Dealing with the Carnifex

[Aquila]

Well, every time you're playing Tyranids it's inevitable they'll get the Carnifex with venom cannon at some point. I'm having a little trouble dealing with them. At 900 HP I just don't have enough weapons that do enough damage to take them down.

So far I've tried:
Tacs with missile launchers
Dreadnought
Force Commander with Powerfist
Assault Squad with meltabombs
Plasma Cannon Devastators

Same situation with all of them. They don't do enough damage quickly. The carnifex simply runs away and auto heals at the base. The only effective tactic I've been able to find is to ignore it completely and just run circles around them for map control.

I know its a pricey unit but with the venom cannon it's really only around 600/120... but Space Marines are costly too, and I think we all know it will take down far more than it's cost. What have you guys been using to deal with these monsters?

[JasonMcAuley]

I've found the best defense for Carni is simply to delay them coming. Push them to the point where they can't afford to tech, and pay the huge power costs it takes to eventually get to there.

It's easier said then done, given any competent Nid player will dominate map control. If a Carni does make an appearance, I've found the best way to deal with them is getting them tied up in melee (with something like a dread, ASM, neither of which will last very long), and then hitting it up with plasma devs and/or a rocket tac squad (I often leave one squad without weapon upgrades in the event carns appear). Also, I generally play with the techmarine, so the ability that causes the effected target to take more damage from all sources really helps (I've seen this ability result in the quick demise of an avatar a time or two).

As I said, this is still easier said then done. A good nid player will generally beat an equal (and in a lot of cases better) skilled SM player. Their map control is just unmatched and its too hard to compete with resources.

[EPIK WIN]

Do fexes have any sort of counter though? I swear the minute one comes out its over... The only thing I've had put a dent in them is plasma devs but even then it takes a while and the carnifex usually wises up and walks up and smacks them...

[TheJon]

Yea tyranids are a pain in the ass. I love playing nids when i have 4 carni's and the other player is trying to figure out what he can dish out to stop me. But when the tables are turned....it's pretty lame. lol.

[c4dillon]

Do fexes have any sort of counter though? I swear the minute one comes out its over... The only thing I've had put a dent in them is plasma devs but even then it takes a while and the carnifex usually wises up and walks up and smacks them...

Plasma devs are very nasty, and making the carifex walk over to them isn't usually a good thing as a nid commander since they are vulnerable when they are overextended.

For instance, your plasma can outrange their VC's with sight of them and force them to either move up or fall back - either of which will happen very slowly, and if they choose to fall back, they have to turn around, and that gun is now out of the fight, as well as the carnifex itself.

Also, damage done to it is not easily healed without a partner zoanthrope. If you can get your ASM's in on that to make it retreat you've got a big beast that is very expensive and forcing the nid commander to make a decision on whether to pull him back or risk losing 550 req + 125 power before the other costs of the fex's upgrades

Predators are nice, but unfortunately probably too risky against most nid armies. Being able to move them around though while having a rotational turret is definitely an advantage that needs to be used to the fullest.

[JanusRN]

I've tried ASM melta bombs and I swear it doesn't allow you to use melta bombs against a fex.

I was successful last night against a fex using the FC to tank it. I had the power fist, armor of alacrity and the iron halo. One of my team mates clued me into the iron halo, it effectively turns your energy into additional hps. The energy regen at level 10 is about 2.36 compared to .624 regen for hps according to Corsix's db. The energy regen and your standard hps will allow you take a beating for a fair while. Use the sprint from the armor of alacrity to close the distance, the power fist for dps and the iron halo to help you tank it, but you won't solo this with the force commander. You'll need to back him up.

Once the FC has the fex locked up, you can move your missile tacs and plasma dev squads into position to start pounding away at it.

You also want to try and bait him into charging your hero by either feinting to run away(not actual retreat). This will keep him charging into your range units when the he figures out your trap. It's going to take alot to beat it down and it's best to coordinate with your team mates to at the very least tag team it down to minimize losses.

