Auto cover needs to be switched off.

[MasterBlaster]

With the damage increase basicly across the board, units finding cover instead of shooting=dead units and lost battle.

Expert players are quite capable of telling a unit where to go in cover.

It needs a switch so units can have it turned off.

I am sick of situations such as.

Techmarine plasma marktarget an enemy melee hero+overcharge, only to have the techmarine not shoot but run forwards TOWARDS THE MELEE hero because there is some cover half a screen away.
Infact this is the norm for the techmarine.


Units with flamers, refusing to attack a enemy squad instead seeking cover, and the cover being outside of the flamers range so they stay there getting shot without shooting back.

Telling your missile tac to target a vehicle, only to have him decide that run for COVER first while the vehicle such as a dread maybe meleeing your other units and you just need one more missile to finish it off, instead you lost a squad before the marine decides to shoot.

[Goobers]

Don't like it, don't play it. Simple as that.

I like the feel it gives to the game and helps narrow the gap between us poor little casuals and 'expert' players.


Expert players also happen to make up around 1% of the player base and therefore don't count in the grand scheme of things, especially since this game was purposely dumbed down to make it more accessable to the casual audience. The other 99% are either A: Casuals or B: people who play single player with/without friends and like to watch things dance around and blow stuff up.



If Squads are close enough to dive into cover and suddenly be in melee with the dread, they are in countercharge range and are classed as being in melee with it anyway. Diving for cover isn't the problem here and just because your running away and the dread isn't swinging doesn't mean your not in melee.


Then there is the point that it takes just as long to dive into cover, as it does for the troops to react and aim their weapons outside of cover. Your not losing time and your request is only going out of the way to make the game less enjoyable for the rest of us.

[MasterBlaster]

can you reread my post because you make assumptions by combing parts of my diffrent points into one.

WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THE MISSILE TACS BEING IN MELEE OR NEAR THE DREAD?

they can be at maxium range and DECIDE to go for cover.

The techmarine is currently worthless unless your an "expert" player and know that he wont function as you expect and counter.

Pluss the current beta changes make spacemarines 100% more complicated and fiddly.
with a far less forgiving play.

and lastly as for taking just as long to aim a weapon as to dive for cover?

The techmarine can spend 5-6 seconds DIVING for cover, long enough for the enemy melee hero to make it into melee and thats it.. game over MR techmarine hit retreat button do not pass go do not collect 200 req.

[Chris]

Don't like it, don't play it. Simple as that.

No u.

Relic have unfortunately stated that they do not intend to make cover-seeking a toggle ability. Some cop-out answer about it putting players at a disadvantage or similar BS. I believe CoH had auto-cover toggle, so I find it difficult to see why DoW 2 can't have it.

[BudgetMessiah]

I don't think I could have crafted a more clueless response than Goobers' if I tried. Missile tacs and dreads? Casuals over experienced players? If the game is broken, just don't play it?

Personally, I don't enjoy having to fight the interface as well as my opponent. There has to be a better way...maybe limit how far a squad will travel to get into cover?

[BurnedToast]

I seem to recall someone from relic saying that they can't easily disable auto-cover finding because of the way the engine is programmed or something. It's possible I am misremembering and they were talking about a hold fire stance, though.

FWIW I didn't play CoH very much (WW2 games bore me) but I don't remember any sort of option to turn the auto cover seeking off.

and finally I think big skill gaps between pros and noobs is a good thing - it means the game has depth and thus staying power. If you can spam whatever looks cool and then just attack move around the map and do almost as good as a pro player that's a huge negative for the game IMO.

[Skyline Pete]

I believe CoH had auto-cover toggle, so I find it difficult to see why DoW 2 can't have it.

It has never had this. Ever.


As for moving into cover, I do that first, then target the enemy.

[BudgetMessiah]

And what about scenarios where you'd rather not be in cover, such as when facing flamers? Cover multiplies certain types of damage, so it's actually beneficial to fight in the open from time to time. Why can't I just order my guys to stand and shoot? I hit stop, but the moment I focus them on a target, they dive right back into cover like lemmings running headlong into the ocean.

[Chris]

It has never had this. Ever.


As for moving into cover, I do that first, then target the enemy.

That's odd because I've read comments from multiple people who claim you can turn it off in CoH.

[Zephris]

I've seen issues arising from this where in one instance my Tech Marine rather then fighting was running back and fourth between two areas trying to get into cover and utterly failing to do so. (It was on the steps, by the victory point on that 3v3 map with the arena in it.)

And I have to agree the Auto find cover feature is not needed, if you can't be bothered to manually put your units in cover then your other micro is probably equally as bad.

[Supernaut]

That's odd because I've read comments from multiple people who claim you can turn it off in CoH.They're lying. I've played CoH since it came out and you cannot turn it off. Nor has it actually made the game any more difficult.

I'm currently not having any problems with the auto-cover but that's probably because of my experience from CoH.

[Malachi]

I fully agree. Auto cover should be possible to turn off, along with a global switch (at HQ?) to make every unit you produce start with auto-cover off.

Alternatively, auto cover could stay always on, but work only if the units are idle for a longer time, and not in combat!

[Troubleshooter]

Yep, I think its run its course... it doesn't make many players happy. Casuals should have a way to activate it somehow though.

[Malachi]

I don't think even casual players like it, Trouble. I'm a casual myself.

