Orks in general, but mostly Sluggaz

[Vespire]

I've been doing 1v1's as Orks lately, just trying to get the rank 5 armors, wanna make me boyz look gud.

Winning just seems pretty effortless. Pre-patch I did a 1v1 as orks and got my shit kicked in, now it feels like I don't have to use my brains whatsoever. Now I'd like to think I've just gotten better since then, but I'm 99% sure that isn't the case.

Sluggas are extremely powerful in melee, especially with the burna. I rip hormagaunts apart without many losses, the only chance marines have is to shotgun blast me but once Im up close they're toast, and I haven't seen much of Eldar. Their Banshees seem to be able to hold their own, but it seems like they're pretty evenly matched, which to me seems wrong as they're 100 req more.

Not only are they that, they're pretty low-cost. Losses aren't devastating as they're cheap to reinforce, and they can survive most retreats. I can send out a bunch of squads alone all over the map and cap it easily, and they'll still be able to win or survive the fights they get into.

If I roll into tier 2 fast enough, I can field 2-3 Deff Dreads no problem. They are so cheap on energy and req it's ridiculous. Most of the time they haven't mustered up a lot of anti-tank and they just rip giant holes in their army. Other than the cost they're not too bad, though.

I have no comment on tier 3 because most of my games don't last that long :|

Maybe I just fought some bad players, or I'm just getting good, but its just not fun winning as them. When I do 2v2's as Eldar the wins are so much more rewarding.

tl;dr nerf orkz

[Pigletdude]

yeah your being FAR too hasty with your decisions, you just told me how sluggas fair against all enemy melee units, in Tier 1, which is true, sluggas do rock Tier 1, they always have, if anything sluggas tier 1 are a bit worse due to others races shooters getting buffs and their melee units also being buffed nicely. Your not excactly a high rank yet, and even when orks were much weaker I recall being pwnage at lower ranks because those games always turned out to be rather fast even when it was like patch 1.2 - the dark age of DoW 2 :D

[Vespire]

Alright, I'll keep playing a bit, might be a bit better at higher ranks, it's just right now it feels stupid easy. I'm fighting guys with higher-trueskill than mine by a good amount (not saying much probably considering I had a very bad start). Maybe I'm just too used to Eldar where tactics are a bit more important.

I'll wait for a couple more opinions and play a few more games, if more people think like you I'll delete this.

[Buguba]

This doesn't surprise me at all, frankly. Melee spam is very effective, and Orks have the best melee in the game for cost (IMO). What TS are you though?

Melee spam on with any race is actually pretty easy if you know how to press your advantage, and your opponent doesn't know how to deal with it well. The problem with countering melee spam though is that it requires power, and power is difficult to accumulate if your opponent is good at pressing his initial advantage and destroying generators.

Once you've got some power though, I can tell you for certain that melee spam is not unstoppable, sluggas, banshees, hormagaunts, or otherwise.

Basically though, I don't think this is independent to Orks in any fashion. I stand by what I've always thought should be done: make ranged units automatically begin with melee counters (Termagants start with crippling shot, Guardians start with FoF, Scouts start with shotguns, and Shootas start with a nerfed suppression ability). That, or do what FooF has suggested, which is force all races to start with a ranged unit rather than allowing Nids and Orks to start with melee units.

[Vespire]

I'm at a pretty low true-skill, I think about 7, but I've fought guys with a bit/a lot higher. Probably has something to do with it.

The thing is, I press my advantage with the melee, rip apart their main force, sometimes a hero and a half-sizes squad limps away, and then I'm free to dominate the map and take their gen farms while they reinforce and try to make a force big enough to fight me off. And once I get their gen-farm, I tech to tier 2, get deff dreads, and they're stuck. Maybe they should defend their gen-farms better? :/

I like your last suggestion though, hating this lack of FoF on my guardians.

[Boomstar]

Once you start facing good eldar you will lose 9 times out of 10. Nids seems fairly even from the little I've played vs them, SM 9 times out of 10 you will win.

Balance :cry: ....

