View Full Version : Scaling/size Issues
11th Feb 04, 12:23 AM
Okay, my beef is that with most RTS games, nothing is really to scale, people are the same size as tanks, and buildings are no bigger, WH40k is a game of massive things having massive fights.
My question the people over at relic making this is:
Will it have realistic sized units, much like ROME: TOTAL WAR. Where a building is something that would improbable for a single unit to fight alone.
11th Feb 04, 1:39 AM
i have found someone who thinks the same as me :P
i cannot stand it when the people r bigger than the buildings they r produced in, and are the same size as tanks :@ i get sooo mad!
11th Feb 04, 1:48 PM
Check out Total Annihilation the scaling is really good I hear as the "Infantry" are not supposed to be human sized but are rather like Mobile Suits and Heavy Mechs walking next to tanks and the like.
However when it comes to modern 3d RTS games scalling has become far better because you can zoom in on the little ship/trooper next to the large ship/tank and still get pretty good detail and size on both.
11th Feb 04, 5:00 PM
Played Total War? Seen Rome Total War? Thats the stuff right there. Thats how games should be seen, i would love to see WARHAMMER 40k in that, no rts, just an epic real time battlefield.
Totalwar.com FOR MORE INFO< Rome Total War: Possibly the GREATEST war game of all time.
Woah a THQ guy :fright:
Well certainly correctly scaled units would be nice,though Relic,from my experience with HW and HW2,doesn't exactly dabble in that too much(there's a certain thread about that actually).We can always hope I suppose.
12th Feb 04, 8:56 AM
Rab, i have TA....the game is good, they are all to scale cos u c them being built inside..and they aint 5 times the size of the buildings.
they had titan kinda things in that too in the Core contingency add on and they didnt ruin the game.
12th Feb 04, 10:26 AM
Yes, Total Annihilation is still one of my fave RTSs of all time... Hectic action, great base building options, defensive and offensive capabilities... It's got it all (Although it always DID favor the Core forces....)
12th Feb 04, 5:26 PM
Sadly I've only played TA full version once and the demo a few dozen times :)
I've got the TA jewel case on its way to my house now so I can't wait.
Anyway from what I saw of the Titans (I.E. Krogoth, THE CAN, SUMO) the reason they don't ruin the game is because they are uber expensive and very rare yet I gaurantee they would plow through thirty or fourty PeeWees like they were nothing and since the Peewee is the main ARM light infantry unit that's not a good thing eh :)
And it doesn't actually favor CORE as each side has their own advantage and disadvantages for example ARM infantry K-Bots seem to be better then the CORE's however the CORE heavy assault units like the ASSAULT K-Bots and Heavy Tanks wipe the floor with the ARM counterparts.
But again it all depends on tactics in that game which is what I lurved about it because hey if you used the right tactics you could kill a Krogoth with a scout tank heh....well maybe not.
Anywhoo I hope we get to see Imperial Guardsmen in squad sized units next to huge lumbering tanks and large Chimera APCs for armored fists :)......drools just thinking about seeing WH40k come to life in all it's hellish glory.
12th Feb 04, 6:28 PM
correctly scaled units would be nice,though Relic,from my experience with HW and HW2,doesn't exactly dabble in that too muchTry turning NLIPS off :p
12th Feb 04, 8:19 PM
Rabiddog, in theory u are correct but sadly not all things in theory work out. a good example is that of almost all the C&C games a few eg being, tiberian sun, generals, red alert 2, etc. these games have applied ur theory and it doesnt work. a uber unit will be sent with support therefore the combination will be very uber and it will take u 2 times the enemy number to take him down. titans even with weaknesses are still too uber. have u ever seen the usa nuke a enemy position in the desert? no, u will never see a titan being used in the form of fighting with small forces. titans are fortification/super heavy killers not support units for non epic scale battles. sure a titan would work in a epic game but not in a 40k game dammit. applying a titan to 40k scale is like saying alright for the epic tabletop lets put in a retribution class battleship on the field.. there is no distinction.
i personally dont care if theyr scaled properly as long as they dont over do it and u see a land raider as wide and high as a marine or just a bit taller.
Originally posted by Apollyon470
Try turning NLIPS off :p
It's still not very to scale imo,but it does make it slightly better :D
12th Feb 04, 10:43 PM
Slightly?! Heh, whatever. Anyways, i talked about titans in the Weapons of Mass destruction thread i believe. Titans. Maybe for a cinematic. OH! that reminds me, Relic, can we expect to see our favorite units in glorious cinema quality movies?
Let the answer be yes, please god. Let the answer be yes, please god. Let the answer be yes, please god. Let the answer be yes, please god. Let the answer be yes, please god. Let the answer be yes, please god. Let the answer be yes, please god. Let the answer be yes, please god. Let the answer be yes, please god. Let the answer be yes, please god. Let the answer be yes, please god. Let the answer be yes, please god. Let the answer be yes, please god. Let the answer be yes, please god.
13th Feb 04, 2:29 AM
Please, don't compare Total Annihilation to CnC!!!
The unit balance is great, and it is VERY possible to take out a Krogoth/Larger scale unit... In fact, It's one of my favorite things to do. I'll set up some uber defenses, get my own forces ready, have my anti-nuke facilities set up, think I'm set and then the opposition's big bertha(or core equiv) starts up. So I send out a strike team to take care of that, and then in come the big guys. The Krogoth with its multiple missile systems, head mounted super laser and dual cannon arms can take out anything, but sending a couple dozen mavericks can take it down a notch or two!!! :bandit:
There are still some great sites out there for it, mods, additional units etc -- Make sure to get the addons -- The Core Contingency (where they add on 75 new units or so, and the Krogoth) and the Battlepack (which has scads of maps).
Oh yeah, you can see thier scaling when you go to a city map, and even the peewee is several times larger than a car, which makes sense since a peewee suit is a medium sized suit of powered armor....
13th Feb 04, 5:41 AM
Ground control. totally to scale. even weapon ranges are sensible
13th Feb 04, 9:11 AM
we was saying how balanced TA is..we wernt critising it..
and rabiddog, when u got cheats and a cheatign AI pack things get interesting with larger units :D
CORE r slow units but super heavy. in the story they loose however, but a commander clone made from an experiment has taken over and has rebuilt CORE forces...now ARM r against massive weapons like the Krogoth and War machine (my fav super tank)
i have around 300 units for TA..the CC pack, and others like Gryphons (air superiority fighters for ARM, which the core equivilent is not as good..) some new tanks etc and other planes like a tactical nuke launcher for CORE, and a similar one which is stealth for ARM (doesnt do as much damage however)
CORE r the all destructive stuff, and the ARM r the more faster ones and rapid firing.
i think it is probably well known but it has some great units.
TA = Greatest RTS of ALL time, i still play it now, and for less that £5 its a deal! (dunno how much that is for u americans :P)
13th Feb 04, 11:45 AM
You can probably still find copies of TA and TA: K at some stores for $5 to $10 USD. TA was one of the most well-balanced RTS games ever made, I sometimes still find myself playing this game over LAN with friends.
Also, you got to make the game playable; units have to be easily visible and fun to watch. This also translates on difficulty of selecting and controlling those units, and determining what the enemy composition is and targeting specific units.
So scale usually tends to lean towards units being unrealistic in size compared to structures in most RTS titles.
Note: Games like Rome: Total War and Medieval: Total War based their units around squads or divisions of units, not a single unit. Also, the entire strategy portion is in the turn-based mode, all the real-time combat is tactical, no building occurs during the real-time phase.
13th Feb 04, 5:04 PM
Dont you think games Like those Total War ones better Fit Warhammer 40k? I mean COME ON! ITS LIKE A REAL REPRESENATION OF THE TABLETOP GAME!
Squads=PERFECT FOR WARHAMMER and 40K!
15th Feb 04, 2:48 AM
ya, would be good to c a WH40K game like total war..maybe a mod ?
18th Feb 04, 7:22 AM
For better scale, probably "produce" units in squads of five or ten. Sort of like Dune 2's system. They could be made smaller to compensate and still be visible.
18th Feb 04, 8:14 AM
Snicker - funny you should mention scale in Warhammer 40k.
Players have been joking over how you can fit 10 Space Marines in a Rhino APC forever....
21st Feb 04, 4:07 AM
well it looks very small for 10 space marines u gotta admit :P
21st Feb 04, 6:47 AM
well, maybe they all spoon up inside it.
21st Feb 04, 2:01 PM
lol i can imagine them all with that massive power armour on all cramped up inside..
and bending down to get in the back, all trying to do their best to crawl in, which is very difficult with their armour on hehehehe
21st Feb 04, 4:52 PM
what you mean? Are you saying that based on the scale of the miniatures? Ill admit those arent the most realistic ratios but in the fluff the APC's are huge.
21st Feb 04, 6:09 PM
in fluff they all fit in fine, those little seats hold one space marine each etc. the ratios of the game are messed up because look at these examples:
i) imp guard is now as big as a marine, why? make more conversion possibilities.
ii) space marine heads are just a bit too large for their torsos but can pass off as reasonable
ull see in pics that flufflwise they fit in normally and check out the pic of the land raider on the box with all the marines standing around. u can also reference articles that detail the size etc of the vechile and compare that with 7foot men.
22nd Feb 04, 2:36 AM
wtf! LoL imp gaurd the same size? :S:S:S
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