The bastards are going to far!

[zenogias]

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2847979,00.html (gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2847979,00.html)

I'm not exactly happy with the level of violence in the gaming industry, but I'm thinking the folks in the proud state of Georgia are a little batty, if you ask me (and I should know, seeing as I live in the Atlanta area).

On side note: Gamespot is way too add-happy. You have to go through adds now before the main page will load!

[F.A.]

bleh thats just stupid. The only thing that they will achive is another incease in piracy.

[SquidDNA]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/01/29/town.satan/index.html

[The Collector]

Evil. Evil.

If you were conservative enough you could label football games as violent, tackling someone to the ground could be reinterpreted to suit your views, and then goodbye to sports games.

I can get more violence by watching the news! Sometimes after shootings they show the body under a blanket, with a arm peeping out with a small puddle of blood.

No matter what they try to do, violence will find a way to get to us.

[oneredpanther]

hmmm.
Gun violence vs. Computer Games.

It was all downhill from space invaders....

If Pong had stuck around a bit, then maybe instead a right to bear arms, all US citizens would have to attend compulsory pingpong lessons at age 11.

Perhaps.

[SajuukCor]

If you don't know the difference between reality and fantasy you shouldn't be able to watch the basic channels on TV let alone play a video game.

There was one law where parents MUST be within ten feet of their child in arcades or be fined. It was deemed unconstitutional :devil:

BTW: Madden 2002 (GCN), Best football game, ever.

[oneredpanther]

Best football game, ever

well, that's not exactly saying much is it?
:D

[ionfish]

Originally posted by SajuukCor
If you don't know the difference between reality and fantasy you shouldn't be able to watch the basic channels on TV let alone play a video game.Sajuuk, please present us with definitive proof that there is a difference between fantasy and reality before you start making comments like this.

Note: reality is perception. When computer games become so good that they appear "real", how will you tell the difference? And is there any difference at all anyway?

- ion -

[SajuukCor]

I'm sorry. As punishment I plan to hope in my Interceptor, circle the sun a couple times and warn myself not to post that post that I posted ;)

[Ben Tusi]

Quoted from CNN.com
Risher said the events of September 11 inspired her to pursue the proclamation, which the Town Commission supports.

Why would terrorists target a fishing town, which would not harm the US at all if it were to be attacked? Terrorists only blow up high-level targets, like major Government buildings and Military bases. Towns that base their economy from primary resources are not to the same level as a military base. Something that Risher fears would happen wouldn't exactly be a kick in the crotch for America.

I just don't get why Risher doesn't understand that easy-to-follow concept.

[oneredpanther]

wtf ion,

please present us with definitive proof that there is a difference between fantasy and reality

For your average human being, and using computer games vs. reality as an example then we can conclude the following bleedin' obvious things:

1) Reality happened
2) Fantasy didn't.

You must be mentally impaired to not discern between the two.

Yes, computer games might eventually get good enough to blur the line. But right now they don't even come close.

If you honestly can't discern between fantasy and reality then:
1) You will be in an institution.
2) If not, you will be soon.
3) You take too many drugs for your own mental welbeing. see 1).

[AlphaPrimate]

maybe they are think if the future where virtual reality will be gaming. But it will be so real that you can't tell the difference since you are the main person in the game. You will have to make judgements on what your instincts are.

Its a long shot if thats what they are thinking but virtual reality gaming is a lot closer then most people think

[Camelot One]

After a hard day dealing with all the stupid people, coming home and violently killing a few people in Quake or Operation Flashpoint is what keeps me from going insane. I say make the games MORE realistic, so they are an alternative means to blow off steam.

[Thorn]

Doesnt bother me at all, I'm not a minor...

[x-crispy]

Legislation against videogames with objectionable content gives me powerful violent urges.

Where is my glock?

[SajuukCor]

Originally posted by Thorn
Doesnt bother me at all, I'm not a minor...

Neither am I; it's the principle of it all :nod:

[Mac_Bug]

Suppose I make a new game where it comes with bots you frag - featuring faces of your family and your friends.

