DoW2 addict think about going TT

[MarkDawg]

Hey all I have been watching battle reports on you tube and been reading a lot on GW website. I have been doing research but since you have to buy the rule book and have to buy the codex's for each army I have no way to make an informed decision on what army to choose. On the GW site they say pick the army you think looks the coolest I here ya but I want to win a few games along the way if you know what I mean.

[Coredump]

Almost all of the armies will let you win a few games along the way. But you will do much better with an army you enjoy. Do you have a store you can go to? It can give you a chance to flip through the codices and see what you like.

I suggest doing some reading, maybe buy the rulebook. Get a feel for what kind of army you want to play (lots of little guys, elite hand to hand, big tanks, etc etc) And maybe what races look like fun to you. Once you have narrowed it down a bit, let us know what you are looking for, and what looks like fun. Then we can help you make a good match.


Rulebook: The main book is about $50, has all the rules, as well as a lot of fluff info. Background on the universe and the different races. Also has some painting stuff and pretty pictures, etc.
You can also get the small rulebook on ebay for 10-15 bucks. It will have all of the rules, but none of the fluff type stuff.

[MarkDawg]

I do have GW store that is close. I can see from what your are telling me that it's really what army I think looks the coolest. I am leaning toward 2 races SM and Tau but the am a little gun shy with the Tau because I here they are a one trick pony and that seems like it would get boring quick. It would be like playing CoH and only ever poi-spamming from what I have heard.

[Coredump]

not only looks cool, but how they operate. For instance, if you really like the hand to hand stuff, Tau is *not* a good choice.

If you like to speed around, shoot stuff from far away, and have a ton of guns, then Tau is a good choice. But yeah, if you like/hate how they look, will also matter.

I am not a Tau expert, but I am pretty sure there have more than 1 trick they can pull.

[juckto]

FYI nearly all players go SM for their first army. By breaking the mold and not going SM then you'll help promote diversity and thus more interesting games!

Course, the reason lots of people go SM is cause they look cool, easy to learn how to play, and easy to paint ...

[epicenter]

Most experienced 40k players who are out to try and help you, once they get past their biases, will tell you to start with Space Marines. People will poo-poo Space Marines for being "generic", "kiddie", or whatever, but there's a reason why everyone plays them.

1. The Space Marine army is very well-supported by Games Workshop; you'll never be in a lurch for a lack of up-to-date rules.

2. The mechanics in the latest editions and codexes of 40k will always have been playtested the most extensively with and against Space Marines. Things like game-board size, how fast things get into CC, unit special rules, and the strength of various weapons are all playtested against Space Marines. For instance, in 2nd edition Warhammer 40k, there was really no way for a Sisters of Battle player to hurt an Eldar Avatar due to its special rules; if your Eldar opponent had an Avatar, it was best just to concede the game. Situations like this will not occur with Space Marines, especially in the latest editions.

3. They have the best model support, and GW constantly releases new stuff for them. The number of unit choices that exist but don't have models for them are small.

Once you play a bit with Space Marines and get comfortable with the rules, and you find you're still interested in some other army, you'll be better grounded to make an informed decision as if to collect another force, sell your Marines and switch totally, or just stick with Marines and talk about "if I had the money, I'd..."

[Brother Wolf]

Something to add is that if you can get a friend to try it out, you won't need to be in a store to play all the time. To that degree, the Assault on Black Reach starter set offers you rules and $200 worth of Space Marine and Ork models for the paltry sum of $75. 2 nearly complete starting armies and rules for the cost of the main rulebook. Sell off the Orks on eBay if you wish.

Yes, it seems almost everyone has a SM army, (some have several. I have 2 on the table and 2 more in a state of 'some day' still on the sprues). That is due to a number of factors, but they are easier than average to paint in most cases and easier to learn the game fundamentals with due to their forgivable and durable gaming nature.

There's no shame in following a well trodden path to start your journey. SOm day, you'll be equipped to forge your own path.

[Evil-Termite]

epicenter makes some good points in his post and you should certainly take those into consideration.

