How to beat Eldar in team games

[Owa]

Eldar seems to overwhelming omgwtfpwn me in team play. 1 on 1 they seem ok, but in team play shurikin cannons and plasma nades own my orks. As soon as my sluggas or warboss gets suppressed I have no choice but to retreat or take more damage/losses.

What do I do to solve this problem? Is the only option jump troops, that kinda screws over my entire economy for a super crappy unit.

I try to fast tech to tier 3 to get nobs and tanks, everything else orks have are made of used newspaper and goes down in under 2.5 seconds once they come under fire. Once I have warboss's claw and bigger armor he's awesome, but before that he's just buying time to tier 3.

Ork seems super power heavy. Eldar gets their wargear for 10 power - wtf is this? Ork gets a crappy big shoota for 20 power? Yet on the forums everyone seems to agree eldar got the short stick...what horrible weakness of eldar am I missing?

[Ckrow]

I generally go help one of my allies untill a flanking opportunity presents itself. Going 2v1 down a flank and then into the back of a load of plats can be devestating.

Have you tried stikkbombs? Theyre my unit of choice for taking down plats. Try and approach from behind a wall and throw grenades over.

[Gyan]

2v1 is the way to go, I'd agree on that. You'll run into similar problems at times vs SM, especially techmarines and their turrets. If it's a chokepoint, there's just no way you'll get through until you get a deff dread.

Unless, of course, you get the kommando nob, stun nade, and/or infiltrate stikks, go behind them and nade their asses. Still, once they're stunned your army needs to move in FAST, which requires very precise timing. Also is pretty costly waaghwise.
With the lag and all, I generally fail at the timing, ending up either engaging a wee bit early, or too late, resulting in losses.

The easy way to go really is 2v1. That'll force the turtling guy to either move, making him exposed, or just site at his point and weaken his team.

[Owa]

Stikbombz are not that effective of a counter to plats. You will be supressed by the plats, throw your gren and either they have another plat or a guardian squad. This means, you run your stikbombz up, get supressed, throw your nade, hit retreat, probably lose at least 1 guy in the process. Of course the stikbombz don't kill the plat...for whatever reason, just leave it with 10 health to set up again and suppress the rest of your army again. So you have to time to get your other melee units into range to finish it off before it sets up again.

The 2v1 route does seem to work, but it requires that as an ork I am relying on my teammate to be able to dislodge shurkins. Besides, eldar are the most hamstringed race according to 90% of the posts, what's the real secret I'm missing here?

Plasma grenades are an excellent counter to pushing eldar back. Assault marines are an excellent counter as well, but they require a hefty amount of power. Is it jump troops that I really need?

[Gyan]

Well you're not missing anything. Truth is Eldar isn't that weak in team games imo. I wouldn't know about 1v1, haven't really played it yet. But the plats keep them alive in t1. If the initial warlock, most often, plus guardians etc. manage to capture a VP, they'll be able to hold it quite well due to plats.

Once they hit T2, falcons and stuff start appearing, and it only gets worse T3.

As an ork, you better keep the eldar on his knees from the start. If he doesn't capture the point straight away, he'll have trouble getting it, until T2 atleast. T3 is a whole other story.

Eldar basically start off quite weak but gain in strength as the game passes. Ork is quite the opposite. We do regain some strength in T3 thanks to the Nobz, but our T3 really isn't up to Fire Prisms and Avatars imo. That, and T2 leaves us quite crippled.

Need better slugga scalability pweeze!

[Alegis]

Team games: Don't make the mistake of going 1v1, 1v1, 1v1 - it's a team game!

When you encounter a heavy shuriken emplacement, ignore it, go to your buddy next to you and push the enemy away there. Don't focus on VP, take down infantry. Meanwhile the eldar player is sitting ducks with his shurikens. He wants you to run right in front of the shurikens. Deny him that.

Once you pushed through you can attack their power (actually you can already do that, try to get a stikbommaz through and take it down) or flank the emplacement together. Maybe your teammates have better weapons available for the task? Guardians: Split your melee troop, try to tie each guardian down until they retreat. Nade evading can be tricky.

Eldar are weak in T1 so you can bully them off with your strong T1 and attack their gens. Some eldar builds (except for shuriken spam, but that's easy to take care of using above strategy) are very power reliant, prisms are expensive.