Suppose I make a game and distribute cartoons of underaged children naked and engaged in sexual activities.

Suppose I drive a virtual plane into a virtual WTC every evening.

Or maybe, how's about a game where you rape girls?

How come kids are banned from watching porn?

Why aren't we blaming parents when kids smoke and do drugs, while screaming for legalization of such things?

[zenogias]

How about this:

Let's make a game in which each character is individually modeled to exact anatomical detail. When you shoot them, they spill accurately modeled blood. When you cut them across the belly, their intestines spill on the ground.

Combine it with tech that can reproduce smells so you can get the scent of their blood and internal organs exposed to to the air.

Combine it with taste-reproducing technology (I'm sure there's a way) so you can taste the arterial spray in the air.

Add in a body suit that can reproduce -- via advanced force-feedback and shape-memory fibers -- physical sensations, particularly the lovely flee of fresh, hot blood drenching your skin after the kill.

Have state-of-the-art surround sound so you can catch every last decibel of the character's scream, the screams being sound captures of actual death screams recorded in third-world hellholes and torture chamrbers worldwide.

With VR technology and the body suit, plus an extensive arsenal of highly realistic weapons, you have complete control over how you mutilate the targets.

The best part about it: the VR body suit lets you feel pain, so every time you die you get a little taste of complete agony. Sure, it hurts, but when you hear your opponent screaming in pain after your frag him in a deathmatch, you'll feel the same rush of satisfaction only professional killers know.

Besides, the pain is an excuse to get better; plus, eventually you'll get used to it, maybe even like it.

Yes, this is the future of gaming: FPS 2100

How delightfully cyberpunk . . .
.
.
.
.
.
.
FYI, the above was sarcasm.

[El Russo]

mac_bug, could i have a copy?

[BunsenHoneydew]

Unfortunately. They are also among many of the states that don't discuss
evolution very much in school, according to the latest Scientific American....

There's a reason why 'Deliverance' took place in Georgia!

Bunsen

[Thorn]

Originally posted by SajuukCor


Neither am I; it's the principle of it all :nod:

Bah, screw the principle, they can fend for themselves... :D

[sajuukar]

AH!

Zeno... careful with that toothbrush... Getting a little creepy...

[Frish]

just when i thought i would never wind up supporting the ACLU . . . . . . . . . JESUS!!!! that woman is gonna take over the US and make baptist religious orgy bible beater the mother from water boy the compulsory national religion. some people need to be shot.



and wtf? video games =illegal???!!! god, why does Georgia exist?

[Nova]

Just when you thought Florida was safe, everything goes so horribly wrong. The fact that for the first time in my life I agree with something the ACLU says proves that the mayor of the town deserves a good beating.

I can also now safley place Georgia in the "States that don't deserve roads or schools" catigory.

[zenogias]

I can also now safley place Georgia in the "States that don't deserve roads or schools" catigory.

Hey now, don't stereotype: us Jawjans ain't all ign'ant rednecks, jess the wuns that live outside thuh 'lanta area. ;)

[StarHawk]

And if someone gets arrested for bying a game for their kid they'll sue and so would I in fact I'd sue the state of Georgia for simply passing that law and violating my rites afterall when "The State" can dictate what I can and can NOT play its like Comunism next thing you know those dumbass Georgians would make it so that you must put the toilet paper over and not under on the role.

And as for that freak who declares Satan illegal I have one thing to say to her "Woob Woob woob wob Niek Niek Niek Wise guy eh!" She just wants her tiny little pissy town to get seen by the states that actually matter like Virginia, California, Washington and others.:D People like her should be stuck in insane assylums.

I mean good greif I am a Christian but I aint a freakin wierdo like that "woman". I mean holy crap some people are just dumb asses that deserve to be kicked out of office huh.

[Walker]

Originally posted by StarHawk
its like Comunism

No, it's not.

[Tygre]

Suppose I drive a virtual plane into a virtual WTC every evening.

I did that on FS2000 once...I don't know why, actually.


