Blood Raven Story ... [Archive]

KOKO

7th Apr 09, 8:42 AM

I do not known if this should go to General Forum, but i cant find there nothing like this. As this is for singleplayer ,i want to start the thread here. If it is false-move or delete it. :spartaaa:

So,I am a singleplayer ...played all Dow sequels (campaigns). Came in the story by no knowlegde about GW/Warhammer40k and so i follow the story between the campaigns.
Meet new Members of the Blood Ravens and been interested what happens to this chapter.
At Kronus i play all 7 races with 7 different endings. (Makes sense to me. a campaign for every bodys pleasure)
Same as SoulStorm.
Now i here Cyrus saying , he want talk about....? :nervous: What happend ? Did i misunderstood something ? Even are there has to be several endings, depending of which race i play, THIS IS A BLOOD RAVEN STORY.
Could it be that the BR only a PR gag ? A relic "duck" to get a affination by players ? Or did this chapter going to be serious in WH40K ? Should i indentificated myself or leave this "unknown" ? :eek: If i want a MP game, i dont care about a story, but then i didnt buy this game.
Maybe its only me who get concernd, but i play a lot other stuff like WoW or WC1-3,Starcraft and always get a story,i can follow and given me a feeling for the circumstances.
Should i do waiting 4 or 5 years to get moore information ?
What do you believe ? :coffee:

Gorb

7th Apr 09, 9:14 AM

Erm, what are you on about exactly? Even though Dark Crusade and Soulstorm have multiple playable endings, only one ending is considered "canon" for each game. Thanks to Dawn of War 2, we know the Space Marines won Dark Crusade, however we don't know who won Soulstorm. All we know is that the Space Marines, led by Captain Indrick Boreale, lost horribly and Boreale was killed.

Kronoch

7th Apr 09, 9:41 AM

The Blood Ravens are a recognised chapter in the 40k universe by Games Workshop. And seeing as the Blood Ravens are Relics chapter, all the Games will be about the Blood Ravens (barring WA of course).

I'm just glad DoW II has a good storyline, especially when compared to all the previous games. IMO, Dark Crusade and Soulstorm dind't have a storyline.

KOKO

7th Apr 09, 10:11 AM

My english isnt well, so i try to say things in simple ways.
"we know" isnt what i saw. I heard it....So why not a sequel with that ?

I understood that relic implemented the BR as a part of their agreement with GW and decided to go with a unknown Primarch. as it is discripted in the lexacanium.
I´m not foolish enough to understood how a vehicel to move, but i wont moore storyline.Seems between the sequels nobody cares about the hole story.There are moore questions then aswers in it.Is it a piity that only me is interesting in that ? Is it the usual way to consum things and have no doubt ?Maybe i should go to the bartender a have a drink or moore.^^
Isnt that importent,but tends me to ask ! If there IS a story,then it has a good one to be.If its always a new one i´m not interested anymoore in this game. Then it´s only a cash maker. I hope you understood my point.
If not, feel free to be a part of the global effect.
And thx for responding.

EDIT :I get a save game on SS,give me 3 hours and i watch everything about the end of the BR victory or defeat.

Cronicler

7th Apr 09, 1:06 PM

KOKO: As I understand it, Either IG or more probably the Sisters were victorious in cleansing the place or Necrons just killed everyone. The forces under B. tangled with other imperial factions as well as assaulting the xenos and were probably beaten to a bloody pulp.

The SS Campaign was poorly constructed with inconsistent details like why Eldar or Dark Eldar would occupy a planet, chaos forces have to be idiots etc. If they had split the campaign into major and minor campaigns (Major: IG, Tau, Orcs and Chaos trying to take over the planet as usual. Minor: BRs trying to cover up their relic sites, Dark Eldar Raiding the whole place, Eldar trying to protect the webway portal, Necrons.... Killing the whole place...) then it would or could have made sense. As it stands now SS storyline just consists of BR under Boreale went there, acted ımreasionably, irrationsly. And had the stuffing kicked out of them. No other concrete evidence exists about what happened to Kronus afterwards.

