Dawn of War suggestions thread

[Beelzebuddy]

Seeing as how this game is brand spanking new to development, I thought it'd be a good idea to start up a thread to post general things for the devs to think about as this game makes the tenuous transition from zygote to embyro. Or maybe from "a twinkle in AlexG's eye" to gamete. Whatever.

I think I speak for a good number of members when I say that bigger armies = a better game. Skirmishes where hundreds of units fight and die, major battles where thousands are lost, this is what makes a player feel truly powerful.

Also, I'd like to see moddable unit AI incorporated into the game. It would allow players freedom to experiment with different shades of unit control. Also, combined with map and unit mods, a sort of CRobots mini-game isnt all that hard to imagine. Either of these would make this AI geek's day. Not to mention it'd be the first time moddable unit AI is integrated into a professional video game.

[ÜberJumper]

Hmmmm perhaps a warhammer 40k suggestion forum is in order...

[Beelzebuddy]

Bit early for that, I'd wager. I suspect that currently everyone at Relic is simply looking at each other and saying "so... what do you want to do?" A massive thread chock full of general community ideas would probably be of more use to them right now.

Perhaps we should wait until they have something, then open a suggestions forum and fill it with "I wanna battleship" threads.

Or make one now. It's up to the mods.

[ÜberJumper]

I think this game's been in development for almost a year... it's a bit past the "So, what do you want to do" stage.

[Shadione]

Uber is right, it's been in production for just over a year, and the concepts for it were established 6 months before that, basically right as I was peeling off from IC. We're in full production right now, with our design vision firmly established. The game is fully playable, and quite fun. :)

[32bit]

At the moment... the only suggestion I have is for mod tools to be freely available from the day that the game is released, or within a week of that date. I know it's a long way away from release, but I don't want it to be the case where we have a game that suffers from mod tools that are near sub-standard.

I'd also suggest that the game not deal with ALL of the 40k races.. although the game has already been in dev for a year now, so this may not be easily changed. Between the imperium, chaos, eldar, tyranids, dark eldar, orks, necrons and tau, there are dozens of unit types.

I'd prefer a system similar to that of warcraft III, with an epic, intertwining plot stretching across a few race-specific campaigns.

Each race would have a broad selection of units to pick from, with the more specialised units popping up in certain missions (i.e Inquisitors or Imperial Guard in the Space Marine campaign, or Avatars and Farseers for the Eldar missions).

This would allow relic to really polish units across a few races, instead of having to worry about two hundred unit types.

[Russian Ninja]

Can I ask you a question, Shadione. On what scale are we opperating on in this game? Would it be Epic sized with Titans and legions of dudes slaughtering eachother? Or will it be more regular 40K with relatively small scale with plenty of units, and yet small enough for special characters like Commissars to really shine.

Oh, and as for suggestions, I suggest that you keep as much of the spirit in the game as possible, without compramising the strategic value of the game. And also, keep as close as possible to the "Fluff". IE, keep as close as possible to the stories, backgrounds and other general pieces of info about the game.

EDIT: Another suggestion I guess is that if you have Special Characters like Inquisitors, Warbozzez, Daemon Princes, Commissars, etc. etc. balanced into the gameplay so that they are an intergrated part of strategy. My though would be to have them support units that they are "attached to", lending their brutal strength and power to the units, as well as their special skills (ie, Commissars make the units fearless and fight with more power due to the "inspiration" they inspire via Executions, Priests could whip up whatever unit they're assigned to into a frenzy, making them more suicidal and fanatical, but also more careless and less likely to bother shooting, etc.). However, I suggest that Special Characters be tempered with so that they are not invincible killing machines and can get easily overwhelmed if they are left alone, so it is not possible to stage a one-Commissar assault on the traitor's platoons and expect to win.

[thesamonthemoon]

I'm not sure if the "thousands of guys on the map" idea is really in the vein of warhammer 40K.

In warhammer (regular), you move boxes of guys around in groups which are in tight formations. Using this style, I could see a game with a few-hundred guys.

In WH40K, you move the squads around, but you also move individual units.

I suppose Relic already has the unit dynamics worked out though... Yes?


Originaly Posted by Shadione

The game is fully playable, and quite fun.Does this imply the posibility that we will get to see screenshots at some point in the near furure? :)

[AdrianWerner]

I wonder..how many races/armies will Relic include? I mean.there are quite many of them in WH40k..especialy nowadays when GWS added couple of new armies. I`m calm in this case, because from concept art I deduce that my favorite Chaos Space Marines are in the game :D But I wonder if my second-fav..DarkEldars will be there also

. About scale of battles..I don`t think going TotalWar is best idea..afterall the game is called WH40K, not Epic..also..going to small scale is also bad idea, since it`s not Necromunda :)

man..i`m so excited..can`t wait for Relic to release more details. About armies, game system, scale, tabletop rules representation(like morale etc)...funny...I have seen only once concept art..and already i`m more excited about this game than about GroundControl2 :)

[Aliasalpha]

Originally posted by thesamonthemoon
Does this imply the posibility that we will get to see screenshots at some point in the near furure? :)

Sod screenshots, I want a DEMO! Or an ingame video I suppose.

