Grey Knights....i want them....now

[Scapegoaty]

So what......there are space marines in the game but only some stupid ultramarines....
I know what the game needs.....Grey Knights....they have everything that makes a game funny:
1) cool colours
2) unique armours.....Terminators....arrrrrgh
3) dark history
and the belong to the ordo malleus
what else should i say....please please pleaaaaaasse put in some grey knights. It doesn´t matter if they are only some special units but it is a must for dawn of war to have grey knights in it so what will you put in??? Hmm? need help??:vikingb: GREY KNIGHTS:mod:

[Maximus Decimus]

well all i can say is that i believe they wont feature them because thats treating the other races unfair if marines get GK. oh on a side note the ultras are just a multiplayer skin and the actual chapter in the campaign is the "blood ravens" sound cool.

[DarthFelth]

Blood Ravens :( could of least been blood Angels :D or better yet Space wolves ;)

[Maximus Decimus]

oooo space wolves! but the most likely reason is so not to get ppl upset why theyr chapter wasnt "the one" AND so they have a huge range of flexability for the story so they dont have to deal with problems like "oh a space wolf would never do that" etc. anyway how would a wolf or blood get a inquisitor hammer lol? most reasonable choice is killing him hehe lol shhhh "they" are listening.

[DarthFelth]

well, i dont see whats wrong with killing a Inquistor anyways, besides if you remeber in 2nd ed sw codes Karl Grimblood had a thunder hammer, he could of got it for christmas from a Inquistor or something ;)

[Maximus Decimus]

lol yeah lol, he punked it off the inquisitor after he used his lightning claws to tear through the inquisitors torso..why? the inquisitor was being a bit bossy and u know us wolves dont yield to inquisits hehe.

:vikingb:

[DarthFelth]

i dont know what yay mean

*stuffs Inquistor under the sofa*


:slow:

[Maximus Decimus]

lol!!

[Shadione]

Originally posted by Maximus Decimus
oooo space wolves! but the most likely reason is so not to get ppl upset why theyr chapter wasnt "the one" AND so they have a huge range of flexability for the story so they dont have to deal with problems like "oh a space wolf would never do that" etc. anyway how would a wolf or blood get a inquisitor hammer lol? most reasonable choice is killing him hehe lol shhhh "they" are listening.

This is pretty accurate, although not our only reason, to do our own chapter. Why do Space Wolves over Dark Angels, or Blood Angels? There's no making everyone happy, and as we wanted to do a more generalist marine force we decided that rather than do the Ultramarines again, or pick a less known group we'd have some fun and make our own. You can't begrudge us wanting to make our own mark on the 40k universe (wouldn't you if you had the chance?). How better than to create our own chapter? :)

And there 'is' a reason that the Force Commander can carry an Inquistorial Hammer, but you'll have to wait for the game to find that out. :)

[Anthonace]

is it actually a Daemon hammer or just a thunder hammer?

[No Surrender]

A regular thunder hammer isn't all that special. After all, termies are issued with them.


lol yeah lol, he punked it off the inquisitor after he used his lightning claws to tear through the inquisitors torso..why? the inquisitor was being a bit bossy and u know us wolves dont yield to inquisits hehe.
If you lived in the 40k universe and an Inquisitor told you to kill everyone you ever loved/cared about you would do it. It doesn't matter if you're a peasant or a Chapter Grand Master.

[Anthonace]

If anyone kills a puritan inquisitor he wont live long after that because the inquisitors fellow inquisitors and followers will hunt him down like a heretic. even a chaptermaster (his whole chapter may go down with him too)

[DarthFelth]

Originally posted by Shadione

You can't begrudge us wanting to make our own mark on the 40k universe (wouldn't you if you had the chance?). How better than to create our own chapter? :)

yeah i would and have :p i think its cool that your doing your own chaptor, i also guess that will give GW a reason to create anouther codex :p

[z-beam]

a loyal space marine carying a inquisitorial hammer... i dont think hed have to kill to get one, just be real good buddies with one of the ordos.

sounds like a force weapon, which is good for slaying nasty demons. and i bet he's a psyker to.

[DarthFelth]

no good at killing flesh hounds :p or people with collars of khorne ;)

[Maximus Decimus]

lol darth...i think u pointed that out enough in all the other threads and we get it but thats what lightning claws are for...mybe mastercrafted. wow i envy u.... will ur actual names be names of great heroes of the blood ravens? lol thats making a fine mark as GW will probebly release a index astartes on them right before game release or a bit after. u could also call their fortress or flagship battlebarge "the Wrath of Relic" or if fortress then "Relic" or something like that, that would be cool.

