Shurkien Cannon Spam

[Kommando]

Now i dont actually have the game, on account of having such a terrible computer, so i play at cyber cafes (prevalent in the country where i live). Ive been playing with my friend a lot lately and he is loving eldar. His main strategy always revolves around massed shurikens, and on the small maps, he just slaughters my men. Due to map size, he can position them overlapping meaning i really cant get at him. Also due to the fast set up time, he can readjjust for threats. Once im suppressed its gg for those units. THe only time i managed to beat it, was distracting him then getting some slugga's into melee.
While i usually get map control (as he has a very turtling mentality), he always seems to have enough to get wraithlords which slaughter my infantry, and then avatar.
Ill admit im not great at this game YET, due to lack of play, but ive tried every race against his strat and failed most times. Any input from here?

[hellic]

Seeing as you're an Ork player, this should probably go in the Ork strategy forum. Anyhow, I assume you play the Kommando Nob. At the start of the game, your opponent should only have, at most, two Shuriken plats (~50 seconds is required for both to come out, not to mention get into position). The Kommando can easily counter both of these. First, you have to find out where the shuriplats are. If you approach an area and the platforms are firing at you from max range, immediately pull back (don't hit retreat though). Cloak your Kommando and send him in to scout the area. Find the platform that is covering the first and maneuver to that one. Then, throw a stun grenade at the first shuriplat and start to melee-attack the covering plat. Rush in your Sluggas (you should have at least one squad) to finish off the helpless Shurikens.

[Zallis]

Shoota boyz with big shootaz do some pretty nice damage, on top of having the range of a support weapon like shuriken cannons. They cost power though, so may not be the most practical option if you're trying to out-number him while still teching for AV weapons.

Stikkbommaz, though, are great. Their grenades deal good damage (while suppression weapons aren't quite as damaging), and the grenade range tends to be long enough that you can still throw the grenade even if the stikkbommaz are suppressed. If you really want to be annoying, you can just toss the stikkbombs, retreat, and then move in some shoota boyz to take care of the remaining guys in the cannon team. Either he retreats the, or they die, whereas you shouldn't have taken many (or any) casualties.

Kommando nob is great for dealing with support weapons too. His stun grenade can disable one team, and he can tie up another in melee since he can infiltrate and flank the enemy position.

Out of curiosity, how is the wraithlord a problem if you have map control, and thus the resources to get a counter out in time?

Also, are your games annihilate games? Or VP games? Because a VP game doesn' usually last till an avatar if your opponent is content with turling on his corner of the map, and you have map control.

[Kommando]

Ooops should have clarified, I dont actually play orks, that was jsut the only race i won with lol. I honestly really love eldar, but since he is using them i prefer not to. If not eldar i like tyranids...

Ya my friend hates VP games, not his stlyle. If we play VP i win hands down as im more used to the fluid gameplay.
I have been able to defeat the wraithlords, but often ill have map control but he will be pushing me back to my base capturing as he goes as all my units got slaughtered by shuriplats.
I even used ASM's once, and they got suppressed then zapped by the warlock then killed as soon as they landed on one plat.

[Jester Desu]

You have to hit the back plaform first if you plan to jump onto any.

He has a slow army with set up time req'd to do anything and can only cover 1 place at a time using that strategy, so whilst he is at the victory points, why don't you go and kill his power? If he doesn't move then take the power plant too... he aint building any wraithlords with no power and you will have enough to build a vehicle to wipe out his platforms.

If he does move down to you, hit him whilst he is moving for dead platforms... they have set up time remember. Grenades of any kind work very well on platforms.

[Octopus Rex]

Well, if you're talking Annihilate then just stomp over them with vehicles there should be plenty of time. Without specifying a race you want to discuss it's going to be pretty vague and non-specifc but still: grenades as mentioned (Eldar plasma nades, or stikkbombz), anti-supression units and skills (eg Hive Tyrant + rippers), flanking & manoeuvering, stomp over with vehicles, disruption and knock back stuff. Plenty of options, but yeah plat spam is a pain.