As long as it has a solid single player storyline and interesting missions (preferrably free from resource gathering) I'll be happy. A full on mission maker would make my day (As well as my missions)

To make me Uber-Happy, it'd take the mighty Dark Angels to be the main army though I'd be happy with any of them (except the blood angels or ultramarines). Hell, selection of the marine chapter/craftworld/orky klan or equevelant would be freakin awesome.

[Falcrum]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AdrianWerner
. About scale of battles..I don`t think going TotalWar is best idea..afterall the game is called WH40K, not Epic..also..going to small scale is also bad idea, since it`s not Necromunda :)

Actually Epic 40K is part of the Warhammer 40K hobby game selection, so it still is technically Warhammer 40K.

[Retroboy]

Now that's asking too much. :/ Saying a game is "fully playable" is LIGHT YEARS away from indicating a demo can be delivered.

-- Retro

[AdrianWerner]

Originally posted by Falcrum
[QUOTE]Originally posted by AdrianWerner
. About scale of battles..I don`t think going TotalWar is best idea..afterall the game is called WH40K, not Epic..also..going to small scale is also bad idea, since it`s not Necromunda :)

Actually Epic 40K is part of the Warhammer 40K hobby game selection, so it still is technically Warhammer 40K.
It` all depends on how you treat "WH40K" that apears before "Dawn of War"..as a name of certain game or as a name of universe :)

[Jagdcarcajou]

Heya,

Here is what I would like to see in the core engine/mechanics:

No unit construction. I think this is a perfect medium for a game mechanic like they used for Blitzkrieg/Sudden Strike I & II. That is, all of your units are available at the start of a mission, and there is no harvesting, building, etc... You just need to concentrate on fighting and tactics. Additional units could be available as reinforcements at a specified time, or when certain conditions are met. Or you could have a certain number of drop troops to be used at your discretion.

Taking this a step forward, I would love to see a force selection screen prior to any mission. Here, you would get a set number of points to buy your forces and any special gear (ala the tabletop game). This was great in Chaos Gate (not a great game, but it had a very cool outfitting setup).

Also, units should gain meaningful veterancy. If they survive, you should be able to name the leaders, and see them progress from say, Space Marines Scouts, to Space Marines, to Space Marine Veterans, to Terminators. That would include vet seargents, etc.. as well. If the scope is epic, this will be less meaningful, but if it is more like grand skirmish (like 4000-10000 points in table terms) then this would be cool.

And awesome graphics. Hell, knowing Relic I expect to see customizable color schemes for each race, so even if they don't specifically include Imperial Fists, you will probably be able to color your marines to look like them!

Chris

[Tyryt]

Well, it's being done by Relic, it should be pretty good.

What I would like to see is something along the lines of a blur between RTS and Turn based. IE: command phase, you issue move and fire orders for each unit, then all the unit carry out their orders simultaneously. This would be the important part, where you give formations, special functions, etc. This would be something very original to the genre, and would fit very well into the hobby.

NO resource gathering or building of units. In other words, you build your army and then fight it out. With some of the by-lines that have been released by Relic already (talk of it being on the leading edge of the battle), I think and hope this is a strong possibility as it will get more into tactics and less into "I harvested more and developed more things quicker, nyah nyah".

Access to ALL of the races. If this is NOT possible in the first release, then do a variety, Chaos (given as it's already being used for propagan.. err, sales), Guard, Eldar and Tyranids (simply because they are played vastly different than everyone else, plus, they are my favorite :P). The others should hopefully be released in an expansion soon after. :)

The AI should be very developed. As the AI is what is actually handling all of a unit's functions and carrying out all the orders etc, it should be suitably up to the task, making 'intelligent' decisions based on it's orders and options. Included should be morale effects, units deciding to turntale and run (at least unless they recover), getting pinned, mobbing up, etc. In addition, the AI Commander(s) should be given decent rules governing their units and the use of both specific units and overall armies so that they actually provide a challenge. Having all of the unit creation, resources etc removed from the battles should also let this be easier to program.

Campaigns should be intriguing and build on one another, your success in one determines the next and so on. There should be one campaign at least from each army, each with 10 battles at a minimum.

Army composition should remain (somewhat) loyal to the table-top game. In other words, any army able to be made in the RTS should be able to be duplicated on the tabletop (with a few exceptions of course, special scenarios, characters, etc.)

No Fog Of War effects. These are, for the most part, silly, and would detract from the tactical play. Certain units, of course, would still have 'stealth' capabilities (lictors, catachan infiltration, etc). Stealthsuits would not 'stealth', but there would be a good chance that they could not be targeted.

Varied battlefields. Everything from flat plains to forests to mountains to snow, maybe even underwater and space (moon or a starbase?) Included, of course, is environmental effects on both movement and weapons, 'night' rules, rain, etc.

Weapons: a lasgun should NOT be able to damage a vehicle. Weapon abilities should remain consistant with the Table-top game, there should be a good reason to outfit that squad with a ML and plasma-gun.

