[SP] Purely melee build - viable?

[Skif]

For my next campaign run i intend to try a purely melee build of melee-FC, melee-Tarkus (later to be replaced by again melee Thule), melee-Thaddeus, and Cyrus (him not melee ofc, energy + health). Captain difficulty. This is the only one build i havent tried yet.
So, i am putting myself in the world of pain or is it ok? Any experience on your part? My main concern is a late-game defense missions - my melee units die there very, very fast all the time, because all of the horde shooting at them, not only the foremost squads.

[Saias]

so it's a pure melee build, with a ranged unit? the only thing i can see you struggling with is boss fights.

[Skif]

Hm, using Cyrus stealth-revival, boss fights must not pose too big of a threat. But what about defense ones? Anyone tried rushing headlong into enemy wave and having some success?

[Akranadas]

It's viable; but more reliant on good war gear drops.

[Pocktio]

On higher difficulties I can't see it working. Even with 4 melee units all it would take is one platform to not be cc'd, or missed or moving in from the FoW and you're squads are cut to ribbons before you can say 'PANCAKES WITH LEMON'.

[Saias]

well i used thadues and and the FC as a melee unit on primarch defense missions and they caused the vast majority of the damage, i just let my ranged units baby sit the gens while the other 2 went to town on the base rushers.
I still don't really see the point of this though unless you stick to a pure melee force, otherwise it's just your base build that many people use.

[Skif]

Ok, thanks everyone... I'll try.
As for the

On higher difficulties I can't see it working. Even with 4 melee units all it would take is one platform to not be cc'd, or missed or moving in from the FoW and you're squads are cut to ribbons before you can say 'PANCAKES WITH LEMON'.
Retreat button saves my ass most of the time in such cituations.

[KotCR]

Bear in mind, sometimes you have nowhere safe to retreat too, particularly in defensive missions.

[Pocktio]

You just need FPS style reflexes to play on Primarch w/melee build. A split second is all it takes for that platform to shred your squads, a second is longer than it takes for you to see the platform. You registering it and your brain cycling the message to your hand to move the mouse and hit the retreat button/ or the keyboard key, all this takes longer than a split second :P

[Skif]

Bear in mind, sometimes you have nowhere safe to retreat too, particularly in defensive missions.

This is why I was worried about the defense missions in the first place... Well, after all, they are not mandatory.


You just need FPS style reflexes to play on Primarch w/melee build. A split second is all it takes for that platform to shred your squads, a second is longer than it takes for you to see the platform. You registering it and your brain cycling the message to your hand to move the mouse and hit the retreat button/ or the keyboard key, all this takes longer than a split second

That is why I am trying this on Captain ;) Primarch I did with purely ranged build. FC with AC and instakill and battlecry + Thule imbarrage + Avitus with Plasma Cannon = lots of dead bodies fast and clean.

[SubZero]

Me and my friend are doing this on Primarch. We suffer the odd loss as can be expected, however against bosses so far, we are killing them far quicker than we ever did as ranged.

We use sentry guns too.

Tarkus bp/chainsword, Thaddeus bp/chainsword, Cyrus bolter, Commander Paxe/bp.

[BFeeder]

It's all about knowing when to deploy certain abilities, such as rally, rosarius, stimulant kits etc. as well as cunning use of Cyrus' special shot abilities to clear out any potential problems (I find stealthing up to large groups of enemies and deploying explosive shot at near point blank to work best for this).

[Skif]

Me and my friend are doing this on Primarch. We suffer the odd loss as can be expected, however against bosses so far, we are killing them far quicker than we ever did as ranged.

We use sentry guns too.

Tarkus bp/chainsword, Thaddeus bp/chainsword, Cyrus bolter, Commander Paxe/bp.

Cyrus using bolter? Not sniper rifle? How is this viable?

[SubZero]

Supression, higher DPS, not reliant on supplies...

On Primarch you are forced to think of abilities and less about raw hardcore damage dealing. For instance, that well-timed ASM jump with a perfectly placed Blind Grenade followed by a Frag Grenade may be the difference between a skirmish swinging one way or another.

Sniping a single unit with HPS is not beneficial with the number of high damage dealing units on the field on Primarch difficulty. Supression is far more useful crowd control coupled with Blind and Frag grenades which let you focus on annihilating one unit at a time.

[Skif]

Hmm, HPS was a godsend against synapse creatures, plats, tankbustas, and bosses.
I do not think I am ready to drop it... Yet, at least. Without Avitus for supression I might soon reconsider, we'll see...