KOKO

9th Apr 09, 9:58 AM

Thx to your 3 for responding. I´m grateful you put your points of view in.
As i remind myself, i ask someone if he take this Game as serious.
Seems i do it in the story.

EDIT: After wins the campaign,there is saying :( my words.bcs i get a german version) that under the good captain boreale and the 9th company only the SM can survive in this battle at Kauravale.
They build a new Monastery called Borealum.Meantimes new IG troops came in the sys to defend. AS send Priest and Scriptors to them to denied Heresy.
The finest Hour of the SM is the victory above the Chaos.
(If you wish i can link pics,but them are in german.)
Thats all.

As there are 9 "final" i have to watch the 3 human races - that takes more time.
Then i ´ll get the facts and compair it with each other.

Kronoch

9th Apr 09, 1:13 PM

The Blood Ravens lose, and Boreale dies. As Cyrus puts it so aptly, Boreale was a fool. The dialoge in Soulstorm must give you an idea that Boreale wasnt the brightest kid in class. How he ever became a force commander is beyond me. Anyway, the loss on kaurava cost the chapter a lot of good battle brothers, putting the existence of the entire chapter in danger. That's why it's so important to protect the worlds in Dawn of War II, as they are the Blood Ravens' recruiting worlds. The loss of exclusive recruiting worlds is a terrible blow for any chapter, and the Blood Ravens stood to lose all their recruiting worlds.

Essentially, the Dawn of War storyline is something like this (in the games, that is). Commander Angelos defeats the Orks and Chaos Space Marines on Tartarus, with the help of Farseer Macha and the Biel-Tan Eldar. On Lorn V, the Eldar prove to be victorious, as Taldeer dies in alle the other endings, but she still lives in Dark Crusade. Gorgutz is beaten, but survives, and manages to take lord Krull's skull back home as a souvenir. The Imperial commander also dies, due to the Eldar manipulations and betrayal.

On Kronus, Captain Thule proves to be the victor. In the process, he personally kills the Necron Lord, and defeats the Imperial Guard at Victory Bay. Farseer Taldeer from Ulthwe dies on Kronus, no doubt about it. The only ending in which she would live was the Imperial Guard one, and that one is impossible due to the Blood Ravens kicking their ass. We know nothing else about that campaing, except that Tarkus and Avitus fought alongside Thule.

In Soulstorm, the Blood ravens get their can kicked so badly that their chapter becomes an endangered species. Okay, that's a bit over the top, but they fought with three (or was it five) full companies and still lost. They would have suffered enormous losses. We don't know anything about who beat who, we only know Cyrus was there, and Boreale died.

Oh, and it looks to me like Angelos has been made Chapter Master. Yay Angelos.

Looks like a serious game to me. The only thing you SHOULDNT take seriously are the multiple endings in Soulstorm and Dark Crusade.

Pyro Paul

9th Apr 09, 2:19 PM

only a single ending is considered from the game 'Dark Crusade' and 'Soul Storm' in subsquent games.

which ending is considered 'canon' is only determained by the developer.

in Dark Crusade, the canon ending is the space marines winning. in the Soul Storm game, it is implied that the Imperium lost, which means neither the Sisters of Battle, Imperial guard, nor Space Marines won. some other faction won the soul storm campaign which is just left as 'unknown' at the moment.

the lines provided by the units in dawn of war 2 simply reinforce what happened in previous games.

Gorb

9th Apr 09, 4:44 PM

Oh, and it looks to me like Angelos has been made Chapter Master. Yay AngelosGabriel Angelos isn't Chapter Master, at least, not yet. I couldn't find any reference to him being named as the Chapter Master. He is named as one of the greatest heroes of the Blood Ravens, but not as their Chapter Master.

The Blood Ravens lose, and Boreale dies. As Cyrus puts it so aptly, Boreale was a fool. The dialoge in Soulstorm must give you an idea that Boreale wasnt the brightest kid in class.The dialogue in Soulstorm didn't imply Boreale was stupid or incapable at all. Some of the wargear alludes to him being an excellent Scout and an excellent squad sergeant. All we know is that the Soulstorm was a terrible campaign, a huge waste of resources, and that Boreale was killed. Nothing more.