I play both Tau and Marines and I have fairly large collections of each.

Tau Pros:

a) Very cool models!
b) They are middle of the road popular. There will likely be 2 or 3 Tau players where you go play so you don't get the sensation that "Everyone" plays Tau.
c) Battle suits are fun to play and have unique rules that will make some of your opponents scratch their heads.
d) Although there are fewer "GOOD" tau builds, that also means you will have to purchase fewer models to get a good army going. There is still variety in how you set up your army.
e) The tanks are skimmers and fly right over terrain!
f) Tau is a finesse army where you win by fire power, creative movement, and tricks.

Space Marines Pros:
a) Their popularity guarantees good rules, support, and cheap used models.
b) There are multiple codices you can use with marine models to change things up if you get board.
c) There is a good mix of shooting and close combat models you can include in your army.
d) LOTS of special characters to use that work good and add flavor to your army.
e) Lots of great armor options! You have options for armored vehicles in four of the 5 slots so you can make a totally mechanized force if you want.
f) Their codex is only a year old
g) Your force org slots can take on various rolls and you can still include all necessary rolls in your army.

Tau Cons:
a) You really only have shooting units, and no flavor for close combat.
b) They aren't quite as forgiving of a race. If you make mistakes they will probably be BIG mistakes.
c) Their codex is a little bit older
d) Most of your force organization slots are set to tasks. Your heavy support needs to be anti tank. Your troops are anti infantry, and your elites are anti light vehicle and anti elite.

Marine Cons:
a) Almost everyone plays them, so you won't be that unique.
b) Not as much finesse to playing marines. They are bold and cool, but just don't have the same finesse as Tau or Eldar.

[MarkDawg]

Evil-Termite

Thanks man great post really helps a lot. So if I go SM and I go to play at a store will people be like ugg another SM army?

[Brother Wolf]

It's your army, who cares? If they don't want to play another SM, they don't have to. If they just like to play, they won't care what army you bring. This goes back to the 'choose the army you think looks the coolest to you' concept. At the ent of the day, you will spend far more hours assembling, painting & planning army lists than you ever will gaming unless you built one army, one list and never, ever change.

Consider if you will that there are several 'army in a month' articles on the web. This assumes a simple army, simple paint and dedicated nightly tasks. Maybe 80+ hours or so. That's two weeks of a full time job. The average game takes about 90-120min when you're really up to speed on the rules and/or playing in a tournament environment. Assuming the worst, you'll get at best 40-50 games in. Even a game/week will take you an entire year to get them all in.

This isn't a video game you can squeeze 10 hours into and walk away from. This is a time intensive hobby. You are going to spend alot of quality time with your toy soldiers. As long as you are happy with them, then that's all that really matters.

[MarkDawg]

That is good advice man I think I am going to go with SM for 3 reasons
1.$
2. The have a balanced play style.
3. They look cool.

Thanks for all of the post really helped me out

[waaghbu]

i started out tyranids like 6 years ago. then went necrons. then moved. then went orks cause i bought an AoBR box. decided orks really arent for me. they are fun, but for me, i wanted something different. i like SM, but i like csm more :] so im going with csm

edit* oh and the AoBR box is a great way to start out an army. if you also want to get a friend into it or something so they have an army to use as well[orks] but if you want to drop 20 dollars more, then go with a battleforce for SM. comes with alot of infantry, and rhino. its a good buy. AoBR is also a very good value for what you get. 70$ is what i paid for a handbook rulebook[samething as a rulebook - hobby section or something] dreadnaught, tactical sq, and captain. ork mob, 5 nobs, 1 warboss, 3 defkoptas. you CANT custom them like you can on a battleforce box. Still, good value.

[Xenith]

So if I go SM and I go to play at a store will people be like ugg another SM army?

No matter how popular the army is, if its well painted, based, and looks nice on the table, and if you may have themed the army at all, you will always get good comments.

People only go 'ugg, more marines' to the partially, made, unpainted marine armies, in my experience.

