Warhammer 40k: Space Marine

[3DMARINE]

I'm sad because I don't have a console, and don't really want one. But, even if this game sucks, relic will be getting experience for...HOMEWORLD : BOARDING ACTION...or something like that.

[Paladin]

That was a different game LynX. Though they could have chosen a better name to avoid confusion.
It wasn't exactly a different game. I mean, it was, in the sense that Relic has started from scratch. But it's the same project. THQ took it away from the other developer and gave it to Relic. But Relic is obviously going in a different direction with it.

[LynX]

Paladin: That's good to know, I was just about to ask what GW/THQ were smoking. :p

The art assets from the other studio looked pretty nice though, i'm guessing they're not being made available to Relic?

[Arcinatus]

Well, in order to make it possible to smash many lesser enemies with relative ease, you HAVE to cast the main character as a Spess Mehren.

no
make it a chaos marine!
:D

[Stingra]

The more I watch the gameplay bits of thetrailer the more it looks like they just adjusted the DoW2 camera slightly.

"We are the Mary-Sues, coming again to save the day from the evil aliens and oh we're the holiest of holy warriors so you better watch out or else we'll use our apparently ancient but still perfectly working weaponry to kick your ass in the name of a corpse but we'll probably still lose. Oh, and we'll probably end up fighting some stupid evil magic users who just can't seem to stress how evil they are and call themselves Chaos when in reality everything they do is meticullously planned for every outcome."

That's really all I see this ever being. The best hope for Relic really is to make it suck ass so GW will stop whipping them into making 40K games for awhile. Might see something original come out of it.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

The art assets from the other studio looked pretty nice though, i'm guessing they're not being made available to Relic?
the other video featured one protaganist versus maybe 7-8 enemies at a time

the relic version features 4 protaganists versus dozens, possibly even hundreds of enemies

so yes, the other assets look better :P

[Desk]

Is there a date, or an hours, where/when we will know more about the game ? Has THQ/Relic any schedule for a conference or something like that ? Communication isn't very good.

[Bowkers]

The Official THQ Twitter feed said the presentation of both Space Marine and Homefront happened about an hour and a half ago. I don't know if this is true, I'm just taking their word on it.

EDIT: Right then, apparently they are going to update the Space Marine website with more information throughout the show. I got this from their website so I think its fairly reliable :p So just keep going onto that website I guess. Those who didn't read the thread or have no idea what the website is called, the website is here:

Space Marine (http://spacemarine.com/#/en/home/)

[Bowkers]

Ok. Gamestop just visited the THQ booth. Nothing was told. Nothing new was shown. But have no fear, I'm sure more will be shown :) What the guy (Johnathon) did say, was that the game would be very much focussed around what the player does etc. Every decision, every move, every attack would be down to you, the player. Which is kind of obvious, but am just trying to add some excitement to an otherwise poor initial glimpse at E3. The guys at gamespot were too excited at Homefront, the other THQ game. But I shall perservere.

[CPK]

How can people be sick of being the space marine? its the funnest one. ok maybe like a CSM or an Eldar dire avenger, but the space marines are GW's baby. you could run around as an Imp Guard, but what are u gonna do with an angry flashlight? till warhammer 40k online comes out, we should just stick with the space marines

[The Collector]

I'm trying to imagine hiding in a trench-line shooting at vastly superior foes until they kill you. Not unlike Beach-head or a FPS version of Space Invaders.

However something like Gaunt's Ghosts (or other light infantry: Elysian drop troops? Storm Troopers?) would offer something more interesting than a FPS slogfest.

[DeafMute]

collector.
GOod idea but there is a reason why its on the console.
For the kiddies.
I dont care what age cert the final game gets.
Kids will play it.

[Kryopsis]

There's quite a leap of logic between "the targeted demographic is children" and "children will play the game". Are you sure the reason Warhammer 40K: Space Marine is console-exclusive because Relic and THQ want children to play the game rather than simply aim to maximize their revenue, targeting the console playerbase?

[Taiko]

Not sure how you correlate kids with console gamers. However, I would appreciate it if you would not try to derail the thread. Its about gameplay. Thanks

[Carach]

The more I watch the gameplay bits of thetrailer the more it looks like they just adjusted the DoW2 camera slightly.

"We are the Mary-Sues, coming again to save the day from the evil aliens and oh we're the holiest of holy warriors so you better watch out or else we'll use our apparently ancient but still perfectly working weaponry to kick your ass in the name of a corpse but we'll probably still lose. Oh, and we'll probably end up fighting some stupid evil magic users who just can't seem to stress how evil they are and call themselves Chaos when in reality everything they do is meticullously planned for every outcome."

That's really all I see this ever being. The best hope for Relic really is to make it suck ass so GW will stop whipping them into making 40K games for awhile. Might see something original come out of it.

i sense a very sad and bitter hw fan :help:

deadlyshoe: he means the architecture involved and lighting effects etc. it had a more dirty, realistic look to it than the trailer released by relic (that admittedly looks a lot like dow2 except at ground level heh)

[fuggles]

To be fair he does have a point, space marine stories are generally incredibly dull, especially as again it's clear that you will bash orks until their true master (no doubt chaos) will be revealed.

That does presume people play games for the story...which I generally do, like a fool. I'm off to read the inquisitor wars again.

[D-coy]

Maybe this isn't relevant and might be hard to present between the barriers of a game, but I'd like to see one in which you start as a scout and become a fully-fledged space marine by the end. This would include training in battle, character development and other stuff.

[DougyM]

collector.
GOod idea but there is a reason why its on the console.
For the kiddies.
I dont care what age cert the final game gets.
Kids will play it.

Yes because no PC gamer is anything less than a fully mature adult and no console player is over the age of 18.

Try actually listing some real reasons its being released for the consoles...

Like...

1. The devs can code for them without worrying about hardware restraints or configurations that their customers might have.
2. Sony and Microsoft will likely help fund/develop and or promote the game.

But yeah... dont let things like common sense or reality get in the way of your sweeping incorrect generalistations.

[Mithie]

Alright alright fellas listen up.

I have THE greatest frickin' idea for a warhammer 40k game ever. You guys listening? Relic? GW? Alright? Okay, hear me out. Oh man it's so sweet you guys are gonna LOVE IT!

Ready?

Warhammer 40k: Viva Pinata.

MIND BLOWN!

[Carach]

fuggles: i dunno just because its marines again doesnt mean its dull and boring story line :/ i quite like the marine stories.

Mithie: from TWC?

[ricolikesrice]

Ok. Gamestop just visited the THQ booth. Nothing was told. Nothing new was shown. But have no fear, I'm sure more will be shown What the guy (Johnathon) did say, was that the game would be very much focussed around what the player does etc. Every decision, every move, every attack would be down to you, the player.

wow, you get to decide where to move and how to attack ? sounds awesome - preordered. :awesome:

[Jivebologna]

We are the Mary-Sues, coming again to save the day from the evil aliens and oh we're the holiest of holy warriors so you better watch out or else we'll use our apparently ancient but still perfectly working weaponry to kick your ass in the name of a corpse but we'll probably still lose. Oh, and we'll probably end up fighting some stupid evil magic users who just can't seem to stress how evil they are and call themselves Chaos when in reality everything they do is meticullously planned for every outcome.

I'm going to agree with Stingra. This has been the layout of every 40K story from Relic thus far. The game simply must have at least four races, and said races must either be in an all-out brawl for planetary control, or must be collectively duping each other in a drawn-out-yet-shallow Evil Plot that was concocted by an Evil Sorcerer, who will pace around and make threats while he studiously does nothing until the last half hour of the story.

Far be it for this game to simply be one of the many massive and dangerous ork invasions the Imperium often suffers. Marines are trained to handle all sorts of major threats, but every key race and faction showing up on one planet is getting pretty old. The 'variety' of races, led by their cookie-cutter leader personas, kills story depth.

[The Collector]

Would kill for a Horus Heresy level. Marine v Marine?

Then again, console games can be construed as relatively straightforward too. Look at Gears of War. Broken out of prison. Escape from prison. Find alpha squad. etc etc.

[Sinogrim]

Anybody else noticed there's an Xbox Live icon on the official site? :)

[fuggles]

Meh, just make it the new chapter logo and bedone with it

[Bowkers]

Ok guys some updates:

The trailer was shown behind closed doors today. The article (http://ow.ly/aUZH) that Gamespot gives us little to slobber over, although the points that did grab my attention:


t's combat that will be one of the key factors in Space Marine and while the specific control mechanics are still under wraps, Relic reps told us that they intend every button to be capable of a violent action


What weapons you wield will be only part of the customization options in Space Marine--the footage also showed some leveling aspects, where the player will be able to upgrade attributes like strength, attack, and defense.


Relic is also being tight-lipped about online options in the game, but hinted that they look to do justice to the Warhammer universe's tradition as a shared experience.

[Desk]

So we are back with the "we show things behind closed door so online/paper press can tell bullshit"-"we give screenshots to paper press"-"we tease to annoy you to hell"-"but you will see it will be so great you won't belive it"-game ?
If I had a console, there would be a lot of games which would attract me a lot more, making all hype attempt useless.

[Bowkers]

Sorry I forgot to add, that IGN has added further to their news article, out of which I managed to get this:


We did get to see in the video a brief look at a character equip screen, which featured a few slots for inputting weapons, armor, and items, as well as progress bars for different statistics.


So yeah, certainly food for thought.

[Jivebologna]

This grabbed my eye:


Beyond that overview, we don't know much else about the story in the game.But, honestly, when the rest of the trailer was filled with action-packed shots of Space Marines and Orks mixing it up in glorious fashion, who really cares about the story?

I hope that's Gamespot's attitude. That sort of comment seemed to pop up in DoW 2 articles, and it barely had a story to speak of. I realize that a straightforward storyline is practically inevitable, but still, it wouldn't kill them to at least make it entertaining. Arcade-style slaughter will get boring as soon as you've seen every exciting kill.

[The Collector]

DoW brought us the interesting kill animations in the first place. I don't know what they can do to top it. Seeing the various combinations of bodies blowing up does get old after while (this coming from a Fallout/Fallout 2 player).

Please tell me that the straightforward killing is not the only thing driving this forward. It would be a grave disappointment.

[SACSlym]

Defend the generators! Capture the foundry! Kill the carnifex!

[Kushan_Pilot]

/shudder.

[Jutsuka]

There's an article here (http://www.gamingexcellence.com/xbox360/games/2208/p20090603.shtml) that uses the phrase "and the bit at the beginning that speaks of the taint of Chaos" which might indicate we'll be fighting CSM later in the game.

[Cuddles]

Nice find Jutsuka. It also mentions the titan was walking around blasting Orks and they saw a Hive Tyrant, with the mention of Chaos too it looks like we’re going to see at least 4 races in the game :D

[Pocktio]

They can scrap story, melee and character development as long as they get the bolters right. If they fail at the bolters it would be like the new AVP game having shit pulse rifles. Unthinkable really. Although Relic haven't dissapointed so far so fingers crossed.