Full 3D camera movement, zoom in out capability. Should be able to zoon in to read the serial number on the IG lasgun, and out to see the clouds (slight exageration, but preferably...). Also, the ability to 'replay' a turn in instant replay mode so that you can zoom in on a part of a battle and observe waht happened. Combined with this is some sort of 'verbose' ability that will say exactly what happened where or with a specific unit.

Multi-player: This is a large subsection..

Should be able to handle everything from single squad size to entire multiple force orgs, superheavies, gigantic creatures and titans. (maybe the superheavies, flyers, titans and gigantic creatues as an expansion)

Play by e-mail should be supported. As it is a turn/RTS, PBEM should be supported, it should be fairly easy to implement and would add something important.

Unit customization. Players should be able to customize their units decals, badges, coloration, camo patterns etc. The support for this should be rather easy, and no tools need to be developed for the actual creation of the custom designs other than the template skin for a unit, and the import ability (as well as sending these things to other players in multi-play).

Both network support as well as tcp/ip (internet) capability for connection (please no Game-Spy or similar, GW has the resources for a very minor connection-finder ability on the website, as does Relic and THQ). A actual system to keep track of games/standings as well as an automatic handicapping would be rather neat, on-line tournament and campaign support would also be a huge added bonus. (the tournaments could even become the way that the on-line part pays for itself,

AI commanders in multiplayer, allow there to be additional AI armies in multi-player games, one per player a-la Total Annihilation, or the host machine controlling them all (1 per player would probably give the best performance as no one machine would be taxed too badly, and the AI could be more complex).

*****

Hmm, I think that about does it. sleek spiffy graphics without question, and the characters will need to be something special as well, obviously.

[Shadione]

Originally posted by Rusian Ninja
Can I ask you a question, Shadione.

You can ask, but at this point I can't answer.



Originally posted by thesamonthemoon
Does this imply the posibility that we will get to see screenshots at some point in the near furure?

Yes, depending on your definition of 'near future'.

[Inquisitor]

Originally posted by Tyryt
NO resource gathering or building of units. In other words, you build your army and then fight it out.

Oh God-Emperor, please no more resource gathering. If I have to harvest another ore/wood/grain/soul/widget my brain will explode.

But, there has to be some method of force building progression without the old and tired RTS formula. It could be that the further you progress in the game--whether by the number of battles you win, allies you gain, worlds you conquer, etc. will open up additional unit types to you. I wouldn't mind that.

[Kained]

Mod tools and Skitarii regiments :dyn:

[Tyryt]

Meh... For the single player campaign that might be okay, but I think starting out with limited "points" an enforcing the force org and objectives would still be better.

[AdrianWerner]

I think Space Marines, Imperial, Eldar, Chaos, Orcs and Tyrianids are the canon of WH40K armies..and they should all be included others would be nice..but those are the most important ones..the rest might be added in expansions.

But I agree..no resource managment....we need something like GroundControl or Blitzkrieg/SuddenStrike :)

[Beelzebuddy]

Okay, as I research background info I find I'm getting more and more excited about this. Here's my massive list of suggestions:
Only nail down 3 or so races, but do it well. Invite modders to flesh out the universe, then polish up their mods and release the new races via expansions ala CounterStrike. Modders responsible get royalties, as if you contracted them to do the work. This would enable relic to concentrate on perfecting one aspect of the universe while giving 40k junkies the chance to contribute to their favorite universe and get paid doing it.

Remain true to the tabletop game in gameplay and balance aspects - this means no resource management. Each game starts with each player receiving a certain number of points and building an army from that, then engaging in combat.

Make the game scalable - do not be afraid to diverge from the game rules in terms of scope. On the tabletop you can manage only so many units. You are free from this limitation on the computer. Starting points in multiplayer games can be set anywhere from the most epic of armies to mere handfuls of troops, with a singleplayer campaign that runs the gamut.

Make it adaptable - avoid hard coding unit behavior in order to give modders as close to complete freedom as possible. If someone wants to make an X-Men mutant vs human mod, they should be able to code in all kinds of nifty abilities, plus the unit AI to use them intelligently. If they want to modify unit AI to auto-target units based on custom parameters, they should be able to.
That's about all I have for now.

[sajuukar]

For graphical stuff (I'm no expert, so I don't know if this is possible) it would be very breakthrough-ish if there were some desert battles where the dust actually flew around and the units left little pockets where the dust was blocked... that would be really cool! I got this idea from that concept art of HW2 I saw, Karos Breeze I think it was, where asteroids had things of dust flying off of them... pure coolness.

[Russian Ninja]

Originally posted by Shadione

You can ask, but at this point I can't answer.

Ok, never mind. Anyway one of the problems I found in Final Liberation was that there was nothing really stopping you from getting an army of Titans, upon which you would be totally invincible. There was nothing a foot-slogging Imperial Guardsman could do against a Titan, which meant that Mr. Warlord would be able to destroy them at his leasure. And there was no reason to get the Lemun Russ tanks once you could get Baneblades and Storm Hammers. So my advice is that you make so that there is still reason to take Lemun Russ Battle Tanks when you could get Storm Hammer Super Heavy Tanks.

