View Full Version : PC Gamer Preview, and 2 Am Paranoia.
14th Jan 04, 3:25 AM
So I picked up the Issue of PC Gamer everyone is talking about. After a lengthy scan to find the article in question, I just about crapped my pants in disappointment.
Let me explain. I've been doing the 40K thing for a while. Long enough to remeber sustained fire dice.. but not long enough to be a Rouge Trader... yet. Several things about the preview in PC Gamer set huge gonging alarm bells ringing in my head.
Since I am sure PC Gamer wants everyone to run out and by their articles, and I support their need to be able to buy paper and pay writers, I will try to keep this to a minnium.
Colorful and vivid vs Dark and dour affairs - Yes the game itself when played with minatures is often a colorful affair. However the warhammer world is not. When you have 50 plus variants of the same space marine armor your going to get some pretty spectcular color scheme. Previous games have been dark and dour because of the feel the game as in, character,universe, and story is a dark and scary affair. There are NO true good guys in this warhammer game. It's Inquistors slaughter planets at just the rumor of a tainted book, or cult. The Emperium's citzens are taught to distrust any alien from birth, and Xenocide is common. Its a universe where technology is dark and strange, and yet miraculous and worshipped. Any piece of concept art from the codexes, or Chapter Aproved will reinforce this along with quotes from characters in the universe like.. the main quote on every Main box of warhammer 40K and at the top of the 40K website. "In the GRIM DARKNESS of the future there is only war"
I am not going to be liked for this opinion. But I feel after seeing the screen shot, that it looks.... .. hoakie, bright, corny, unrealistic, VIVID. After the earilier very hope inspiring concept art of the nightlord, I am going to assume this is a THQ thing? As relic must keep her publishers happy, is there a place I can be heard at THQ about what the Warhammer 40K universe is? How does the designers and artists feel about this? Am I the only one who likes my dark dystopia of a universe, that doesn't have the glitz and happy people from Star Trek. It's almost like the rant between the old dark Star Wars vs the newer happy Star Wars..
I want SO badly for the game you are creating to be the best thing I have ever seen, thus I feel this is very imporant and that I have somewhat of an obligation to stand up and say something.
Just a bit more.. the very next line on the website..
"Space Marines form the unyielding fist of the Emperor, brutally crushing all who threaten his vast realm. The mere mention of their name elicits cries of despair among the many enemies of Mankind."
P.S. I didn't like WarCraft III because of the same reason, and thus.. didn't buy it. Heck.. WarCraft II suffered from the same thing.. Now WarCraft ONE.. thats a game with darkness! LUCTAR! TOFU! BAZWATCH!
14th Jan 04, 11:07 AM
Amen to that.
Even though I haven't seen this PC Gamer yet (mainly because I live in Sweden, where we have another, swedish version of PC Gamer), but I've had night mares about 40k going to be yet another lively and bright, but futuristic, version of War Craft, since I first heard the news about the screens.
Not that bright, colourful and happy games are all crap, they have their place, but 40k aint one of them. I'd prefer a more "noir" approach, with lots of gun smoke, craters, stained uniforms, ruined, gothic-looking buildings etc etc, to accomplish that dark, futuristic and realistic view of a future where "there only is war".
It's sad if Relic have locked themselves into the flashy, colourful and bright interpretation, because I really had the highest of hopes when reading the press release (before all the screens), since I really confide in the fact that Relic is more than capable to produce an awesome game engine (both intuitive and the pure game mechanics).
14th Jan 04, 11:29 AM
I agree with you two but I think that we should maybe hold our opinion until we see more than 2 screenshots. While I agree that it looked a bit too color happy. Knowing relic they probably put in a color scheme editor so if you want your units dark and gritty you can make em that way.
Of course it could just be a WC3 clone and be bright an ddone up. But hopefully we saw an abnormally bright level and the rest are dark and gritty.
14th Jan 04, 11:37 AM
If it's not "dark" you can always turn down the Gamma on your vid cards :-)
I kid, I kid.
14th Jan 04, 2:20 PM
Hello Todd. Thanks for your thoughts. I can assure you that your opinions are heard and noted, as are those of all our fans. Our job is to make the best possible computer game based in the WH40k setting, and we have several hard-core WH40k tabletop gamers in our midst (as well as many who are rapidly becoming hardcore tabletop gamers! ;)) who feel every bit as passionate about the setting as you do.