Dont worry, though, everyone has to start somewhere, and people will forgive you for fielding unpainted models in your first few games!

All in all, Id say that SM are a good choice.

Easy to make an army, and they can be as easy (or as difficult!) to paint as you like!

Case in point, my first army was marines. I painted them pretty badly. I havent played marines for around 9 years, but am now going back to them, with my improved painting skills, and making a good job of them!

Also, with a little creative thinking, you can use a SM army as either a regular sm army, dark angels, space wolves, black templars or blood angels - really 5 armies in one!!

[Evil-Termite]

Thanks man great post really helps a lot. So if I go SM and I go to play at a store will people be like ugg another SM army?

Actually, it's quite the opposite. No one ever complains when they hear I'm playing my marines, but I've gotten several comments along the lines of, "Oh no, you are a Tau player?" The reason is because people are used to playing against marines and they know how to play against them. On the other hand, Tau tend to play different than the standard "Marine Equivalent" bunch. The biggest reason, is that Tau blow up their tanks a lot faster than many other races.


1.$
2. The have a balanced play style.
3. They look cool. Marines are certainly a good army to go with. The assault on black reach box is a great place to start since it comes with the rule book and a whole bunch of minis.

Before you buy even more models, buy the codex and make yourself an army list and post it for all of us to critique. I did that and it helped me do well from the start.

[MarkDawg]

Thanks I will do that I bought the SM codex yesterday. What point level do most people play @?

[Telliphas]

The usual point sized games I've seen tend to bounce between 1000points and 1500points. To be honest I'd start off playing / collecting / painting a 500 point list 1st, keeping the points low at 500 gets you used to playing the game with the standard set up of troops. Once your ready to add in some spice to the mix, Fast Attack, Heavy Support and Elites you can then expand up to 1000, 1500 and beyond.

I'm a relative new boy myself only started playing the past 3 months on and off with a few gaming buddies of mine.

[Pick_Me]

I would say 1500 is a good amount to have. Take a look in the army list section(on this forum) and you will see everyones army list/builds. Thats a solid 2 hour game for a noob, you'll be checking the rules and playing slow. I would agree with Telliphas's comment. Min pts really start at 500 and then typically jump in increments of 250 (500,750,1000,1250,etc) and the standards being 500, 1000, 1500 and 2000.

Don't worry about not having enough points to play big, start slow or you can get overwhelmed and not learn the rules as fast. Plus when you walk into a game store its like playing sports on the playground. Its like basketball is 5 on 5 but on the play ground you might only get a 3 on 3 using half court. Just get a pick up game going with what you have and people are usually happy to play. If you only show up with 500 pts everyone will have at least that and will usually already have a 500 pt list in their head and just pull out those units out to play you.

[Evil-Termite]

1500 points seems to be a pretty standard army size so that should be your ultimate goal to get to. However, as the others have said, you will start by playing at 500-1000 points.

I recommend starting out with a 1500 point list for critique and then you will have a nice road map of what to buy. You can make smaller lists from the models you buy first.

My reasoning for starting with a larger list is that some units perform very well in 500-750 point games, but once you get to 1000+ points they start to die a little bit too quickly and you don't want to get stuck with models you aren't going to use.

[suicide_pogo]

I also own SM, and bought the AoBR box, my buddy took orks and we just had a battle yesterday, i had 1000 he had 800, so when he lost enough orks he just made another unit of them from his table edge.
And just to warn you, he came over at 4 and left after midnight, although we did stop for pizza and subway, and neither of us were too clear on the rules so we checked them every 2 minutes, it was along battle, and i won with my captain who had 1 wound left and 3 marines from one unit and 2 marines from the other.
I would definately suggest going with the AoBR and get a buddy to take the orks and play with him to get used to the rules first

[MarkDawg]

I bought the black reach box for my nephew for xmas and I got him GW classes on how to paint and play I will be taking him to some of the classes so I will be able to pick up a few things I am selling my Wii and buying black reach I already have the SM codex. Hey Suicide Pogo did you guys have fun?

