View Full Version : Beta Carnifex.
3rd Jul 09, 6:41 AM
OK, i understand that the old carnifex was overpowered, it was tier 3, Required a huge amount of resources to build but it was worth it because it could turn the tide on a battle which looked as if it was all over.
But now, its in tier 2, and its pathetic. it can be shot down by a small group of enemies, and it no longer stays alive long enough to even attempt to run away, it doesent have a retreat option, so if you send him in with a group of units and he is left, he cant get away, so thats all the resources for less than half of what it could usualy do, the screamer-killer, was disappointing, its weak, fragile, and usefull for about 10 seconds in a fight before they realise that its the one which can be nuked to death in 30 seconds, the carnifex was the end game weapon of the tyranids and now its worthless. i cant even take out an eldar Tall Walker / strider on its own, it gets minced by it in hand to hand, and thats ridiculous. :puppy: please give them some more power, its not worth the resources for what they contribute to a fight :(
3rd Jul 09, 7:05 AM
welcome to the wonderfulworld of everyone elses walker.
that is to say, it doesnt beat everything all the time everyday and twice as much on fridays and sundays.
It can die... :P
3rd Jul 09, 7:06 AM
Lmao, that was a good one MasterBlaster.
Entirely true, as well.
3rd Jul 09, 7:16 AM
How exactly was the Carnifex changed apart from it being T2, melee only, and having less health regeneration? I must have missed it in the patch notes.
If it's significantly weaker (losing to a WL 1 on 1? Really?), but it's cost stayed the same, there could be a problem.
Didn't have the opportunity to face one in the beta yet.
3rd Jul 09, 7:19 AM
they do acutllay generally lose to otherwalkers, but they get range upgrades and dont lose anymelee effectiveness due to it
if they face a dread they lose
if they have evenom cannon and face a dread they win due to the ranged damage by the time the dread makes it to melee.
3rd Jul 09, 7:34 AM
Dont worry dude,your proposals will get ignored. because the balance "Pros" here are too clever with what they think.
The carnifex is not worth its name now but people will like that jsut i like will like having SM get slaughtered with melee.
it should have more health since it cant be Repaired liek other walkers.
Oh and nerf venerable please,it is too strong.
3rd Jul 09, 7:35 AM
Wait, you mean Screamer-Killer, right? What about the normal, tier 2 melee Fex?
[edit:] Ninja'd, this was to MasterBlaster.
3rd Jul 09, 8:00 AM
I dont play nids or take to much notice of the changes so I was talking about how ive seen it in game.
If Venom cannon fexes are a entirely diffrent unit then normal fexes maybe screwed a little to much.
3rd Jul 09, 8:08 AM
They separated the Carnifex into two different tiers. In Tier 2 you can get a regular old carnifex. Once you get to Tier 3, you can upgrade that regular 'fex into a Thornback. Additionally for another 50 requisition and I think 25 more power, you can now purchase the Tier 3 Screamer-Killer that starts off armed with a fleshborer and can be upgraded to a venom cannon. They do die rather quickly in comparison to how they used to be and three won't stand to being shot up like they used to. In addition, only with the Thornback upgrade can you now get ripper swarms as they spawn from the 'fex.
3rd Jul 09, 8:15 AM
Are the Fexes still as expensive as in 1.3 though?
3rd Jul 09, 8:18 AM
500/125 if I'm not mistaken. HP looks the same, but even with thornback damage is... Unimpressive. They are slow to walk and even slower to turn with often is the cause that enemy walker will smack him few times for free.
3rd Jul 09, 8:41 AM
550/125 for the regular 'fex, 600/150 for the Screamer/Killer in Tier 3 sans upgrade to venom cannon which is like 100/40 or something along those lines.
3rd Jul 09, 9:00 AM
I dont know any numbers now but the 1.3 VC fex didnt have the same melee as the nonupgraded fex.
On another note i have been having a hard time adjusting to the new fex. I think most people expect it to be the T3 ultimate weapon still and treat it as such when it has been changed to be more in line with the other races walkers. I think it still needs some tweaking though. I would like to see it at least on par with a dread. If it cant even take out a wraithlord thats pretty sad.
3rd Jul 09, 12:16 PM
For not just the Carnifex, but everything else as well: it seems a lot more weapons damage vehicles more now. Sluggas and Banshees seem to cut through Razorbacks if left unattended (I know Banshees are supposed to) and the Carnifex does seem a little UP. Also, I don't think it gets a regen at base either.
I can't believe I just said that, I was one who started the Carnifex OP because of regen and can't get damaged by small arms. Now it's too far the other way.