Of course all this is assuming that we're opperating on Epic scale here, but if not then similar balancing issues could help to stop units becoming useless and redundant.

[Falcrum]

Actually, i used guardsmen squads to burn away void shields before retaliating with my own super-heavy tanks/titans/big guns. But yeah, balance is a real issue.

[thesamonthemoon]

Although making any sugestions at this point, before we know what relic has, seems silly, I'll make mine anyway:

Sugestion: For the campaign (or perhaps, in adition to the campaign), give the game a "risk" like feel. Sort of like in Rise of Nations. I think that it would be incredibly cool to have fights over entire planets. Perhaps with reinforcements, planetary bombardments etc. :)


Originaly Posted by Shadione

Yes, depending on your definition of 'near future'.

Well, lets say my definition is the same as your definition. What would my definition be in this case? :)

[Homdax]

Hi, Relic.
I wish I was your neighbour!

Suggestions :
- *Early* beta or demo (with HW2 in mind, that might have avoided some stuff others complain about)
- Some have mentioned GC, I agree, look at that.
- Single unit selection.
- Formations

...and since I am not any good at this [either] I´ll stop here.

I must say, I never ever before got myself involved this much with any game developer or game Forum...that must mean something...good...


## Homy

[Paladin1]

Hi guys, first off thanks for making what will be the best Warhammer 40,000 pc game ever.
Please include the best Space Marine Chapter ever, the Blood Angels, it would be great to see them in the game instead of the Ultra Marines (Firewarrior) all the time i've spent about 10 years building the complete Blood Angel Chapter which will be well worth it when i finally paint them all.
Anyhow good luck with the game you are the right guys for the job!

[black dawn]

i have a great idea for how to work this. I know that you guys are already gonna do a great job, but i see some amazing oppertonities you could do. One great would would be as follows:

for anyone who plays spots games (in particular NHL 2004 for the comp) there is a dynasty/franchise mode where you can take a team for 20 years, and upgrade all your facilities, and all your staff to improve your team faster, improve your scouting staff when you win enough games and make enough money... i think this would be a great thing to do for your game. Like manage a campain and fight hundreds of battles with different scnarios and stuff and eventually taking over your whole system, and then branching out to the eye of terror or whatever. Also you should have your scouting staff for the recruits telling you how good they are and what they're poetential is. then with the veterans getting unit upgrades, replcing members and changing weapons varying on the mission. This may seem like a lot to do, and i'm hoping it's not, because i think the game will be plenty more enjoyable if this is in it.

also for anyone who's played kessen... yes i know it's kinda old school... it's a great game where you pick all the commanders and all the units you're gonna use on a specific mission, then you get your battle plan ahead of time to tell all your units what you want them to do. I loved this engine and i think basing it on this a little wouldn't hurt it at all...

sounds like this game will be great, good luck you guys

[asda]

It’s really hard to make suggestions when we barely got the tiniest hint of what is going to be in the game
We don’t even know if there will be harvesting there or not :hmm:

[thesamonthemoon]

black dawn - that sounds similair to what I sugested:


For the campaign (or perhaps, in adition to the campaign), give the game a "risk" like feel. Sort of like in Rise of Nations. I think that it would be incredibly cool to have fights over entire planets. Perhaps with reinforcements, planetary bombardments etc. :)

[AdrianWerner]

I`ve got a suggestion: this time..add difficulty levels :)

[The Collector]

Might be interesting to have "sub-clans" in Multiplayer. For example, in the hypothetical situation that Space Marines are in multiplayer (few games today come without multiplayer), perhaps selecting a particular chapter and getting its disadvantages/advantages? Then a "Generic Chapter" that gets nothing, sort of in the vein of the Empire-Building RTS' that have different civilizations and different unit sets/attributes.

[Russian Ninja]

That sort of thing can apply for other races as well. For example, you could have Guardsmen from different worlds with different abilities. Say, you could have Catachens who are more lightly armoured, but they can plant traps, are better up close than regular Guardsmen and if they're in a jungle, forest or the like, they get lists of bonuses. You can have your regular run-of-the-mill guardsmen with no bonuses or penalties as a base. You could have Cadians who are more expensive individually because they're more L33t, but they're better equiped, shoot better, have more access to elite units, etc. You could do that for almost every single race. It can add more depth to a game.

[ROK]

Hi there all, I'm a new member to this board, and the only reason i joined was the new game coming out. by the way i'm a hardcore wh40k player and i hope this game comes out reallll good.

I have read what everyone has said and yes we do need more information before 'proper' suggestions can be made.

Whether there will be any resource gathering or unit building structures, the Space Marines should be able to choose if they want to be either a vanilla marine army (you know the term?) or a more prestigeous chapter, e.g. blood angels or space wolves.

What i was thinking is if the game has buildings (command centres, barracks, tank factories etc etc.) then from the HQ building the player should decide if he wants to be a vanilla or not, but by choosing to become a more specialised chapter you get quite a lot of restrictions on your army.

So blood angels could be chosen at the start but this means you'll get more close combat orientated troops... or if your dark angels you get more plasma weapons... ofcourse this kind of system would be only used in multiplayer games and it should be applied on every single race in the game.