[DarthFelth]

:p i dont know what yay mean ;)

[rocket_Magnet]

well, i think its a good idea to have a new chapter to start from scratch with, means relic can develope the customs of that chapter, their battle tactics and traits etc.

and besides a 40k rts done by relic cant be bad, it would go against the nature of the universe!, if its a touch on homeworld for gameplay and visuals then the ver fact its 40k will make it an astounding game to play :),

a query to be discussed, just how much variation do you think relic will allow, will you be getting the odd marine with a chainsword in a battalion of mean looking marines with bolters?, will devastator sqauds, and some of the imperial armour be in there? ( all of the marine armour would be going a bit far), how customisable are dreadnaughts? (weapon variations?), will terminators be in there, will orks have looted vehicles from rival races?

theres so much to do with the 40k universe, im sure relic will find the balance and make a excellent real time strategy

[DarthFelth]

i think you should look at the screen shots dude, we have seen dreadnoughts which looked like they were armed the same to me, different types of squads. On anouther you can never point out how great khorne are compared to weaklings of the grey knighta :p

[No Surrender]

how great khorne are compared to weaklings of the grey knighta
Riiiiiiight. Even though a GK can take on a Beserker in h2h and win?

*Crosses fingers* Please don't make the Blood Ravens another stupid H2H chapter.

[DarthFelth]

and visa versa ;) i was more thinking about Khorne daemons as they are the only ones that that get save against most of the grey knights stuff as they ahve power armour as well :p
Most marine chapters that h2h ant that much better at it than the normal ones, infact blood angels is the only one which is much better than a normal one with that set back of the death company, and flesh tearers suffer even more.

[No Surrender]

Please explain how the death company is a set back? They get xtra attacks, an xtra save and all for free!

[Maximus Decimus]

infact blood angels is the only one which is much better than a normal one

i beg to differ because space wolves are also much better at h2h then most chapters. have u ever seen a tactical squad dish out 40 attacks whith 16 of them being power weapons? no but u sure will when using blood claws. space wolves and blood angels are the best h2h combat imperial marine armies.

one thing about GK is that theyr nemises force weapons are exactly that force weapons meaning they tear through armor and "can" instantly kill so how does a khorn daemon negate that and get a save?

[DarthFelth]

i didnt say space wolves wernt better, however you cant compare tactical marines to blood claws as both are designed for sompletely different roles, however ever the normal does have the advanatge or being ws4 so hitting on 3+

Death company, whats the disadvantage, lets see, my on a 4+ i lose man from a squad, hmm, fair does, part for when its a veteran assault marine, a honor guard or even a terminator. on 6 i have to role again. so hows that not a disadvantage.

As on grey night i thought only normal men just negated special saves and sergeant and termies negated normal saves, thats what i was told anyways, as i said before i have never played against them. However for the points i find it very hard to believe that they get +2str force weapons for 25pts ( i think) p/m considering a normal one is 40pts and that dont give you +2str

[Noir]

Originally posted by rockeT_magnet


a query to be discussed, just how much variation do you think relic will allow

You know,I think this is now a good time to consider giving DOW a modified version of the Creature mix lab thingy in IC,except with weapons this time around :)

[Scudd]

Originally posted by Maximus Decimus


i beg to differ because space wolves are also much better at h2h then most chapters. have u ever seen a tactical squad dish out 40 attacks whith 16 of them being power weapons? no but u sure will when using blood claws. space wolves and blood angels are the best h2h combat imperial marine armies.

one thing about GK is that theyr nemises force weapons are exactly that force weapons meaning they tear through armor and "can" instantly kill so how does a khorn daemon negate that and get a save?

Power weapons only negate normal armor..not invulnerable, though if it's a grand master carrying it, then it's also a force weapon, which is a whole different matter. And no, they don't all instatly kill demons, only ones being used by Grand Masters, who have the psychic abilities to wield them to their full potential.

Normal Grey Knights only recieve +2 to strength from them...not power weapons, not force weapons.

[H.B.M.C.]

Originally posted by Maximus Decimus
But the most likely reason is so not to get ppl upset why theyr chapter wasnt "the one" AND so they have a huge range of flexability for the story

I have to agree that using an unestablished chapter was probably the best route to go with. No "why does it have to be [insert chapter here]" if the chapter chosen is an unknown.

Good idea overall, as long as they're not red. I hate red Marines. Red is so boring. Make 'em... I dunno... pink... uhh... I mean lightish red*. Purple, yellow, blue (but not Ultramarine blue) anything but red.