[Goobers]

I usually use 2+ stikkbommas backed up by the Kommando Nob to try and out Eldar the Eldar. That StikkBomma squad is just as strong and damaging as a Slugga Boy squad, while costing very similar to kitted out Guardians so its usually one on one.

Kommando Nob disrupts platforms and uses his global special to camo for extra sneaking when required/If I actually have any WAAARGH left. Lots'O'Stikkbombs make platforms quite worthless and always under threat, while being very good at Generator Burning so I should be able to tech up earlier than them. After the grenade exchange of mass dodging, it comes down to how well they can use their commander since StikkBommaz chop Guardians quite convincingly. Kommando Nob messes up any platforms with his Stun Grenades and maybe StikkBombs of his own, melee when required. A perfectly timed use of WAARGH will make you smile when you pull it off as da Boyz zip strait past the grenade spike and into melee, don't count on it though.

A Shoota Boy Squad with a Big Shoota for mobile suppression never hurt either, because I haven't found a good way to hurt those sodding energy shield Immolation warlocks while leaping out of flames, and Lootas suck.

Mass Harassment of generators on my behalf usually means I hit T3 by the time the Falcon comes out. Rokkits on the Kommando Nob two shot the Falcon, and mean they will never ever have a generator ever again. Booby Traps are not only great LOS removal tools, but also let you have instant ordinance on-site to blow away those freshly building generators for extra pain.

If things go really well and I can call in early Kommandoz, Burna Bombs turn the tide since I now have the Immolate ability as well.

[LandShark]

do not ever call stormboyz a super crappy unit. In the long run stormboyz will be more useful than your slugga squad. At lvl 4 each stormboy has 100 more health than a lvl 4 slugga 150ish vs 250ish, not to mention that they can get to melee combat much faster and safely compared, where they can stay in combat atleast 50% longer than a slugga squad, and deal more damage because more made it to the fight and they survived longer.

Sluggas are great for the start, but get stormboy early and take care of them and you will be pleasantly suprised.

[Steel*Faith]

Sluggas are great for the start, but get stormboy early and take care of them and you will be pleasantly surprised.

I agree, they are an expensive investment, but they are well worth it if taken care of.

I find that one Stormboy squad early on can take care of two platforms at the same time. If you fly them in to slaughter one platform, use their kamikaze attack and disrupt/damage the other platform (most eldar players i fight use two shuriken plats early). Make sure you have Sluggaz and shootaz nearby and close in for the kill.

That's a strategy I use with Warboss anyhow. If you have a Kommmando or Mek, you can tie up the platforms much easier, and don't need to sacrifice a kommando.


I try to fast tech to tier 3 to get nobs and tanks, everything else orks have are made of used newspaper and goes down in under 2.5 seconds once they come under fire. Once I have warboss's claw and bigger armor he's awesome, but before that he's just buying time to tier 3.

Ork seems super power heavy. Eldar gets their wargear for 10 power - wtf is this? Ork gets a crappy big shoota for 20 power? Yet on the forums everyone seems to agree eldar got the short stick...what horrible weakness of eldar am I missing?

I pretty much don't agree with any of this. The Warboss is still very useful even before his powerclaw, and 'eavy armor. Most games I don't even bother with 'eavy armor, and use spikey armor and it works great. His hammer is great if you're keeping him near you're allies and squads and help boost their damage effectively.

Big Shoota upgrades are very effective, and really help boost Shootaz ranged damage, not to mention give them suppression to use to pin down commanders, banshees ect. Then when you add a Nob to them, they become insanely deadly en mass. Although I don't understand why a shoota upgrade costs 20 energy, and a Guadian upgrade costs 10 energy, and the guardians get grenades, durability, and buildable cover?

Orks are very light on power compared to other armies, except for Ork commanders. That's mainly because most ork units are inexpensive when it comes to power costs.

[Gyan]

Eh I don't know..truth be told, I'm not a huge fan of the warboss. It's the hero I started with of course, but nowadays he's the one that gets the shaft.

Compared to the other races' heroes, frankly, he seems kind of meh. He provides great bonuses to troops. Yes. But I find him lacking in combat, as weird as that may sound.