I have one clear suggestion to make before this post ends; can we set the game to after the horus heresy? not during it... because i actually want to get the newer weapons the Imperialists made after the civil war... multi meltas, razor backs, new predators and rhinos...

been rambling... i apoligise

ROK
Field Engineer, Paratrooper division, ROKA

[Darkness]

Seeing wh40k isnt a resource gathering game, please move the focus on adding as many of the races and sub races you can, you Gotta have chaos spacemarines imperial guard eldar orks tyranids tau and the necrons, when basebuilding aspects and stuff like that is gone then i see no problem having all of the above

and please dont make it epic, large skirmishes is enough, if not then you loose the special feel of each unit :)

[Beelzebuddy]

and please dont make it epic, large skirmishes is enough, if not then you loose the special feel of each unitMake it scalable instead - each player can fine tune the game to his/her optimal experience. If you want epic, set the game to 15,000+ points. If you want a skirmish, 500. Rather than argue about the benefits of epic/regular/skirmish, make the game adaptable enough and you'll find everyone will be pleased.

[The Collector]

It has to be after the Heresy: Unless Abaddon was around that early. Or the guy in their picture isn't Abaddon. Or if the image released is even part of their game and not just a red herring.

"Dawn of War" has to be pretty early. Right after the Heresy? The Heresy itself? "Dawn" is beginning, so beginning of war. Beginning in general? Beginning with any specific side? The Heresy? Possibilities are a bit endless for now, we're biting on invisible bones.

[Tyryt]

I certainly hope is is some time in the 'current' setting of 40K. Putting it during the horus Heresy would pretty much mean SM and Chaos ONLY, and that would pretty much suck.

the chaos guy in the only released image is NOT abbadon, just your random khornate lord.

As for it being the 'dawn' of war, that could mean just about anything.

[dewolfe]

Putting it during the horus Heresy would pretty much mean SM and Chaos ONLY

The recently deceased Eldrad Ulthran (hey, he was kicking around for a couple tens of thousands of years, it’s about time he got a rest) and the Eldar were involved in the Heresy. So if it was based around it you could fit in the Astartes, the Guard, the forces of the Ruinous Powers (both traitor guard and marines), and Eldar. That would be 5 different forces, although the traitors and loyalists mirror each other considerably.

[Stymie_Jackson]

Originally posted by dewolfe
The recently deceased Eldrad Ulthran (hey, he was kicking around for a couple tens of thousands of years, it’s about time he got a rest) and the Eldar were involved in the Heresy. So if it was based around it you could fit in the Astartes, the Guard, the forces of the Ruinous Powers (both traitor guard and marines), and Eldar. That would be 5 different forces, although the traitors and loyalists mirror each other considerably.

And Orcs were known since the dark age of technology...only Tyranid (fun fun fun) and the silly Tau are the new races that were not around during the Horus Heresy.

Read some of the real old fluff...it's in there. Talking rouge trader days. Hell, I even have old plastic space marines (the ones that are about 1/4" smaller than todays and are all squatting like they are taking a crap into their armor) from those versions.

Anyone else here miss Adeptus Titanicus?

[Tyryt]

Actually... Tyranids have been around since RT.

And during the heresy (which didn't even exist until the 90s), the eldar played an EXTREMELY minor role (only got involved in one battle I believe), and the orks didn't do anything.

Tyryt
Let the swarm consume.

[thesamonthemoon]

Tyranids are teh coolest.

I originaly posted this on the "Scope And Scale" thread, but I think it belongs here too:


I'm hoping it's on the same scale as regular 40K though, anything from 100-10,000 pt games, without harvesting.

I think, what would be particularly sweet, would be making the game so far zoomable, that your looking over the shoulder of your space marines, which of course, I'm hoping are as detailed as guys from first person shooters.

Sure, the polycounts would be ridiculous, but everybody is going to buy a new computer when Doom III and Halflife 2 come out. And of course, Relic could use a system similair to HW2, where models have multiple levels of detail based on their distance from the camera.

[Stymie_Jackson]

Hmm...anyone play that Starship Troopers game? That style could be cool with 40K...w/ today's graphic engines that could be wild...highly zoomable engine would make it grand.

[Flame Carrier]

or lets skip wh 40k and make a starship troopers game

[thesamonthemoon]

No.

40K is better.

[Brother Jonah]

How about both? Except the Starship Troopers game has to be based on Heinlein's book and not some Hollywood-social-reconstruction-freak-director's version of it....and the 40K game should have INDIRECT FIRE WEAPONS. Ahem.

[Stymie_Jackson]

The did have a Starship Troopers game, which was a cross between the book and the movie. Your troops started in Combat Gear...aka, worthless body armor like the chumps in the flick (great movie, but was not a good rendition of the novel) and worked they way into the power armor of the book.

It was like Close Combat where you didn't build troops, but selected units from a pool and they carried over from mission to mission. But it sounds like an RTS, so there will be a resource model knowing Relic...sigh.

If they make it more like Total Anhiliation and less like Warcraft it will rock.