[KotCR]

What GroundZero said; In the harder difficulties it seems to all be about crowd control more than anything; Meaning the Bolter, Shotgun and Flamer are all vastly superior to the Sniper Rifle in this regard.

Once you get the use-abilities from Infiltrate perk, getting close and safely shouldn't be a problem, and most of the things you'd kill with a high-powered shot you can kill with the shotgun's ability instead - aswell as hurt everything else in the area with it. The Shotgun can also harm vehicles, making it useful against all bosses, instead of just the organic ones.

With the aforementioned ability from Infiltrate perk, you can also safely use the Flamer for a similiar purpose to the Shotgun. It can't harm vehicles, and it's special attack doesn't do very much to buildings, but against infantry targets, it'll still annihilate clumps off them, and if you let it run full-course I believe it'll do more damage to them than the Shotgun ability would.

I can also see the benefits of having more suppression via the Bolter too, though.

[SubZero]

One point of note also, be sure to use Sentry guns to defend what you believe to be your main point of retreat/reinforcement. There is nothing worse than reaching the final boss to find that he and his posse are more than happy to follow your retreating units to your reinforcement point and annihilate you before you get your teleport member.

Avitus was fairly uninspiring on Primarch difficulty, even with the Assault Cannon which only seems to fire 3 shots then spend 5mins reloading.

Last night I witnessed Tarkus and Thaddeus virtually single handedly defeat several squads of Banshees (about mission 10-12). Then in the following level, the health of the Tyranid Warrior Boss was freefalling with the Commander, Tarkus and Thadd using their melee coupled with Blind Grenades. Very impressive damage.

[SubZero]

Hmm, HPS was a godsend against synapse creatures, plats, tankbustas, and bosses.

Just to address this point, Synapse creatures (Warriors predominantly) when Blinded go down very fast. When they fall, the minions take the damage hit and your assault troops can follow through with brutal efficiency and clear the tables.

Units seem more vulnerable to melee and more resistant to ranged damage in my experience with playing both ranged and melee on Primarch difficulty level.

[Skif]

Tried this build last night. Well, pretty effective so far. Needs a lot of micro and ability usage, which is a plus. Totally sucks in defense, just as i presumed, which is bad. Also, i have a terrible shortage of CC weapons already, which is expected ;)
Concerning Cyrus, i suppose i'll try this shotgun thingie, all you say sounds pretty cool. Besides, i am getting bored with sniper rifle after third campaign walkthrough ;)

[SubZero]

You may wish to switch to Thule when you get the chance instead of Cyrus. Go up the melee tree and then the ranged with Assault Cannon, then make sure you go Venerable too.

He is needed when you don't have a Devastator squad for his insane AOE Death effects with explosive barrage abilities... and his high Armour Value (best i've managed so far is 111).

[konfeta]

Really, I don't think you survive in Primarch by being togher, you survive there by killing them before they kill you.

Does anyone even know what armor does *exactly*?

[SubZero]

From my own experiences I would say that it reduces the effects of damage inflicted on the unit. Ranged damage is effected more than melee damage as you will see on Primarch difficulty where you can shoot a boss creature with several 1000damage rated units and see it's health barely budge. Yet if you CC it with damage ratings of around 100-300 it's health will free-fall.

[Ludovsky]

I guess it also depends on what you use too.

That 1000 damages or so ranged might be anti-infantry damages from heavy bolter/assault cannon types, whereas that 100-300 damages from melee might have been power weapons which pretty much /ignore/ most armors.

[Shujaa]

I played pure melee on the normal difficulty (Sergeant?), and while it's slower to kill hordes, it's a LOT quicker to kill vehicles and bosses than using ranged guys. Yes even if you had Thule with Hellfire rounds. (I also played a pure ranged game just for fun, it works out quite well except the FC and Thaddeus become a bit useless)

FC: Iron Halo, Power Fist
Tarkus: Power Sword, Veterans
Thaddeus: Terminator Armour, high ranged damage resistance items
Thule: All melee and all stamina

I find FC lasts much longer with an Iron Halo and high Energy Regeneration than he does with Terminator Armour on. Thaddeus can run away easily if needed, and is seriously tough. Thule can shutdown and repair whenever needed. Tarkus is the weakest link, and I wish I could put Terminator armour on him but then he defaults to ranged attacks :(

Hordes are quicker to get through as you gain levels and get more special melee attacks coming off FC and Thaddeus. Also Thule's ground smash upgrade is lethal, and it even stuns bosses.