[jcorqian]

Actually Sluggas were buffed more in the damage department relative to any ranged unit buffs, if I recall correctly. Therefore they are more effective than when in 1.3xx. Sluggas can now take on Tacs, whereas before it was foolish to even try.

[Melonplant]

Tankbustas are also pretty nasty. I used a rocket barrage on a predator (ya know, the t3 thing) and as soon as me boyz stopped launching them in the air, they fired off a volley at the front armor.

The landing rockets completely finished it off. Rocket barrage + single volley = dead tanks. I haven't even tried tankbustas against the flimsy eldar grav tanks, but a single tankbusta has filled my AV roles for several games.

God, before you could have 100 tank bustas and still get kited all day.

[Aokin]

I must be doing something wrong with Banshee 'spam' then, am I supposed to wait for the second squad before it becomes easy ?

the early Slugga mass is very difficult to respond to, so far all I really have is the making mistakes, not attacking power early or not microing the squads against mine. Even on the last point I'm still going to have to retreat..

I agree with your observations Vespire, early dominating strengths with a high possibility of power loss and map control, making for an earlier (assuming partial control is regained) tier 2 advantage. Orks are not unbeatable but I can only think any successes are to no small degree the result of Ork not playing to their full strengths.

[Frigidair44]

I'm at a pretty low true-skill, I think about 7, but I've fought guys with a bit/a lot higher. Probably has something to do with it.

No offense... wait till you get to the TS 28+ range (roughly where people start getting good). You'll find it extremely hard to melee your way though everything, and SM players will be quite wily with Scouts and TACs; Eldar players will kite the heck out of you, and Nidz will play the numbers game or eat squads with the Lictor Alpha.

Orks are much better then they were, they dominate tier 1, but they aren't as devastating as you might think.

[Wafflecopter]

On the sluggaz topic, I find sluggaz with the mek boy hero infuriatingly hard to play against as SM. Having a horde of four sluggaz running at you, the only real way of fighting back is with a HVB dev. Guess what? Mekboy is there, meleeing your dev and letting his swarm get close and personal with no hassle. Of course, I could sit on my ass and guard the HVB dev with my army, but then I give up map control. Two HVB devs, one behind the other? Too expensive, thats 500 req and 60 power right there.

(Although this is mainly a problem with the mek boy)

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Put the HBD further back, so that it's slightly outside max range of your tacs. Then fall back into the HBDs range as the sluggas get close. It's extremely unlikely that the mekboy will even be in position to jump-melee a HBD that far back, and with the sluggas suppressed at close range you can shoot them until they die from it.

And if your enemy went 4x melee squads, 2x suppression squads is NOT too expensive... buy, buy, buy! It doesn't even matter that it delays your T2 since 2 focus fire HBDs is effective AV.

[Killer Of Many]

Ive found out that mek boy electric armor is the end all be all of anti melee. I seriously last game was fighting a very stubborn ork, who killed one of my slugga squads and was pushing me back into my base. I moved out and set my mek boy up and this guy had 4 slugga boy squads pumped out. They charged my mek boy, I turned on the armor and ended up killing all 4 squads entirely, making me belt out a huge LOL while only losing 100 hp even with his warboss close in tow who was suppressed by shoota boyz. I use it to megalol effects against tyranids[3 times ag Horms make me smile] and squishy eldar too, which are a bit harder because they knock him down making him not able to teleport back.

But seriously does any one notice this too? I am TS 30 2v2 and 29 3v3 and the electric armor just makes melee obsolete, even if he micros to attack my shootas or surrounds my sluggas I tele in and let the pain start. I almost feel bad, and with deff gun I can slow em suppressed and when they reach me flick on the juice and things burn to a crisp

[OVBlueGhost]

Electric armor is totally totally IMBA in my view, I made a thread about it and all the pro's on here said basically 'we don't play Ork and I haven't had it used on me'.

But yeah, because it's AOE DPS it absolutely devours nid (8 model) and ork (5-6 model) squads. If you get good with it try this:

1) Get a mele engagement that would otherwise be roughly equal.
2) DO NOT TURN ON ELEC ARMOUR.
3) Just when if you didn't turn it on you'd lose the fight, trigger the armor to swing the fight in your favor.
4) If they manage to hit retreat teleport into their retreat path and run along side them all the while electifying them and vs nid almost certainly wiping the squad.
5) Laugh like a maniac.