KOKO

9th Apr 09, 4:59 PM

hm...
As i buy DoW everything was new to me. So there was no doubt by the story.
In WA the IG was in the middle,but need the help of the Eldar.
DC or Kronus came in with Necros and Tau - BR get their GreyKnights.
SS is a AS story in my eyes.
So i follow KRONOCH´s points. (But the BR have no ChapterMaster-they are lead by a council of Captains) http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blood_Ravens
Pyro Paul says what it is : a developer story. Which means any thing is possible, special when the agrement with GW came to an end.

Kronoch

10th Apr 09, 4:31 AM

Right, I misunderstood the references to chapter command, and then getting a message from Angelos. So I assumed he'd become chapter master. My bad.

Pyro Paul

10th Apr 09, 7:20 AM

The dialogue in Soulstorm didn't imply Boreale was stupid or incapable at all. Some of the wargear alludes to him being an excellent Scout and an excellent squad sergeant. All we know is that the Soulstorm was a terrible campaign, a huge waste of resources, and that Boreale was killed. Nothing more.

Boreale was a more wasteful commander, instead of focusing on keeping his specific troops alive like Thule or Angolos did in their campaigns, Boreale adopted tactics like the 'Iron Rain' which while does have its functionality for quick responce, it leaves the dropped forces some what detached and cut off.

he seemed more driven to attain 'honor and glory' rather than achieve victory which is why Cyrus called him a fool. sure he could of been a great soldier and commander, but his drive for personal recognition was his downfall.

of course, with the way he kept saying 'Spezz Marehns!' does make you wonder if he was an idiot...

KOKO

10th Apr 09, 8:47 AM

Gorb

10th Apr 09, 10:23 AM

Pyro Paul, good points. I'm not saying he wasn't flawed, but he appears to have achieved notable success before becoming Captain of his Company. I can't wait for more information to be revealed, personally ;)

(But the BR have no ChapterMaster-they are lead by a council of Captains) http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blood_RavensErm, Blood Ravens are lead by a Chapter Master. The current (unnamed) Chapter Master is mentioned in the DoW 2 campaign, and the legendary Chief Libarian Azariah Vidya was also Chapter Master of the Blood Ravens. Even that Lexicanum link you posted makes no mention of a "council of Captains".

Or am I missing something here?

Cpt.Tycho

10th Apr 09, 11:04 AM

ehm Gorb it's in the basic data about the chapter ;)
BR are headed by chapter master, i think it was written index astartes...

Agoniser

10th Apr 09, 1:55 PM

Boreale was a more wasteful commander, instead of focusing on keeping his specific troops alive like Thule or Angolos did in their campaigns
From his reactions to certain events throughout the campaign, I felt that Boreale did genuinely care about the battle brothers under his command. Moreso than Thule, whom I distinctly remember branding O'Kais weak for being troubled by his soldiers' deaths, as well as repeatedly stating that they'd fight to the last man (prompting a rather amusing reply from Gorgutz).

Besides, you can't honestly say that Thule's methods were any less wasteful. Making Marines stand around in the open in groups as small as two; attacks that consisted of nothing more than sending troops from a poorly defended forward base to the opposite end of the map on foot (transports are for cowards and fools!); setting up an Orbital Relay in a remote area dangerously close to an ideal staging point for an enemy assault, thus necessitating the allocation of additional manpower to protect it (and of course, Land Speeders make for great defensive platforms).

Back to Boreale, I'd also have to disagree with the view that he's self-obsessed. The only time he's described as specifically seeking glory is during the attack on the Alpha Legion's fortress in Iseult, and even in that case it's not for himself, but for his men; the post-battle victory narration says he strove to perfect his battlefield tactics "so he could grant them the victory and glory which was, he felt, their due." Likewise, he quite clearly shows a focus on actually winning; for instance, his remark in the Ork stronghold that the enemy Squiggoths are slowing their progress, or a (cut, I'll admit) line from the Necron stronghold in which he advises his men to stay away from the centre or risk losing the battle. Even in the horribly written first half of his stronghold speech - "But we shall not die. No, it is the enemy who will taste death and defeat!" - it's apparent that he's already assured of his men's victory.