[Jester Desu]

Plat spam is only a pain for about 180 degrees and entirely linear thinking ;)

[Aokin]

early platforms depend on the map and the match, the unmatched (?) damage and field of suppression easily justify a valid role when used properly. A single Shuriken can hold the narrowest of locations by itself, multiple Shurikens can be used to control a wider area with one protecting the flanks of another. But this can leave large areas of a map unchallenged.

specific advice depends on the army being used and to no small extent the map. Shuriken strategy is contingent on the map size and design.

for starts you could try attacking the platforms when they are moving, this happens if the Eldar goes out of their way to maintain early control over a larger area of the map than they are entitled to with platform 'spam'. When I am using a Warlock against another Eldar army with early Shurikens, if they are moment too slow in deploying it can be very easy for a Warlock to charge straight into the platform (but never a moment too late..that is always dire) or move sharply outside of the firing arc and then right towards the exposed platform.

platforms are very powerful, but require careful timing and placement, even a moments delay or lack of cover can be fully utilised by careful players.

[Octopus Rex]

It can be a pain 3v3 if you're facing all Eldar as certain 3v3 maps are very claustrophobic. Yeah, not impossible to counter, but a pain if all 3 corridors on Argus gate are locked down ASAP.

[Kommando]

Ya i realize my skill level isnt at a fantastically high level, but im working on it. The problem is so many units move slowly, and he uses his warlock to push back units, or to disrupt any of my own suppression units.
Im heading over to the cyber cafe in an hour or so, id post a replay, but i dont think its possible from there. Ill tell u guys whats happened when its over. Ill try the ripper tyrant thing along with some warriors with AG.
Ya the fact that htey can shut down large parts of the map, and then leapfrog forward means i ahve to devote a fair part of my army to dealing with it.

[SteinerNein]

@ Jester Desu

ViS was beaten by platform usage; don't be so arrogant.

[Jester Desu]

Lol, you accuse me of being arrogant? Pot calling kettle black I think... You support it by "Vis was beaten by it..." that sounds really childish you know? Enough, I will not feed the troll...

Educate me then and show me a replay of effective platforms, I know you've mentioned using them to good effect before. most of what I see on game replays involves no platforms at all. I obviously have something to learn here though.

I do use them occasionally, but only usually versus orks and nids and don't personally go for the two shuri's overlapping each other. I never had a problem dealing with them in the past because of the set up times. Just making them move gets them in a lot of trouble.

EDIT: I concede that what I was saying did come across as a bit arrogant actually. I've never seen platform spam used effectively (until d-cannons come into the mix)

That's obviously not to say the tactic "cannot" be effective. I do need to see some examples though..

[SteinerNein]

There are replays out there of it, Jester. There is also a replay of me using it. And you know what? Since when does spam consist of two units. By that standard you're spamming pretty much every unit in the game at some point in time.

And whether or not that sounds childish it's a standard and has qualifications behind it unlike yours, now whether they're high or low is up to you to decide but it at least gives you an approximation of what is out there.

Your mentality is utter crap on that note. =/

[Jester Desu]

Wow, I almost fell asleep whilst reading that second paragraph, you really appear to like the sound of your own voice!(that's coming from somebody else who also posts a lot) Good job I'm not here to argue or I would actually have to try and understand what it is you're attempting to say there.

I'll search for some replays of course. I see what you mean about 2 units not being spamming and admit it's not the best use of the word, 2 shuriken platforms is still pretty unusual though.

[ViS]

Someone can't accept it when people call them out on their ignorance, I see. Static platforms are easy to beat, unlike well-played offensive platforms which are going for your generator farms.

[SteinerNein]

@ Jester

You're not here to learn either.

The ideal situation involves you taking a piece of information - let's take WSE is a decent hero or Platforms can be utilized effectively - and then using it to figure out game mechanics so you understand them yourself rather than experiencing them without knowing them first hand. In other words, explore it on your own once given the hint. The rewards are much more valuable and you prevent redundancy in having to go back to the basics.

Furthermore, if you're here to learn you would not be giving advice (poor advice at that - zero mechanical understanding) and instead be asking questions to which I would have to oblige. Asking for a replay is just lazy and does you little to no good (replay system sucks too).

The reason you think 2 plat is unusual is because , again, you have zero mechanical understanding. There is a thread out there in this very forum (Eldar Strategy) which points you to why it isn't so unusual and then there are statistics which you can compile yourself.

The irony here is that you think way too linear in a casual environment.

[Jester Desu]

according to you i don't know anything about game mechanics?

according to you i give poor advice with zero mechanical understanding

according to you i assume 2 plats is unusual because i have zero mechanical understanding

/debate. well done steiner, you win another one by sheer asshole'ness. i'm not debating with somebody who has such little respect (or actual knowlege of) my experience/opinions.

back to the original topic...


even when plats are used agressively they still have that set up/pack up time and take a while to get from one place to another. that's what i was trying to point out as their general weakness... make them move them to you.

if he goes for one power plant it's sometimes even easier to cap the vp's whilst he is doing this and build a new power farm elsewhere... you can also hit his power too, he is gonna take longer to get back there with his plats than he would with a load of guardians. you can also hit the useless moving plats whilst he is on his way to you.