3rd Jul 09, 7:11 PM
i tried t2 fex vs ai and still had it at the end of the match, but when i played live i never used it.i kept gaunts and raveners and both warrior types and used brood nest(dont like i gotta pay to reinforce though). i dont like the fact that you have to get to t3 to power up the fex and its kinda stupid to put him out there without upgrades AND unsupported so i dont bother wasting the req. i think the devs should allow him to be upgraded when purchased, like before, or give him a lesser upgrade until t3.but in either case he shouldnt be easy to take down as he is now.
3rd Jul 09, 9:51 PM
cant believe im saying this but maybe he needs his energy droped to around 100 to match other walkers...
Screamer Killers are impossible to kill
one with venom cannon took out a upgraded pred
a plasma devastator
3 scouts that were repairing the predator
and my techmarine who had marked target and was using overcharge.
There armortype just doesnt take damage from anything.
it wasnt even at half health after going through all that.
4th Jul 09, 1:37 AM
^^ But unlike other tanks, it can't kite and it can be tied up in melee. Plus it's much more expensive.
4th Jul 09, 1:55 AM
Well it happens, it seems that theres no point in shooting the carnifex with most of the weapons, even those mounted on vehicles, cause well he is not a vehicle, duh.
The most effective way to kill a carnifex is to melee him to death with melee specialists, also im not sure about other races but Warp Spiders seem to deal decent damage to fexes.
Also thats fex's advantage his different armour type, yet still I'd like him to be a bit faster, its a creature, not a machine/construct, it should definetively move faster than any other walker unit.
4th Jul 09, 1:57 AM
Im sorry I play spacemarines
They dont get a dedicated melee unit.
Unless your fc and get assault terminators.
by using zeal
which you cant get
so as I said
I dont have a unit capable of killing fexes :P
4th Jul 09, 2:13 AM
Well it happens, it seems that theres no point in shooting the carnifex with most of the weapons, even those mounted on vehicles, cause well he is not a vehicle, duh.Yes he is. Large size, vehicle type armor, just like a Predator or Falcon. If it'll kill a metal vehicle, it'll kill the Carnifex too. Both Carnifexes have 900 HP though, which is the third highest HP in the game after the Venerable Dreadnought and Avatar.
4th Jul 09, 2:39 AM
I was a bit panicked when the Carnifex moved to T2 but it is now much more susceptible to anti-vehicle weaponry. I had no problems kiting and taking it down with a missile tac squad. A Dreadnought will also beat it in close combat, but not by much.
Screamer Killers on the other hand still shrug off missile fire and melta bombs. I suspect there must be another factor here other than armor type. They have the same HP but the Screamer Killer takes far less damage, just like the old Carnifex which could laugh at missile tacs.
4th Jul 09, 3:13 AM
Maybe the Screamer Killer still has the old Fex health regeneration? That way, he technically does take damage, but he outheals it on the fly.
4th Jul 09, 3:24 AM
Not according to DoW Database or DoW codex. There may be other factors like synapse, etc that I didn't realize were causing a different. I'll have to test it again tomorrow.
4th Jul 09, 9:16 AM
you wanna see healing?lol. put a techmarine near those relays beacons and watch the show
4th Jul 09, 11:08 AM
welcome to the wonderfulworld of everyone elses walker.
I lol whenever I read that. It's funny because it's true!
4th Jul 09, 12:54 PM
A T2 Carnifex is more expensive than any other walker and has no ranged attack or any other bonus (dread kill bonus, fast wraithlord movement, spammable as deff dreads), so they should clearly win any 1on1 CC encounter with everything there is in T2.
If something in that regard needs buffing then its rather the hp then the damage.
A Carnifex is slow and clumsy and should be the definition of tough. With the best counter beeing to avoid it, attacking it from the back or atleast an equal priced force or dedicated AV unit and not just some cheaper dreadnought.
I also think that the very different "witness reports", some say it dies too fast some say it doesn't take damage, come from synapse. Synapse aura improves the armor of units under its effect, if im not mistaken. Maybe this needs to be looked into or atleast made more transparent through tool tips or loading screen tips.
4th Jul 09, 1:04 PM
or any other bonus
You get synapse bonuses. Also, you have a healing aura. I disagree that a carnifex should win any encounter. That's simply a holdover from our perceptions of pre-beta Carnifex.
Speaking of which, why does a Dreadnought beat a Carnifex? The carnifex has 100 more HP and a more powerful attack. Further credence, I suppose, that there's another factor besides armor type that we have to take into consideration here.
4th Jul 09, 2:53 PM
Dreadnought Fists DPS 146.67
Scything Talons Crushing Claws Carnifex DPS 100
Scything Talons Carnifex DPS 150
Wraithsword DPS 125
Deff Dread Buzzsaw DPS 75
What do you know, it actually can outdamage DeffDread after upgrade. Wait, the Thornback makes it WEAKER?!
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