[Falcrum]

Actually, there might not be resource management in the game, no and i mean no GW game in the past has ever had anything to do with in-mission resource management. And remember that Ground Control didn't involve resourcing.

[Russian Ninja]

At best, Resourcing will probably get a minor role in this game, as it appears to be more focused on the combat, judging by what little we know. Of course we only do know so much, so at this point we can only speculate.

[Falcrum]

Speculation is one of the purposes of these discussion threads, y'know.

[Russian Ninja]

Originally posted by Falcrum
Speculation is one of the purposes of these discussion threads, y'know.

True enough. That's what we're doing after all.

[Stymie_Jackson]

Originally posted by Rusian Ninja
Of course we only do know so much, so at this point we can only speculate.

Guys, we only know:

There is a game coming out based on Games Workshop.
It's being made by relic.
It's got a pic of a khorne warrior on the cover.

In other words, we don't know anything at this point. They haven't leaked the least bit of useful information. So that's makes just about every post on this board speculation.

Feel free to correct me if we do know some facts, but Relic is being tighter lipped than a Subic Bay fluffer.

[Flame Carrier]

rhey have said a relese date (in other words they piked a random date....)....

[Brother Jonah]

...large maps like Total Annihilation would be great too...that game STILL beats all other RTS games, in my opinion.

[Numenor]

Biggest one to watch is Ground Control on this one. Its probably the closest thing to the new game (if it is to the 40k scale).

I'd rather it was more Epicly scaled though. The 40k universe and backstory has always tried to illustrate how vast the universe and the imperium is and I think without the limits of table top gaming, Relic could really let that concept shine.

Titans would be FINE.

Numenor

[Silmaril]

I'm just wondering why everyone thinks he's a Khorne warrior? I don't see the Khornate symbol on him anywhere, but I'm pretty out of touch there. I just see the generic 8 pointed Chaos star. His colours look more like Tzeentch (sp?) to me.


But anyhow, my suggestion would be to include the four major Chaos powers, and keep their rivavlries. Khorne vs Slaanesh, and Tzeentch vs Nurgle. Just to make battles with them a bit more intersting - they could turn on each other.



And I wanna see a Bloodthirster.

[Russian Ninja]

He's not a Khorne Bezerker, nor is he Horus or Abaddon. He's a Night Lord. Get it right everyone.

Anyway, if the game is played on a size somewhat akin to regular 40K games, Titans, Baneblades, Thunderhawks and other Super Heavies should only make a few guest appearances. Maybe as the objective of the battle,"Destroy the Rampaging Baneblade before it owns your army", or "Protect the Thunderhawk as it drops in to pick up the survivors", plus maybe a few flashy sequenes where you see a Titan take out the legs of another Titan, causing the thing to fall down and crush the opponent's army. Tactics usually get thrown out the window in the face of giant, killy stuff like Super Heavies.

I'm probably wasting my time here with these words, but whatever you do Relic, make sure there's a Multiplayer component to the game. Multiplayer is the core of any real long-term commitment to one game for a player.

[Flame Carrier]

they most have titans

[Darkness]

no they mostent, keep it real, cut down on the super heavies

[Beelzebuddy]

Keep it real? Sure, sure.

It would seem our comminutiy is being divided between "epic" and "original," much as HW2 was divided between "unit caps" and "SUs." Is there anyone else besides me who wants the thing to be scalable, thus making everyone happy?

[Darkness]

that would prolly mean 2 extra years of developement so i do definitley not agree, its 40k not epic thats the big thing out there, so satisfy the masses

[The Collector]

You could just set a poll: "Epic 40k" or "40k"

New poll?

[IWAssassin]

However if I wanted 40k, I would play a game of 40k. I personally dont like the Epic 40,000 Rules at all [and even less so the prototype Epic: Armageddon rules], so wont play it. It would be nice to be able to play Epic sized battles therefore without having to play a 30,000pt Battle that takes 3 weeks.

That said, scaleable of course is the best. Campaign wise let it start with your squad and move on to commanding a full chapter of marines. Skirmish, let you set the limits.

It really doesnt add much development time to allow it to be scaleable like that. Look at Total Annihiliation. Early campaign battles feature less than 20 units. Yet you can play with 5000 if you want.

[thesamonthemoon]

Yes... I think I mentioned on another thread... Thanks to the grand (user-end) simplification provided by computers, you could have "Epic" battles using the standard rules. Think 100,000 point battles.

[Beelzebuddy]

It would be nice to be able to play Epic sized battles therefore without having to play a 30,000pt Battle that takes 3 weeks.Another nice feature of this being a video game is the possibility of unit AI that can make simple decisions for your troops, so you don't have to give specific orders to each and every one of them each and every turn.

Make the AI moddable and you may even be able to play in real time by fine-tuning the AI to fight the way you want it to.

[thesamonthemoon]

I get the picture that the games is going to be in real time... on acount of it being called an RTS (Real Time Strategy for the one person on Relic Forums who doesn't know what it means. You know who you are. ;)).
Excirpted from Relics Press Release

THQ Inc. (NASDAQ: THQI) today announced Warhammer 40,000; Dawn of War, the first real-time strategy title in its agreement with industry-leading PC development studio Relic Entertainment Inc.(Note: I added the bold).