[SteinerNein]

It wasn't up for debate, I am just telling you flat out that you have no understanding of game mechanics.

Let me ask you this though: Do you know what game mechanics are? Can you define it? You might not even be on the same page as me.

[Jester Desu]

Are you done maturbating over your own greatness? Anything useful to say about shuriken platforms / mainly combats to counter multiple ones... that's what this thread is about.

[SteinerNein]

I asked you a simple question to help you out, but you know what, I am sure you're intelligent enough to figure it out yourself. That or you'll lose in the ESL to it as someone else has it figured out. =/

You're pretty narrow minded though considering that what there is to say is completely dependent on your understanding of game mechanics and if you don't know I could clarify for you but meh. GL!

[Shinova]

While we're on shuriken cannons, I have been having problems dislodging enemy concentrations and setting up my own shuriken formations. For example when I try to take a VP back from a group of enemies and want to shower them in shuriken fire. Any suggestions?

[Aokin]

Shurikens are devastating when effectively placed for an attack on power supplies. They can remove the power node as well as the generators in less than a minute. Unlike most other units this type of tactic is identical to how Shurikens would function in a range of circumstances.

both Frontier and Green Tooth Gorge have design elements for favourable Shuriken placement, not just to safely assault the power node and generators, but also to force the directions in which a response will come.

the layout of Green Tooth Valley requires a more deliberate transition from holding territory to performing specific assaults. A player that understands the strengths and limitations of early platforms will move into and through exposed openings on such a map. But that is what makes the game all that more interesting.

what I am trying to do presently is incorporate Banshees into a platform design, not so much towards a specific end but to see how much the combination can be used dynamically. Of course Banshees are not exceptional units to lead or draw fire, being a general requirement of platforms. Related to that approach I have also started experimenting with the Channeling Runes. Although the complications are evident, I would like to accomplish some measure of synergy, if only for more fun and versatile options in team games.

edit: Shinova, depends at what point in the game you find this problematic. Early game, Shurikens can leapfrog into position, although this can be too much of a commitment. Warp Throw is the easiest method of forcing units into Shuriken range. Warp Throw+Grenades+Shuriken fire appears to be an instant retreat mechanism :) In time I would like to see just how effective knockdown is with Guardian units.

[Kommando]

Played last night for a few games, unfortunately they were all 3v3's and ended up being carni and avatar spamfests... :( Not my ideal gametype.
Yet ive found some good luck using the ravenors burrow to scatter the gun platforms and then rush in with rippers to tie them up.
But while some fo you say its a pretty easy strategy to beat, and ill admit i might not be pro enough to be able to see an easy solution, the shuriplat is very hard to counter in small games. For example on green tooth jungle he can get shuriplats all the way up to my main generator, and pin all my infantry down. He will usually go for a mass of 3 shuriplats, with supporting guardians to get my infantry once its pinned. Trying to flank ends up my units having to take the LONG way around, and by then he has already bunkered down and i cant get close (he usually has one watching the rear)
The ironic thing is that this was actually my strategy so to speak, and i kept beating him with it lol. Then i got bored of the repetition and he picked it up. I can beat it playing eldar, but i dont want to do it that way.

[SteinerNein]

Aokin.

All maps do. Unless you're a very good Tyranid player there is no way you're going to stop another player from sacking your gen farm.

You need to stop screwing with the platform build unless you know EXACTLY what you're going for.

Like I told Jester who has zero understanding of game mechanics, platforms have a DIRECT consequence and direct benefit when building it.

It's a han bang maneuver in case I haven't made it obviously clear. You do not han bang and then go banshees. You go with Wraith Lords.

If any of you had any understanding or want understanding go look under this forum and look at the TIMING THREAD by me. It should be BLATANTLY obvious how you should structure your BOs when you figure out and utilize that knowledge.

[Ap0k]

Ok. If you're not going to post here and attempt to further the discussion by bringing some measure of assistance or reasoning to your posts, then get out.

This 'lol ur too dumb to figure it out' shit stops now. This is not a forum where you come to get your superiority complex fix. If you want to help people, then help. If you don't, then don't post.

The vast majority of this thread has been taken up by two people having some kind of internet version of a scuffle behind the school bike sheds, and it's now at an end. If you want to be juvenile, go somewhere else. These aren't the forums for you.

