than 2 Ranger Squads. Infiltrate them in T2 to weed out heavily entrenched Squads. They also provide an amazing range of sight which can give you ample time to react to approaching Dreadnaughts. You'll need Rangers to spot for your Brightlance.

However, once T3 rolls around, I'm at a loss for ideas. Unless you have the Farseer, you have little (which really means Zero) chance for success, as she brings the Seer Council with her. Eldar has no resonable melee units except for the Seer Council (and that's only if you have the Farseer, the Warlock and WSEx don't have access). Banshees are pushing it in T1, thus bringing them to a T3 fight is a joke. The Avatar WOULD be great, except that he's 1000 req and 250 Power and a single unit. It's incredibly difficult to hold out for the Avatar without purchasing anything before hand.

I recommend two things:

1. A Seer Council no matter what leader you chose.
2. Plasma SM Squad pushed to T2 OR Scout Snipers Removed.

[ydejin]

1. A Seer Council no matter what leader you chose.
2. Plasma SM Squad pushed to T2 OR Scout Snipers Removed.
The SM Devastator Plasma Cannon is T2. Do you mean T3?

[Gen_Khan]

Ranger Spam!

3-4 Cloaked Rangers (costy I know) BAM!... no cannons

[SteinerNein]

3-4 Cloaked rangers could probably take out whole squads at time versus space marines ;(

I wonder... Doom + Guide + 3 or 4 Cloaked rangers... equals whole tac squad instagibs ? Maybe?

[archaon376]

Rangers are easily countered by ASM. They wipe out the entire squad in seconds. But if your opponent isn't paying attention to the healthbars of his units, rangers can wipe out squads before the opponent even notices.

[Dooks Dizzo]

How have Wraithlords worke dout for people?

It might have been a fluke but I killed 3 Plasma Dev squads with one WL. What it came down to was that I was getting Sync kills all the time, granting invulnerability while I mashed up the guys. I would kill one in the squad, and run over to the next squad to break them up, then run back to the first squad and keep it going.

And when I say 'killed' I don't mean killed all three guys in every squad but I broke them up and forced them to flee with one or two guys remaining.

Then I moved in the rest of my forces and crushed them when they tried to come back at full strength.

[Misiok]

One thing I noticed - Sync kills dont give you invulnerability. While youre perfoming a Sync Kill (or an Extreme kill as they call it) youre still getting hit and losing hp. You might have 0 hp when sync killing, but after that you just die.

[Aokin]

yeah apparently someone looked into the sync-kill damage noting that approximately 20% damage is still taken during the animation phase.

[Andaius]

I've been watching tons and tons of replays on gamereplays and I've seen one where a Warp spider exarch teleported in ahead of an attack to make the cross coverage PC shoot at and disrupt the HB squad he was in CC with. He teleported away as the shot was in the air to CC the PC while the HB was hit by the plasma ball. He sent in his forces as the ball was in flight to both the teams where disrupted at the same time. Was pretty cool to watch.

Anyway I say you can possible take this into account make him disrupt and damage his own troops with warp spiders. :P

[Elixir]

That is some terrific micro being done their Andaius and a brilliant piece of tactics. I'd love to see that replay. Do you have a link by chance?

[Andaius]

Sorry I basicly go to gamereplays and DL them tens at a time and don't really keep track of them sorry. I remember it specificly because it was the best piece of micro i seen in that batch I got. Also it was from a batch I got last weekend.