In fact, that was probably his fatal flaw; he believed in his men a little too much. Time and time again, his unwavering conviction in their superiority is brought up, yet it is also this attitude that leads to his defeat. Or at least it is if the Necrons are the ones who beat him.

To be honest, I'm kind of doubtful that we'll ever find out who really won the Kaurava Conflict, since Relic seems keen to draw a line under the events of Soulstorm, both in-universe and out. :-\

Jonny

13th Apr 09, 8:50 AM

For me, Boreale was a tragedy character. After Cyrus is telling me something about waht happens, i´m irritated. So the BR seems to struggle. That make sense to the new youngest comander ever. But he get no name,it´s a avatar . So i can suggest that the next sequel will do the same. That means, only Tarkus and Davitus are veterans.(Angelos by side). Thaddeus is young too.As i managed to win the campaing and save the future of this chapter......seems it is the Never Ending Story.
(But then it isnt epic)
I wonder what will happen since the game mentiod that after kill the Eldar Avatar "this will bring more trouble to the chapter" .And i didnt find anything about this.
This Story over the years seems to me random.

The commander in Dow2 is named Aramus and he's a Sergeant in the Fifth Company.

The rank and file Blood Ravens don't know who their Chapter Master is. The Chapter is led by the Secret Masters, a group of the highest ranking Librarians and Company commanders, and only they know which of them is the Chapter Master.

If you're interested in the Blood Ravens themselves I'd highly recommend the novels. The first three by Goto were a bit iffy, but the DoW2 novelisation is surprisingly well done and the story it tells is far superior to the one we see in the game. The BR do seem to get beasted with their recruiting worlds though, as they lose Calderis to the Orks and Typhon to the Tyranids. As far as I know Black Library novels are considered canon when they conflict with the games, so the interactions with the Eldar in Dow2 never actually happened.

*edit*

Posted this just now before I saw the thread. Describes what happens in the novel:

The Dow2 novel was much better than the game, storywise.
None of this planet hopping shit. They get booted off Calderis by the Orks who've been stirred up by a visiting Warboss looking to recruit more Boyz. Not a damn Eldar in sight. Thule gets done over by a Tyranid spore being shipped to Governer Vandis (he's a Xeno artifact collector) from Typhon when it's crate is busted during the invasion and it hatches into a Warrior.

The marines go to Typhon for a venom sample to cure him and only just manage to get it before being booted off there as it's in the last stages of Tyranoforming.

Then they end up on Meridian fighting against the Tyrannic invasion. Marines dropping left right and centre they keep firing the buildings and falling back to delay the swarm until Gabriel arrives and they're literally down to their last few men on their last barricade before the Litany of Fury arrives.

Tarkus also dies in a pointless boarding torpedo attack on the Hive ship.

All in all much more realistic, much more drama, plenty of last minute panic against an unstoppable horde and much better characterisation than in the game. And no goddamn Eldar with their cunning "We'll stop the hive fleet by buggering your defences and making you easy prey" plan. Seriously, what was their Farseer smoking when she came up with that one?

KOKO

13th Apr 09, 3:10 PM

Hm...if the novel sounds that,then why make it relic ingame so flat ?
As normal developer makes a game after a novel, in this case it seems they do both at the same time and didnt complain .
Then i have to say : shame above relic manager. A huge game with a small background dosnt go high.

I´m interested in the part who writes the novel and what limits he gets. Is it free to the writer or relic/GW set the rules for the novel ? Does it have to compaire ? Or are they 2 different selling objects of one source ?
Anyway, thx Jonny for the (new to me) points you bringing in.

Kane935

13th Apr 09, 3:21 PM

As far as I know Black Library novels are considered canon when they conflict with the games, so the interactions with the Eldar in Dow2 never actually happened.

Both the games and the books are canon. DOW2's events in the game occured. The games events should take priority since it was Relic who made the game and it was them who released the game. The book has to many contradictory points to the game. For instance all the squads under your command are from the fourth company (bar Cyrus, whos from ninth compnay), and you (the commander) are the commander of the fourth company.

