Using Assault Marines

[HiveMind]

I've been using the old, reliable Tactical mass for a while now, but the hate seems to be running high for that, particularly when I have a Bubbleboy rather than a useless Apothecary or meh Techmarine, so I thought that I might change strategies. I'm wondering if Assault Marines are actually useful. It seems to me that, for 25/0 more, a Tactical squad with a sergeant is much more durable, does more damage at range than the ASM do in melee, and can match the ASM up close anyway. Goomba stomping is good, but I'm not sure if it matches ATSKNF.

So, can an ASM-heavy build work at all? I would of course need Scout support to get enough power, but I'm hoping that 2-3 ASM squads should be able to do something. Would that work?

[xgErlend]

Considering that ATSHNF and your Sergeants are getting the nerf bat next patch. Learn to use ASM's

I currently run an Apoth build with the standard opening being Tach, Node, 3 gen, tier2, RB and then we'll see.
Often do I find myself using ASM's that I buff with stims before jumping them in, and then Heal them with the AOE damage on heal wargear that the Apoth has. Its quite a nasty combo.
Anyway... yes... I have seen some ASM heavy builds work well against non SM. Other SM that tachmass will beat you for the reasons mentioned.

[symmetriical]

ASM suck without Sarges. They're only viable with an Apothecary imo, for the constant healing. Stims are good, but if you want to keep them alive you want the lower cooldown for heal. In team games, if you can afford to keep them out of fighting til you get Sarges, they're fine. Can't stress how careful you have to be when you first build them. Once you reach critical mass with 2 leveled and upgraded ASMs, they're quite a force, but that's hard to achieve.

[xgErlend]

Oh I agree... they are not the be-all end-all melee unit we would all like them to be, but they are still very usefull in the right hands and the right situations.

[FooF]

Just did a lab today because I saw it in the Eldar forum.

Combat Stims increase the damage of Meltas by 75%. Yes. Meltas seem to do about 200-220 damage to a Dread. With Stim, they did 385 (which happens to be 75% more than 220, so there you go). That almost one-shots a Wartrukk. Double Meltas, one with Stim, will take out any Transport and come frustratingly close to taking out a Deff Dred.

I just found that interesting. If you have the Sgts, and a Apoth w/Axe, you should be able to take out an unsupported Walker with ease with 2 ASM squads and timing the Meltas to keep the Walker from fighting back. (Not to mention the Stim will cause the ASM squad to do 75% more damage and hopefully bring the vehicle down that much faster).

Anyway, carry on.

[Buguba]

So, can an ASM-heavy build work at all? I would of course need Scout support to get enough power, but I'm hoping that 2-3 ASM squads should be able to do something. Would that work?

Check out this strat page on gamereplays. Mind you, all for the Apothecary, but it's only because ASMs are best with Apoth + stims.

ASM heavy buils (http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/portals.php?show=page&name=dawn-of-war-2-space-marine-apothecary-guide)

It's all focused on ASMs in T1 and leading you into T2. At some point, however, as the article describes, you will eventually need to purchase some Tacs. ASMs simply don't have the durability and flexibility that Tacs have, so it's difficult to rely too much on them.


ASM suck without Sarges. They're only viable with an Apothecary imo, for the constant healing.

I dunno, I think ASMs are actually pretty godly. They're only not worth it against Nids and Tac spammers (3v3). This is because Adrenal Gland warriors and Tacs w/ Sarg + ATSKnF annihilate ASMs even after being jumped on.

That's why it's so awesome to spam tacs in 3v3. If any heavy melee units come on to you, you just pop ATSKnF when they get too close, and laugh as your Tacs rip them to shreds. They'll even beat Adrenal Gland Warriors.

[FooF]

ASM-heavy builds are vulnerable to a lot of Vehicles, even with the Melta tip I mentioned earlier.

Meltas have a 40 second recharge that can feel like an eternity against an early Walker.

Interestingly enough, ASM have major problems with garrisoned infantry because even if they have the stun bombs for stuff in buildings, they have no way of actually getting them out of the building. Their ranged damage is worthless.

I've gone as high as 3x ASM, just to see if it is viable, and it can be effective but you have to be very careful about letting ASM run after retreating units into HQ areas and such. They also fall to mass "Plasma" (Plasma Tacs, Venom Cannons, etc.) pretty quickly. Double Plasma Tacs will knock out 2 out of 4 ASM in a squad before the ASM even land on them.

With the Apoth and AoA (Advanced Healing), ASM can hang on against about anything. Of course Nobs and Assault Termies are going to have their way with them but they also cost significantly more. Hopefully your ASM are level 3-4 by then and can hit harder, take more damage and have more energy to double-jump...

...and that's the key: leveling up and getting more energy for energy-starved ASM that want to Jump around everywhere and Melta any vehicles (and disrupt with the Sgt ability).

[ZeroNiner09]

They are pretty nifty if you want to stop that walker chasing your missile tacs right now. It pays of to have a squad when you have the apoth as commander. But you really have to babysit them like hell, because they'll chase anything back to the guns of the enemy HQ...

[BombrMan]

I only ever use them once I have AoA for my apothecary, but once I have that they just rove around with him and the 5 of them are pretty hard to kill and can usually take out way more than their own number.

[xgErlend]

I have started incorporating ASM's into my build in tier1 and I can say that its a lot of fun in the mid20 to mid30 TS bracket. Takes a lot more attention and micro, and a lot more use of hotkeys, but when used correctly... junk just falls over dead.

Lost one to a textbook tach spammer, but that was because my initial ASM squad quit following orders and simply chased a retreating squad into his base. 550req and 25power down in tier1 is a non-comeback against a tach spamming bubblehammer. Its ok... I tore him appart the next time we faced off.

Thanks to the early damage from a, what seems to be an unexpected unit, their tier2 vehicles are late enough that you can normally get a ML Tach squad out in order to assist the ASM meltas in taking down that early vehicle.

Starting to really love an ASM build together with Apoth. Just micro away from that blue circle when fighting 1.1.3 SM tach squads.