I've tried rushing 3-4 missile tac squads and perhaps a plasma dev squad to take it down, but a VC equipped fex will obliterate any troops within range. If you aren't using a high hp unit to tank it, you may still kill it, but the amount of troops you typically lose will be pretty devastating.

Otherwise, if you are using an apoth, a DAoT equipped dread will have 1100 or 1200 hps. It might be able to take the pounding if you have enough support. If you have the techmarine, I'd look into a venerable dread since it has the charge ability and 1200 hps base.

If the fex has a swarm around it, I've charged in with my FC right into the fex then orbital bombarded on top of the FC. If you have the iron halo and leveled up enough, the FC can take the OB without it getting through the shield.

[JanusRN]

Someone did a test and a DAoT Dread will beat a Fex. Information in the following link.

http://community.dawnofwar2.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12248

[alisbin]

janus brings up a good point, can melta bombs target any 'nid unit? i realize the carni is a daemon/monster, but it fills the roll of a walker so shouldn't melta's target it?

[Aquila]

Meltabombs can target the Carnifex. They used to be fairly effective in the beta, however they are now all but useless.

[sejjie]

Use a dread or two I suppose. But tyranids will soon have a nerf so I wouldnt worry.

[AlienHack]

terminators will take care of the fex.. :-)

[MaddoxX]

Where/How do you obtain missile tacs, I didn't see any in the game?

[Delta_Assault]

It's an upgrade. Right under the plasma gun.

[MaddoxX]

For which squad?

[Nabeshin HT]

Tac marines

[MaddoxX]

Huuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't remember see that, must check it out.

[Goobers]

Bottom upgrade, costs 80/40. Sucks against infantry, very powerful against Vehicles, Monsters and buildings.

A Pair of Tac Marines with Missile Launchers will handily defeat a VC Carnifex, a Thornback one your going to want two or three missile Tacs with something to support them, apothecary, assault marines with melta bombs or a dread, all are good.

[MaddoxX]

This means that all Anti Veh weapons is good against monsters right?

Do you think that the Venerable Dreadnought worth its price?

[Buguba]

Plasma devs are very nasty, and making the carifex walk over to them isn't usually a good thing as a nid commander since they are vulnerable when they are overextended.

For instance, your plasma can outrange their VC's with sight of them and force them to either move up or fall back - either of which will happen very slowly, and if they choose to fall back, they have to turn around, and that gun is now out of the fight, as well as the carnifex itself.

Also, damage done to it is not easily healed without a partner zoanthrope. If you can get your ASM's in on that to make it retreat you've got a big beast that is very expensive and forcing the nid commander to make a decision on whether to pull him back or risk losing 550 req + 125 power before the other costs of the fex's upgrades

Predators are nice, but unfortunately probably too risky against most nid armies. Being able to move them around though while having a rotational turret is definitely an advantage that needs to be used to the fullest.

That's a hell of a lot easier said than done.

Plasma devs do big damage to Fexs, but they have to focus all their shots on the fex. Assuming that the fex doesn't just march up to your devs and blast the hell out of them, them the Nid player only needs to send a single gaunt squad to beat them. Getting multiple plasma devs will ensure that the fex will die, but they still have to focus all their shots on the fex, and the Nid player can still just run his gaunts up to your devs.

A Pred has good range, but it barely outranges the Fex w/ VC. In a straight up fight between the two, the Fex wins hands down. It's only a matter of the Fex moving forward.

Jumping your ASM to get their Zoanthrope is asking for suicide. The Zoanthrope only needs to use its warp shield ability to negate the ASMs damage for a few seconds, and then the entire nid army converges on the ASM. You can't retreat through the Nid army, you can't beat them by the ASM themselves, and you'll do minimal to the Zoanthrope because of the shield ability. Basically, you've just wasted 650 req and 50 power (assuming you got a leader).