[Xenith]

:awesome:

sounds like youre going about things the right way.

Dont buy too many models at once, get stuff painted before buying new stuff, or itll never get painted!

[suicide_pogo]

Markdawg, the best way to play is with a buddy, cause you don't really have the awkward part about playing with some stranger and you don't care if you loose cause you're hanging out with your friend.
And yes i had a ton of fun, although beer and pizza definitely helped.

I agree with zenith, i have so many models right now that if i painted 4 hours a day i wouldn't be done till christmas, next year

[Sethero]

Pogo, that sounds about right for two new players time-wise. Once you've really got a good grasp of the common rules the game speeds up a lot. It also helps if you can find an experienced player who's willing to give you a couple of games... I tend to remember rules better when someone else shows me how it works on the table.

Painting shouldn't be torturous. Granted, it takes some time to build up the skills you need to really paint fast and well, something some of us will never quite get the hang of. Marines can be pretty easy, if you're in a rush to have them painted and on the table. Look into Army Painter; their dips make things very easy to finish and while they won't look great, they'll pass muster (and you'll likely be one of few players with a finished army). I love painting, personally, but I know it's not a widely shared feeling.

[MarkDawg]

I bought a SM attack bike and I just finished it! I am doing a chapter of my own design. I like painting but I am not so good at it I read plenty about it and watched a bunch of stuff on You Tube about that helped a lot.

[Telliphas]

Keep reading and watching the tutorials Markdawg, I spend pretty much all of my spare time at work trawling through websites reading up on techniques people use to paint.

[Xenith]

Dont worry, very few people are great at painting when they start, and those that are usually have experience in a related field, or have done their research.

The skill comes with time and practice.

[MarkDawg]

Yeah I can see that. One of the reasons I started this hobby is I have carpal tunnel syndrome. I have been loosing my fine motor control. This will help me rehab after my surgery after the 1st of the year.

[waaghbu]

i bought a chaos battleforce, and its taking me forever to get it painted. and thats only like, 25 guys or something, heh. looks like you have alot to do, good luck with the surgery.

[MarkDawg]

Thanks

[CPK]

i started warhammer when they still had the battle for maccrage set with the tyranids and the space marines and i fell in love with both armies. So again it all depends on what the other people said before me. do what looks cool, maybe read up the fluff to get a better idea.

[MarkDawg]

I am in the thick of painting my AoBR SM army now. I have decided to do a custom chapter. I am enjoying painting but as I read through the rule book it's starting to make my head spin a bit.

[Brother Wolf]

Relax and re-read. Even us old farts miss a thing or two as version change, (note my humility at having played Independent Characters wrong i assault in recent 5th ed games)

[StoneRhino]

I am in the thick of painting my AoBR SM army now. I have decided to do a custom chapter. I am enjoying painting but as I read through the rule book it's starting to make my head spin a bit.We all do this at first. I think GW has it right with the AoBR and BfSP sets because it's set up to teach you the game phase by phase. No joke, I spent about 6-8 hours a night for a week playing different combat senerios in Dark Crusade before I even tryed the game out.

Follow the little games that came in the box. After you have those right then start a few small combats. Going line by line, phase by phase in the rule book. I mean actualy take the models out and play through the senerio. Even if it's 1 Marine vs 1 Marine. Soon you will have a good grasp on the game.

[Xenith]

Echoing what has gone before, dont worry, its a big book, I mean, textbook sized. If people could remember exactly what goes on in books that big with a single read, then there would be no need for the school system, right?

I find that the rules are often better explained through gaming - if you have a local GW store, then theyll be more than happy to guide you through a few games:

I went every sunday for months to my stores beginner days when I was starting out, learning how to play. Through osmosis and accumulated knowledge, I had worked out the entire rules without ever having read the book - which I bought about 9 months after I had started playing.

[MarkDawg]

Ok I will try that I will get a game going latter to night and just go though it rule by rule and see if it makes any since.

[Brother Wolf]

I split the fresh paint pix and sent them along to the P&M subforum in it's own thread (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=239794).