[1.2.1]Techmarine vs the No1 Ork & Eldar players

[Deionarra]

Here's two replays; one against the top Ork, Marioroad no3 on the leader board and one against the top Eldar*, Umpire1 no15 on the leader board.

The game against the Orks was pretty painful to play and while marioroad is certainly a great player and I made a number of mistakes, I still feel like I would rather face a Ravener player than a Mekboy in a 1v1. Map control is just about as hard, gen harassment from stick bombers is ever worse and the Mek teleporting on top of squads and throwing mines is about as bad a warriors poping up from tunnels.

The game against the Eldar was a much better one but again I made mistakes, the biggest being wasting my ASM capping while my gens were being destroyed. It was refreshing to play a game for once where I could honestly feel as though the better player won in the end. He made good use of mind war, something I don't see that much.

I've lost a tonne of places on the ladder so far from playing as the TM (still haven't actually lost with any other commander or race, though haven't played that many games tbh). However, I think from watching these two games, and the other one I posted recently, I've got a better idea of how to adjust my strategy. So I'll try and stick with the Techmarine, for now anyway.

It's usually more educational to learn from you own defeats but maybe these will be of interest to some people as they are both about 20min games against the top players.

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Also, here's a replay of a game that was most likely played right in between these two between Umpire1 and Marioroad. It happens to be on the same map and positions that I played against the orks. The outcome is pretty similar as well.
http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/replays.php?game=47&tab=upcoming&show=details&id=78121

*There are two Eldar players at the very top of the ladder but at least one is a self confessed cheat and I've never seen a replay of the other.

[Logic_Bomb]

Hi Deionarra,
I watched the one vs.Marioroad - the Deff Dread's appearance screwed you up bigtime - did the meltas fail or did you not have them yet? Faster melta+ML on your tacs plus being set to face the dread at max range rather than caught with your pants down capping might have made things closer. Plus, it's interesting in the opening moves if things had gone slightly different how that would have changed the whole game - first engagement you had scouts and marines and TM vs. his mekboy up top - you retreated the scouts (they had all three guys still even though down to 250 health) while his mekboy was down to 85 health or so - if you hadn't retreated the scouts but had used all your units to focus him down you could have killed him possibly or at least been able to keep your scouts capping while he retreated and free up your tacs to harrass rather than go capping like they did - hindsight's 20/20 I know but that was an early turning point I think. Later vs. the Looted Tank your missile tacs were still firing against his gens and didn't get a shot off even vs the tank before the building collapsed - have to say he (ab)uses mines like a pro though! I think he kept you divided, starved for power, and always reacting to his moves rather than vice versa - good learning game though no doubt!
I'll watch the one vs. eldar later...

Vs. Umpire - this was a better and closer game I think - speaking of key turning points - he had his shuriken cannon take down all three gens near your base while your assault marines were capping the furthest victory point? IMO assault marines should never be capping unless it is an emergency or you've forced a retreat on your enemy. The game could've played out very differently if they had been where they needed to be at that moment. Good synergy with them and the dread and TM though in keeping his shielded falcon at bay though - the AM with melta threat make up for the Dread's lack of mobility to keep the falcon from kiting. This game, like the first one, you had pretty much no gens or power for most of the game - that was your Achilles in these two - better power protection - easier said than done sometimes I know! Thanks for sharing these...

[Troubleshooter]

I still feel like I would rather face a Ravener player than a Mekboy in a 1v1.As strange as that sounds, a good Mek player >>> a good ravener. The Mek has to work harder for his IMBA, but the early game harassment is a real hair-puller for the TM and his plodding along pew pewing at the mek who is filling him full of holes.

And thats if you're lucky and he finds the TM before he finds the scouts - thats just GG right there.

Once the mines start a' flyin'... its down to how badly the Mek wants to win. I've seen inept use of mines (I'll mine your scout detectors!) and I've seen noble use (I'll mine all the VP's) but the really evil ones are the Meks that grasp the concept of mini-nukes and how to extract maximum pain - they are just as dangerous to a TM as ravener tunnels - if not more because I can at least guess about where to grenade a new tunnel and get it right once in a while - I cant do anything about my units running over mines on a retreat that costs me a whole squad of stuff.

[Deionarra]

I didn't retreat the scouts until his mekboy was already clear and there was no way I could catch him, not that 250 req is anything to the Orks anyway. As for the looted tank, I'd already given my GG at that point anyway so I didn't care any more.

I've tried adjusting my tactics today but it doesn't seem to matter what commander they use, I can't even give any Ork players a decent game and certainly can't win.

[Logic_Bomb]

Damn - you sound defeated - I had a string of losses last night in 1v1 too - I think TM shines much more in 3v3 - it takes him a while to get to full steam and unlike a lot of other commanders, he has little to offer straight out of the box I find - without wargear he is pretty lacklustre. Plus his global repair is more suited to 3v3. I've been leaning towards WSE lately in 1v1 - at least he can ninjacap and ambush really well right off the bat.

[Deionarra]

I've not given up yet but I'm about ready to write off fighting Orks as a lost cause. I did have one game today that was almost close but I lost an entire squad of ASM to the loss of control bug.

I think Orks may need a completely different kind of strategy but I don't know what yet.

At least I'm win every game I play against a FC or another TM and Eldar is about 50/50. For some reason I'm not seeing many nids at the moment.

[Logic_Bomb]

I find buildings invaluable as TM - especially in the opening vs. melee commanders like FC. I remember once beating a tyranid Hive Tyrant player and he said I only won because I "abused" buildings lol....

[Aokin]

interesting Eldar vs Space Marine replay Deionarra, between Umpire and MarioRoad you are not shying away from challenging games :) I also watched the MarioRoad and Umpire game, which as you say is largely one sided. Orcs for all their unit shortcomings have a few key strengths that can make all the difference.

the Dreadnaught seemed to be the great equaliser for most of your game, although map control was difficult to maintain it would seem up until the Seer Council's appearance there was enough army potential to keep battles even.

[konfeta]

Question - why did you build a Razorback that late? I thought it was a shock-value unit, if you can't build it early don't bother with it at all.

*I am aware that it's get for mapcontrol due to on-the field reinforce, but you didn't have that either.