Suppose I make a new game where it comes with bots you frag - featuring faces of your family and your friends.

I'm not sure, but Rare was planning to do that with Perfect Dark (But a Georgian woman protested it so they took it out) and the developers I think managed to incorporate that into Quake III Arena...


The best part about it: the VR body suit lets you feel pain, so every time you die you get a little taste of complete agony.

SWEET!!! :smash:

I don't play violent games all that much...maybe I'll play one of those zombie shooting games in an arcade or Quake II every once in a while, and I find the excessive blood and unrealistic situations with "realistic violence" funny... What needs to be incorporated into games is punishment for actions... such as if you complete the objective while killing as few enemies as possible, only disabling and disarming them, you'll get a better result.

[ADUN]

Time for my words..
If games were ever banned in any country, that is like banning movies, which is pretty stupid. The government is better off banning movies than games anyways, since the video game industry is much larger than the game industry. If an entertainment as importent as games were banned, that country will probable collapse under all the roits that will happen.

I also heard about a month ago on a CNN news article on how ''games WILL turn you kids into violent criminals'', It was even announced with with a picture of an evil looking clown with guns up in the corner of the screen. I was soo pissed when they said that.

As I see it, trying to ban video games is like trying to ban sex, it will never happen.

[SajuukCor]

...a picture of an evil looking clown with guns...

Sweet Tooth!

Anyway, we humans (well, some of us) are hunter/killers by nature, and video games help us fill the need for feed rather than real life. Every once and a while I have to destroy hundred of TIE fighters in Rogue Leader, waste bad guys in FPSs or take down hordes of zombies in Resident Evil. It fills my void :ninja:

And movies are MUCH worse than vid games, because they look real, and played by real people.

[StarHawk]

Yea no kidding I mean I play Delta Force it aint that bloddy but its violent I mean it so far hasnt turned me into a violent criminal that wants... Hey what are you looking at you @$*%^@( get your butt over here SOn of a *@6 wheres my gun I am going to kill you you mother *@$@... Anyway so far I am perfectly normal even after playing violent games:D .

And I mean come on that dumb show Buffy is more violent and sexual then most games I've seen and it aint getting bitched about by Georgians.

In my oppinion if you dont want to play it DONT YOU IDIOT and if you dont want your kids to play it MAKE THEIR PARENTS DECIDE WHAT THEY CAN AND CAN NOT! GET NOT THE STATE! I mean its the parents job to decide what morals they want their kids to do and what games they want their kids to play so if the parents dont want their kid to get the game their kid aint getting the game I dont need some political fat cat to tell me what my family can and can NOT play.

[zenogias]

Speaking from experience, I can say video games supported my desire to murder my classmates at school.

I heard about that Half Life mod a kid was making of his school. Five years ago, I would have leaped upon that and used it to plot out the bloodshed I'd wreak upon my classmates. If I'd had someone to back me up, I would have spent many an hour gleefully slaughtering my classmates in preparation for the real thing.

I'm so glad I developed a sense of compassion, though, because going to jail/dying because the people in my high school were idiots would have been a bad thing.

[blackjack]

The bill states that "violent crime is a serious and persistent problem in our society, especially among our youth," and it connects this observation to video games in the following excerpt: "As confirmed by current scientific data, the repeated exposure to graphic violence and participation in violent interactive games may contribute to violent behavior by our youth and desensitizes them to acts of violence." No specific sources for the scientific data are listed in the bill.

gg Georgia. it's such a wonderful idea to pull supposedly "scientific" information out of your ass.

[Maverick_3058]

Ranks up there with the "pi=3" incident, no? :<

[zenogias]

pi = 3 incident?

WTF?

I suck rotten eggs at math and even I know about good ol' pi!

[Maverick_3058]

Some rural state(MidWestern-ish) tried to pass legislation that would define pi as equalling 3 in all of the math books they used, the dolts.

[Mac_Bug]

Ready for Omnislash?


