View Full Version : Space marines overpowered vs orks. replay included
19th Mar 09, 12:27 AM
watch the replay.
1)SM player too lazy to dodge nades
2. every ork unit dies before being able to throw nade or close the distance. mowed down while on retreat.
3.def dread fail
4. lootas failed to do their job.
5. missile launcher too cheap and overly effective at countering any vehicle treat.
esp number 4.
a tac blob attacked move and wiped out loota squad from range.
as seen from this replay, lootas need a serious buff.
wartrukk needs a high DPS buff. 7(wartrukk) vs 49 razorback.
link to replay.
seriously has any SM player ever lost to an ork player?
i think not.
19th Mar 09, 5:55 AM
Just so you know, i'm extremely honest when reviewing game replays or player skills.
1) you hit the SM perhaps twice with a decent grenade, the other times you either grenaded your self or the SM dodged.
2) you ran a squad of tankbustas into 3 squads of tacticals unsupported, what did you think would happen.
3) you attacked a power node, got flanked and then sat there repairing whilst a ML shot it down easily.
4) You built a loota squad in late tier2/early tier3, set it up out of cover and expected it to kill 2 plasma tacts and a ML tact squad? really?
5) His ML squad destroyed 1 deff dread because you failed to move it, hardly proof of it being "too cheap" or "overly effective"
Honestly, you got outplayed by a SM player that wasn't very good.
where were the slugga boys and shoota boys? you seemed to build nothing but stickbommas and then failed to use them for anything other than throwing grenades, you ran away from an FC with a powersword with 2 squads of stickbommbas and a mek...why?
On repeated occassions you would send in 1 squad of stickbommas to try and tackle his 2-3 tact squads instead of conjoining your forces and making a big push.
you never really made an effort to go for the VPs and instead seemed far more concerned with taking out his power node.
Watch it again your self and take note of the individual mistakes you made which caused you to lose.
19th Mar 09, 6:22 AM
Im at work so cant watch the replay, and after reading saias post it doesnt seem like theres any reason. Im a quite good SM player, and wipe the floor with an avare orc. But when i meet orc players around my own skill lvl its an even fight.
Orc's force are their high numbers, if you dont use em like that they are worthless. I suggest you find some replays of good orc players and see what they can do if used correctly.
19th Mar 09, 6:32 AM
Stopped watching around 6 minutes.
Play better, whine less.
General pointers to help you play better;
Grenades go towards the enemy.
StikkBommaz can actually be used in melee.
You can build Shoota Boyz and Slugga Boyz in T1.
Kill the opponents units first, then go for the generators since they don't actually kill your guys.
Build generators of your own.
Your Slugga Boy squad did more damage to the Tac Marines than your StikkBommaz ever did.
Shoota Boyz are better than Lootaz, and cheaper.
Commanders take Sod all damage from grenades.
If you are capable of cheesing out on teleporting mines, you are plenty capable of not continuously tossing grenades at your own units. That's a good place to start.
19th Mar 09, 7:03 PM
1. Go kommando nob
2. Get the knife and extra supplies.
You can now use the knife ability multiple times in short succession (the ability instantly recharge if you kill something with it), this makes you go through a tac squad in a few secs. You can stealth in and get one hit off with the knife ability = 80+ req reinforce for the SM. Keep wearing him down.
3. stikkbommas are overrated vs SM. Go 3xsluggas -> kommando nob gear -> T2 with nob leaders -> tankbustahs and maybe a lootah or a trukk depending on what the SM gets.
19th Mar 09, 7:11 PM
Warboss or Mekboy would have worked fine in that match as well, kommando nob would've just made it easier. You'd want to use both at range, though.
Against SM, you really want to use a combination of sluggaz for your meleeand one squad of shootaz in the back (use them especially against shottie scouts.) The trick is surviving until you can get trukks and deff dreadz out. Trukks work great against any non-AV infantry. Deff dreadz are not terribly useful versus SM and don't bother with the looted tank. You'll do better with more infantry.
Get a squad or two of Nobs out quickly. If you're using the kommando nob, pair him up (using the rocket launcher or knife, depending on target) with a squad or two of normal koms for a fairly effective ambush force.
19th Mar 09, 7:18 PM
santiago is right, stikkbommas are over rated against sm, since sm has so much hp/man, they are high resistant to nades.
19th Mar 09, 8:13 PM
Stikkbommaz however do do knockdown in melee, so mixing one in with your Sluggaz is always a sound plan.
23rd Mar 09, 9:01 AM
I stikkbommaz vary from match to match with the space marines. If they go high suppression+ garrison units, they work wonders even against experienced players who know how to exit a building. A player can't watch every point on the map at once.
Another thing you can do is go Warboss + 3 sluggas. One slugga to cap at first, and the other two to support the Warboss. 2 sluggas will kill a TAC in tier 1 if they surrounded it. If the Warboss gets involved it gets really messy. Just use the Waggh ability on the first Slugga squad, and when they retreat use the second to keep up and finish the squad off, or take down another member.
And try to surround units. Don't push 'move a' or directly target units with both Sluggas and the Warboss. Move one Slugga squad past your target into their retreat path and the other to directly target them. Then move the slugga behind the unit to attack. If they get surrounded, they'll have an extremely hard time retreating and up the chance of you finishing them off. This works particularly well with Scouts. This strat works in tier 2 with Nobz even more effectively.
I don't field Shootas in 1v1, only 3v3.
Never send one Slugga Squad against a TAC unless you need to tie them up. They WILL loose. Always use two or involve the Warboss.
And I'm finding the Deff Dread to be extremely effective against the Space Marines. You have to upgrade them of course... and send them to attack anti-vehicle. Once tied up they will either retreat or loose a few squad members. Any damage and have the Dread retreat and repair it. At level 2 and level 3, they become Tac and Devastator murderers. In two attacks they will eat a single TAC alive.
Seriously, repair your dreads. They become EXTREMELY effective at level 3 and 4, and there is almost no excuse to since Sluggas can repair... their low health can be compensated by the fact that they will stay on the battlefield a long time if properly managed.
Once again... never send a Dread alone. They have to be supported... Sluggas and the Warboss will have to target another squad.
Besides the annoying squad tax issue that makes you see way too many Space Marines on the field way too quickly (scrubz!), they can go toe to toe with Space Marines any day of the week.
24th Mar 09, 10:22 AM
In my games my issue with Orks are when they are against Walkers or more relating to this thread the SM "Dreadnoughts".
I useually have to build 2 Tankbusta mobs and keep running away from the Dread or tie it up with sluggas to actually kill it as the many barrages of rockets don't do too much damage to it and the Dread has pleanty of time to walk up and start killing off 3/4 of my army before it dies......unless I run away and try stalling it with cannon fodder.
When there are 2 Dreads - that's time to go home.
Deff dreads are only anti-tank in melee and we all know they aren't going to win against a Dread (Even if you had 2 Deff's together fighting the Marines Dread, you'll still going to loose 1 Deff Dread) and you can't rely on Sluggas repairing it as more than likely those Sluggas will be attacked by other units from the opposing race.
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