Now kindly get back to the main topic of the thread and drop the sniping.

Thank you.

[Aokin]

regarding the present map selection, it is feasible to use Shurikens to assault power supplies. However I do not think all maps ensure equivalent success. As the case with Green Tooth Valley, the duration required, platform placement and the various angles of counter are factors to be evaluated for ascertaining an advantageous time to attack.

it simply does not follow how my comparison testing with alternating units undermines the early use of Shurikens, that would entail a limitation of Shurikens, being contrary to other points on the same matter. Moreover as was explained my intent is to better understand how effective these units can operate combined. The principle reason for this is because I believe that with Warp Throw and Shurikens it should be possible to devise a small team of units capable of both capturing and effectively removing a squad of units before safely retreating. If that is not entirely possible then accomplishing a sudden concentration of damage to significantly reduce numbers.

Warp Throwing units into Shuriken fire typically places them in the outer range, suppression still takes place with focus from the Warlock and Banshees effecting a reasonable damage but more often an insufficient quantity to reliably eliminate a squad. What I might attempt is to attack with the Warlock with the sudden appearance of a Shuriken moving into place. In this manner the distance a unit can be moved into the Shuriken's range is generally shortened.

an alternate possibility is to make use of the Warp Spider Exarch, overall he might enable a unique flexibility to compliment the brnaching course of an opening design.

[SteinerNein]

Aokin, the map generally doesn't matter given how fast shuri plats travel often the larger it is the more successful you will be. Game mechanics again.

Game mechanics dictate what you can and can't do Aokin, whether or not you win despite that is solely due to you out playing someone not because the mechanics were present. That's never a real solution.

Because of how the game is you cannot afford to alternate units with Shuriplats. Game lethality opens at tier 2 and platforms do not scale while the other units do scale. Mechanically, you're at a disadvantage because of one unit. Furthermore, look at the timing thread - I pretty much point out what and when counters roll out.

I will continue to stress game mechanics. Your examples are not wrong but they have no place here. Game mechanics are defined by things such as timings, resource rate (which is tied to timing often), number statistics (unit stats etc.). Hence out of all unit configurations there is an optimal for each and the entire game has a map to it. Everything contrary to that is simply player skill but player skill and mechanics exist INDEPENDENTLY of each other.

Much like how I stressed earlier, you need to pay attention to timings/game mechanics.

Game mechanics aren't, like how many think, what a unit purely does. Mostly everyone knows what X function does but the real thing is what X function implies under Y setting.

[Aokin]

precisely speaking, game mechanics only dictate raw possibilities, not the applications and limitations to those ends. Thus the entirety of such a discussion is one that is necessarily understood in terms of strategy.

ah, mechanically speaking I already made mention of the Shuriken platform's utility for dismantling the opposing force's power supplies. What I further touched upon is the varying strategic requirements to accomplishing those ends.

scaling is not justifiably an exclusive criteria for unit utility, inherent functionality is more comprehensively derived from an array of factors, with a more generally understood relation ascertaining when a unit's functioning declines to match cost in relation to ongoing developments. As it is, the investment (for the present comparison) takes place alongside all other tier 1 units. Hence the rationale of effective scaling is largely moot when noting that none of the Eldar starting units scale to meet the full spectrum of challenges present in tier 2.

to do away with unnecessarily construed points, although my discussion of the possible uses of Banshees and Shurikens were not (besides the possible Warp Spider approach) strictly in reference to an opening build. It should nonetheless be implicit that to do so would be to emphasise a tier 1 approach in recognition of both the advantages and disadvantages. In no small part a standard aspect of game strategy - reading the opposition's army.


Game mechanics aren't, like how many think, what a unit purely does. Mostly everyone knows what X function does but the real thing is what X function implies under Y setting.

absolutely, which is why 'all maps do' is neither a direct response to my original comments or one that satisfactorily accounts for all possibilities.

[SteinerNein]

precisely speaking, game mechanics only dictate raw possibilities, not the applications and limitations to those ends. Thus the entirety of such a discussion is one that is necessarily understood in terms of strategy.


Untrue, because you're talking about the whole game which is a decision tree and there is always the most optimal answer and never equals.



ah, mechanically speaking I already made mention of the Shuriken platform's utility for dismantling the opposing force's power supplies. What I further touched upon is the varying strategic requirements to accomplishing those ends.