Anyway, we humans (well, some of us) are hunter/killers by nature, and video games help us fill the need for feed rather than real life. Every once and a while I have to destroy hundred of TIE fighters in Rogue Leader, waste bad guys in FPSs or take down hordes of zombies in Resident Evil.

The problem though is not any of us present (at least I hope).

Let's face it, the vast majority of the people on Earth are good. Take terrorists, gee, what percentage do they make up?

Yet such a big impact they make on the rest of us.

One of the problems I have with violent video games (I do plenty btw) is the fact that it for the most part it goes exactly in the opposite direction of what society is teaching the kids. Sensitivity to racism for example, is much higher today than ever before (you know it when people take offense at remarks made against me when I just shrug it off). We (as a whole and specificly, though I am officially considered 'adult' now, the teenagers) have been constantly bombarded with 'positive' messages. Peer pressure, don't drink and drive, how to have safe sex (well there's one thing they gave up on trying to stop), don't do drugs, and finally, violence = doesn't solve anything.

I think we'd all like to agree that attempting at abolishing violence is futile, but then again, so is peace on Earth. Somethings in life I believe are worth striving for.

Anyway, back on topic. Game designers talk about 'rewards'. One of many points bought up about HW or certain RPG/RTS etc is their complexity and the lack of reward. Often the feel of frustration surround gamers who spend 2 hours just to see that victory screen, but more often than not, fail and have to start over again. With some of these violent games, it becames an artificial thrill to seek, with instant rewards. It's what sells games, but at the same time it associates these violent actions with positive rewards.

Lately I've grown more appreciative of school (and at the same time more appreciative of not doing homework, a shame I did it all when it didn't matter and now I'm all worn out). It's interesting to hear some people moan when it comes to essay writing, yet had the teacher strike topics such as 'ways to kill someone', we all would be perfectly happy to give him some eye openers.

Hollywood has long been criticized for their happy endings, and take Superman, the perfect example of violence solving all the problems. Kids play with toy guns, and play mock battles. Everyone strives for that glory, and the buzzword 'honor'. I often wonder how veterans of wars would think to see their grandsons dreaming of becoming soldiers to fight and die in a 'glorious' battle.

CNN has been many butt of jokes. Accusation run wild of the media hyping things up. Yet you have to realize that these people are in the business of making you watch TV. If people did not want to watch it, it wouldn't be on TV. Yes, then you could argue that the media is merely a reflection of our society, and gee, nobody said society was perfect.

I have no point.


Anyway so far I am perfectly normal even after playing violent games .


Well, think of the guy down in Georgia with that crematory.

You know what kind of people are out there.


In my oppinion if you dont want to play it DONT YOU IDIOT and if you dont want your kids to play it MAKE THEIR PARENTS DECIDE WHAT THEY CAN AND CAN NOT!

You bring up precisely my point - parents cannot be relied on.

When Columbine happened, you can blame the media, blame the parents, blame society, blame the victims.

Far too late.

Why is there social services, why is there domestic violence How many teens at this moment are running away from home, and how many others are thinking of killing themselves or someone else.

Since most of you here are still teenagers or certainly had the experience. Whose parents among us can stop us from looking at porn sites, smoke weed or drink beer?

Call them all bad parents, but I haven't met one who willingly listens to whatever their parents say and do it voluntarily.

Should've could've would've taught them better when they were young.

Too little, too late.

It's easy to blame. Columbine was because of Doom, because of parents, because of victims, because of society in general.

That is not the issue, fixing them is.

I've probably seen more simulated violence than the average, but I have no urge to kill someone (well, I do have, but I have control, too much sometimes). It's funny with that case on trial right now, the mother killing her 5 children. The prosecution claimed it was all planned out and she was herself when it was commited.

Since when did killing your 5 children make you 'normal' or 'sane'?

Not guilty by reason of insanity. Look at her, she killed 5 of her own children!

Well, that kinda takes the steam out of the trial.

So how does parents stop their kids from smoking? Besides talking to their kids and bombard them with messages, buying cigarettes is illegal for minors in just about everywhere around this piece of rock.

So what about alcohol?