[Beelzebuddy]

Names of game genres should be taken with a grain of salt. For example, only a small fraction of RPG games actually involve any role-playing. But that's neither here nor there.

Assuming the term RTS can be taken literally, I forsee a large number of die-hard 40k fans who will be royally pissed off and will be feel justified flaming these forums without needing to play the game first.

But even if turn-based was supported, they'd just find some other reason. People will be people.

[dewolfe]

Here's an idea. How about for the campaign, you control a force of chaos attacking an Imperial held world (city?). Basically, there's a big campaign map, divided into 'squares'. You start off the campaign by deep striking in via drop-pods, so nothing heavier than a Dreadnought in the first few levels. You can choose to drop onto any square (maybe call it the campaign phase), except for those protected by void shields. Once you decide where to go, it's battle time. One square should be a Landing Field, so that if you gain control of it you can start landing heavier things like Land's Raider or Preds (or traitor guard). There should also be missile silos or lance batteries that have to be silenced quickly or your parent ship (fleet?) will be in a hurt. Anyway, you can attack any square that's beside a square that you have guys in, or move troops from where they are to one of the squares you control. Have an AI who is smart enough to move around his own amount of troops in cunning traps and counterattacks into territory that you own.

As a difficulty level, make the sizes of forces that you have available on your fleet and the forces of the Imperium adjustable (so those who want an easy campaign will put their amount of troops high and the Imperium's low, et visa versa). Make sure that the AI will change its tactics depending on what it has to use, and voila! a pretty fun campaign from my point of view!

[Van]

Greetings.

Having just learned about this game in PC Gamer and being a 2nd edition W40K fan i am really exicted about this game and feel compelled to offer some suggestions of my own.


- Customization is important. Giving us the ability to "skin" our Space Marines with the colors of our favorite chapter and company will go a long ways to giving this the tabletop feel of 40K. Although not as varied as Marines it is important to have some sort of ability to do the same to the other races. The colors of the differing Eldar Craftworlds, Ork Klans and Chaos Marines would be great.

- Multiplayer should be the emphasis. A single splayer campaign would be great but W40K is all about taking your favorite army and trashing your buddies favorite army.

- At the very least, 4 races/armies should be included at release. 6 would be best but 4 would be workable. Imperial and Chaos Marines, Eldar and Orks are the heart of W40K.


- Stay true to the different war machines of W40K. Dreadnaughts should have at least a minimal amount of customization. Same for tanks, etc.


- The various squad types need to be there. Marines with jumppacks, Terminators, Noise Marines, Aspect Warriors, etc. I'm sure that goes without syaing though, now that i already have.

- Special Characters. They add a lot of flavor to W40K. They dont have to be the named ones(but it would awsome to see Abaddon, Ghazkul or Marneus Calgar striding across a battlefield), but having impressive Marine Capts, Imperial Commissars, Chaos Daemons or Psykers of the differing races will give this game a great touch.


- I would like to be able to see a squad of Terminators be able to shred a stopped or disabled vehicle with close combat weapons. I also dont want to see that same vehicle be destroyed by light handled weapons, lasguns, bolters, etc.


- Try to implement as many of the table top rules in the PC game as is possible. Granted many times such rules do not migrate over to a PC game well.


I'm glad a well know and respected dev is making this game. It deserves it.

Good luck Relic, i look forward to giving your product a try.

[Maximus Decimus]

nice suggestions i agree although i believe the game should have a solid and well constructed storyline like starcraft, warcraft, homeworld etc. but good multiplayer with a map editor would be great. I definetly HOPE they DO NOT take the command and conquer approach and have 1 unit kills all approach and the nuclear strike either cause that just makes the game hey who can get a nuke faster!, found that very dull and gay in the command and conquer series. so i dont wanna see for example a land raider crushing everything on the field and it & its counterparts taking 5min to build. tank wars would be nice too so if u do have a land raider u can quickly get counter weights to it. warcraft style heros can be fun BUT i do not want them to be so powerful so they can preform unbelievable things like killing platoons of gaurd cause theyr at level 8 or whatever.

:comment:

[IWAssassin]

I actually have to disagree all over the place there.

Generally speaking DONT implement the tabletop rules into the game. Things like morale are good on the tabletop, bad on a PC. Likewise the allmighty HP system is generally speaking better than the "you either kill it or do absolutely nothing" system from the tabletop game. The former balances easier and makes a lot of logical sense, the latter is easier for people playing on the tabletop with more than 3 models [but a computer doesnt care].

Next allow a vehicle to be destroyed if I fire 500 Lasgun shots into it. Inherent with a HP system. Eventually its going to have so many dings or melted areas it simply doesnt work any more. On the same note Terminators should be able to rip it to shreds, and much faster at that with their Power Fists.

Special Characters, they add some flavor and a lot of unrealism. Sorry special characters are one of the main reasons I DONT like Blizzard Games, as realistically a Special Character isnt going to be better at combat, he's just special in the sense that he IS Colonel Bob. Its his army that earned him his reputation, not so much himself.

