Tyranids and Flamers

[Verrin]

So, I've come to the conclusion that I have no idea how to counter flame-type weapons in the early game. All the tier 1 units seem extremely fragile to any flame type weapon. I generally use the Alpha Lictor, and the only way I can find of succeeding against them is to out-micro my enemy. Which is a lot easier said then done; in other words, I don't know any hard counters for flamers. I sometimes fair okay against Space Marines, since their squads are smaller and a bit easier to maneuver around. However, it's a bit more difficult with Ork, since they get multiple flamers in a squad. I can try to selectively slow them down with flesh hooks or utilizing the Barbed strangler, but generally rippers and guants die in seconds from flames making it difficult to effectively surround them. I've also tried the ranged route with termagants, thinking that distance is key. But that hasn't worked out too well either. So, input, comments, and suggestions are all welcome. :)

[Warskull]

Short answer is you don't. Tyranids are a very T2 race. You can use hormaguants to try and get into melee with the flamer shutting it off, but it is still a dangerous approach. In T2 give them a melee synapse and they just jump the flamer, no problem.

In T1, tacs are going to be hard to beat even in melee without a synapse of some sort. With a synapse things are probably still going to be rough.

If you have a Tyrant or Lictor, I would send him into melee with the offending unit, it is probably your best shot.

Truth be told, you should have minimal issues with losing a majority of the map in T1. Even without flamers an ork will push your around in T1. But come T2 you can boom with warriors and if they aren't careful, full wipe them. Just make sure you pay power proper respect and get to T2 within your first 75 power.

[Engine]

Agreed on the T2 - use your commander to harass his army without losing him, while using your gaunts to harass his points and get as much map control as possible. You can't put up a serious fight until T2. All your gaunts can hope to do is chase a lone unit of scouts off a point.

[Steel*Faith]

I don't agree, Tyranids are very much a T1 race. I don't understand how you could say that Tacticals are going to be a problem in melee, even with synapse!? Tyranids have an extremely deadly T1 lineup, massed synapse gaunts, anti-suppression rippers, spore mines (clear buildings), and the infamous warrior spam can easily beat anything in tier 1. Then if you effectively use any of the Nid commanders, you can pretty much insure a quick victory.

Tyranids are the easiest race to play in any tier just about. They have deadly tools no matter what tier they're in. Warriors alone can counter nearly any unit in the game.

Ork flamers are pathetic, they are slow to fire, and fast gaunts should have no problem tying them up and preventing them from getting off a burst of flame. If you're primarily using a Lictor Alpha, then what's stopping you from sneaking up from behind and causing havor to the very fragile boyz? Also you need to use spore mines, if you're not using spore mines vs orks, you're asking to get smacked.

Orks need to bunch up to maximize WAAAGH! effects, if you use spore mines, you can take out several squads with one squad of spore mines (if used correctly). So by using Spore mines, you will make the Ork player afraid to bunch up his units, and use WAAAGH!, if he isn't afraid, he's an idiot and have fun wiping out his boyz.

Edit: Oh, not to mention the infamous barbed. That weapon is rdiculously effective against orks. If you have a barbed strangler firing off at the massed boyz, how are they going to stop you in tier 1? Same even goes for Marines, if you suppress them, they're going to be sitting ducks for you to come and eat them alive.

[ZeroA]

The only race I run away from at the start of the game are the orcs. I just go around capping things until I get warriors, then I go hunt me some greens

[Warskull]

You only realistically can field 3-4 basic squads and 1 warrior squad in T1. The warrior squad is late T1 on top of this. If you spam warriors, spore mines, and gaunts all in T1 of course you can beat flamers. You are going to have issues beating truks, razorbacks, dreadnoughts, and wraith lords on the other hand because your opponent is going to be way ahead of you tech wise. You cannot tech while fielding all the units described.

A Tyranid player should always be pushing T2 fast. Gaunts get 25% damage and 25% more health, plus you can grab an extra 30% from VC or AG, both of which are extremely powerful upgrades. Plus T2 gives access to some very powerful upgrades on your heroes such as VC/Improved Synapse on HT and Synapse Aura on the Ravener.

T1 Gaunt + Synapse = +25% damage, -20% damage taken
T2 Gaunt + Correct Synapse = +25% Health, +80% damage, -20% damage taken and either jump or KD shot

If you run HT you can get an additional 50% health on your gaunts and warriors in T2, Ravener gets +30% damage to everything (including himself.)

The gap between the same units in T1 and T2 is absolutely huge.

[WhiteShadow11]

Im surprised no one has said anything about what is probably one of the best ways to counter flamers (at least with SM). Hormagaunts are not going to get u a win..infact they almost guarantee you will lose against a SM tactical squad with flamers. As far as orks go im not sure... But what i've found is that termagaunts are INCREDIBLY useful. If u get 2 squads of Terms with a Venom cannon warrior, no flamers or any SM unit besides jumpers are going to touch you. The synapse on the venom cannon gives each term a 30% knockdown. SO if u have 2 squads of terms...thats 16 units all with a 30% chance to knock a flamer on his ass. Ur welcome :)

[Engine]

The problem is with flamers in T1.

My Solution: Smile to myself and cap the entire map instead of wasting my Hormas.

[WhiteShadow11]

There isnt exactly a good counter to flamers in tier 1 with Nid's...your forced to rush to tier 2. Which isn't very hard.

[ViS]

What the hell are you guys smoking? Just use Warriors.

gg no re

=/

[Goobers]

Or just tie them up in melee with your hormigaunts instead of sitting there letting them get free hits.

[ViS]

Well, I can understand Hormies getting beaten to a pulp as they lose about half hp on the way in and the rest of it after a few seconds of melee with Tacs (yikes) but Warriors possess heavy infantry armour and a small squad size. You have no excuses.

[Demonhorde]

Problem with warriors is the energy cost that make you slow down your tech. And your almost always up against 1-2 flamer units and a single warriro squad can't manage that at all. I agree it's really hard to play against people who know how to use flamers well.

[ViS]

Are you serious? Warriors slow down your tech?

Tyranids are meant to be teching TO Warriors.

-_-;

[Buguba]

Problem with warriors is the energy cost that make you slow down your tech. And your almost always up against 1-2 flamer units and a single warriro squad can't manage that at all. I agree it's really hard to play against people who know how to use flamers well.

SM flamers are 40 req + 20 power a pop. Not to mention that a tac squad costs 500 req to a Warriors 400 req and 15 power. You can easily get one warrior squad to each of his flamer tac squads.

Like ViS said, you honestly have no excuse. A Warrior squad won't offset you anymore than an SM player offsetting himself by getting a flamer.

[GRIM Ripper]

the counter i see is outsquad them, walk around and contest for map control until you have a huge adrenal glanded horde of warriors + gaunts. after that, as long as they dont have AOE or suppression, you are guaranteed to win just by A moving, bc you can wipe out any squad (thanks to no retreat) unless they get very lucky.

[Deionarra]

Actually you can just charge them with Hormagants if you are using the Lictor. You should have pheromones about the same time he can get a flamer. :-\

Not the worlds greatest replay, vs a TS30 SM although he seems more of a Nid player. I don't play particularly great losing my Lictor and a squad of Hormas unnecessary due to laziness on retreating and stupid pheromone placement in one fight but I think it shows what I mean.