Shouldn't parents get to decide what to let their sons and daughters to be exposed to in these cases?

If these laws governing video games won't work just as it didn't work for cigarettes or beer, why do we still have the rule for cigarettes and beer?

Living in a democratic society and being a responsible parent, to mean that would mean the right to take it to the legislature and vote on a bill that would help parents on getting their kids on the right track. I mean, we all scream 'its the parents'. Well, now they're doing something about it through the law, and we don't like it, do we?

Sometime ago a group of people got together and decided murder was wrong. Then that set of morals got reflected in laws. Only by reaching a certain age will you be able to drive, to vote, to be considered for some jobs (heh) or to be able to do certain things. These are not exact measures of maturity level, butwithout it there would be no other way to implement it.

I don't mind, I won't be affected by this bill in Georgia or implemented anywhere. I believe that those who are determined still will get their hands on these games (harhar, remember Medal of Honor striving for realism while not featuring blood?), and it will just open another market for kids to buy them from a shop down the corner and take business away from legit software stores with fancy fronts. It may very well become a new form of rebellion. But hey, so is doing drugs and drinking alcohol and then get themselves into shit, or worse.

Think of it this way, if your parents support you playing violent games, they'll just go and buy it for you.

See, no big deal.


I mean its the parents job to decide what morals they want their kids to do and what games they want their kids to play so if the parents dont want their kid to get the game their kid aint getting the game I dont need some political fat cat to tell me what my family can and can NOT play.

Just like I said, this gives the power (though very much of an illusion at that, but never the less if it worked for one kid, it may well be worth it) to parents. Now they can sleep knowing that you can't get your dirty fingers on games they don't want you to have (just like they know they own their home and not the bank).

Like it or not, it's democratic society, don't like the law, you can always vote to change it. Hey, nobody tells me what to do at all! Not.


I'm so glad I developed a sense of compassion, though, because going to jail/dying because the people in my high school were idiots would have been a bad thing.

I'm glad deterrents are working.


gg Georgia. it's such a wonderful idea to pull supposedly "scientific" information out of your ass.

Off top of my head BJ.

What is the definition of youth?

In black and white it means one under age of voting.

In truth it's more of a maturity measurement than anything else.

We learn by repetition. Now that's something that doesn't need me to pull any proof for you to know.

It is a fact that kids copy stuff that goes on TV (WWF, remember kids, don't do this at home, but just remember it's cool to kick each other's ass).

I'd quote you some studies, but wtf that was 2 year ago in English debate. The repeated violence on TV DOES desensitize. BUt then again, Pokemon cards promote violence and gambling too among kids. THere was even one case of stabbing over them some year ago.

Just as much as some of you argue that 'violence is part of human nature!', you accept it and embrace it. Violence is everywhere in society, true, that is a point you have to get across to kids, but we see it so often in an attempt to illustrate life, it doesn't startle us anymore, the shock value is gone. Apathy may be the word, or maybe it's just because I'm an idiot with less than 100 IQ. War has been part of our history, and will be for hte forseenable future. That has never stopped us to refuse to accept it and to strive for peace.

It's not easy being a parent. how do you get a kid to respect your authority without violence, how do you punish a kid while ensuring they don't in turn spend all their time trying to get around your 'groundings'. How do you get a kid to shut up?

It's easy to say, well, if you odn't have answers, then you are not ready to be a parent.

See how many of you will ever be ready for it.

It is a fact too that everyday there are new parents who aren't ready for their kids.

Blame the parents, it sure is easier to pass the buck and tell someoen else to do something, just as it is easy to blame the media and wash your own hand in it.

BTW pi= 4

[zenogias]

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Imagine that the above "image" is a cigarette lighter that I'm waving -- like a rock concert goer -- in response to the beauty of Mac_Bug's argument.

[Frish]

woah, you actually READ through all that . . . . . well, i guess il jump on the bandwagon

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weeeeee . . . . you go mac bug (whatever you said)

(hehe, my lighters bigger)

[Tygre]

*edit: wtf my pictures! grr

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That was excellently written Mac_Bug...your IQ is clearly quite a bit above 100. I find nothing I disagree with...and I even read the whole thing. Cool.