I also disagree on making multiplayer the emphasis. It should be an aside. Certainly possible, and balance the units for such, but games are so much better when Single Player is the emphasis and Multiplayer is simply an option. One reason I rate a game like Total Annihiliation below Homeworld is the single player seemed to be a afterthought. Same with something like Q3 compared to HL, where undoubtedly Q3s multiplayer has better aspects to it, but it didnt even bother with a SP.

If you have a good SP, a good MP isnt hard to do. The reverse is not the case.

[Maximus Decimus]

yes i agree with special characters although should be better than the average joe but as i stated before, they should not be able to plow through platoons of ppl like in warcraft. agree with SP emphasis. ok the tank getting killed by lasguns dont think so. if say 20 men were shooting at a M1A3 Abram tank non stop do u know how long it would take to deplete its armor?? id say its not even possible trust me things dont work like that. ud deplete nothing in a month. The abram can withstand more than one shot from a canon round ok its unrealistic to have a bunch of men destroy a tank from pure rifle fire. it isnt possible unless u have anti tank weaponary.

[Van]

Originally posted by IWAssassin

Generally speaking DONT implement the tabletop rules into the game. Things like morale are good on the tabletop, bad on a PC. Likewise the allmighty HP system is generally speaking better than the "you either kill it or do absolutely nothing" system from the tabletop game. The former balances easier and makes a lot of logical sense, the latter is easier for people playing on the tabletop with more than 3 models [but a computer doesnt care].


But morale is vitally important to armies. It is(or at least was in 2nd ed.) a important part of 40K. Removing it would be a mistake, imo.

Granted HP or wounds i could see being easily removed as it isnt as important to the table top to pc transfer.


Next allow a vehicle to be destroyed if I fire 500 Lasgun shots into it.

But unless those hits all strike the same place they will be irrelevant. I see your point though. Pure attrition will disable vehicles.


Special Characters, they add some flavor and a lot of unrealism. Sorry special characters are one of the main reasons I DONT like Blizzard Games, as realistically a Special Character isnt going to be better at combat, he's just special in the sense that he IS Colonel Bob. Its his army that earned him his reputation, not so much himself.


Major disagreement here. I am not a fan of Blizzard games either and havent played but two of them, D2 and WC3. W40K characters are a different beast from Blizzard characters though. They most certainly are better at combat than the average troop. Abaddon is a demigod. Cheif Librarian Tigurious(sp?) of the Ultramarines, Eldar farseers, Inquisators, etc, etc. All bring something to the game. This is W40K, not some general battle sim like a C&C game. They are figures of distinction on a 40K battlefield and lend many things to the game.


I also disagree on making multiplayer the emphasis. It should be an aside.

I may well be mistaken but when i heard about this game i figured it was an attempt to bring table top W40K to the PC. If i am not wrong then multiplayer is the most important part. Its kinda hard to play 40K by yourself. It game is designed to be played against another thinking opponent. Granted i agree that there should be a SP component to this game and being able to have a "quickie" game agains the computer should be standard fare. But, imo, this game needs to be steered towards multiplayer.



Not saying your opinions are wrong, just voicing what i think should be there and what i would like to see in this game.

Cheers.

[Darkness]

multiplayer is the most important aspect, the single player can be as it is in quake3, non existent

and just add a "hitpoint value" for a whole squad, not each member of that squad, and it would be cool to see squads firing at eachother but not isnant hitting, htis glance of armor, hits ground infron etcetc make it so instead, and moral is good, and its quite important in wh40k too

heroes should be really good, as they are in the tabletop
and yes, sometimes that measn tehy plow through ranks of men

[hybris]

I really dont give a *bleep* about special characters and heroes, if they're in, then it's fine by me.
But 40k was never built upon these special characters, and most tournaments bann them, since they are too unbalanced.

However, this is what I'd like to see;

1. An easy point-and-click interface to command your troops, and let them act on their own within certain boundries (semi-AI). I really, really don't want to have to activate all magic and etcetera manually all the time, when its obvious what is needed, as in HW's field-generators and so on.

2. An easy overview, and not too detailed view (as in WarCraft), but instead focusing on the overall battlefield (like the space-key in HW), and a large zoom-out option (like in HW), so I really trust Relic to manage this part really well.

3. Epic as well as gothic landscapes, like raised imperial, gothic cities, as well as open land scape combat on an alien planet.

4. Dark, futuristic and gritty overall "feel", like stained uniforms, lots of smoke, craters, dirt and action a'la the beginning of Saving Private Ryan and so on...

5. As many different units and races as possible, the ability to choose from and design your army based on (hopefully) every unit available from that race's options, as well as sub-options.
Perhaps even with a kind of "evolution", were not all options is available at all times.

...As goes with the single player campaign and the fluff - it really can't go wrong, as long as the previous suggestions are full filled. :)

[Darkness]

special characters include HQ units imho, im not purely talkin bout the super heroes here, special heroes should be toggleable yes

but you make your own heroes as elites and hq and these are important and can do alot

especially my nid warriors and tyrants :P