[craft-star]

Electric armor is totally totally IMBA in my view, I made a thread about it and all the pro's on here said basically 'we don't play Ork and I haven't had it used on me'.

But yeah, because it's AOE DPS it absolutely devours nid (8 model) and ork (5-6 model) squads. If you get good with it try this:

1) Get a mele engagement that would otherwise be roughly equal.
2) DO NOT TURN ON ELEC ARMOUR.
3) Just when if you didn't turn it on you'd lose the fight, trigger the armor to swing the fight in your favor.
4) If they manage to hit retreat teleport into their retreat path and run along side them all the while electifying them and vs nid almost certainly wiping the squad.
5) Laugh like a maniac.

Its more like a generic imbalance on the side of the nids eg UPness.

[OVBlueGhost]

I don't think so craft star, it occurs because of 8 model squads, and electric armor being high DPS AND on a platform which can tele. Things like the lictors AOE and Purification Vials have similar horrific damage capability vs nids but you can avoid them.

[Buguba]

Electric armor is totally totally IMBA in my view, I made a thread about it and all the pro's on here said basically 'we don't play Ork and I haven't had it used on me'.

But yeah, because it's AOE DPS it absolutely devours nid (8 model) and ork (5-6 model) squads.

I totally agree with you, BlueGhost. It chews up Eldar too because of their low HP.

It's ridiculous because there's nothing you can do to counter it either. The mekboy just teleports directly into your squads and starts BBQing them with impunity. Sure, he'll get focus fired, but only after he's crisped half your army.

I've been surprised that I haven't seen more people using it, actually. Come to think of it, I've only seen a couple mek boys. Does he still have the set up + teleport trick?

[Frigidair44]

You don't see many mekboys electric armor because they are going for his suppression weapon out of the gate after the general upgrades to platform based weapons.

130 x 30 power is EXTREMELY cheap for on of those.

I still never get them because it kills the mekboy's mobility. Electric armor is quite devastating, and I leaning towards IMBA. I haven't played with it enough to see its power. Based on forums though I'd say its pretty messy.

[Killer Of Many]

Well I wasn't crazy then, it's just no one has used it against me nor have I seen it mentioned. Unfortunately now I see that the people that do know this deadly defense see it OP, damn. It is a great counter to banshee/guardian spam, slugga spam, and overall nid spam[all their t1 units about] and it certainly punishes them but just a bit too much. Not sure what to do about it though, before it tickled enemies and now it fries them. Either we find a middle ground by reducing range, reduce damage slightly, moving to tier 2 to punish those spammers stuck in t1, or we can make it like bionic sweep were it does damage and stuns squads around it at one time.

[BHLohk]

No offense... wait till you get to the TS 28+ range (roughly where people start getting good). You'll find it extremely hard to melee your way though everything, and SM players will be quite wily with Scouts and TACs; Eldar players will kite the heck out of you, and Nidz will play the numbers game or eat squads with the Lictor Alpha.

Orks are much better then they were, they dominate tier 1, but they aren't as devastating as you might think.

I've been playing at TS27(1v1) and TS31(2v2) since 1.3. I must say, since 1.5, I roll Kommando and grenade spam.

Against SM, get nades as soon as possible, 2 Sluggas 2 Shootas(for killing Scouts). Throw nades until they retreat. Set up teams? Cloak and nade or knife, if you're feeling zaney.
Against Eldar, 3x Shootas with Big Shootas. Throw down some nades infront of your Shoota Boys as the Banshees are howling their way in... they'll either retreat or get slaughter by all the Waagh-ness + nade damage.
Against Nids, same as Eldar, except Nids don't have many desirable counters to it.

Obviously these methods can be countered, however it is EXTREMELY effective, especially since 1.5 is so cookie-cutter: nids get gaunts, Eldar gets Banshees and SM get Tacts. You don't need to "think" about your counters, just build'em outta the shoot and nade'em to oblivion.