[The Collector]

Adding races does not instantly make the game good. However it offers hope that the game won't be a straightforward "smash the Orks" title.

[Carach]

relic has to put in multiple races anyway, otherwise people moan theyre favourite faction isnt in, that its 'only space marines again'.....they will never please everyone with regards to what they include storywise etc.

how else are they to tell a decent, 'believable' story involving so many factions than the way theyve done it before? space marines cant warp across the galaxy and fight chaos in a day, then fly back and fight orks elsewhere etc etc..

[Mithie]

Mithie: from TWC?

Yeah. Been a looonnggg time lurker of Relic News.


Please tell me that the straightforward killing is not the only thing driving this forward. It would be a grave disappointment.

Why? Straightforward killing in the name of the Emperor sounds like a great driving factor for a space marine. What alternative motivation would you prefer? Saving the princess from the evil orks?

[Paladin]

Straightforward killing is what all action games of this type are about.

It's like complaining that a Quake game is all about shooting things.

[Someguy]

I don't know if you guys noticed in that trailer, but there is a dreadnought shooting his assault cannon. It's shows up in :23 of the trailer.

Playable character or a support unit?

[Pocktio]

I keep thinking of things to add. I wonder if Relic have got rid of their usual, pointless and seemingly absurd limitations.

Ie
Will there be more fist based weapons
Will there be combi-weapons
Will there be melta weapons
Will there be lightning claws
Will you be able to wield a storm bolter WITHOUT terminator armour

Etc. I mean if it's an ARPG not including such obvious and common weapons in 40k would just be ridiculous and seem like they're just being lazy and just doing their very minimum.

[Zwebbie]

Straightforward killing is what all action games of this type are about.Note that it's also heavily co-op focused. Which is another -1 modifier to the likelihood of a deep story.

[Kien]

Ie
Will there be more fist based weapons
Will there be combi-weapons
Will there be melta weapons
Will there be lightning claws


Mmm me wants to have lightning claws in a FPS/TPS. :bigwave: Melta weapons is a must since they are among the coolest and most and are most curious about how they actually look.

[The Collector]

I dunnos. Gears of War was about 80% killing without going overboard. Games that make you forget all you're doing is putting things down the same way (or similar ways) are clever and worth the replay in my opinion. Those that rub it in your face are usually quite boring, unless the killing process itself is a challenging or interesting enough to endure replay.

Replay in one form or another is what leads to games getting sequels. Games that people play once tend not to develop into a franchise.

[Shoota Fodder]

Gears Of War 2 had a good story and was massively Co-Op focused, Zwebbie, so it can be pulled of.

[deepjay]

Im surprised and a little disappointed that there hasnt been a stage demo or something of this game - only a trailer. It'd be nice to see it being played.

[Bowkers]

Another article released, again short and concise:

SPACE MARINEEE (http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3174629)

The bit I found really exciting but also worrying :p


E3 2009 has a friggin' ton of God of War clones (including the unexpectedly awesome Dante's Inferno), but if Space Marine delivers on its promise, it will blow them all away.

Seriously. If this game lives up (and beats) to God of War which I've been drooling over, then this game apparently is awesome. All the articles have been really good reviews. The only disappointment is lack of more trailers. But to be honest, I'm happy.

[coldplay]

I keep thinking of things to add. I wonder if Relic have got rid of their usual, pointless and seemingly absurd limitations.

Ie
Will there be more fist based weapons
Will there be combi-weapons
Will there be melta weapons
Will there be lightning claws
Will you be able to wield a storm bolter WITHOUT terminator armour

Etc. I mean if it's an ARPG not including such obvious and common weapons in 40k would just be ridiculous and seem like they're just being lazy and just doing their very minimum.

When it comes to make those decisions, can we outsource all the art, audio, fx and gameplay tuning to you, then? :)

What you see as us being lazy (I assume you're referring to DOW2) is making sure we ship the game on time. I assure you, I have never been in a meeting on DOW2 or Space Marine where we said, "Hey, let's just do the minimum. Those silly fans won't even NOTICE!"

Just saying :P

[Bowkers]

Gamespot interview here with David Cheong. Enjoy:

Interview regarding SM (http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6211532/)

[CommissarRezail]

i hope i can creat my own guy, i want him to look like me. Well my mind me not actual me.

[sajuukar]

Me, I dig terminator armor. Give me terminator armor and an assault cannon. That's all I ask.

[Pocktio]

Coldplay I just can't think of any other words to describe why through the entirety of the first DoW2 AND then DoW2 didn't have any of those weapons other than lazy/minimum. They're such an obvious option that could add so much to the game despite simply being but a few weapons and assorted wargear. It's like Relic soley using Blood Ravens, they do do good 40k games but it makes me upset to see you guys just picking the same bits again and again when you have such a massive universe of material to draw on!

[Jutsuka]

THQ TV interview with Jonathan Dowdeswell here (http://www.thq-games.com/uk/thqtv/index/?movieId=3218). It has some new glimpses of gameplay including the leveling and wargear screen and a carnifex.

[Fightingfirst]

I hope they make nids and orks proper hoard armies compared to what they were in DOW2, looks like a good game though.

[Quak0r]

Screencapped out of the THQ interview:

http://quak0r.qu.funpic.de/bilder/screen-sm.jpg*

*i assume it's not final *shrug*

[Pocktio]

3 attributes? That's it? Unless this is just the backpack menu but I doubt it.

[Cuddles]

That’s exactly what I think it is Pocktio.

It’s just showing the effect the back pack has on your attributes. The red in defence shows it will have a negative affect and the other two have silhouettes showing what it will increase that stat too.

Doesn’t really give much of an indication if those are the only attributes however.

[fuggles]

I suspect that those ARE the only attributes as you would expect a jumppack to effect movement and stuff.

[Akagi_Ryu]

... so more or less it's a "Warhammer 40k meets Diablo and God of War"?

Can't say that's a bad thing really. After all the strategy games I've been wanting a bloody mindless massacre.

And about stats, well, I can't say I'm bothered.
Those aren't the only things that make a good ARPG, more importantly I want to see LOADS of different skills obtainable with several of them being non-damage oriented skills.

Also, if we get several skills that can "sync-kill" multiple oponents at once I'll be sold.

[Carach]

Yeah. Been a looonnggg time lurker of Relic News.

small world :)

oh and on that THQ video (great vid btw, fit woman interviewing but tbh why do e3 etc employ people that dont play games to do interviews - just for eyecandy? theyre invading our little world :P) theres a point when ur guy is running off across a bridge somewhere a battle developing behind him with blue streaks of weapons fire.. i cant think of anyone with blue streaks of weapons fire apart from Tau or eldar? orks certainly dont have such weapons, Imperium dont either really?

[Dark Angel N00b]

Did anyone else notice the 1up article say something about psyker powers? I'd love to see what they could do with a librarian in this kind of game, 40k's psychics can be completely brutal.

+ The power sword looks incredible, nice and blue and shiny.

Also i loved the heavy bolter curbstomp, that was awesome, nice to see that now the heavy weapon marine can do something else other than swing his gun futilely at the enemy!

This is shaping up to be, if nothing else a very nice visual game.

Whats the problem with three attributes anyway? At least its simple, chances are that its only showing those on that screen that changing that piece of equipment will affect though.

[Pocktio]

So there are 3 attributes :/

Also GoW2 reference ahoy, anyone see the SM with a heavy bolter curb stomp the ork :D

[Cuddles]

I wouldn’t got to hung up about the attributes. I’m sure they’ve got plenty of time to change them. I just want some info on multiplayer. 4 player co-op FTW!

Edit: This is starting to sound like a 40k orgy. The THQ interview states there will be Orks, Eldar, Nids and Chaos marines. Me likes!

[CommissarRezail]

3 diff attributes fine wiht me, no putting points in something that may or may not effect the battle. Such as will and spirit ... i hate when games do that.

[Robert Frazer]

While Pocktio's being unnecessarily petulant about it, I agree with the general sentiment that the scope for customisation is going to be crucial in distinguishing Space Marine in the market. As the IGN interview related, Space Marines are knights, not soldiers, and for such people war is a personal endeavour over a profession. Consequently, they shouldn't be limited to issue kit, but war how they want to.

Don't be content with bolt pistols and thunder hammers. Your arsenal should include everything to satisfy any whim. Autoguns, laspistols, virus grenades, power-nunchuks, confronting the horde with nothing more than a combat knife - hell, you should be able to unicycle into the middle of the mob with dual-wielded rubber chickens if you want to. This isn't a competitive multiplayer game, and so balance isn't so important - obviously weaker weapons simply add handicaps for the player who wants a challenge, or just wants to have a muck about.

[Herr Kodax]

Anyone else notice the Ork getting cut in half by the power sword, or the one whose head gets halved by a chainsword blow (the kill after that kick-ass curb stomp). I think I saw the dead Ork's tongue. Yay for gore!

[Desk]

Yes, right between upper and lower jaw !

[Cuddles]

The quality of the killing is pretty epic. It puts gears of war to shame :D.

[l337raceryo]

For this game to be truly epic, it needs COOP.

[Dauntless]

Carny!

I hope tyranids are in.

[Bowkers]

Carny!

I hope tyranids are in.

Well, we did see a carnifex in the trailer, so unless something goes horribly wrong, they will be there ;)

[Fire and Steel]

Where exactly was the Carnifex in the trailer? Because I remember the IGN article claiming there was one, then never actually seeing anything resembling a Carnifex throughout the whole thing.

Edit: Just watched it again. Pretty sure there's no hint of any Xeno besides Orksies.

[Cuddles]

Watch the THQ interview. You'll see it in the distance on the left hand side killing stuff. Same screen as the titan shooting things.

[Fightingfirst]

the fex is seen in a new interveiw with relic at e3. fex gets shot in half by a titan. check out gamespot i think to see it

EDIT oops some one got there first

[Quak0r]

I object!

http://quak0r.qu.funpic.de/bilder/screen-cf.jpg

It' from the THQ interview

wow..... two people beat me to it XD

[Bowkers]

Fire and Steel does have a point though. Show me where the Carnifex was in the original trailer, where it was first claimed please.

[Quak0r]

There is none in the Trailer that was shown to the public. But as the press was shown an extended one I assume the video parts that where shown in the THQ interview are from the extended trailer. *shrug*

[Bowkers]

Two of the articles I have linked earlier, showed the same trailer that we were shown. They both reported a Carnifex moving towards the Space Marines. You then look at both trailers, and one, there is no Carnifex in the first one, and two, the Carnifex in the new one is getting shot at by the Titan, and not really moving towards the Space Marines. The only thing that is moving towards the SM are the orks.

[Cuddles]

Both of those vids are likely to be cut down versions of what was shown to the press.

[nanahachi]

I was at E3 yesterday and actually got my butt handed to me by Jonathan (in the THQ interview) in Red Faction Guerrilla (totally fun to play).