Jonny

13th Apr 09, 3:38 PM

The game writers don't really give much of a toss about story beyond the basics. I mean, a few understrength squads defending three whole worlds against an Ork uprising an Eldar strikeforce and a Hive fleet? The story is just there to explain why you can fight on different maps against different foes.

In a novel the story has to make sense, it has to be better fleshed out than the games because that's all it's got. That's why the novel is canon and the game isn't when they directly conflict, and the story in the novel is far superior to the game's both in adhering to fluff and in sheer common sense. They lose Calderis because a few marines on a recruiting run can't defeat an entire Ork horde. They lose Typhon because a few marines can't reverse the end stage Tyranoforming of an entire world. They very nearly lose Meridian as well, because a few marines can't save an entire world, but they managed to hold on just long enough for reinforcements to arrive. And it was skin of the teeth last minute as well, with only a handful left alive being surrounded when the Litany of Fury's drop pods began landing.

There's a reason they're all fifth company as well. Until The Fated expunges whatever shame they commited in M38 they're always considered to get the shit end of the stick in any situation, and you can't really get worse than a Hive Fleet.

DeusImperator

19th Apr 09, 6:41 AM

The book's story is actually worse than the game's one.

I mean the characters are better portrayed in the game, the game has more plotline...
In the book there are no eldar, no Angel Forge, no bio-toxin... no story at all.
Just a few Blood Ravens wandering around without much aim at all. While in the game, they have a plan and they do everything they can to implement it.

Also don't get me started about the technical errors.

Krak grenades, the ONLY THING that can damage a Carnifex.
A Thunderhawks TURBOLASER doesn't do significant damage to the Carnifex, only krak grenades can do that. The writer should know what a Turbolaser is right? Something that can damage TITANS!
And why krak grenades anyway? Why not melta bombs then?

Avitus's Devastators have meltaguns, plasmaguns and a heavy bolter that fires hellfire shells. Now it is clearly written in the 5th Edition Space Marines Codex that Heavy bolter hellfire shells are meant TO KILL CARNIFEXES! With one shot.
But Avitus's hellfire shells seem to do very little damage(A gaunt takes more than one shot), and no damage to the carnifex at all. Who cares for the codex?
And why does the Devastators have plasma guns and meltas ? Were this meant to be multi meltas and plasma cannons?
Well Tarkus is not even a sergeant, and certainly does not have terminator honours. And in the book Tarkus tries to kill a Norn Queen with a sucidide attack using... guess what. A krak grenade, what else could it be?
I don't know why Space marines use anything else than Krak grenades. Even in the TT game there are plenty more powerful weapons than krak grenades...

There is also no mention in the book about recruiting worlds. The Ravens just not seem to care at all for the planets in question. Avitus's homeworld is Typhon, so at least he should care...

So Jonny knows nothing about W40k background apparently.
But this book is at least better than the ones did by GOTO.

In the game, the Blood Ravens are doing their best to save their worlds and stave off extinction. In the book...

Demonhorde

19th Apr 09, 9:47 AM

Chris Roberson suck even more then Ian Watson and Ben counter. Some of them can write ok read "ben counter" but fluff wise they don't seem to care about inconsistencys with codexs or common fluff. Instead they make up own stuff that is against everything GW has established after 25+ years.

Ben is uber fail when it comes to how demons work in the material plane. For him it's like woopsi here comes the big mega large uber deamon from nowere...

Ian Watson and his lunatic book series that break almost every established fluff on the market.

And now this guy, that don't know jack shit about the fluff, he just tosses in some words and tada... I cried when he started to talk about wepon load outs. It's like did you even read something remotly from the codex. How hard can it be!!!

GW is so so so protective about their IP, but they really should get some better guys that clears authors before printing. Maybe if someone could actually READ the book before relese and know its utter crap they re:write it. But no another book for the 40k nerds no reason to have any conistency...

BL sucks...

Only authors i find good is dan abnett and Sandy mitchell. I really looking forward to the rest of the Scourge the Heretic series.