SPs are tactical weapons not strategic weapons in the sense. Trying to use it strategically will invariably result in failure. Hence, as I said to you earlier it is a han bang unit which is inherently built in precisely because of other factors influencing it along with the fact that Eldar units do scale competitively with the exception of a few - SP included.

And right now all maps is a direct response because the only maps out there all facilitate han bang maneuvers. Conceptually, you might dock a point off for that remark but the game's current state allows for generator harassment.



to do away with unnecessarily construed points, although my discussion of the possible uses of Banshees and Shurikens were not (besides the possible Warp Spider approach) strictly in reference to an opening build. It should nonetheless be implicit that to do so would be to emphasise a tier 1 approach in recognition of both the advantages and disadvantages. In no small part a standard aspect of game strategy - reading the opposition's army.


That must necessarily be rejected precisely because it defies game mechanics much like a lot of posters when asking for counters list things that are not viable mechanically but hypothetically could. Hence, any discussion of units must include opening builds and map variations if there are any.

That is why it is necessary to understand timings.

You cannot derive a unit's full functionality without regard to game mechanics.

[MeditationError]

@Kommando: Shuriplats have numerous hard counters try one or more of these:
eldar: rangers, any vehicles, d-cannons
sm: upgraded scouts, assault marines, vehicles of any kind, plasma cannons, terminators.
ork: wartrukk, stikkbommas (you could try storm boyz, but...)
tyranids: rippers, spore mines (you can actually float spore mines right into the front of a setup weapon team and expect to kill it).

My moneys on rippers, rangers, or a quick wartrukk or razorback, depending on your race.

[Aokin]

Untrue, because you're talking about the whole game which is a decision tree and there is always the most optimal answer and never equals.

to claim that a certain mechanic can operate regardless of extraneous requirements necessarily must, is, to say the least, without any suitable basis. We have both stated Shurikens can effectively attack power nodes, but doing so occurs in relation to a series of factors independent of that capability.


SPs are tactical weapons not strategic weapons in the sense. Trying to use it strategically will invariably result in failure. Hence, as I said to you earlier it is a han bang unit which is inherently built in precisely because of other factors influencing it along with the fact that Eldar units do scale competitively with the exception of a few - SP included.

the fielding of a Shuriken is a deliberate commitment to a type of strategy, much as any other intentional unit selection. Tactical use is derived from the strategic plan; to avoid obfuscation of related terms, tactical usage includes updating their deployment in correspondence to battlefield status.


And right now all maps is a direct response because the only maps out there all facilitate han bang maneuvers. Conceptually, you might dock a point off for that remark but the game's current state allows for generator harassment.

the point of difference is the insistence of certainty.


That must necessarily be rejected precisely because it defies game mechanics much like a lot of posters when asking for counters list things that are not viable mechanically but hypothetically could. Hence, any discussion of units must include opening builds and map variations if there are any.

an intended purpose has already been discussed, which as a special unit combination can find a role within a variety of conventional designs. The possibility of a flexible opening was already mentioned as well the intended projection for later tiers. By contrast there is a potential scenario which 'necessarily' rejects feasibility, for matters of testing relations, that is a premature conclusion.


That is why it is necessary to understand timings...You cannot derive a unit's full functionality without regard to game mechanics.

this goes without saying and has not been contested either. This much is accurate - a meaningful account cannot be referenced at a loss of information.

[Kommando]

@Kommando: Shuriplats have numerous hard counters try one or more of these:
eldar: rangers, any vehicles, d-cannons
sm: upgraded scouts, assault marines, vehicles of any kind, plasma cannons, terminators.
ork: wartrukk, stikkbommas (you could try storm boyz, but...)
tyranids: rippers, spore mines (you can actually float spore mines right into the front of a setup weapon team and expect to kill it).

My moneys on rippers, rangers, or a quick wartrukk or razorback, depending on your race.

D-cannons are 3rd tier...
But for the other stuff yes, the ripper thing is a good idea. So far ive been countering with a ravenor (burrowed) to distrupt their formation, then rush in with rippers. All the while going for warriors.
What do u think about that?

[SteinerNein]

@ Aokin

In this game setting, at its current stage, there is no uncertainty. That is the difference between our two lines of thought; I claim that the map has no deviations and you say that the status may or may not change.

In adherence to the strict definition of game mechanics which I have laid out by both example and definition it cannot have variation. Everything is in an inevitability. Note that it is important that I am leaving out player skill and that I am saying this is a perfect environ.