The extended video was shown in a small, enclosed room with couches, overseen by 2 guys from Relic. At least one of the 2 said that he and other staff were self-admitted Warhammer nerds, and he mentioned the SM Codexes and the TT during the Q&A afterwards.

I tried to get more info on the game from Jonathan (after playing Red Faction) but he and the other Relic folk were nice but tight-lipped, which is understandable considering its super early in the development phase. Jonathan actually says a whole lot more in the interview than we were told during/after the demo.

The extended trailer did add a few extra tidbits on top of the public trailer, e.g. the extra sync-kills and the character stats/equipment screen (the stuff shown in the THQ interview), but overall it had the same feeling & content. I didn't even notice the 'nid in the video, I was too busy staring that the Titan blasting away. It did look fantastic on the LCD TV they were using in the demo-room. It sounded great too.

I'm personally excited about the game even if it's not "perfect."

Also -- didn't this this posted, here's a Kotaku article on WH40k Space Marine (http://kotaku.com/5279491/warhammer-40k-space-marine-impressions)

[Fightingfirst]

Does this mean we get a new section on the forums then :)?

Also during the interview states: "...your sent down to be er... a really big bug hunter..." more than likely confirms nids as a bashable race.

[Bowkers]

Does this mean we get a new section on the forums then ?

Status of new forum (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=226510)

So at this stage who knows. We've had a couple of trailers which have been worth discussing, as well as heaps of articles. Let the hiearchy decide.

[Esa]

There's a fukken titan

[gorays]

If this game is focused on close combat like Dynasty warriors, the game will get repetitive and old quick.

And if SP camp only features SM, then SM should have more customizable weapons. Same old hammers, jet packs and bolters won't be enough.

[Bowkers]

Well that's being dubbed as the "Phoenix" engine and has been built from the ground up specifically for the game with a dedicated console team working on the title.

Found more information about the engine that is being used for the game. Not that it matters, seeing as it's been entirely built from scratch.

Howerver...I bring you this:


The developers also said that there would be a strong focus on multiplayer, and that including a five player co-op mode was “a strong goal,” but they didn’t elaborate any further.

Oh. God. This better happen.

[Downside]

All this game needs is a Survival mode in which you play as a lone Khorne Berzerker that gets stronger as you kill more and more victims (bonuses for decapitations), but the fighting never ends, and when you finally do die, you cut off your own head. Add this and the game will truly kick ass.

[Paladin]

/me kills gorays, and anyone else who says that dynasty warriors is old and repetitive.

[Someguy]

I was hoping this game would be like Dynasty Warriors: Space Marine. I welcome it for one thing especially if the co-op is going to be four to five players.

[Fightingfirst]

I hope enemies parry properly and not you just swipe at hordes and if they parry you have to start your attack all again like in the Lord of the Rings games.

[Jivebologna]

You mean the kind of parry where your attack is not just blocked, but rebounded backwards? Yeah, that's pretty damn frustrating. It'd be nice to have an 'active' defense, where there are no outright damage blocks, but true parries that lead into reversals and counterattacks.

[CommissarRezail]

Lets see that picture had, orks in center, nids to the uper left, and A TITAN IN THE UPER RIGHT MY GOD. i hope i can drive that baby for a few days.

[Hirmetrium]

Holy fuck, 5 player co-operative play vs Tyranids, Orks, Chaos and Eldar... if they pull this off, its going to be sick.

And Titans. Oh god titans.

This game seems to get better and better.

[Gorb]

You have no idea how much I want a 360 at this point.


I was hoping this game would be like Dynasty Warriors: Space Marine. I welcome it for one thing especially if the co-op is going to be four to five players.I agree. I know a lot of people slam Dynasty Warriors, but for me it's an enjoyable hack and slash I can waste hours on. And that's kinda what I want from this game. Only this game will feature bolters, thunder hammers and everything 40k related that I love.

[SpitfireMK461]

As long as bolters actually rip things apart, I'll be happy.

[Shuma]

Dinasty Warriors? it would be ten times better if it's like Devil May Cry, God of War or Ninja Gaiden. Dinasty warrior get's old very fast.

[Kushan_Pilot]

It was nice to see that THQ clip, it extended some footage and gave us enough to notice the Titan in actual motion. I didn't see anything on the field that had a hope in h*ll of contesting its presence, so I wonder at the nature of the combat. Will we see a "bio-titan?"

[bman3k]

The trailer looks pretty good, but I don't want it to be too hack 'n slashy, the enemies always end up looking too wimpy when that happens. I'm a Space Marine fan, but I know Orks will always put up a decent fight :). Also I hope there is some actual depth to game play, like some semi complicated combos and stuff like that, some thing like Ninja Gaiden... with Space Marines.

[ThirdDanScoota]

* Paladin kills gorays, and anyone else who says that dynasty warriors is old and repetitive.

Well, now that you mention it... :D

DW's problem wasn't so much that it was hack'n slash, but that it never "evolved" much throughout the series. Maps changed, costumes (and voice actors) changed, more new "clones" were added... not a whole lot else, with the exception of the Empires variants (which kicked major ass).

WH40k:SM actually looks like it might be a fun game. I'm hoping that using your fellow squad members to pull off basic tactical maneuvers will be necessary at some points though, and not just hack your way through every poor sod that gets in your way. Afterall, destroying an Ork WAAAAGH or Tyranid swarm involves more than poking it with your sword a few times.
That said, I don't own nor want a BrickBox 360/PS3, so hopefully they'll pull a GTA4 and eventually port it to PC.

[TheLoneKnight]

I don't know about that. The latest Dynasty Warriors "evolved" a fair bit, adding ridiculously massive armies and letting you regularly rack up 600-1000+ or so kills every map, clearer/simpler objectives and a heavier focus on leveling up your character rather than randomly finding weapons.

If WH40K: Space Marine lets me and five of my friends regularily murder nearly a thousand orks every map, I've got to say; I'm totally fucking in.

Even if the controls are simple. Even if the graphics suck. Just so long as I can shoot, hack, and muscle my way through gibbing several hundred orks in every level I would love this game.

Of course, I don't have a 360 or PS3, so my opinion probably doesn't matter in the first place. :p

... and now I'm suddenly waning nostalgic about the Lu Bu campaign. Who would have thought it would be so fun to take on multiple armies (or, in the case of the finale, every army) simultaneously while placing yourself at an incredible strategic disadvantage just so that you can prove that the ludicrous brute force of one man is superior to any strategy, tactic, or army in ancient China.

[ThirdDanScoota]

Eh, which one is the "latest"? Last I remember was DW:Gundam, and apparently that was utter rubbish.

In any case, simply "muscling" your way through thousands of Orks, while fun, completely misses the point of being a Space Marine in the first place, unless they're Blood Angels or something. Full Hack'n Slash is fun, but I'd prefer having to out-wit my numerically superior enemy than just carve through them, plus it makes more sense. Marines are a surgical knife, not a WMD.

Then again, one can truly wonder how they're apparently master tacticians with such colourful armour on display, and loudspeakers mounted on their vehicles shouting praises to the Emperor.

[TheLoneKnight]

Dynasty Warriors 6 is the one I'm thinking of. It was the first "Next Gen" DW. New character designs and everything.

And yes, strategy is good and fine; the fun of the Lu Bu (which were essentially bonus levels after you had beaten the game with practically everyone else) levels were simply that your strategy was, in most cases, to deliberately let your opponents use their various strategies and tactics for the purpose of making things more difficult for you, since your overarching objective was merely to find a challenge "worthy of Lu Bu."

It already looks like Space Marine will have plenty of interesting tactical options, of course; I just hope they include some ridiculously overdone awe-inspiring hack-fests for those of us who enjoy the prospect of being able to rack up a good 2000 kills on a single map. ;)

[Coey]

I like how Lu Bu was supposed to be the hardest character to beat but he was always on the second battle you fought. The one with the Gates.

[TheLoneKnight]

It could be worse. Lu Bu is on the first mission in numerous DW6 campaigns, and there's bonus experience for killing him.

Although that usually just tricks you into foolishly attacking the guy who can kill you in 3-4 regular hits and who requires a good 50-100 hits to take out in return, and who simultaneously has a nasty tendency to ignore the recoil of most of your attacks. I think I've only managed to pull it off once with a low-level character and even then it was only because I had a nifty ice-element blade that could periodically freeze him. Gah, that fight was hell.


In an attempt to drive the conversation a little more on-topic; is it just me, or does Space Marine look a little more reminiscent of God of War than Dynasty Warriors? Perhaps the comparison between SM and DW is flawed, since the cinematic/gameplay video shows quite a bit of kill animations and only a small number of reasonably detailed units.

I still hope that the gameplay errs more on the side of Dynasty Warriors, though, since killing a bunch of weak/moderate guys tends to be more amusing than spending several minutes knocking one or two enemies around. It seems more Space Marine-y to just slaughter everything between you and your objective.

[Fightingfirst]

i hope it doesnt disolve into a mindless hack and slash. i wonder if you can make use of drop pods so you can choose whether to drop close to your target and go in guns blazing or drop further away and make a more stealthy tactical approach like in that medal of honour game. Wonder if there will be any dlc and how good patch support will be?

[Bowkers]

Another Bowkers update:

From more news articles from across the internet:


Vehicles and Dreadnaughts were brought up in one person's questioning and the developers slyly responded with a 'no comment' and one actually verbalized 'wink wink'

and,,


No one would confirm a release date but the game will be coming out on the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 (hopefully a PC version will be announced at some point)

The last quote, I'm thinking is more hopeful then anything regarding PC. But you never know. The first quote is to basically say, yes you'll be able to use vehicles, whether its for certain sections of the game, remains to be seen.

[Death to Xenos!]

More intel, this time from Incgamers


You play as a super soldier, a Space Marine no less, and will be able to play as what seemed to be one of four classes, each with their own special progression tree.


Four classes? Specialized assault marine, Commander, etc... I wonder if your choices on skill trees will limit what weapons are available to you further in the game. i.e. A support marine won't be able to equip Lightning Claws when available.

Perhaps a Commander tree will be able to call in Whirlwind strikes, etc...

Thoughts?


Oh yeah Relic, PLEASE do this game right, I've been wanting to play this game since the 80's as well!!!

[Paladin]

Well, now that you mention it...

DW's problem wasn't so much that it was hack'n slash, but that it never "evolved" much throughout the series. Maps changed, costumes (and voice actors) changed, more new "clones" were added... not a whole lot else, with the exception of the Empires variants (which kicked major ass).
That's the thing though... I don't even want it to evolve. They created a literally perfect brawler. No need to mess with it.

Well, maybe if all they did was focus on creating new movesets, so that every character fought with a unique style...

[Cuddles]

The classes would add to the re-play factor if done right. I'd assume they'd be bassing thier classes around the typical types.

