Which range should infantry be engaged at ?

[student]

Hi

I know i could look this up at coh-stats myself, but there is just so many stats to take into consideration.

I wonder which range i should try to maintain when there is infantry vs infantry engagements.

I wonder about those

Panzer Grenadiers vs engineers
Panzer Grenadiers vs riflemen
Panzer Grenadiers vs infantry section

Any bazooka, pancerschreck or recoilless rifle squad vs "basic" infantry (riflemen, panzer gren, volks, engineers)

PIAT vs basic infantry

Airborne vs basic infantry

Rangers(without subs) vs basic infantry

Fallschirmjager with Fg42 vs basic infantry

Commandos vs Knight's Cross Holders
Commandos vs Assault Grenadier

Rangers with subs vs Knight's Cross Holders
Rangers with subs vs Assault Grenadier

Thank you very much in advance. I really appreciate it.

[Latias418]

PG vs Engineers and Rifles always at long range. Both are far better at close range, and both are also far better at close range with their respective weapon upgrades.

PIAT vs infantry... out of range, preferably!

Other AT weapons vs infantry should be at wherever the rest of the squad's most effective at.

FJ w/ FG42 is amazing at any range, but at long range it will deal a lot more than whatever your opponent is dealing.

Assault troops vs assault troops - Holding in green cover to force the other assault troops to move up. Esp. for rangers who have other weps in the squad.

[YurdleTheTurtle]

Hmm that's quite a big list you've got there...I'll be able to help I guess. On a note though, you could have simply tested this out in-game if you're unsure of coh-stats.com. Alternatively, if you're only interested in comparisons, www.game-data.net (http://www.game-data.net) should help out greatly.

Panzer Grenadiers vs Engineers: Definitely range. Although even at close range, they're still superior to U.S engineers. However, at least at range, they take less damage.

Panzer Grenadiers vs Riflemen: Riflemen tend to be better at close range, especially when we take into account that they outnumber PE infantry. If it's 1 squad vs 1 squad, stay at range, otherwise Riflemen will win.

Panzer Grenadiers vs Tommies: Tommies are very strong if we're just comparing plain Panzer Grenadiers with them. In a 1 squad vs 1 squad battle, a Tommy squad will likely deal the most damage at no matter what range. Better to have 2 Panzer Grenadiers fighting a single Tommy squad instead. In that case, use range and cover.

Any anti-tank squad vs basic infantry: Okay, that's pretty vague and largely varies on the what kind of unit it is. In general though, having multiple units using a weapon not effective against infantry will obviously affect performance. A plain squad will always be better against infantry than a squad with 2 bazookas (half the rifles, half the anti-infantry power). If the Rangers are upgraded with Thompsons, then obviously they'll be great against basic infantry at close range.

PIAT vs basic infantry: PIATs have penalties against all infantry types except Soldier armour (PE/British troops have this). This means the PIAT is more accurate and does more damage (Enough to one hit kill if it lands on a PE soldier!) against PE infantry than Wehrmacht infantry. This is likely a 'number bug' (Typo or error in the number value of certain stats).

Airborne vs basic infantry: Airborne rifles are relatively the same as the rifles Riflemen use. There's a few differences here and there, like slightly worse damage and accuracy, but that does not really matter. The biggest difference I would say is that the Airborne rifle is more accurate on the move. If we're just having a plain Riflemen vs Airborne comparison while standing still, then Riflemen rifles are better.

Rangers w/o Thompsons vs basic infantry: Ranger rifles are the same as Riflemen, but have superior accuracy. That said, Rangers only have 4 members in the squad armed with rifles, while Riflemen squads have 6 members. I'd say they're pretty much equal.

Fallschrimjager /w FG42 vs basic infantry: This is a no-brainer. Fallschrimjagers armed with these heavy weapons are great against infantry, especially at close range. Combine it with their ambush first strike bonuses for some more goodies. They're even on par, if not better (probably is better) than MP44-armed Panzer Grenadiers.

Commandos vs KCH: Don't try it unless you have to. Commandos are fairly mediocre/weak against a KCH squad. It does not help that since the beta patches after 2.301, they were "nerfed" against KCH armour. As a general rule, you need superior numbers/firepower (because the Allies don't have a KCH equivalent) to beat a KCH squad. Alternatively, Snipers and flamethrowers are good too.

Commandos vs Assault Grenadiers: MP44's are much better than Commando Sten SMGs, having better accuracy and damage. Even though a Commando squad outnumbers them, it's still a rather risky engagement. A single Commando squad can win against a 3-man MP44 squad with usage of abilities or luck. If its a 4-man MP44 squad, don't bother.

Rangers /w Thompsons vs KCH: Thompsons are surprisingly almost the same as Commando Sten SMGs. Again, don't try to fight them alone, especially since there's only 4 Thompsons in a Ranger squad. Refer to above rule I listed for Commandos vs KCH.

Rangers /w Thompsons vs Assault Grenadiers: You stand a better chance, but again, MP44's are the superior weapons. If the MP44 squad is reduced to 2 members, Rangers will do fine, but any higher and it's kind of risky. 4 man MP44 squad, don't bother.

[Latias418]

Fallschrimjager /w FG42 vs basic infantry: This is a no-brainer. Fallschrimjagers armed with these heavy weapons are great against infantry, especially at close range. Combine it with their ambush first strike bonuses for some more goodies. They're even on par, if not better (probably is better) than MP44-armed Panzer Grenadiers.

I have to disagree here. Yes, the FJ42 does a shitload of damage at close range. But it's also perhaps the best handheld infantry weapon in the game at long range (except snipers, of course)! Fallschirmjaegers are fragile beings so I think they are best kept where they're taking a lot less damage while still dealing out a fair bit. If it's one riflesquad coming up to your stealthed FSJ, go for the close-range ambush, but otherwise I would stick in green cover or building at max range.

[student]

Thank you both very much for your answers.

Just to clarify a bit. I have played enough that i know which units are stronger. What i am trying to find out is for example: say that i have 2 squads of commandos, and i have to get rid of the nearby MP44 squad. At what range should i engage, so as to minimize my losses? Not taking any of the special abilities into account . The same goes for the other ones too..

[YurdleTheTurtle]

@Student: There's obviously no defined answer for that. It really depends on a ton of factors, like health, weapons, cover, target table, etc.

In general, if you want the least amount of harm, you'd stay at range. Of course, if the opponent has weapons that excel at range, you'd need to decide if closing the distance would be worth it.

In the case of SMGs, they're all bad at range, so you have no choice but to close the distance to even start dealing any damage anyways. LMGs/MMGs (Light/Medium machine guns) have better accuracy at range, but again they're still the best at close range.

There's no simple "list" of "what to do" for every single situation, it's merely something you learn by experience really.

@Latias: The FG42 is similar to the MP44, but has better suppression overall, and has better accuracy at long/medium range.

However, medium range is much better for the FG42, as it has x0.45 (-55%) accuracy, which is a lot better than the MP44/BAR at the same range. At long range, it's only 10% more accurate than the MP44/BAR, so you won't notice much of a difference.

[AllRaj]

Yurdle, can you advise on what happens when I instruct my unit to attack the opposition if they are well out of range?

What I mean is, for example if I am trying to stop the opposition from taking my strat point and select the oppositions unit which is well out of range, my unit will walk over to the location. Will they then start firing on the opposing unit from the maximum range according to the stats of their weapon or will they move closer than necessary, possibly for better cover?

[YurdleTheTurtle]

@AllRaj: All units will always automatically attack at max range if they're not already within firing range. You have to manually tell them where to go, otherwise they will stand still and simply shoot whenever possible, regardless of distance.