Firstly, I have HUGE issues with his pathfinding. Seriously, the idiot always gets stuck everywhere, ending up behind the rest of his army.
There's a stone in the middle of the god damn square? Well yes warboss, do trip on it why don't you.

The FC, with the halo and the hammer, is a fucking beast. The warlock? with that slash blade thing? good god. The guy can be invulnerable aswell. And the Hive Tyrant? aiiii.

Yes the claw is a decent upgrade. It's by no means a great one though. His T3 armor makes him acceptable IMO. It's not worth the halo.

I dunno, compared to the commando nob, sneaking, and blasting the shit out of blobs with his explosive shell ability, or the mekboy spamming mines and teleporting all over the place, he definitely doesn't stand up.

Could be me. The most annoying thing really is the pathfinding.

[Owa]

Paladin Might -


The Warboss is still very useful even before his powerclaw, and 'eavy armor. Most games I don't even bother with 'eavy armor, and use spikey armor and it works great. His hammer is great if you're keeping him near you're allies and squads and help boost their damage effectively. Big Shoota upgrades are very effective, and really help boost Shootaz ranged damage, not to mention give them suppression to use to pin down commanders, banshees ect. Then when you add a Nob to them, they become insanely deadly en mass. Although I don't understand why a shoota upgrade costs 20 energy, and a Guadian upgrade costs 10 energy, and the guardians get grenades, durability, and buildable cover? Orks are very light on power compared to other armies, except for Ork commanders. That's mainly because most ork units are inexpensive when it comes to power costs.

I have not used the spikey armor since I thought it was not very good. So if I use this awesome spikey armor I will be able to beat guardian plasma grenades and shurikin cannons and handle the late game units? Sweet, this thread is solved. Also please explain to me the awesomeness of the warhammer - is there a melee aura attached to this thing? It's nice, but not worth the power, better to save up for the claw every time in my experience.

How are big shootas really good and not power heavy, when they cost 45 power (shoota + nob) to be effective in battle vs the 10 power guardians pay or the zero power shurikins pay. Also they die faster than almost anything in melee. Also I don't understand why you think their suppression is awesome, given that it never procs and you have to use a special ability with a cooldown to try to force it to proc and even then it doesn't proc.

Orks are very light on power? Yes, their tank bustas and war truks are cheap. Deff Dread is modest in price, but not cheap or very effective. Everything else is super expensive because Nob leaders are overpirced and warboss is power heavy.

Nobs squads cost how much power to be effective? 40 + 45 + 25 + 100 build = 210 power to be beaten by level 4 ASM 1 on 1.

Now, maybe your points are valid in 1v1, but in team games orks are made of paper with the exception of t3, a powerful t1 army is worthless when that army has to be able to cross two armies worth of ranged power to be competitive.

[Telur]

You know this has been driving me insane trying to find a counter to entrench eldar in 3 vs 3.
And all I ever hear is I have to flank them which is not possible in 3 vs 3.
At the moment I have to rush to tier2 in team games to build cans and pray that the eldar player does not have any anti tank ready.

Stikkbombas don't get close enough to throw stikk bombs and stormboyz get suppressed mid air and if you are playing a good eldar player they will have another platform covering the first.

I need some help here. Can anybody give me some idea of what to do?

[Owa]

I feel your pain Telur, fortunately there is hope, switch to SM! It works great! Sure you aren't guranteed a win vs eldar in team games, but they will happen more often than with ork. I was really surprised how much easier and more powerful SM are compared to ork.

[jujumbura]

From an Eldar's perspective, here's how we get beat in 3v3:


1) Steamroll a lane with your team.

We don't start the game with 2 shuriken plats set up next to each VP; we have to fight forward and take control of the good chokes. Know where those are and fight hard for them. Fight with your team. If you go charging around with a crew of Nids or SM, you are going to knock over platforms before they get set up, giving you at least one lane that you own and that's all you need to flank the other lanes.

2) Lag > Plasma grenades. Just keep moving.

I hope this isn't the case forever, but on your average 3v3 matchup, there's often around 1 second of control lag which makes timing nades on a charging melee opponent near impossible. If you sit behind cover or engage in a long fight near guardians, yeah you are going to get naded, but if you are closing in from all sides there's not a lot he can do. Btw, the "spike the nade and retreat" trick that everybody talks about isn't stellar; guardians caught in melee for more than a second die like ants, easily negating any losses due to the grenade. And this implies he retreated and gave up the territory as well.