Jonny

19th Apr 09, 12:00 PM

Maybe they don't use melta bombs because.... ooh! THEY DON'T HAVE ANY. Krak grenades are anti-armour are they not? Carnifexes count as heavy armour. And exactly how tense would the appearance of a Carnifex be if Avitus could kill it in one shot? "Oh Shit! Run! It's a damn Carnifex! It'll kill us al... Oh no, wait a minute. Yeah Avitus has just killed it with one shot. Apparently he was taking a leak and only just got to us."

As for waffling about weapons, have you actually read and comprehended the story? They were on their way back from a mission against Tyranids in which most of them died. Is it possible that they're under-equipped? They're also desperate to save the recruits they gather from Calderis and Typhon but also recognise that there is absolutely nothing they can do to save either world. So, being Space Marines they accept it and move on.

The games story was ridiculous. A few squads of Marines and some PDF fighting off a Hive Fleet over three seperate systems at once? A rehash of the ending to Warriors of Ultramar? At least the novel made sense, when faced with overwhelming odds you decide what you can save and dig in for reinforcements. Making some small measure of sense is more important in a novel than following the game or satisfying anal retentives that the Space Marines are codex equipped. I've been a fan of Warhammer for years but I've never once given a fuck whether the characters in a novel are outfitted in the proper codex approved fashion.

And as for Ian Watson, he wrote the start of Warhammer fluff. Space Marine came out in the eighties for christs sake and you expect it to still abide by the massively changed fluff after 20 years of constant revision?

*edit*

Just to re-iterate. Dawn of War 2 is a good novel. It has a believable story and good characters. Furthermore it's obviously written by somebody who, like me, doesn't give a damn about slavishly sticking to TT codex rules which are nearly irrelevant in a fluff novel. Which is a good thing. If, however you are the kind of person who watches Star Trek and then writes angrily on forums that the Enterprise was clearly doing warp 9.534 when it's stated maximum speed is warp 9.324 and therefore the whole episode is shit and the writer should be fired, then go ahead and bitch about it.

Demonhorde

19th Apr 09, 1:24 PM

Jonny: people like you make me cry, I been playing since rogue trader days and even though there has been revisions the main storyline is still not hard to understand. Ian is just bad, it's that simple, he doesn't put things in context like authors like abnett or sandy do. The give date, stay true to how wepons work and have a belivable characters. Ian's triology is one of the worst book series I read from BL, and that's saying something since I read alot of books. And gone threw all the major writers for BL. You might not mind fluff inconsistency if you like the story, but for me the whole thing about BL is to immersion of fluff, and when the fluff of the book goes against every other piece of material thats out there then maybe it's just you know bad??

I bet you are a fan of ben counters grey knights series... jesus don't get me started on that. Ben and this new guy should get kicked from BL. They done enuff dmg. Keep good writers that actually you know can TELL a story that actually builds on established material without making shit up. And when the ydo make things up it feels consistent and plausible.

But jippie for the new authors next thing we know we got thouse instantly spawned space ship ripping daemons coming for a visit. And Daemons tha tstick around in the material vers for oooh a couple of hundred of years without no problem... jesh BL really needs to get a stricked code of conduct for its authors so they don't totally run overboard.

Kane935

19th Apr 09, 2:59 PM

That's why the novel is canon and the game isn't when they directly conflict, and the story in the novel is far superior to the game's both in adhering to fluff and in sheer common sense.

Just because the novel in your opinion is better doesn't mean its canon. Anyway, it was relic who conceptualized the game and the ideas behind DoW2 so the game should take priority since they made it, but that's my opinion.

Jonny

19th Apr 09, 4:10 PM

Just because the novel in your opinion is better doesn't mean its canon. Anyway, it was relic who conceptualized the game and the ideas behind DoW2 so the game should take priority since they made it, but that's my opinion.

I didn't say that because I preferred the novel, I said it because it's published by Games Workshops publishing arm. That logically makes it's story official when it conflicts against that of a third party product.

*edit* Yeah, re-reading my earlier post I realise I didn't say that at all. Sorry about that, but take the above as my opinion on the matter. Hey I work long hours doing nothing, it rots the brain. :crazy:

Jonny: people like you make me cry

Why? It's just fiction built up around a game, and often highly derivative fiction at that. I love Warhammer but I in no way get worked up if one of their authors tramples fluff a bit, it's just not worth getting excited about.