Try to temper your opinions of these shots, keeping in mind that they are just two screenshots showing a very small piece of the game. Perhaps soon enough more will be shared with the public, and you'll be in a better position to judge our work and whether it meets your expectations.
14th Jan 04, 2:41 PM
I don;t mean me to give you such an... unfliltered.. opinion. I have come to EXPECT the best from relic as a company, and anything less would be devastating. This is a dangerous road to trod as now you have great responsibility. I truely believe your company is one of the last who are truely passionate about the gaming experince instead of making dollar signs. I also truely believe that the best games make the dollar signs ONLY through the passion of the staff behind them. On top of this with the sheer amout of time yoru staff is putting into this game and even talking to a bunch of rabid fanboys like myself on this forum shows me volumes about the people making this game.. The waves of devotion, love, and loyality from the fan base here should show that. It's not easy for me to get excited about a game as I have been disappointed many a time over the YEARS of gaming. [Edit: the Warhammer world is especially suceptable to this] I am excited about your game.
Here is my problem.. I started off expecting something as cool as this..
Bring a towel.. your pants will need cleaning. Also feel free to take the link/post down after it's done a rotation around the office if it hasn't already. [Edit] I feel guilty posting that link. It isn't something that relic has created.
14th Jan 04, 2:56 PM
Just curious, but why would we want to censor your post by removing it?
I think it's well and good to hold those crazzzzzyyyyy Relic yahoos to high standards!
I agree that alot of warhammer is very dark and dour smoky mechanical and gothic but that is only the imperium and the chaos aspects of warhammer, the eldar do not look like that, niether do the orks (which have that kind of mad max look) as well as the tyranids, tau, necrons and whatnot all have there own look some of them like the tyranids tau and eldar are more colorful and vibrant than the imperium which is more gothic and mechanical almost mideavil by comparison. I would suggest not judging by that screenshot, that a is very zoomed in, b one specific place, could be bright on purpose, yes it says in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war, they are not saying that everything is dark and grim just alot of it. You cannot have a dark gothic looking desert world it just wouldnt look right, and a ork town on a desert world (what the screenshot looks like to me) would not be gothic dark and mechanical like the imperiums hive worlds. So dude do not judge a game by 2 little very zoomed in and somewhat bad screenshots in an article, cause im sure the entire game is not imperium versus orks on a desert world, hell we know next to nothing. So man have faith, we dont have a lot to base any opinions on, and im going to take this stance relic is innocent till proven gilty, so until I see numerous shots of bright cartoony worlds then I refuse to believe they did not capture warhammers spirit. Plus I personally thought those models looked quite good (and the orks in the game already look a bit cartoony anyways so they should be in the computer version) So really I would not get all worked up by one screenshot you dont know what he final version will look like and the game is not nearly close to release if you start the negative hype now no one may buy it which would be real bad. So in essence please look at the cup as half full not half empty be optimistic have a good attitude im going to trust relic to deliver another winner like hw1 + 2 and I think you should to.
14th Jan 04, 4:32 PM
We hear your concerns.
I think you'll be happy with the way the game looks, especially when you see more shots centered on the environment. The PC Gamer shots center on our units very closely, and the units in Warhammer 40,000 do tend to be a bit on the bright side in some cases. We picked more vibrant unit colors for these shots to help the units stand out from the background.
I think our game currently looks better than the shot you posted a link to. The comment in PC Gamer about us not making a 'dark and dour' game really has more to do with us avoiding making a muddy game, you know, the ones where everything is dark brown, dark grey, and black, and you can't tell what's going on. Sure, its dark, but that doesn't make it good.
I hope when you get a better look at it you'll agree. And no, I can't say when that will be. :)
14th Jan 04, 4:38 PM
*Breathes a BIG giant Sigh of Relief*
14th Jan 04, 4:50 PM
I think our game currently looks better than the shot you posted a link to.
i like the sound of that! but personally i liked the shots, i also liked warcraft, true they are not dark but hey they are centered on the units and their design more than the overall picture i believe. if it was all dark i think many would need a magnifying glass to point out the details. if it has a night and day system then it is logical for the surrounding to be lit up. i think ur concerns are mainly heading from the bright orc, orcs grow darker in skin tone as they age and this is only a regular so it makes sense. Orks in 40K ONLY, are a bit cartoony and as stated care more of shooting big guns and driving fast vechiles then actually hitting their targets so they are much unlike the orcs in fantasy.