[Daggerhawk]

A well put,well thought out,and well written peice of work Mac!
::applauds::

[Fatcat]

Damn, I haven't posted here in a long time.


Since most of you here are still teenagers or certainly had the experience. Whose parents among us can stop us from looking at porn sites, smoke weed or drink beer?

The parent who keeps his kids tied up in the basement at gunpoint until they are 21 suceeds.. :D

Sarcasm aside, maybe we need to abandon the mentality that we must keep our kids away from these things. Maybe we should let our kids try em - it sure saves a lot of trouble in between. If the kid gets addicted and OD's or something, hey, it's his life, and it's his free will. Maybe that's just my twisted viewpoint on things, but it sure would be easier just to set everything out in the open. Forbidden things have a certain attraction that normal things don't...


You bring up precisely my point - parents cannot be relied on.

So, whom can we rely on?

These questions are not necessarily in direct reply to what Mac said, I just enjoy jumping into discussions. ;)

[zenogias]

If the kid gets addicted and OD's or something, hey, it's his life, and it's his free will Well imagine that it's your brother/sister/cousin/nephew/whatever young-is relative you're fond off.

This is all a tricky issue and there are no clear-cut answers. Narcotics have been repeatedly proven to be unhealthy, but kids try them anyway knowing full well what the consquences are. Some studies and personal experiences say that exposure to violence is bad for kids, but they seek it out anyway.

Try too hard, and the kids is destroyed. Try too little and the kid is detroyed. Try just the right amount and the kids is destroyed.

There's only one thing I can say:

It's all fucked up.

[Mac_Bug]

Well thanks for the compliments, but that was just a brain dump, sometimes I think i write better in one session than spending damn 8 hours on essays due next week ( just finished). Of course then as you can see it is in bits and pieces, stuff just pop in my head out of nowhere.

I think I need to undergo psychiatric evaluation, maybe I qualify for some nefty syndroms talking to myself all the time and all...

Then that's something I can brag....

Uh... yeah...

On topic of letting them try it...

Life is hard. Some parents are your worse nightmare. Sure some of those guys and gals crowding in the designated smoking area might look like rejects (well I donno compared to geek rejects?) of society, most of them probably has a story to tell. It only makes me feel slightly better knowing everyone else has bigger problem than I do, even though it may not seem that way.

We can all blame how a kid turn out on their parents.

The parents can blame how their kid turned out on society.

Society can blame human nature.

Well, there is always blaming God, who blames man for doing it to himself.

I know I'm sitting on my ass and is getting fat around the waist (heh shit I may have to change pant size in another year), but I'm still sitting here on my ass.

Maybe I'm too hard on myself (my self confidence is about zelch), but the way I see it I'm about the most imperfect guy there is (at least the others are organized). But you know, now I begin to comprehend addiction (to computers hehe) and how strong it could be, I realize we don't all make the best choices all the time, even if we know it to be.... damaging... to say the least.

Some argue that if we let kids do these 'forbidden' things, they woudl stop doing it because it will no longer be rebelling. We can legalize drugs, we can legalize alcohol, we can legalize sex with minors. It doesn't matter.

You think a 16 year old doesn't know the harms of smoking or doing dope?

They know.

Maybe its just me, but I just see these stories about 'inspired' and 'motivated' to do somethign with your life as hollywood fairytales. Good try on those motivation speakers I've had over the years visiting to schools though.

As for parenting, well...

I'll just say that domestic violence in my family has had its history. yet I believe I turn out to be a okay guy. I don't know where I got this sense of right and wrong, hell I don't even remember the lesson from last week in school.

Goddamn it I worry too much. I couldn't get a girl friend even if I wanted to, and here I am talking about parenting and how to be a good parent.

Here's something, if everyone did their part, the world'd be a better place.

There will always be those who doesn't, but hey, I'll know whether this will all end soon enough, so I'm not rushing it.

So do yours.

:angel: