Devastators or Predator?

[CPK]

iv only returned to playing 40k again after a hiatus of several years. i restarted my army. my current list so far is

Chapter master
2 tactical squads
one with rhino
venerable dread
one termie squad w/ 6 guys

now i want to add a heavy support guy

should i go for devastators or a predator tank.

im also watching out for my money, so my first indication was to get the devastators squad, though they had more weapon choices ( i can fire 4 weapons) the predator has heavier armour and could survive much longer. i also fight against alot of tyranid, crons and chaos.

so should i get devastators? or bust more money out to get a predator tank and if so, what variant?

thanks alot guys

[Aquila]

If you're looking for armored anti-infantry, the Predator is a safe bet. It's pretty cheap for what you get, and while it's slightly fragile for an MBT it's a decent support tank.

Avoid lascannon preds like the the plague. Your best bet for Lascannons is going to be Devastators.

Also consider that no other army in the game can put an AV13 vehicle on the table for 60 points. A Naked Predator can be an incredible diversion unit if you have an extra heavy support slot.

[Xenith]

Generally, in their current incarnation, Devs are seen as too expensive for what they do.

However, they are a lot more flexible than the predator.

The predator will take all the anti tank shots, meaning the rhino and dread may survive longer.

If youre going to be adding more rhinos/armour to the army, then the pred may be the best option, although a dakka pred is about 50/50 effective against the armies you say. useless vs necs, good v nids, and maybe vs chaos, depending if they take mech. The devs will always be able to kill stuff!

Also bear in mind that the dev boxed set will allow you to give your tacticals weapons other than missile launchers: TBH, against the armies you say, the ML should go in a dev squad, and plasma cans/hvb in tac squads.

Write some army lists showing how you would use both.

Also consider that [iirc] a vindicator is the same price as a pred.

[CPK]

i also wanted to add, that i have razorback. i bought that recently cause i knew i was getting a devastator squad.

so Xenith, you prescribe a vindicator instead? iv never used one, i understand the fire power that comes with it but i was also considering the whirlwind instead of a vindi. i hate army building

well if i took a devastator squad, i would equip it with
2 heavy bolters
1 plasma cannon
1 mulitmelta

for the pred i would interchange it with either the
twin linked las cannons with the heavy bolters
or
autocannon with the side sponson las cannons


i like the option of the devs cause against crons, it would be an instant kill wit the plasma cannons and taking out groups of tyranids. the two heavy bolters would be for the anit infantry work against the nids, and the multi-melta to provide any incoming guys, a close work killer if needed.

as i said i bought a razor back last Thursday to accompany the devastators and i would inter change the twin linked hvy bolters to the las cannons and vice versa


if i took the pred
autocannon with side spons with las cannons, a heavy infantry killer with two las shots useful against zoanthropes and hive tyrants and crons,

or an infantry killer with the twin linked las cannons and the side spons heavy bolter. good just for the nids

but now Xenith brought up the fact of using a vindicator, if so, i would use the razorback to make one of my tac squads.
and price wise, i would rather get the whirlwind since it has some nice anti infantry work with the missiles.

so yea uhgh

if that was confusing im quite sorry, ill do a full army list tomorrow

[Xenith]

The dev loadout you suggest is pretty bad, 2 36" light infantry guns, a 36" heavy infantry gun, and a 24" [12"] anti tank gun.

Keep the squad with all the same weapon, or pairs and combat squad them, or have 2 pairs that compliment eachother.

With devs, vs the armies you fight, 2x plasma cannon, and 2x ml may be best [combat squadded...], with the heavy bolters going into your tac squads.

I dont definitely say do the vindi, I was just suggesting it as an option. Its very good anti infantry, good anti tank, scary , and the same price as a pred.
Again, its all about what you like the most.

Pick the one you think is coolest and get that.

[boomkapow!]

if you have the points for a dev squad, you could probably get away with a Razorback for your other tac squad (which you say you have already), then a vindicator. They are worth it, especially on 4x4 or 6x4 tables.
I usually give them a dozer blade. That way, they can chill in some cover. Then, if they get a "can't shoot" on them, they back up behind the cover until they can shoot again.
Points wise, that would be 40-100 pts for the razorback, so 155-215 total. If you had the points for a dev squad, this should still be in your budget.

[Ten Tigers]

Mixing weapons in a Dev squad is a BAD idea unless you are going 50/50 and split them into combat squads with each combat squad having identical weapons. (ie two Heavy Bolters in one and two Missile Launchers in the other)

[Brother Wolf]

I generally agree with Ten, but as an OLD WOLF, I can say that having a Long Fang pack w/ 2xHB+2xPC and 2xLas+2xML is not a horrible choice. Ranges are commensurate & weapons can compliment each other well, (esp w/ the new blast rules).

In the 5th ed era and the current SM codex, saves are everywhere and Devs can combat squad. It's not horrible to have 4 different units w/ paired weapons on the table. If you're packing them all together, then it's likely they'll be taking cover saves anyway so 6 shots from the bolters & 2 templates from the Plas should force enough wounds to make them think about where to put them all.

Of course, keeping the entire squad identical makes allocating your own wounds simpler and provides the redundancy you need.

And if you're taking MM, just take 4, don't ever mix it up in the group with others.

[Evil-Termite]

You have:

Chapter master
2 tactical squads
one with rhino
venerable dread
one termie squad w/ 6 guys I'm going to add the points up to see what is going to work for this list.

Chapter Master w/ relic blade, bolter, hellfire rounds, and digital weapons (175 points)

10 man Tac Squad w/ plasma cannon and melta gun (180 points)
10 man Tac Squad w/ plasma cannon and melta gun (180 points)
Rhino (35 points)

Venerable Dread (165 points)

6 terminators (240 points)

Total: 975 points.

Thoughts on the list: At 1000 points, only having 2 pieces of armor on the table isn't enough to over saturate them with armored targets. The predator with autocannon and heavy bolters would fit nicely into this list, just scrimp in some other places to the the 60 more points you need.

One thing that makes me nervous about this list is the chapter master who doesn't have a transport so he doesn't have a way to get into combat fast and the terminators don't really either unless they deep strike (which is dangerous). So for higher point levels (like 1500 points), consider getting a land raider crusaider to hold the chapter master and terminators.

I've used devastators in my past marine list and I've never been very impressed with them. They cost a lot of points and aren't mobile. I wouldn't recommend them.

[Brother Wolf]

Why not make the termies assault termies w/ TH+SS, add the chapter master in w/ termie armor & deep strike together. They can make a run move to spread out after they arrive and avoid template fire while SS provide that sweet invul save.

Just a thought.

DOUBLE POST

I stand admonished, Xenith. :(

[Xenith]

The problem with that, BW, is:


im also watching out for my money

6 Guys would indicate the AoBR box and the free WD termie.

With your list containing a rhino, razor and a dread, the pred would seem the most solid choice, although you will be lacking on anti tank.

[CPK]

yah the termies did come from the AoBR and the WD, same with the other marines. THe other 10 from the battle for maccrage set (I feel old already). so they only came with flamers and M launcher

full army list

chapter master
combi melta
lighting claw
melta bombs
artificer armour
170 points

tact squad
flamer
m launcher
sergeant with melta bombs
175

tact squad
same as above
rhino with storm bolter and m launcher
230

termie
240

Venerable dread
assault cannon
extra armour
190

total 1005 points

ok so ill add a dev squad with 2 plasma cannons and 2 heavy bolters, add one marine in there with bolter and attach the razorback to the squad with las cannons

and takin evil termits advice, ill add in a landraider crusader for the termies (need to find mine some dark place in the garage, glad its not even built yet)

then after thats done, ill add a pred tank.

my goal is a 1500 point army atm

[Xenith]

Bear in mind that being transported will see the termies miss out on all their powerful shooting.

Still, delivering 6 powerfists and a lightning claw into the middle of the enemy is pretty good, and the crusader gets as many bolter shots as the termies at 12" range.

Man I love crusaders.

[CPK]

thanks for the advice guys!