3) Ignore the damn Warlock with your infantry

You gain nothing by engaging him, that's exactly what he wants you to do. But if he's chasing your sluggas around as they chase guardians, he's getting nowhere. And as long as you have melee units chasing/engaging ranged/platform units, you win.

4) Get a fast Wartrukk

How many Eldar players rush for Brightlances? Yeah, you can damage these things with plasma grenades but that is what kiting is for. Most Eldar players rely on the Falcon ( or occasoinally a WL ) for AV, and there's a big fat window you can exploit with a light vehicle. If you can push an Eldar off the lane early Tier2, he won't have the firepower to root you out till Tier3.

5) Nobs

Nobs are a problem that cannot be solved without seroiusly out-teching / out-uniting the Ork player. Yeah, they die fast to 2 Fire Prisms and a D Cannon, but if the Eldar player has only one of those on the field the Nobs can cause a shit load of damage before they're neutralized. You can guarantee that if you get Nobs in a fair fight, the Eldar will be saying "fuckfuckfuckfuck" as he frantically tries to micro each of his 6 fragile, angle-dependent squads away from them.


But TBH number 1) is the only real important one here, as if you break the Eldar's line, he's got nothing.

[Owa]

jujumbura -

Thanks for the intelligent response.


1) Steamroll a lane with your team. This is a very good idea! So long as my entire team is not ork this works well. Also, I recall at least 1 game where all our opponents were eldar on the desert map and had a shurikin cannon set up at each middle point. We split up each way and got pwn'd and they rolled us. A steamroll may have helped in that case.


2) Lag > Plasma grenades. Just keep moving. Maybe I get the sh*tend of the stick but for me lag (I do have super highspeed cable which is greater than or equal to fios) means I see the nades and even if I react immediately my troops get hit by grenades. The only way I have avoided plasma nades is by figuring out where and when they were going to throw them, before they were thrown.


3) Ignore the damn Warlock with your infantry Easier said than done, but I try. This is good advice against any combat commander in my opinion.


4) Get a fast Wartrukk I love this idea! This is actually a viable option to beat them. Unfortunately if they have already locked down the middle with their advantage in t1 by the time you get the trukk you are losing and by the time it engages you are losing even more...then by the time you dislodge them...they're tier 3 with their first prism because they had no reason to build anything in tier 2.


5) Nobs If you mean nob squads, I totally agree. If you mean nob leaders again you have the power problem of tier 2, nobs are 25 power which is insane. Shurikin cannons instant supress the squad with the nob and they die a horrible death and you're SOL.

The winning eldar strategy in team games is Warlock, 3 guardians or 1 guard and 2 shurikins. Middle map control. Tech to tier 3. Victory.

As an aside, I've been seeing Warlocks in guardian squads beat my nob squad lately in melee as well as owning hardcore by sniping from building windows. Please tell me the nob squad pain was a fluke and warlock leaders really can't stand toe to toe in melee vs ork melee units.,

Moreover, has anyone noticed how falcons with shields are beating dreads...tacts...all orks except nobs and hero....1 on 1?

Lastly, I switched to SM and all my issues handling eldar (and everything else) have gone away thanks to ASMs.

[Ruzdreg]

I only seem to play team games against the AI so my comments may useless but when ever I'm against Eldar as Orks I used to have a really hard time, useually from those platform things.

However Stikkbomas took out those great due to those platforms needing a setup and packaway time. Basically they can't escape the barrage of three stikkboms which is like instant death to them!

Deff dreads just don't seem to work against Eldar, when ever I have one it useually is taken out a minute later by a Falcon tank or by the supprise of one of those platforms carrying a brightlance.
If I see one of those platforms with infantry then it just so happens to be the shirken platform, but when I encounter them with a vehicle it just so happens to be the bright lance one - its as if their switching the weapons before they become visable.

I swear its Eldar trickery.

[Ckrow]

A teleporting mekboy with mines works wonders...

[WastedTrojan]

If i see an eldar on the other team I always use the Kommando Nob. Get him + 2 units of upgraded shoota boys early. If the eldar only has 1 shuriken cannon then your nob can stun bomb him and you can rush. If he has 2, then you can stunbomb 1 to move up into range and then use "Aiming wot's dat?" and keep him suppressed while your sluggas + kommando play clean up.