:)

BYE

*Little Red vs Blue (www.redvsblue.com) reference for those who didn't get the "lightish red" comment.

[H.B.M.C.]

Originally posted by Maximus Decimus
"can" instantly kill so how does a khorn daemon negate that and get a save?

Well, most Daemons only have one wound, so instantly killing them doesn't have that greater effect. Some things have a Collar of Khorne, which makes them immune to the auto-death from Force Weapons as well.

BYE

[Maximus Decimus]

i never said that power weapons negate invulnerability saves but to my knowledge i thought that "Nemises Force Weapons" are force weapons which are power weapons that only a psychic can use and on a seccussful leadership roll if causing a wound it auto kills the character but if thats what it states in the codex then ok.


Normal Grey Knights only recieve +2 to strength from them...not power weapons, not force weapons.

i do know that nemises force weapons also negate normal armor save so what ur saying is that they r +2 str power weapons for regular GK and for grand masters +2 str force weapons right?

[DarthFelth]

hmm, i dont collect them, but i know anouther guy who collects Khorne and has played Grey knights, he told me that grey knights were poo against khonre because their daemons get saves, i dont believe basic grey knights weapons are power weapons at 25pts a model when you consider they are also ws5 and give 2str, i thought the other bonus depended on what lvl the grey knight was, like trooper, vet, lord, etc

[H.B.M.C.]

Originally posted by Maximus Decimus
i do know that nemises force weapons also negate normal armor save so what ur saying is that they r +2 str power weapons for regular GK and for grand masters +2 str force weapons right?

No, that's not it.

Nemesis Weapons get better depending on who's using them.

On regular GK Marines, they're just +2 Strength.
On GK Marine Justicars, Terminators and Brother Captains, they're +2 Strength Power Weapons.
On a GK Grand Master, it's a +2 Strength Force Weapon.

The simplest way of looking at it is like this:

GK Marines are armed with Nemeisis Close Combat Weapons.
GK Marine Justicars, Terminators and BCs are armed with Nemesis Power Weapons.
A GK Grand Master is armed with a Nemesis Force Weapon.

BYE

[DarthFelth]

ahh, that what i thought...

[Anthonace]

Justicars (sergeants) get power weapon NFW's as well

[H.B.M.C.]

Ah yes. Forgot about that. Thanks.

BYE

[DarthFelth]

do any of them cancel special saves or is that just things like psycannons

[H.B.M.C.]

Originally posted by DarthFelth
do any of them cancel special saves or is that just things like psycannons

No. Only Psycannons, Incinerators, Psycannon Bolts (a wargear upgrade) and The Scourging (psychic power) can ignore Invulnerable saves.

Nemesis weapons have no aditional abilities, unlike the Force Weapon the Grand Master has, which acts like every other force weapon in the game.

BYE

[Anthonace]

unfortunately things with invanurable saves sometimes have a better normal armor save than the special weapon/psycic power can deal with

[No Surrender]

Except for Farseers and Deamons. It makes sense that the Deamon Hunters would have specialties that can kill Deamons easily.

[Anthonace]

if anybody has looked at the callidus entry in the daemonhunters codex..
the c'tan phase sword ignores ALL armor saves even invaunerable ones

[No Surrender]

So does the Necron Warsythe.

[H.B.M.C.]

Originally posted by Anthonace
if anybody has looked at the callidus entry in the daemonhunters codex..
the c'tan phase sword ignores ALL armor saves even invaunerable ones

Yeah. Nice weapon. The Callidus is an aweomse unit. Once defeated an entire 2000 point Ulthwe Strike Force army using just a Callidus. The other 1880 points of my Guard army did nothing except kill 2 Guardians during the course of the game.

Sure, it was a fluke, but it was damned fun. My opponents never underestmate my Callidus... until I stopped taking her because taking her required me using an Elites and an HQ choice, and spending an extra 63 points to buy an Inquisitor Lord + 3 Servo-Skulls. Good rules writing there GW, making allied armies taking Assassins ALSO buy an Inquisitor...

Just whatever you do, don't fight a C'Tan with a C'Tan phase weapon. The C'Tan will absorb the weapon, and leave your Callidus without anything to attack with except her bare hands. :argh:

BYE

[BitchX]

Dont give up faith my brothers, the Gray Knights just might be in, some form or another. Considering that the Inquisition seems to be in, then the GK just might be too.