Close combat dude
Ranged dude
Librarian (Magic dude)
Scout? (Stealth dude) or Apoth (Heally dude)

Edit: Thought i'd add some flesh to my post :D

The only problem with the above, is that Space Marines tend to be above average at just about everthing. Thier ranged dudes can still do some damage in close combat and magic dudes who are typically glass cannons are more like diamond cannons with spikey bits on. From what they've shown us so far i don't think stealth would be a viable class.

It really depends on the dynamic of the team (the 4 marines) and how they act together. You could have a commander type who "buffs" his allies, a ranged guy a melee guy and an apoth to heal the team.

[l337raceryo]

Screw that. 5 player coop God of War. I dont want to play WoW with SM.

Seriously, if we have to assign a tank, mage, healer, and a DPS, for every boss fight; I'm going to personally hunt you down and give you a Ginger Root Beer.

[Paladin]

It's probably going to adhere to tabletop... Three of the classes are obvious, Tac Marine, Assault Marine, Devastator Marine. The fourth is probably up in the air... Could be Scout, Sergeant, Apoth... who knows. Though Librarian would be awesome.

I doubt it's going to be "tank, mage, healer, dps". Considering how the SM operate... EVERYTHING is a DPS. And a Tank. It's just what you get on top of that, and exactly how you inflict your stupidly massive damage.

[DeathsHands]

It would be pretty sweet to have Terminators as bonus characters.

[Paladin]

No need to be bonus characters. Just allow the standard characters to earn Terminator armor.

[Cuddles]

That wasn't quite my intention guys, but i see your point.

I was more stero-typing them into identified roles than saying thats how they will work and you'll need a healer, tank etc. Mostly because i don't like Ginger Root Beer. :D

I don't think the classes are that obvious Paladin, The difference between a Tac and a Devastator is tiny. I'd much prefer if they went for 4 different classes with 4 completely different play styles. Such as scout, Assault Marine, Tac Marine and a Librarian.

[Paladin]

Yeah, but that would suck, to be honest. That gets into the whole "Tank Healer Mage" syndrome where everyone is too specialized. No one wants that.

It's better if everyone is good at everything, but they have specialties that they're even better at.

And the difference between a Tac marine and a Devastator is actually significant, as Tac marines aren't necessarily allowed to carry a heavy weapon. And in gameplay terms it's huge. A Tac would be able to carry a melee weapon as a backup, whereas a Devastator would have to club baddies with his oversized gun.

I see it being a matter of Assault being Awesome at melee, but only mediocre at range, Tac being good at both, but awesome at neither, and Devastator being awesome at range, but mediocre in close combat.

Librarians would obviously be good at close combat, mediocre at range, and have all sorts of wonderful special abilities.

One good thing would be that since this isn't a strategy game, they won't have to nerf Termie armor to make it "balanced".

[DeathsHands]

I'd rather the difficulty just be increased for Terminator armour.

[Paladin]

I'd rather they just send more enemies when you're in termie armor. Slaughter!

[Carach]

my god people want this to be like dynasty warriors? please relic dont listen to them :/

dynasty warriors is total pants.

[Paladin]

Dynasty Warriors is teh awesome. Nothing complicated, no story to worry about, nothing but mindless slaughter, divorced from all the unnecessary bits.

[gorays]

Game franchises like Dynasty warriors are a disgrace to video games.

Now getting back on topic, I hope SM is a fair mix of god of war and gears of war.

[The Collector]

For those of us who haven't played God of War or Gears of War (in my case, only playing Gears); what features did you like from either game?

[Rafta]

The Gore from Gears, I expect no less in Spacemarine!
Also it felt like the guys in Gears had mass.

[Fightingfirst]

Please implement the use of cover in the game :)

[The Collector]

Gears' cover was indeed innovative and awesome. However, Space Marines do not use cover. Ceramite beats cinderblock as cover every time.

The fact that they paint their armor blue or white or red and other solid colors on a battlefield indicates they do not care much about cover to begin with. It would be unlike a Space Marine to stick to cover in quite the same way as it is used in Gears.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Piles of ork bodies are the best cover, really.

[Rafta]

Spacemarines use cover, they turn the battlefield against you!

[Exsus]

I belive there was ork limb flying about in the trailer, so there should be some gib.

[Malarky]

If it's like a WoW 5 man but with SMs... I'd play it. I'd hate myself but I would play it. It could give Relic valuable intel on how to approach the Warhammer:40k MMO??? :idea:

[Shuma]

Another Company is making a 40k MMO. And i fail to see how this looks like a MMO.

[Paladin]

My ideal for this game would actually be very close to Dynasty Warriors: Empires. Your team would be the elite squad, sent to secure valuable assets in larger battle. Every map would have a certain number of control points, and your task would be to take them and secure them. To give the game scale, you would have the Guard there to support you (It's a forgeworld after all, there's going to be a very strong Guard force). They would hold their own fairly well against the enemy rank and file, but get mauled by the enemy elite squads (Who would be your main adversaries, obviously).

When you take an objective, the guard slowly moves in to secure it. The longer it's secure, the stronger the guard presence at that location becomes, and eventually they'll even move armor up.

This way you at least somewhat preserve the idea of the SM as a surgical strike force (Albeit more of a sledgehammer than a scalpel), while still having the huge scale battle to take part in.

I think Relic should really use this game to define the character of the Blood Ravens though. Not in fluff terms, but in terms of military doctrine. Are they a blitz assault chapter like the Black Templars? Are they siege specialists like the Imperial Fists? These are the details I want to know about the Blood Ravens, and an action game is a good place to explain them.

[Bowkers]

I think Relic should really use this game to define the character of the Blood Ravens though.

There are rumours that it's an altogether new chapter.

[Paladin]

Meh. Even if it's a new chapter they need to give it some character in terms of it's military doctrine.

[Taiko]

"Also it felt like the guys in Gears had mass"

I agree. Its the first game I've played where everything feels real in some weird sort of way. The way the camera moves when you run, to the sound and fell of a weapon when you fire it. Everything has mass and feels solid, even getting hit. RF:G has none of this feel to it. I hope Relic can do the same with W40k:SM. I was always a FPS fan, but after Gears I now prefer TPS.

[Carach]

If it's like a WoW 5 man but with SMs... I'd play it. I'd hate myself but I would play it. It could give Relic valuable intel on how to approach the Warhammer:40k MMO??? :idea:

my god no. and if wh40kmmo is gonna be wow too they can fuck right off. (quantity of players by no means quality of game. why so many people got suckered into such a poor MMO i have no idea)

but fortunately i dont think relic want to make this game in any way like WoW (tank man/mage/whatever other...)

[Fightingfirst]

@ the collector: space marines do use cover. painting there armour only signifies they dont do under handed tactics. space marines will always seek a tactical advantage and shooting from cover grants them an advantage. just because they have ceramite armour doesnt mean they will stand in the open and rely on their armour when they would be better protected in cover.

[Supernaut]

To add to Fighting's comment, blatantly wrong remark is blatant. :D


I'm becoming more interested in this game the more I hear about it, a GoW style cover system would be nice but I'd like to the option to smash through cover occasionally - say a brick wall here or there.

The more gibs the better.

The more Eldar the better for that matter as well, I can see Striking Scorpions being in this game, because they SHOULD be, nae they MUST be.

Also I just imagined playing as a Librarian and while I doubt the game can match the levels of awesome generated in my head if it comes close I'll be a happy man. *slices with power sword* *shoots out some lightning, blasting Orks into nice juicy bits* "For the Emperor!"

/mad rambling

[KON Air]

Ya know being branded pyschos doesn't mean every chapter is pyscho. I mean a Dark Templar taking cover with a sword and bolter is retarded. Sure. Or a raging Blood Angel in fr*cking bright red armour won't sneak around. However there are more level headed Chapters. ie. Blood Ravens, some logical Ultramarines etc. The SM Armour is painted to strike fear it is a way of saying "We are coming to break your stuff." but there is time and place to do that stuff. Since most sneaking around is done by Scouts you won't see Marines in a stiuation to jump from shadows to shadows. However when there are 1345315 mutated chaos cultists or 315135135 tyranids between them and their objective "LOOK AT ME I'M AN ANGEL OF DEATH PAINTED IN BRIGHT COLOURS, SHOOT ME FIRST" tactic won't get them anywhere.

I mean you guys logic is fundemantally flawed at the start; Concelament doesn't always mean Cover and vice versa. If Marines didn't ever use concealment to hide their movements or took cover when there is a strom of bullets* they would have ceased existing long, long ago. Forming a line, holding hands and walking in a straight line like a bunch of hippies protesting whatever needs protesting at the moment won't get you anywhere.

*ranging from living munition that eats your insides, hotter then sun plasma, reality distorting warp sh*t flung at speed of light, monomolecular crystals that cut pretty much anything...

[Pocktio]

Space Marines use garish colours to signify their lack of fear of their opponents.

With exceptions, as usual. Deathwatch and various chapters.

[MonMalthias]

Just because they don't know fear, doesn't mean they don't take cover. All the armour in the world will fail eventually. There are seams, shot-traps, gaps, weaknesses. You can minimise faults but never eliminate flaws in armour design. Hence, taking cover in a firefight makes a lot more sense than storming ahead, screaming oaths to the Emperor, only to get scythed down.

Space marines wear bright colours because "what the enemy can see, they will soon learn to fear". They don't bother with concealment because they know that fear is just as effective a weapon as camouflage. But just because they don't care about concealing their presence, doesn't mean they don't care about not dying so they can accomplish their goals.

I can only hope that the bolter is done right in this game. 50 cal armour piercing, mass reactive explosive shells that turn your torso into a bloody mess should not make little pinging noises and dainty flashes as they enter your opponents. The former 40k: Space Marine did this, and I hated it. Yes it was intended to emphasise close combat, but still. When a bolt shell hits an opponent, I expect it to blow them the f##k apart.

I hope that Relic tries to differentiate this from DoW2. There are already Orks and Nids in the trailer. All they have to do is add Eldar and it'd feel just like old times. I acknowledge that this will be a TPS ARPG, but from the looks of the trailer, from the ASM goomba stomp to the Ork-Nob-with-a-chainaxe, it's looking distressingly familiar.

Also, why are they using the Diablo font and icon design ethic (square, relief buttons, triangle bezel) for the customisation screen? It's nice to have a nod towards the seminal ARPG franchise, but it's kind of asking for a lawsuit. Still, it's WIP work, so I guess they'll change it.

Finally, since this is a console game and therefore not subject to engine restrictions with respect to inclusive hardware configurations, Relic really needs to review their writing in their campaigns and voicework. The writing for Relic's campaigns seems to have gotten progressively worse (and lazier) since Dark Crusade, and I'd like to see a return to the emotionally charged moments of HW1 (Kharak is burning.) and DoW (SINDRIIII!).