14th Jan 04, 4:56 PM
Ahhh good old relic. At least there is one gaming company that listens to us.
14th Jan 04, 5:03 PM
'Elephant runs in applauds Zigg for clearly and bravely stating his view and then Elephant runs over and hugs all the Relic staff for saying we have nothing to worry about and just for being so damn luffable'.
Oh wait, I am being all happy-pappy, now I have to be dark so I can fit more into the WH40K environment.
'Elephant lumbers in wearing heavy spiked armor covered in dry blood and scary insignia. He gives a glower look at Zigg before raising his Bolter and blasting him into bloody chunks arrayed artistically across the wall. Elephant then looks over his shoulder at the cowering Relic Boarders and prepares to open fire on them or wip out a hammer and create a few new holes in the ground. But then Tacit and Shadione walk un-afraid out of the darkness, they twirl their guns and elbow one another out of the way. Elephant slowly pales to a sickly white which then becomes scarlet stained from the aftermath of the orange fire emitting from the Relic Crew's guns. A dark mist crosses the thread.......and they are gone.....'
Woops, kind of overdid myself. Hehe.
14th Jan 04, 8:57 PM
Relic just that one screenshot in my opinion smites all previous attempts at ANY Warhammer game albeit fantasy or 40k. And I am truly impressed by how often you are on these boards listening to your current and future customers! ITS AWESOME!
14th Jan 04, 9:09 PM
We aim to please, and we thank you for your support of our efforts to bring you the best games we can make. :)
15th Jan 04, 4:07 PM
Shadione makes a great point about making a game dark, and making a game muddy/ugly. I think you'll all be impressed with the strides the game has come, especially since those screenshots were taken.
I'm not going to make any biased opinions on the art of the game other than saying you will hopefully be most impressed. But what it comes down to is gameplay... and making the game a joy to play. Its so hard to tell from any screenshot how a game will play, so they don't really do justice... especially in an RTS. Even the top games on the market look so static because they don't capture the moment.
Thanks for the comments. Its good to hear ppl be honest about their opinions because it keeps our minds clear that others seeing the project for the first time will have their own impressions. We look at this stuff everyday and see changes throughout so we don't get this kind of feedback everyday. :)
15th Jan 04, 4:13 PM
A excellent point made i must say. I hesitated buying warcraft once cause the screenshots didnt communicate what the game was so i waited until i had a chance to try it out at someones house. From these screens i can presume that this RTS may quite be something special/great now thats not something most RTS games can say about their screen shots.
15th Jan 04, 4:16 PM
Does this mean we can't put the in the fuzzy little bunny? :(
15th Jan 04, 4:23 PM
no! the fuzy bunny is definetly out lol. Although having a pink orc warboss would be rather amusing WITH a fuzy tail. you must include him as a easter egg unlockable or something thatd be great.
15th Jan 04, 5:07 PM
sure!... . if you post some more screen shots, so we can all breate a big sigh of relief!
P.S. I DON'T want to see a big pink warboss..plz...
15th Jan 04, 5:16 PM
lol cmon u know that there is a pink warboss somewhere out there leading armies of goffs into battle! lol, id be great
16th Jan 04, 5:39 AM
*relaxes and settles down*
It's damn nice to have game developers like Relic, that aren't that high up on their horses, not to listen on the general public's first response, and it glads me even more to see that some genuine WH40k-entusiasts are involved in the project, which ensures the success of the project even more!
I simply can't stand this waiting and that even us, outside US, will get a chance to see some previews of the upcoming hit.
*sorry for the spelling and grammar everyone, but english simply isn't my first language :)*
16th Jan 04, 10:09 AM
>>Does this mean we can't put the in the fuzzy little bunny?<<
Although I would rather not see fuzzy bunnies, unless they had really sharp teefs, I wouldn't mind seeing a specific purple dino appear at some time or another so I could turn him into goo...
16th Jan 04, 10:25 AM
16th Jan 04, 11:08 AM
^ lol, too funny. :)
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