In any case, we can allways hope. But hot damn how i would want to see a Gray Knight Terminator squad kicking butt and ripping thru hordes of enemies, purging the heretics from the universe and aerggh..

[Runes]

Originally posted by BitchX

But hot damn how i would want to see a Gray Knight Terminator squad kicking butt and ripping thru hordes of enemies, purging the heretics from the universe and aerggh..
A Grey Knight squad would eazly get overrun by a horde army... and a fast death?

[BitchX]

Originally posted by Runes

A Grey Knight squad would eazly get overrun by a horde army... and a fast death?

In fluff or in game? Ofcourse they would be overrun with around 10-40 to 1 force balance against them in the game, but in the fluff? No way. And remember, the fluff is more canon than the game because of things like "game mechanics".

[Scudd]

In fluff they'd die also. Woopie doo, they're awesome warriors..against daemons. Tyranids...aren't exactly daemons, so all those things to ward off daemons and knock out creatures from the warp, won't really help. And their faith in the emperor won't protect them from blastmasters and the like, they'll die just as quickly as everyone else.

Grey Knights are lame. Flying about the Imperium, stopping daemonic infestation and what not. All in the name of a sack of bones on a golden throne back on Terra.


Emperor's Children..specifically noise marines on the other hand...

[Maximus Decimus]

well good sir grey knights are about just as lame as nids or chaos

"MUST DESTROY" theres a cliche for ya

"must consume/infest" theres another cliche for ya

the Inquisition on the other hand is much more complex then that.

:jig:

[Anthonace]

Originally posted by Scudd
In fluff they'd die also. Woopie doo, they're awesome warriors..against daemons. Tyranids...aren't exactly daemons, so all those things to ward off daemons and knock out creatures from the warp, won't really help. And their faith in the emperor won't protect them from blastmasters and the like, they'll die just as quickly as everyone else.

Grey Knights are lame. Flying about the Imperium, stopping daemonic infestation and what not. All in the name of a sack of bones on a golden throne back on Terra.


Emperor's Children..specifically noise marines on the other hand...

.... Are coloured hot pink :elephant:
oh yeah like thats a colour to strike fear into the hearts of men

Seriously the grey knights faith does protect them (see the shrouding rule)

[Raven of the Da]

actually fluff-wise Terminator armor leaves a person nigh invunrable

an example from the fluff was when a genestealer threatened a planet under the protection of the Ultramarines chapter, the chapters first responce was to teleport a squad of terminators and a librarian directly into their hive, and of course all but the librarian died but not before figting into the center of the hive and taking down their "brood leader" i think the term is pariah.

Now for those of you uniniciated a genestealer is a humanoid mutant with very VERY sharp claws, when in larger numbers their "leader" also develops powerfull psychic powers.

the assault cannon and storm bolter of second edition where far suporior compared to their current incarnation, and this is usually the basis of most of the fluff, once you powergamed with expensive elite units and HQ's now that's been pretty much paved over by the concept called game balance

there's a good reason why GK armies don't win tourney just like the Death wing and Legion of the Damned. And sound minded marine players doesn't use terminates

[Maximus Decimus]

yeah although i find it interesting that eldar have won the most tournys and with space wolves in 2nd. yeah SW!, id expect a vanilla force to win because they should be more balanced to fight everything.

[Anthonace]

if you are balanced someone who has an unbalanced army bests you in the area they're good at

[Maximus Decimus]

yeah but ur statement is flawed because a unbalanced army geared towards one thing will not win a tourny but only the games its geared towards.

[Anthonace]

thats because the unbalanced one meets another army in the tourny that whips its ass because it uses the weakness if the army

though my statement was flawed it does have some truth

now.. lets get this back on topic

[MetalMilitia]

NO GREY KNIGHTS!!! We already have space marines, I would much rather a more interesting older race like the Eldar. Necrons would be cool too. I would also rather guard than Grey Knights (lots of leman russ running over the ork or chaos positions would be awesome)

[DarthFelth]

i but i do think that a Grey Knight compnay teleporting in to help you fight off a horde of Bloodletters led by Daemon prince or even bloodthirster would just be cool

[Anthonace]

i would love to see an grand master in action... blasting with his master crafted storm blter filled with psycannon bolts..cutting people in half with his NFW...Holocaust...Hammerhand.... Shiny armour....

[DarthFelth]

id rather see him get cut in half by a bloodthirster or a daemon prince ;)

[Raven of the Da]

i suspect your inlove Anthonace scary. you need to put those GK away for a while :P

[DarthFelth]

if only bloodthirsters could have collars of khorne :D