Hence, the deployment of shuriplats cannot be updated due to their inherent nature and the other factors in the game such as timings etc. Furthermore, by doing so is a rejection of your earlier scenario which you tried to prove flexibility when in fact it does not exist. For once you have destroyed their generators and denied power the usage of platforms immediately decreases. Since this is an inevitability according to game mechanics the optimal map only includes them to early tier 2 before they become obsolete.

In order for game mechanics to work there cannot be variance.

@ Kommando

Ravener/Kommando/Warp Spider Exarch/Rangers/Scouts/Vehicles/Stikk bombas/Ripper Swarms/ Other Suppression Weapons / Lictor / Guardians / Flame Throwers / Warp Spiders

Yeah a huge counter list.

[Aokin]

In this game setting, at its current stage, there is no uncertainty. That is the difference between our two lines of thought; I claim that the map has no deviations and you say that the status may or may not change.

outcomes of specified relations do not vary, whereas the conveyance and application of such are mediated by a range of possible factors. Differing map arrangements (from "all maps" to "the map", I am very easy person, but I also have plenty of my own concerns to preoccupy me) modify probabilities to an abstracted instance. And having just previously concluded on the same mischaracterisation, this persistent attempt at contorting my position into a false dichotomy only undermines legitimacy. No such contrast or division was made on my behalf when discussing differences between battlefield design necessitating varying requirements.


In adherence to the strict definition of game mechanics which I have laid out by both example and definition it cannot have variation. Everything is in an inevitability. Note that it is important that I am leaving out player skill and that I am saying this is a perfect environ.

in the framework of my original, if terse, comments on map arrangements, which these points were put to, a perfect situation holds no relevance. Perfect conditions to retract analysis of map strategy is nonsensical. Also, since all manner of oddities in claims and reasoning is taking place, I will remind that player skill was in fact mentioned.


Hence, the deployment of shuriplats cannot be updated due to their inherent nature and the other factors in the game such as timings etc. Furthermore, by doing so is a rejection of your earlier scenario which you tried to prove flexibility when in fact it does not exist. For once you have destroyed their generators and denied power the usage of platforms immediately decreases. Since this is an inevitability according to game mechanics the optimal map only includes them to early tier 2 before they become obsolete.

'cannot be 'redeployed' because of an inherent nature'. Mayhaps according to your utilisation, or claimed 'mechanics'. Though I can, at the least, easily speculate on a few perfect environs.

rather than unduly critiquing the preliminary conjecture of others, I would assume we both have better uses of our time and focus than to obviate such endeavours with a largely counterproductive divergence.

[SteinerNein]

@ Aokin

Let me restate the argument:

The point is this, mathematically there are X possibilities problems, only Y amount of solutions are available and Z amount of optimal solutions. Hence, perfect scenario. This is how every RTS works and how the top players manage it. It is an internal system that works regardless of player skill. Once a player deviates , depending on how far , determines the scale of the loss.


Strategy and variation do not come from game mechanics but exploiting the human psyche hence, metagame.

I am strictly concerned with game mechanics because any build order must adhere to those first. And your analysis does not fit because mechanically it is unsound.

Hence, my objection to your platform usage. It does not follow the map and the later on claims such as in conjunction with others never appears (because it precisely is mechanically invalid).

It is necessary to say that possible factors beyond the optimal should always be ignored because they mislead players into thinking what is actually effective. While it must be conceded that different maps equates to different results, in its current game setting does not contain enough deviation to warrant a conclusion that says otherwise (ie. that some maps are better than others for power assault) .

If you understood game mechanics underneath the terms that I high lighted in earlier statements you could not really say my utilization considering it isn't utilization but how it works (hence mechanics).

I hesitate to reveal my build order but for the sake of the argument since you do not understand I will put forward a clue: if you're going to use platforms with banshees etc it's wasteful because those resources used do not have the same staying power as Falcons or Wraith Lords. hence, if you did that you are now automatically stuck with a loss until your opponent screws up.

Furthermore, denying power means that their tech slows down which opens up the time frame for vehicles while the time frame for infantry remains the same. That being said your previous advice given to other people is particularly bad.

[Aokin]

the assertion is not misunderstood, rather the insisted depiction has not evinced independence of the varying requisites to enact any such scenario.

any possible outcome can only be qualified by full reference to the system in which its possibility and relevance (critical distinction for more abstract notions) is determined. Thus, actualisation of the same generalised outcome invariably alters according to the conditions in which the process occurs. To claim otherwise it must be shown how interaction within the system is nonetheless independent of any factor that can be indicated as demonstrating possible mediation. As it is, a perfect scenario is defined by a totality of factors rather than an incommensurable exclusion.