It gets awesome once you get the assashun's knife because a kommando nob with that will completely destroy a cannon team or guardian squad in about 2 seconds. He can also take down a farseer in seconds with the knife.

[Steakmancer]

Due to intense micro strategying to dodge ****storms of plasma grenades and stacks of Shruiken Cannon Teams I suggest sticking to one 'lane' of the map, and I really suggest going Kommando because Eldar units are total glass assholes. Pretty much if there is a semi-decent Eldar player in a 3v3 you can't do the classic 7 Slugga Boy blob and be hero.

In general,
Guardians: Flank if given any chance to do so, since a good Eldar player keeps them in cover during any fight. Micro against blob-gibbing plasma grenades, and Wagh! to close Ork-killing gaps.
SCs: Do your best to not get pinned and have a squad destroyed immediately, if you can't find any cover at all in a failed charge, your only good option is to press X. The T1 'hard' counter against SCs is to get some Boyz in some green cover, and flank with some more boyz and bonk 'em in the 'ead. If they staggered multiple SCs, you've been outplayed.
Rangers: Please, like anyone cares about those dykes.
WB: Oh god. Um... tie up with an expendable squad, and turn them into martyrs by chucking nades into that ****storm. If they Howl, you've been outplayed?

[Goobers]

Shoota Boyz solve all your Howling Banshee problems, buffed ones or not they aren't going to be doing much while suppressed so your Burna Boyz have their way with them.

Actually Shoota Boyz solve a lot of problems like that. Problem is trying to find the power to get them all big shootas so they can be everywhere and do everything at once.

[Sin Fang Bous]

Orks have the ability to completely overwhelm Eldar in the early game. Guardians are crap in melee and fall easily to sluggas, especially 2-4 squads of them. If you're having trouble with shuris, i'd use some stikks or stormboys to take them out. Once you get a shuriken platform into melee, they're pretty much toast.

I have huge problems with Orks as Eldar and seem to get steamrolled every damn time. My guardians just can't deal with the numbers of orks, even if I land a nade or two.

[Steel*Faith]

I never said Orks were easy to play, or that they aren't weak incomparison to the other armies atm. The only problem Eldar have is the pathetic damage of Warp Spider, and that Banshees MIGHT need some slight buffing, the rest is deadly.

Orks are by far harder to play, and nearly all their units are lackluster in comparison to to other units.

In response to your sarcasm. I use spikey armor, mainly because in team games i'm always fighting teams that rely on melee. Although his first armor upgrade is great vs Eldar, because his special stun destroys Eldar infantry, and allows you to mop up all the damaged/stunned units with your boyz.

When the Warboss attacks with his hammer, it gives surrounding units a damage boost. So if you can get your warboss in the tick of things, and crushing the frail eldar, he will make surrounding orks go into a "frenzy" and helps improve your amries damage output. Then if you pair that with the Trophy wrack, you will be reducing the damage of all Eldar units subsantially.

Eldar are the easiest race to beat at the moment with orks, from my experience anyhow. All three Ork commanders have viable, and deadly strats vs Eldar. I find that Stikkbommaz & Storm boyz are just as problamatic to Eldar, as Guardian nade are to orks.

[Steakmancer]

I really don't see how HBs need buffing. Everyone still sees them as the penultimate T1 ranged unit killer (that aren't ASMs) and with Howl, that's right. Could you please specify why HBs need buffing, per chance?

[whatsleft]

actually stormboyz are the answer to eldar. sometimes flanking is rather tough to pull it off in teammates, outright rushing with sluggas with nob leader will fail to nades, its better to hit them with stormboyz because stormboyz gets into melee immediately thus nullifying suppression and greatly reduces the chance of getting hit by nades.

also its very important in very early game, to have ur warboss rushing all the way up in ur lane to scout out for a suppression, ignore his commander, only go for his shuriken platform stubbornly, while sending ur sluggas in later to deal with the guardians. this makes sure that shuriken plats cannot deploy while ur sluggas just steamrolls everything else in the lane. then get a stormboyz squad later to kill his plats again while he sets up to claim back his lane.