I don't like the Grey Knights books to be honest. I read the first one and lost interest halfway through the second. I didn't really like Alaric or develop any interest in his story.

badger2d

4th May 09, 11:44 AM

To be honest, I'm kind of doubtful that we'll ever find out who really won the Kaurava Conflict, since Relic seems keen to draw a line under the events of Soulstorm, both in-universe and out.

I like the part in DoW 2's dialogue where somebody is asking Cyrus about what happened at Kaurava, and he says "The Kaurava campaign was a mistake. I will not speak of it again."

I took that line as Relic's apology for the clumsy design of Soulstorm SP, and an acknowledgment that they're sweeping it under the rug.

Taveras

4th May 09, 3:24 PM

So Chris Roberson has an addiction to Krak.... grenades that is...

Big deal. Worse crimes to fluff have been committed because I truly believe that most 40k fiction writers were never table top enthusiasts. And that's fine as long as they can write an engaging story. Even among fluff experts, the technical aspects of a piece of equipment can lead to heated arguments.

noobi666

7th May 09, 9:33 AM

Relic mentions that the Imperial Guard won Soulstorm because in Dawn of War 2 it is mentioned that the Space Marines have to start defending their recruiting worlds. Cyrus, Avitus and Tarkus (Your Sergeants in Dawn of War 2) mentioned Kaurava 2 as "a grave mistake" after losing half their chapter to the conflict due to poor defensive measures in the Lands of Solitude and Indrick Boreale is mentioned in past tense. Cyrus also specifically mentions the Imperial Guard victory on Kaurava in Dawn of War 2.

Kane935

7th May 09, 12:35 PM

Cyrus also specifically mentions the Imperial Guard victory on Kaurava in Dawn of War 2.

He never mentions the IG. He only says that the Blood Ravens lost Kaurava.

Sabulum

7th May 09, 12:41 PM

Not sure what your beef with Ben Counter is Demonhorde. He writes convincingly, and his series on the Soul Drinkers are probably some of my favorite W40K books about the Space Marines.

Honestly, DoW2s story is lacking. It's a little far-fetched even for a fictional game, and there needed to more plot development besides the occasional little quips you get in between missions. Bring back Gabriel Angelo's "blogging" in between missions and the same sort of linear, story-oriented single player. I like the wargear choices and character advancement, but not at the cost of a serious plot.

Hirmetrium

8th May 09, 5:08 AM

The only canon novel appears to be the first DOW one by Goto, and a lot of the characters are CONSTANTLY referred to through wargear in DOW2. It's a really nice nod to consistency, and to keep it that way they completely ignored the following two novels by Goto. I haven't read the DOW2 novel yet, so I have no comment on it.
And sure, Ben Counter isn't Dan Abbnett or Graham McNeil but it doesn't make him a bad writer.

DOW2's story is pretty good IMO. It ties a lot of confused previous points together, and deals with them, as well as introducing highly interesting new characters with their own backgrounds and history. Theres a huge amount of potential in DOW2's SM characters, but it meant that every other race lost out on recognisable folks. I really wanted to see the return of Gorgutz and Taldeer, whom always seem to make impossible escapes, and their such strong characters both having had a campaign focused upon them twice that the story around them could of been grown more.

Its unsurprising that Relic disregard soulstorm - they didn't have anywhere near the level of involvement of the previous DOW games or influence on the story. However, Soulstorm is an important loss because it just makes the campaign of DOW2 more epic - the blood ravens are losing. They have far, far less manpower, and keeping their recruiting worlds is important for their individuality, especially when they have no homeworld to settle on, and they have already lost one of them (Cyrene, see DOW1 and DOW2 campaign opening). Subsector Aurelia is obviously a key area of interest. The entire situation just makes the fight more desperate, and the surviving heroes more heroic.

Blood Ravens have an exceptionally well developed story, and the fact that GW give Relic such creative license means we get some brilliant fluff in the process.