Simply shoehorning a story into a hack and slash game doesn't, and shouldn't work. Look to Diablo and its successors, and you'll see a well written, if slightly cliched story line. If they go the way of DoW2 and simply have "oh noes Orks to the right, Nids to the left, and Eldar RIGHT BEHIND US!" then I will become very sad. Relic MUST and I mean MUST, spend the time developing how each faction came to the forge world, develop the marines beyond the Angels of Death persona. Just splicing in exposition into cut scenes and tactical briefings isn't enough. The missions, the voice work, the overarching plot must all bring the game together. Not like DoW2, which just puts Orks, Eldar, Nids onto the planets and then tells you to fight them.

[Fire and Steel]

Not like DoW2, which just puts Orks, Eldar, Nids onto the planets and then tells you to fight them.

To be fair, Dark Crusade was the beginning of this trend. Hell, Winter Assualt was practically the beginning, but it at least attempted to retain a main storyline. Dark Crusade and beyond was miserable at story telling. Dawn of War was where it was at.

I'd be happy if it was a minimum of 2 races since it keeps enemy variety up. Though, depending on what kind of game it ends up playing like the Orks have plenty of variety to carry a game.

[l337raceryo]

They need variety.

It should start with Orks, for basic slaughtering.

Then build up to Tau. For shooty slaughtering.

Then build up to Eldar. For shooty stabby slaughtering.

Then build up to Tyrannids. For crawly slaughtering.

Then build up to CSM, but have them be true CSM, not cannon fodder CSM. Then this is where the game gets epic cause you're fighting equals or better. Hell 5 vs 5 should be SM vs CSM, though preferably they should allow 5 vs 5 using all available races.

[MonMalthias]

You can have plenty of enemy variety even if you only have one enemy faction. Hell, look at Gears of War. Look at Killzone 2. In Gears you fight the locust. Ok, one faction. Sounds boring. But it isn't! You have plenty of stuff to kill in Gears not by virtue of having more than one opposing faction, but because the designers have taken the time to design mechanics and art for stuff for you to shoot at. From your basic grub to those bats that hate the light to the brumak, there's no shortage of variety.

Even if only Orks were the antagonist, there'd still be significant variety. Look to the Ork codex, and you have Deffcoptas, Lootas, Stormboyz, Nobz, Mekboys, Kommandos, Wyrdboys, Mad doks...the list goes on. There's probably more variety in the Ork Kodex than there is in GoW or KZ. Not to mention Orky looted vehicles and buildings and environments like the squig farmers or the grot dens. There's plenty of stuff even within a faction. Environmental design, art direction and game mechanics and implementation are really all that hold you back.

You know what'd be awesome? Teleporting onto the back of a Squiggoth, assaulting all of the turrets and crew, then RIDING IT for excessive amounts of win. Afterwards, one of the crew can do a Legolas and brain it with a thunder hammer so it can crash into an Ork Rok and set up the next mission where your objective is to burninate the squigs so the Orks starve. Only to find a Grot squig herder, and a horde of very angry, very hungry attack squigs.

Notice how there was no mention of Nids or Eldar in any of that description of potential awesome. You don't need Tau or Chaos.

EDIT:
Ok, so say that the main antagonist faction was Chaos instead. You're given the task of entering a hive city and rooting out and killing a Khornate blood cult. You're restricted to killing cultists only, as the killing of innocents is what makes Khorne so strong. So you make your way into the depths of the hive, slaughtering cultists who are terrorizing and sacrificing civilians. It's a change of pace, in the cramped and festering depths of the hive. Ambush opportunities abound. Here is where cover is king.

Once you reach the cult's headquarters (next mission), your librarian reports a warp taint infesting the entire building. Inside, it's a charnel house. They're summoning a demon. A bloodthirster, to better reap the skulls of the innocent. You have to stop the ritual by killing the cultists before they can spill enough blood to summon it. Unfortunately, your very killing of the cultists is enough to finish the summoning and now you have a bloodthirster to send screaming back to the warp. Now the mechanic is to avoid death, and lure it back into the sacrificial circle so it can be bound by the librarian.

Only Orks or Only Chaos. You don't need both. If Relic does lots of factions then the sacrifice will inevitably be a sacrifice of fluff, design and character depth. It'll end up like firewarrior again (SM, IG, CSM) where your ownage FW just blasts his way through waves of cannon fodder, non fluffy, non developed, shallow design mechanic enemies. Or DoW2 or DoW Dark Crusade. There are many factions in 40k, but to do them justice, to do them right, means that really you can only do one of them correctly. Save the variety for RTS.

[Cuddles]

Why do people assume being heavily specialized means the game will be like wow? All it does is add variety to the characters.

Dynasty Warriors gets an almighty meh from me. The game is boring lacks any kind of story and gets repetitive quickly.


And the difference between a Tac marine and a Devastator is actually significant, as Tac marines aren't necessarily allowed to carry a heavy weapon. And in gameplay terms it's huge. A Tac would be able to carry a melee weapon as a backup, whereas a Devastator would have to club baddies with his oversized gun.

That really depends on how which angle you want the game to take. Base it on the fluff/board game and then your Tacs can use everything a Devastator can and more. But I see your point and having Tacs as a middle ground between super stabby and super shooty is a pretty good idea. However the 4th and final class may end up as a bit of an odd ball.

[Pocktio]

Yes MonMathias but from previous games I'm going to suspect Relic will go for as many races as they can but skimp on individual depth on each of them and hope the variety is found by having more races to fight.

[Bowkers]

Yes MonMathias but from previous games I'm going to suspect Relic will go for as many races as they can but skimp on individual depth on each of them and hope the variety is found by having more races to fight.

I disagree. Sure some of the previous games made by Relic have been what you say, and lacking, but you miss a key quote made by the dev at E3 which was that this game would be unlike any of the games that Relic had done up to that point. Now, my interpretation of this quote is that the game will be in depth, will have lots of uniqueness to it. Of course I could be wrong, but I don't think you can judge this game compared to previous Relic titles. Particularly after we've only seen two(well one with an added scene) trailer.

[Pocktio]

My interpretation of that is that the game is 3rd person instead of RTS. I'm just a cynic but I guess Relic might have listened and made some improvements to their usual fare. I'm going to remain cynical till they make more announcements.

[l337raceryo]

The problem with Orks is that they're the funny race.

It's kinda hard taking a game serious where you're playing a bunch of hard asses fighting a bunch of guys who points and laugh at you (by pointing I mean trying to kill you).

Yes Orks are the best race of WH:40K. But, IMO, there needs to be a Warhammer 40K: Nobs to give Orks the true representation that they deserve.

[Cuddles]

Orks add an extra level of entertainment that otherwise wouldn’t be there and if done correctly I think they can still achieve this without detracting from the seriousness of the game.

[Pocktio]

There was a few comedy Ork moments at the start of DoW2

'Wass dat in de sky'

:D

I hope they add a big surly mean Warlord and a jester-esque grot as the main Ork protagonists.

[Bi50N]

A few more impressions from our own report of the E3 showing...

I think you've all picked out most of the info there is to be had at this point, but let us know what you think:

http://www.thq.com/uk/features/show/7245

[Fightingfirst]

I cant wait for new info now. Hopefully that seen with the marines attack being blocked and him then blocking the orks attack back points to a reactive defence (i.e.star wars revenge of the sith jedi game play) rather than you block and have to start the attack all over again i.e. Lord of the rings game.

[Bowkers]

Thanks very much Bi50n, a quick question. Will the new information go directly onto the new website, or will they get released to news websites such as IGN?

[Bowkers]

Ok:

Interview with Johnathan Dowdesewell from about 2:33 into the interview. Two of my questions, I'm Edward Bowkett, were answered, so thought I would share it with you.

http://www.thq.com/uk/thqtv/index/?movieId=3245

[Taiko]

OP has been updated with E3 links.

[TheLoneKnight]

Yes Orks are the best race of WH:40K. But, IMO, there needs to be a Warhammer 40K: Nobs to give Orks the true representation that they deserve.
You know, this might actually be a worthwhile idea. Not a full game, I mean, but as a sort of bonus for when you've beaten the existing campaign: take control of an exiled warboss/nob who's determined to clobber his way up to the "boy wot offed 'im" and end up facing insane odds with gratuitous violence along the way.

Judging by the gameplay the Warboss already implemented has a fairly unique moveset; you could probably just tinker with that and add a couple options grabbed from the Space Marines to give it enough variety to be worthwhile.

[The Collector]

Hmm...

Does a deposed warboss lose mass, or does he get bigger in his rage to right wrongs?

A *true* game with the Orks in focus would be an interesting expansion. There's a lot that isn't really explored with that race, and certainly there is more to offer than just running at the enemy with clubs and painting your trukks red.

I suppose the levelling dynamic would be quite interesting with Orks, especially as they literally grow.

However, I think an RPG with an Inquisitor is another avenue worth pursuing. Senior Interrogator/Junior Inquisitor, acquires familiars and henchmen and equipment over time. There's your game...

[Kushan_Pilot]

I've always liked the idea of Eisenhorn as a game :) .

[MonMalthias]

A deposed warboss is a dead warboss. "Ova me dead body, ya gitz!" is probably the best phrase to describe a warboss's willingness to cede power. When a Nob challenges a warboss, they damn well fight to the death. The duel isn't ova until one ov dem boyz ain't getting up no more.

No. A better idea with Orks is instead to have an up and coming Nob get ambitious. He'd probably start as a shoota, work his way up to slugga, have a brief period of rebelliousness when he joins the Stormboyz, then become a Nob, and then become Warboss.

The game could also be used to explore the Ork Hierarchy and the unique biology that the Orks have. Hell it could even be used to further the Ork fluff, maybe even bring back the brainboyz.

@Bi5on's linky:
"We’re not announcing any details about other factions right now" repeats Jerry for the 10th time today, "But the 40k universe presents us with a rich tapestry of armies and characters, and we’re determined to make this game the definitive Warhammer 40,000 experience." - Jerry Edsall

This quote can be taken two ways. It's classic evasion-speak, but I'll bite anyway. On the one hand they say "rich tapestry of armies and characters", which implies multiple factions. On the other hand they're "determined to make this game the definitive Warhammer 40k experience". So they want to make a game that involves itself, that involves the player and immerses him/her in that universe. Cool.

If Relic has learned anything, anything at all from their own 40k games *DoW:Dark Crusade* and DoW2, then they would know that to be inclusive in terms of factions, believability of the story, hell the quality of the story has to be sacrificed. Kronus just so happens to be a Tomb World! The Tau have just rocked up for shits and giggles! Blood Ravens just so happen to have abominable relics stowed somewhere! No! No, no, no, no! I played that game in year 8 (14-15) and even I found myself hard pressed to suspend my disbelief. This coming from a person who has read trashy fantasy to pass the time.

Look at FireWarrior. I don't even need to justify my position with this one. IG, SM, CSM just so happen to rock up and require shooting in the face. Bad! Sure it isn't a Relic game, but it damn well is a good example of how NOT to write for a game.