Also, melta bombs don't target fexes.

[MaddoxX]

This mean that all Anti Vehicle weapons are useless against nids right.

[Kinmaul]

No, missle tacs do respectable damage to fexs. If he charges your squad you are going to have to micro them as they obviously cannot go toe-to-toe and win.

[philgreg]

Any idea how many missiles it would take? Do HBs do ANYTHING to Carnis? Or is it like expecting a HB to damage a dread?

[JHD536]

The Carnifex has vehicle equivalent armor, meaning you have to use anti-vehicle weapons to reliably damage it.

From what I've seen, I can't use Melta bombs on it, and the Techmarine EMP doesn't work, so I'm guessing it's straight AT weaponry, plasma cannon/Missile/Predators.

[philgreg]

Is plasma even cost effective? Surely it'll get destroyed by VC, and if the carnifex is walking toward you, will it even hit it? Preds are surely a no-go for VC reasons... seems to get missile tacs to me, but I can't see one squad doing the job sadly, and two is pricey...

Thoughts anyone?

[JHD536]

If you can keep the Carnifex at range, plasma cannon can do a decent job, especially if you get a sneak shot or two in, but Tacs are generally the best bet.

Plasma is also the cheapest of the 3 semi-viable choices:
400/0 for Plasma
550/60 for Tacs + missile
450/125 for Predator

I'm probably off a bit, but you get the general idea.

[philgreg]

Yeah very true. Plus plasmacannon will always be present anyway. A combo of the two should do the trick, while hopefully FC and HBs can keep the horde off them long enough :)

[zer0ex]

it'll take roughly 4-6 missiles to kill a full health carni. 2 tac squads should be plenty. plasmas are kinda hit and miss *literally*, plus with the tac squads, they can hold their own against the nid army.

[Saias]

In the vast majority of circumstances you should always have 2 tactical squads with missile launchers in mid-late tier2 as plasma rifles aren't necessary and vehicles pose an immediate threat when they arrive which can be dealt with easily with ML.

[philgreg]

What trade off is there from utilising the missile launcher? Naturally a bolter is lost, how does the ML DPS compare to the bolter? Does the ML-equipped marine lose any potency in melee, or can they still be relied to hold their own vs Gaunts if tied up?

[Saias]

Missile Launchers can insta-gib slugga boys at ranged, however you do notice them missing more gain infantry.

[philgreg]

Any AoE disruption on the ML that I've missed?

[Rewfus82]

I may be wrong in assuming this, but do nids take more damage from fire than the other races?

At any rate, had a good 1v1 going (me: SM, op: Nids) I knew I had the upper hand and I knew the Carni was coming, and I remember the first time I encountered the Carni and it was the only time i truly felt the balance issues were glaring right at me.

Needless to say, I had a plan of attack set in motion. By the time I had encountered the carni in this game, I had two tact squads with flamers and terminator suit with flamer, also a squad of devastators and the (crap mind blank) plasma gun squad.

At first he tried to drive straight towards my plasma, but I had the devastators set up behind, so he quickly retreated and tried to flank me from the side. I was expecting this, so I set up my dev and plasma in the correct positions and immediately brought my two tacs and FC (in terminator) down. He was caught a little off guard and I got him in a position where he had to waste a few steps to get to me. Funny thing is I dested his carni in about 10-12 seconds. I don't know if he wasn't paying attention or what, but he didn't even try to pull the carni back. Also, he was only supporting it with rippers and herms


Carni lasted... literally... 10 seconds. He must not have been watching because he didn't even try to pull the carni out.

[Shuma]

Carnifexes have Vehicle-like Armor AV weapons will hurt them, and ranged fexes(Venom, Barbed) are not good enough in melee, melee them with a commander or something else and blast it to hell with Av weapons.

With Marines, you just have to melee it with a Force Commander and then kill it with Plasma Devs or Missile Tacts.