The only people, I imagine, that would deny others (and themselves) the option to turn it off are total newbies who hope the AI will do the job for them, or people who dislike all changes by principle.

It's the same as people being against melee/ranged stances being introduced.

Oh wait, isn't it time for another "we need stances" thread? Relic will be gathering beta feedback, so... :ebil:

[Codex]

malachi, the reason why i think stances aren't necessary is because you have so few units. what's wrong with just hitting z-click? with 20 units, yes, stances are necessary. but when you're only using 6 or 7, 2 of which are in the wrong stance, how hard can it be to force melee?

[BowlingHanshees]

Forcing ranged is impossible.

[Codex]

sadly, the only way to force ranged is by placing units in cover, and they will not have an aggressive stance.

[Malachi]

It's hard if it's on a unit you're not paying attention to atm, and you want it to act at least a little sensible on it's own.

Also, as Bowling said, you can't force ranged unless you resort to mashing the stop button, which is annoying and not really a good game design feature.

Let me ask the other way around: How would having stances be bad for the game in any way?

[edit:] Unfortunately, cover is not always avialable, and doesn't affect vehicles.

[konfeta]

Standard Relic response is "We want to lower the gap between higher and lower skill players."

More detailed Relic response is "There are pathing/coding/unit A.I. issues."

The second response makes sense, but I would really, really like a more detailed explanation than that.

[Facelessone]

This could be fixed in the way you said or......units should prioritize your command first,not seek cover.They could seek cover when idle.

[-Ghost-]

I'd hardly call cover use really an "expert" skill. It's a cover based game, so it's really a basic tactic that you've got to have down. It is frustrating to have my units dance around looking for a spot to hunker down instead of actually killing enemy units.

[WhiteDeVile]

When I am teleporting my Warp Spiders close to the enemy, I expect them to immediatly start shooting, but instead, they run for nearby cover, WASTING the whole effort.

This is extremely frustrating.

[Aquila]

Relic have unfortunately stated that they do not intend to make cover-seeking a toggle ability. Some cop-out answer about it putting players at a disadvantage or similar BS.
The actual reasoning was that the auto cover is built very deep into the code and unit AI. It simply isn't possible to make it 'toggleable' (great word) without really screwing with the squad AI. The amount of resources that would have to be devoted to such a feature could not be justified. The advantage/disadvantage was a straw-man argument thrown out by people who had no idea what they were talking about.

Auto cover toggling is a silly solution though. All you really want is a stand ground stance, right? To make sure they stand in one spot and don't move. That would be a heck of alot easier to implement than toggleation.

Personally, I like auto cover. I've found that alot of the scenarios described really don't pan out in reality. People make a big deal out of losing half a second of DPS, but cover is a pretty big deal and matters alot more than those guys give it credit. There are certainly some problems though - missile tacs running instead of shooting, although very rare because missiles don't require setup, can waste valuable time. Scanarios like a squad running for cover on the opposite side of the screen simply don't happen. But I don't think this issue is anywhere close to as big of a deal as its made out to be.


With the damage increase basicly across the board, units finding cover instead of shooting=dead units and lost battle.
Which damage increase are you referring to, anyway? I think this may be a perceived change as opposed to a real change. In any case, being in cover may help mitigate that extra damage you're worried about.

[MasterBlaster]

svedishfish you can enable plasma overcharge, and the techmarine can run for getting to cover for the ENTIRE duration.
I would say having a skill completely not function due to a unit seeking cover is broken.

[Hirmetrium]

The cover seeking range needs significant reduction. Short jumps I can accept, but some of the running to a poin halfway across the screen... no.

[Eternal Thought]

That's a good idea Hirmetrium.
Not that I know how the auto-cover is programmed or related to the engine of the game, but if it's possible to reduce the range of the cover-seeking, then maybe they can reduce it to zero, thus effectively turning auto-cover off.

[rb2610]

Maybe forced stand ground could be implemented as a power for some units or with certain upgrades, like Space Marine squads as long as they have seargant and a banner for him or whatever, and Nids if they have a synapse beastie nearby, etc..

[Carl]

That's odd because I've read comments from multiple people who claim you can turn it off in CoH.

Nope, but in CoH autocover is a lot better.

One thing i'm finding is even if i put a squad in cover before an enemy gets to me, it will typiclly then dance around the peice of cover before firing.

Also cover was more prevalant and larger in size of each individual peice and models where smaller.

All that meant was that units didn't have to move much to get fully into cover and once in they tended not to move around, they just shot at the enemy. DoWII isn't seing this happen.

[MonMalthias]

I think it's more of an AI problem than anything else. If CoH proves anything, it's that auto-cover works...if you set the auto-seek distance low enough. Troops in CoH usually stay out in the open until they move within a "logical" distance to seek cover, say, about the distance between riflemen in dispersed formation. Click them near a fence and they'll stick to it. Click a little further away and they'll not seek the fence for cover.

This is what's wrong with the infantry AI at the moment. Troops seem to auto-seek cover from miles away (an exaggeration) and often do it at times that seem illogical (i.e. when a vehicle is driving towards the cover to crush it, or seeking cover when trying to kite melee). The solution is to reduce the seek range and increase the cohesiveness of the squad so it doesn't disperse as much. I've seen Guardians stick themselves to 3 (!) separate pieces of cover so their dispersal winds up being extremely large.