If Relic is going to make a game, their first foray into the console, it better be a return to their former writing glories. Homeworld 1. DoW1. Even Homeworld 2's story immersed me, and that was despite frigates being turned into fragile ships fit only to die to protect the capitals.

40k: SM's campaign, plot, characters need to be developed beyond the cliched tropes that surround elite soldiery and the SM=Knights. How do SM speak, feel, fight? On and off the battlefield? The enemy has to become more than just a foe to hack in half with a chainsword, or shoot in the face with a bolter. The enemy has to be visceral, has to inspire hatred/other emotionality in the player. That means cutscenes or character exposition (or something more elegant) to show Ork psychology, physiology, combat doctrine. Hell they could just be comic relief all the way through, and just focus on the brutal cunning/cunning brutality of the Orks. Have a wyrdboy shout "GORK'LL GET 'EM" and a giant Gork Warp-boot come down to smush a line of guardsmen.

They have to justify the Orks coming to the world. Is it an Ork Rok? What drove them here? Maybe they were Ork spores from a prior uprising that just so happened to develop into a Waagh.

Either way, they'll have less work cut out for them, and more time left for them to develop the Orks, to develop the SM. If their focus is on 3-4 factions like Pocktio is suggesting, you can damn well expect to see a Dark Crusade plot, falling apart at the seams. You can expect to see Orks as just "Neaargh! Greenskins! Their stench fills the air!" and just left at that. You can expect Chaos as "Our corrupt brethren! Purge them with sword and fire!". Hell, Eldar could just rock up, destroy some infrastructure, then get killed for "Suffer not the witch to live". But they won't be Enemies. They'll be enemies. Someone to shoot. Someone to stab. You don't care for why. You'll just marvel at the pretty pretty gore and get bored after 10 missions. It's what happened for me at DoW2.

This is an RPG. Ok, an ARPG. Relic could be forgiven for skimping a little on story in an action game - their target audience being neo-Khornate cultists, baying for blood, may not appreciate something as cerebral as a "plot". But if they go the way of Dark Crusade, you can bet that the reviews coming in will say "well the combat was good but the writing was terrible" and "good not great" verdicts coming in everywhere, just like DoW2, which I felt was let down by a weak plot that failed to tie the missions together. It'll get 6s, 7s, 8s, but never 9s.

Guess what? Half that mark will be the reviewer's rose tinted goggles marvelling at the graphics and gore. Some of it will be gameplay. But all of the negative marking will come because of the story. Because the reviewer has not gotten into the plot. They've just killed their way through a game. Big woop. It'll be like an action movie's troubled sequel. Lots of 'splosions, not much justification for them. Even Michael Bay tries to put some explanation into his movies. The least Relic could do is do the same for their newest foray into the console market.

[TheLoneKnight]

By "deposed warboss" I was thinking more along the lines of a boss that got kicked off of a cliff or suffered some similar "fatal" removal from combat that he survived due to orkoid physiology and a disgruntled refusal to stay dead.

A boy/Nob working up the ranks would also be viable, but I'm thinking that this would be an extra mission, rather than a fully-featured campaign, since Relic is likely to focus on the Space Marine story far more heavily. In other words, I imagine it to be an excuse to have as much violence as possible in as short a time as they can manage in order to satiate the bloodthirsty bunch who won't be satisfied with merely competently removing excessive opposition in the main campaign.

[Cuddles]

Seconded.

An Orky campaign sounds ace in principle but in practice it would be little more than batter the hell out of everyone till you’re the boss.

I’m secretly hoping for a multiplayer vs mode where its Marines vs Orks and you can take on the role of the Orks and bash some umies!

[Robert Frazer]

There's also one comic strip, "Betta Da Warboss Ya Know!", which ran in Warhammer Monthly. There a Warboss is deposed by a rival and not killed (the usurper and his mob take advantage of him losing a leg in battle, and just beat him senseless and imprison him). The Warboss then has to be rescued by his loyal Gretchin all sneaky-devious-kunning, like. :)

Orks do have a kultur beyond the battlefield - they may be the "football hooligans" of the far future but not even Millwall supporters spend every waking moment rioting! ;)

[MonMalthias]

You know what? Why not have a Slugga feel rebellious, so he joins the highly regimented Stormboyz to learn how to fight right proppa? It'd be a change of pace from just killin. Then again it might be a terrible idea.

[Coey]

There's also the excellently insane Deff Skwardron about a squadron of Ork fighter pilots. You can read it here. (http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Deff%20Skwadron/deff_skwadron.htm)

[Carach]

still, has nobody noticed the blue firepower from the thq interview with the extended scenes?

thats definately not human or ork - only eldar or tau have such weaponry..seriously think the eldar are in the game too; nobody else want to look and comment? (tau cant believably be assaulting a forge world tbh..)

certainly more than just tyranids shown in the vid tbh..but cant quite make out the units because theyre behind a wall:(

anyway, personally i dislike the orks - dont find them serious enough for the universe tbh. theres better, more sinister factions that are underused in the wh40k games.

[Cuddles]

That’s the point of them Charach, they’re not supposed to be serious or sinister, just down right fun and entertaining :D

[Tempe]

Carach, You've never seen relic's take on Plasma weapons then I assume? Also Lasguns have been depicted as firing blue shots before.

[Fightingfirst]

The blue weaponry could be anything, you cant really judge which race is which from the colour of weaponry Carach in that particular scene it could just be anti air platforms.

[Bowkers]

Also, we have already discussed the possiblity of Eldar being in the game. Also with reference to the orks, they are an ideal race to do a combination move on. Eldar are slimy and acrobatic (like Russians) so the finishing combo could be a lot more difficult to do. Orks, whilst you are learning could be the masses which you learn the combos on, then progress onto the harder races.

[Tempe]

I don't think eldar would fit with the gameplay we've seen though. You simply won't be fighting hordes of Eldar unless they butcher canon to explain it. Tyranids sure, there's billions of them in anyinvasion. I think Chaos is more likely a foe, after all you see planetary bombardment shiwhc I don't think would be Imperial (As it is a Forge World so nuking it from orbit isn't a wise decision)

[Pocktio]

It's a Relic 40k game Eldar are going to be in it ¬_¬

[MonMalthias]

Well the planetary bombardment could just be orbital fire support. You don't need very much firepower to achieve orbital superiority against orks - All their fighters go wherever the Roks go - onto the planet. So they could just be lancing strategic locations to hold the Orks back from, say, an important staging ground for Imperial troops.

I would hate for Relic to put Eldar in. You can't butcher Eldar, there's too few of them. They'd melt back into the shadows if they take too much casualties. No. If they include Eldar, they butcher what Eldar are all about - avoiding attrition.

[Pocktio]

They couild make them work by only including them in cut-scenes and heavily scripted short fight scenes. Like the excellent chase scene in Dark Messiah, except you're chasing a.... ranger? or something through hive spire framework. Be great fun and a great way to show off the art.

[Mantaray]

Eldar are slimy and acrobatic (like Russians)
LOL as much as i resent this comment. it made me laugh.

however i do believe that unfortunatly there will be eldar involvement. exactly how unfortunate that is completly depends on how relic play the eldar card.
if they pull out a full house then it would make for a pretty good plot. but if they pull an ace-king... well.. what a dissapointment that will have been

butchering orks? hell yeah. must must must be done.
chaos? sure thing. as long as the cultists die well to my boltgun i will be a happy bunny.

stun mechanic? do be serious. if a bolt hits you, it asplode. its AP5! i want to see guardmen and other such targets asplode unless there wearing carapace armour...

chaos space marines? i want these guys to be a DECENT fight. not like they where in firewarrior *shiver*

To be fair. when firewarrior came out, i did apreciate that there was a posibility to use a boltgun. but come on! random firewarrior verses whole tactical squad on the bridge? my backside... [/rant]

if they get the balance right, that will be good. but they need to decide what balance there going for... fluff balance or tabletop balance.

the big problem with relic games i find, is they have normaly gone with the 'none of the above' balance... and designed thier own balance system to suit the game. while i guess thats thier choise. it makes all us people who play table top or read the books unable to relate to the game... we will end up buying it because 'hey, its a 40k game right?' and half the time we will eb shouting at the screen all like 'i just took out 10 chaos marines solo! do be serius!!!'

[Xan]

I would like Eldar to be in, but not as a main enemy. Put them in competitive multiplayer and maybe a bonus mini-campaign. If they're in the main campaign, they could work as end-game boss fights. It could even be written in without butchering canon too much, and Relic's favorite theme of "it's all an Eldar conspiracy" would work fine.

[Fightingfirst]

You could just make eldar incredibly hard to get a hit past their guard in CC and hard to hit at range. This would mean there could be few numbers but still represent a challenge to a player.

[l337raceryo]

It should be like this.

Eldar should be on the 'Oh shit' side of the 'east to hard' scale. Yeah, they're a bunch of skinny elves, but elves are the ninjas of the fantasy setting.

[Cuddles]

Elder would be a good and different challange to the overwhelming numbers Orks present.

Instead you'd have a small hard hitting elite force, not many of them to kill - but by golly do they take some killing!

[Paladin]

Did you guys ever play the old, original AvP on the Jaguar?

There were only a few Predators in the SP campaign, and they would always come at you invisibly when you weren't expecting it.

You could have the Eldar in the game that way. Have them be an occasional annoying menace rather than something you're slaughtering whole companies of.

[Mithie]

Did you guys ever play the old, original AvP on the Jaguar?

There were only a few Predators in the SP campaign, and they would always come at you invisibly when you weren't expecting it.

Or the pred fights in AVP2. There were only two of them, but oh man, they were tense.

[Jivebologna]

I forsee a gruff heavy-weapons/devastator, a young and brash assault marine burning to prove himself, a perfect soldier who follows orders to the letter, and an implacable sergeant with an unconventional command style. Heroics ensues.

Hopefully, Relic won't play the tight-lipped about game again, promising to blow our minds with all the awesome, only to tout out the same stuff we've seen in the trailers over and over again, slowly revealing that there isn't anything deeper to the game than what you've guessed at. They already have a three-race montage, I'm ready to be totally shocked when we find out what the fourth race is.

[Malarky]

And i fail to see how this looks like a MMO.

It looks like Diablo. I just thought if they could work out the classes and their roles in a small party it could help to figure out something bigger.

[coldplay]

I forsee a gruff heavy-weapons/devastator, a young and brash assault marine burning to prove himself, a perfect soldier who follows orders to the letter, and an implacable sergeant with an unconventional command style. Heroics ensues.


We already made DOW2...

:)

[Taiko]

Well I guess we can now assume, or hope depending on your viewpoint, that W40K:SM will be a fresh start in terms of the story.

[edbop]

it's going to be exactly what they say it is, a hack n slash console game. yes you maybe able to swap between characters and upgrade then as you go on. you will not however be playing as orks or eldar, eldar will not feature in anything but a cut scene.

[Cuddles]

Edbop, you really need to tell the rest of us where your finding your information, clearly your google fu much surpasses my own :D

[Recaso]

*Erherm* (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/warhammer40kmmo/index.html?tag=result;title;1)

[Carach]

colenal temp: sure it could be plasma weapons but theres way too much of it to be human

[Mithie]

Warhammer 40k: Nobs

FUND IT


A *true* game with the Orks in focus would be an interesting expansion. There's a lot that isn't really explored with that race, and certainly there is more to offer than just running at the enemy with clubs and painting your trukks red.

You'd think so, but no, there really isn't anything more.

[simmo]

wow my post was deleted?

[Taiko]

@ Edbop: As it stands no real in-depth gameplay has been confirmed. As such, even the proposition that W40K:SM is going to be a generic 'hack n slash' console game is purely speculation. That the SP game will be based on the SM is self-evident from the title. I would also speculate that if there is a co-op, SM will be the race. In terms of playing other races, we can only speculate that there may be a multiplayer component to the game, which could include other races. As far as other races within the SP game, Orks are confirmed. I would like to speculate that there will be other races. For me one of the more intriguing aspects of what we know so far is that part of the story will involve the SM squad searching for the reason as to why the Orks have invaded the Forge World. This may lead to the revealing of another race as part of the story. As it stands, this is all good healthy speculation :D

@ Rebornhell: The link is to a different game.

[Fightingfirst]

SP game will be based on the SM is self-evident from the title

It would be a big surprise if it wasn't :lol:

[Jingoku]

I hope we get some more news soon. There isn't really much to talk about, only speculation. But I'm pretty impressed so far by what little they've shown. Every action scene being in-game is truly astounding and the gameplay looks really fast and fluid. Can't wait for the reveal of more details.

[dumbnick]

The extended trailer (4:11) is on youtube now.

Here they are:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvjICeeoPAU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQoFwy1eu94

[Taiko]

Dang, screw SW:TOR that was awesome. This is going to be one hell of a game! Looks like MP is a go and from what I can work out Co-Op as well. Thanks for the links I'll put them in the OP.

1. Make sure to check out the Titan in the extended trailer it is FIRING on the Orks ^^

2. Looks like with melee you may get a damage bonus after so many kills, the sword started glowing blue when he was whaling into the mob of orks.

3. ASM packs/hammer combo look like they will be AoE option.

4. Didn't see any spell casting so it might just be ranged/melee. I guess we will find out. I wonder if the Apoth will be a class for co-op/mp?

5. Talking of MP, I wonder if they will have different classes? Considering console MP is fairly restricted in terms of player numbers I'm not sure if that would work.

[Pocktio]

They should really get spells in there. I mean Librarian! Come on! Would add a whole new dimension to the game and add great replayability.

[Fire and Steel]

Looks like with melee you may get a damage bonus after so many kills, the sword started glowing blue when he was whaling into the mob of orks.

I thought that was just a Power Sword? Not to say that feature wouldnt make sense.

[Paladin]

If the trailer is anything to go by, it looks like the four character classes will be Sergeant, Tac, Devastator, and Assault.

[Supernaut]

Well that extended trailer was cool.

It was definitely a power sword.

[Coey]

The game looks like everything you could want from a Space Marine game, but it still seems so mediocre.

[thesilent1]

While watching that nice little Titan doing its thing, did anyone happen to notice the Carnifex having some fun on the left side?

[Jivebologna]

I thought the carnifex was dying there. Looked like he got bracketed by the titan a couple of times before slumping over.

[thesilent1]

You sure? *checks the footage again*

Oh yeah, didn't realize he took one nice shot from it before going down. I was too busy looking at the dreadnought slowly making its way up to it.

Man, how epic would it be if you could pilot one and have a nice one-on-one with a Carnifex?

[Jingoku]

I just love this. Totally nonchalantly kicking an Ork down.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4694/w40ksm05.gif (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/w40ksm05.gif/)

I hope we can do that in the game, sort of a counter Move. I just want to kick down whoever is dumb enough to charge at me.

[Malarky]

Might not matter over all but that iron gob surely did not help matters.

[DeafMute]

VOTE ULTRAS FOR A CURBSTOMPINGLY GOOD TIME

[Sinogrim]

They should really get spells in there. I mean Librarian! Come on! Would add a whole new dimension to the game and add great replayability.

I for one am happy I didn't see any hocus pocus crap yet. Every ARPG I played, the magic unbalances the entire game to the point that it just seems useless to go with something non magical.

[Jingoku]

Useless? Maybe. Still incredibly fun to stomp down an Ork or smash an hammer into their faces? Hell yes. In games I always stick to the melee guys.

[Sinogrim]

As do I jingoku, but then when you compare your killcount to a guy who can kill 50 enemies by pressing 1 button... It just seems unfair.

[Jingoku]

A spell casters AoE effects are always a dread in Multiplayer. But I think normal melee characters will have some decent AoE effects too. Well, those equipped with Force Hammers at least.

[DeafMute]

Well its a relic game so we know its going to be balanced.

-Thumb up-

[Jingoku]

Relic, the reason why I have so much faith in this game.

[Sinogrim]

I have faith in this.... Aslong as I don't see or hear any necrons ^^.

[Jingoku]

I always had a soft spot for those Terminator-like bots.

[JammedDeath]

at 4.25 of the extended video..is that a carnifex on the left, been killed by the titan?

[CorsairX]

anyone else does not like the times when the game takes the controller from you to show you the best angles how you chop up the bad guys?
it was bad in the old trailer and its bad now.
it brakes game-flow and i brakes the player orientation in the situation

everything other then that looks sweeeeet

[Jingoku]

I don't really mind the angle changes, since the camera seems to return right back to the way it was before, so there shouldn't be an orientation problem. And it gives you that oomph factor that makes the attacks seem much more powerful and impressive. It also doesn't appear game-flow breaking, because the actions are executed like normal, just shown in a different angle.

[Mad Onion]

Looking good so far. It also looks very fit for consoles, but unfortunately I don't own one (only a PC). I'm a bit disappointed that I won't be able to give it a go.

I am not getting a console!

[Anthonace]

On the subject of the kill camera:

I don't like that it's being used when chopping up minor orks, the fact that it completely cuts to a new angle is disorenting, and it's not very satisfying when you are no longer the one doing the chopping. However, i think it's fine to have such things show up when killing a larger enemy like a nob or warboss.

[Fire and Steel]

I figured that it was only being done for the trailer, to show off the game. At least I was hoping so. Honestly, if the whole game did that I'd get tired of it.

Changing angles is fine but I think it should be used very, very sparingly.

[Dark Angel N00b]

The whole changing of angles thing is fine by me, they do it all the time in GOW2 when your killing downed enemies and you dont even notice the change after a while, barely affects gameplay at all.

[Paladin]

Maybe they'll do it like Mark of Kri, where you have several different "finishers", that depend on which combination of maneuvers you use on the enemy in the first place. That would be pretty sweet actually. If you ever played Mark of Kri, you'll know what I mean.

[gorays]

I just love this. Totally nonchalantly kicking an Ork down.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4694/w40ksm05.gif (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/w40ksm05.gif/)

I hope we can do that in the game, sort of a counter Move. I just want to kick down whoever is dumb enough to charge at me.

Hey Jingoku, can you create another one of those? You see in the video a SM chopping an Orkz head off, could you make an image out of that? Thanks. :D

[Paladin]

If you haven't played Mark of Kri, check out this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCtifBOk5cg), and skip to about 2:49 (The first bit is cinematics, which are awesome, but probably not relevant to this conversation). The gameplay bits start off with a bunch of stealth kills, but eventually move on to combat finishers. Stop watching at 5:29 or so if you don't want to know how the game ends though (Although the final sequence is kind of sweet ;) )

What you need to keep in mind while watching it, is that in that game, each of those finishers (Including the stealth kills, actually), was totally under your control, in that you had to perform combos to get them, and the cooler finishers generally required fairly complicated ones. Even the stealth kills, you had to press a specific button to get each kill.

If they go that route, I think it would be pretty awesome (Actually Mark of Kri was pretty awesome in general, and if you haven't played it, you should).

[Jingoku]

Ork decapitation, as requested.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2922/w40ksm07.gif (http://img522.imageshack.us/i/w40ksm07.gif/)

And a fun little extra.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5825/w40ksm06.gif (http://img522.imageshack.us/i/w40ksm06.gif/)

[CorsairX]

i think god of war 1 and 2 did the whole camera change thing in a good way.
you could beat all the enemies without any camera change, or you could initiate a minigame by grabbing an enemy and then: "push the right buttons to do nasty things"
you could still do amazing normal attacks and there was not a moment i wished for a better angle.
i dont think its something bad, but if any short combo will initiate an angle change it could get really boring after a while and the fun factor of those super attacks would quickly go down.

[Colonel_Darren]

CorsairX You have to remember this is in Engine footage, but not necessarily gameplay footage.

[Fire and Steel]

The whole changing of angles thing is fine by me, they do it all the time in GOW2 when your killing downed enemies and you dont even notice the change after a while, barely affects gameplay at all.

I didnt even think of that. It pretty much does become just a part of the game. I suppose if handled right it would work just fine in Space Marine too.

[Bowkers]

The whole changing of angles thing is fine by me, they do it all the time in GOW2 when your killing downed enemies and you dont even notice the change after a while, barely affects gameplay at all.

I tend to side with this, in the angle changing debate as well. In GoW2 when you are chainsawing Locusts in half, it doesn't affect the game that drastically, and personally, I think angle changes, particularly at 'boss' units or rather, sections, the final killing blow, would be a good thing for the game. I see the other side's argument as well, don't get me wrong, it's just from the games that I've seen with this in, I feel it doesn't affect, to the point where you hardly notice it most of the time. Then again, I do play far too many games with this in...

I just think it would be a fine way to finish an awesome combo, or a boss fight.

[The Collector]

I suppose a system akin to DoW's finishing moves might be alright. The unit's invulnerable during the animation and such...I wonder if it's exploitable.

[Jingoku]

What is it you all want to see in Multiplayer, if there is one. And there better be one. We've been discussing this a little on the Dawn of War 2 board.

This is from the other Thread.

1. Should you be able to select specific wargear, or should it be class-based
2. Should there be a squad system, or just free for all
3. What game modes do you want
4. Army Painter?
5. Should online include multiple races?
6. If there are multiple online races, how should they be balanced so that they still feel like they are supposed to (space marines are epically elite, orks are savage, imps are cannon fodder, etc)?
7. Any other ideas please post

My takes on it.

1. Maybe both. Characters could be class based, giving them different stats for strength, health, armor, etc, and each class still could have class-specific wargear. Maybe you could also earn new Wargear and access to advanced Wargear by earning ranks in your online battles. I think it would be a nice feature to be able to separate the Veterans from the newcomers.

2. Both. There should be a lot of game options in Multiplayer. Either free for all deathmatch or Squad based games like capture the flag.

3. Deathmatch, Last man standing, capture the flag, hold checkpoint, survival, etc, etc, basically every possible Multiplayer option that you'd have in a FPS.

4. Definitely. I'd want to be able to pick different chapters or paint my own Armor.

5. Only those that are in the game. I would definitely want to see the Orks as a playable race in Multiplayer. Get some variety in the game.

6. For Multiplayer purposes I'd probably try to get the races as even as possible. If it's too W40K fluff accurate, people might complain that Space Marines can take damage too well because of their heavy armor.

One idea, character caps. Let's say Eldar or Imperial Guards are in the game. If you have a game hosted Imperial Guards Vs Space Marines, 20 players could join the Imperial Guards, while only 10 players could join Space Marines.

Yet another idea, special units. Similar to Star Wars: Battlefront, after a certain kill count you get the right to play a special class. For the Imperial Guards, this could be the Vindicare Assassin. That would probably even odds, being able to simply Snipe a Space Marine.

7. Not really much I can think of that I haven't already mentioned under point 3. The one thing I'd definitely want to see in the game is 4 player Co-op.


Or you know what, starting from now on we should annoy Relic till they make a W40K game, Battlefront style. Giant maps, multiple classes, dozens of players and every vehicle imaginable to take control of. You know you want it.

[Taiko]

"anyone else does not like the times when the game takes the controller from you to show you the best angles how you chop up the bad guys?"

I hope the camera angles are solely for effect in the trailer and either won't be in-game or at least be able to disable in-game.

"One idea, character caps. Let's say Eldar or Imperial Guards are in the game. If you have a game hosted Imperial Guards Vs Space Marines, 20 players could join the Imperial Guards, while only 10 players could join Space Marines."

MP will be limited to the numbers console can handle. ATM its 10 on heavily rendered games such as GoW 2, to 16 on less graphic intensive games such as RF:G. PS3 is pushing the boundaries with MAG (240 players) however, if you read the fine print the game breaks down to units of eight, so you still have a 16 player max limit.

I'd say that Relic will make the standard game modes as you have already mentioned, however, they might come up with something completely different. I would personally like to see different classes/races in the MP, but it would be it would be interesting to see how this would contribute towards a balanced game.

[Jingoku]

Ok, that's disappointing. I don't play many online Multiplayer games and just assumed the Ps3 and 360 were capable of much more than 16 max players. Doesn't Resistance 2 allow like 40 players in an online match? Or does that also have one of those fine prints?

[Taiko]

I'm not that sure TBH. I think the PS3 is capable of handling more online players than the 360, but thats just an assumption on my part. From what I can work out, there is a direct relation to the number of players and the graphics of the game. I don't play that much online due to lag, so there might be another console gamer who has a better understanding.

[Sinogrim]

Resistance has the capability for 64 players online in 1 game. An upcoming game for PS3 called MAG can support up to 256 players. Atleast, that's what Sony says.

But yes, it'll probably be limited to the 360 capacities. A multiplatform game is usually programmed for 360 and then simply ported to PS3, cause the dev's are too lazy to learn how to properly program on the PS3 and it costs too much money to make it differently for 2 platforms.

[Shuma]

I don't think it has anything to do with Lazyness, seriously, why does everyone always claims that the Developers are lazy for x thing? The Architecture of the PS3 is a mess, many developers have said so, including a Left 4 Dead dev.

[Jingoku]

Now 64 players, that's a decent number. I just wish we would be able to simulate large scale battles. With 20-30 players on each side, just imagine how crazy the battlefield would be. Too bad that probably won't happen.

But depending on how good this game turns out, what would you all think of a game similar to Star Wars: Battlefront? I always thought W40K would be perfect for that type of game, or even something like MAG. It's a no brainer really.

[Sinogrim]

I don't think it has anything to do with Lazyness, seriously, why does everyone always claims that the Developers are lazy for x thing? The Architecture of the PS3 is a mess, many developers have said so, including a Left 4 Dead dev.

Hideo Kojima stated in an interview to OPM Benelux that there's no problem with the architecture of the PS3. He even went so far as to say that developers who complain about the architecture of the PS3, are too lazy to learn it's structure and work with it.

So, I trust Hideo Kojima's words more then Valve, cause Hideo managed to put one of the most amazing games of this generation on the PS3, and PS3 alone. And, the fact that it has been almost 2 years since we got another episode of Half life 2, doesn't come in Valve's favor for me.

[Jingoku]

Hasn't the architecture for the PS2 also been difficult? The PS3 seems definitly to be more difficult to program for, but the results can show themselves when you bother to actually deal with it.

[Sinogrim]

Don't know. But, apparently, a lot simpler then the PS3.

[Fightingfirst]

Why don't they just do it like Star wars battlefront. There are loads of NPC bots in multi player with humans playing alongside them. Give a sense of a large scale battle?

Also, ive never got why the 360 and PS3 don't allow gamers to play against each other. i.e. PS3 and Xbox gamers playing on the same server, makes sense with increasingly multiplatform games. Its not like it would detract from sales, but I suppose they would have to reconfigure the whole xbox live thing etc.

[Sinogrim]

Cause both consoles use different code and run on different servers. Besides, PSN users don't pay for their online services, Xbox live users do.

[Jingoku]

I really wonder how Multiplayer could be well balanced with Multiple races and trying to make it faithful to the W40K fluff.

Do you think it could even be decently balanced with races like the Imperial Guards? Or should we only stick to Chaos Marines, Space Marines and Orks? Your opinions.

[Sinogrim]

Imperial guard would be a mess to balance. Cause there would HAVE to be more players on the IG side (cause they're like canonfodder). And well, since they're cannonfodder, not a lot of people will want to play them cause scoring a kill would be rare. :p

[Taiko]

Without trying to steer this off topic into a 360/PS3 debate the consoles use two different online engines, so I'd doubt that MS would want to compromise its market share. Having said that, in relation to GAMEPLAY, while I would like to think that large player MP servers would be an interesting addition, could the alternative be more along the traditional lines of other APRGS/MMO and be small team based P (player) Vs P (player).

I know that Champions Online is a MMO for console, so logically it would mean that consoles can support a large number of players, however, I think they have PvP arenas. If this is the case then there seems to be a kernal of hope in speculating that it way very well have a class system to MP, rather than the standard grunts of Halo/GoW 2 where your class is basically predetermined and defined by what weapons you pick up during the game.

In terms of balance, I think that the 'horde' races would be a lot harder to implement, unless you were looking at some of the higher ranks: commissar, pysker, vindi for IG etc. that would give decent buffs to the regular IG. Come to think of it there are a lot of very cool ways to go about making a W40k MP a totally different experience to your standard console MP, especially taking the traditional APRG PvP concept and expanding it. Making it balanced would be another story.

[Jingoku]

What if the for Imperial Guards, they'd focus on vehicles and artillery? Like Sentinels, Hellhounds, Basilisks and the Baneblade. Imperial Guards could also be allowed to call in Air Strikes. For infantry, let's not forget that the Imperial Guard have the Ogryns.

[Bowkers]

My ideas on the subject regarding Imperial Guard. I don't think, in my opinion, that they would be put into the game. They would get, as Wafflegod has pointed out, mauled to pieces, by the Tyranids and the Orks. If there is a multiplayer component to the game, which as I've pointed out earlier in the thread, then people would much prefer to be a Space Marine, or the other armies.

Even if you have a 'force' that is dominant in vehicles and artillery, I feel this wouldn't help make people choose the Imperial Guard over the Space Marine. I mean, I certainly wouldn't like to have got, (NB this is all hypothetical) into an MP game and man an artillery piece for the duration of the game. that would be as much fun as an Imperial Guardsman getting mauled to pieces. Sure the vehicle element might be 'fun' but even that can be prone to disaster.

No, in my belief, I just can't see the understanding behind adding another massed army in the game. Maybe a few select units, but certainly not playable. But that's just my opinion.

[Jingoku]

Fair enough, what are the opinions on races like Necron on Tau? Both probably won't be featured in the game, just discussing if they could be done in a MP game. I only have my knowledge on W40K from the Dawn of War games and I haven't played them in a while.

Are Tau more sturdy than the Imperial Guard? How would Necrons play? I would definitely love to go crazy on the battlefield as a Tau Commander.

[zakublazer]

I hope there can be some unlockable special character to play as, from the other races i mean.

How cool would it be to play as a Wraith stalking the battlefield, or a mandrake. Tau commander in Battlesuit would be awesome, as well as a Necron lord, or Even a Necron destroyer.

[Shuma]

A Necron lord would be beyond awesome in this kind of game, kinda like playing the Force Unleashed, but with a crazy homicidal skull shaped machine from the future.

[Jingoku]

If there's a decent Multiplayer attached, they could definitely keep the game alive for a good while with DLC. Though I'd prefer if they'd make a new game with the sole focus being on Multiplayer.

[Bowkers]

Ok. I've been replaying the scene where we see the Carnifex and Titan. The Titan doesn't take the Carnifex down. It's firing at something on the ground to the right of the Carnifex. But that's not what grabbed my attention. Immediatly after the part where the Space Marine plants the Ultramarine banner, it pans to what appears to be Orks versus Tyranids fighting. (You can't really see the two armies fighting, merely, some Orks attacking the Carnifex,a Dreadnaught lumbering up to the Carnifex, the Titan shooting at what appears to be massed units. Yet, from these pile of massed units, come two or three what appears to be plasma weaponry fire. I don't know enough about Warhammer to confirm what it is, or what it isn't, but my questions that arose from re watching the same clip about fifteen times, yes I am so cool, is that, I wasn't aware that Orks had Plasma weapons, or the tyranids, and this appeared to be a Space Marine type plasma weapon. But the Space Marines weren't fighting down there, they were surveying the carnage. So what fired those shots? I've been reading up on Forge Worlds, just to know the difference between a 'normal' world and a 'Forge World'. What came up was that essentially, Forge Worlds are run by the Adeptus Mechanicus, the cult that worships the God of Machine, I think, and this quote in particular stood out:


Based on most forge worlds are the Titan Legions; these are supported by legions of Skitarii, the Mechanicus's cybernetically-enhanced soldiers, who also serve as the forge worlds' military forces.

These could be in the game to help you? I have no idea how 'fluffy' Relic are going to go, but in my research as well, which is much better than sleep, I found two planets that were on the edge of the Ork system. I don't know how Relic do the planet scenario, whether they create an entirely new planet, or pick one that has already been in the many books regarding the subject. But the two planets are, Accatran and Metalica. One of the planet is in 'close proximity' to the Eye of Terror, thus giving the idea of potential chaos being there.

But my questions if people could ponder on are:

-What is shooting those plasma shots in the scene where we see the Carnifex, Titan etc?

-What does Relic do, regarding the creation of a storyline, do they, go for something completely new, creating a new planet etc, or do they take a planet based on the books that have been written on the universe?

Thanks for reading my ramble.