Siege Station Mod (SSM) v. 0.4 BETA

[varis]

The Siege Station Mod is a community-created expansion pack for Homeworld2. The Vaygr fleet has been replaced by Station forces which are both more powerful and much more versatile. The new ships include powerful defensive units and a good selection of destroyer and cruiser class ships.

Together with the new fleet, creative gameplay concepts introduce many new tactics to the game. New weapons with new effects are introduced, as well as a good array of buildable weapons and sophisticated subsystems.

The full list of improvements and features would be too long to list here, for more details you are suggested to try out the mod, read the thread under Mods in Progress forum or see the mod website.

You can download the release (version 0.4.2) at:

http://aidograf.com/varis/release/

Mirror sites:

http://www.dendezyn.net/downloads/hwmods/snlstation/release/

(Not yet updated to the latest version, will need to do that in a few days.)

It is packaged as an .exe installer. You will need to give it the folder where you installed Homeworld2 (eg. with the Browse button unless you have the game in default location), and it will set up separate .big and .bat files, which won't interfere with other mods or the standard HW2. Also an icon will be created on your desktop that allows you to run the mod, and an uninstall option is added to your menu.

[Ragnarokx]

just two quick questions:

since up to now there are only REALLY FEW new models, how many ships will be used more than once in your mod ? And will this mod include the models made by Greggy ? and just one more, whats this mod all about ? "just" another race or anything "deeper"

I remember playing the SNL mod which was kinda dissapointing, mainly because i got like 4 of the vgry command stations and in the end i didnt know where to put them (size) and how to use them (looked the same)
something should be done about that.
No offense taken !

im looking forward to your mod though

[major slag]

Just 1 Quick Question:

HOW IN THE HELL CAN YOU COPYRIGHT A MOD ?

It says right on the front of my box that any thing (software/hardware) installed in or on this computer become the property of the owner and that he can do with it what ever he wishes.

I quess it lucky on your part that this COPYRIGHT CRAP pissed me off and I erased it. I didn't want to steal any thing of YOURS.

[Ragnarokx]

huh ? what does the above posted post want to tell me / us ?!?!

[varis]

Updated the announcement with the download link now. Have fun! :-)

I'm planning to update the release maybe once per month, so you don't have to constantly download the latest version. There is a separate thread for the development effort of the mod, where the story is different... If you want to help test or keep closer tabs on development, read the Mods in progress forum.

[The Monkey]

Hey varis, I like your mod. It really impressed me.
Keep up the great work!

The Monkey
:sniper:

[Ghost Dragon]

Hmm i see this mod is beeng played on the net.... must be good :)

[Magus]

Major, read the EULA of windows sometime. Or of any commercial software product, for that matter.

[major slag]

I'll take that as either you can't or won't answer the question, so the question still stands:

HOW IN THE HElL CAN YOU COPYRIGHT A MOD?

Perhaps you should re-read the EULA, it states in par. 1 that you can't do what you did.

"All use of the Editor or any New Materials is subject to this License Agreement. The Program is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Program."

http://home.comcast.net/~slagmine/license/cpytr1.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~slagmine/license/cpytr2.jpg

All "I see" is some ones over-inflated ego. Keep this up and Sierra, Vivendi and Relic will take away the PRIVILEGE that they have offerd us all.

[Isutan]

When I try to download it, the download never completes, so I just get invalid data.

[varis]

Legal matters can get pretty complex, and I don't think anybody has the definite answer to all the questions. For example, major slag is apparently referring to the EULA of the original game, which to my knowledge does not even come with a usable editor. The RDN package has a different EULA which presumably would have precedence in the case of a mod.

Even if the EULA states that everything that has anything to do with the original software would become the property of Relic, this might be unenforceable. Or it might be unenforceable in a number of jurisdictions and enforceable in others. This is probably quite a mess...

As standard copyright law (in many jurisdictions, as I understand it) goes, the copyright of the original work belongs to the creator of the original work. Making a mod creates a derivative work, where copyright belongs partly to the creator of the original work and partly to the creator of the derivative work. (This in case there would be no EULA, or if it is unenforceable.) In my rather limited experience, the gaming industry follows this convention despite any possible EULAs. The mission editor for Battlezone had a similar EULA, however when there was an expansion pack with community created levels made, the publisher of the expansion pack paid the mapmakers for any levels that were included in the expansion pack.

The point of the EULA is to make Relic's or Sierra's case stronger in the case they would have to go to court about copyright issues. Probably this motivates also payment to the mapmakers: it is better to pay a limited amount of money to people than to take the risk that the EULA is unenforceable somewhere after all and you end up paying money as a result of a court decision.

The motivation behind the copyright statement in Siege Station Mod is similar: to cover my legal back and to cover my buddy's legal back as well. The intention is not to take over any software or hardware that forms your computer system. I would like the copyright statement to read out as rather free, but apparently this is not possible. In any case, the mod is definitely not public domain. It might be necessary to state this fact, so a copyright statement is required.

You must note that I am not merely protecting any copyrights I might or might not have in different jurisdictions. Even if we go by basic copyright convention, it is obvious that part of the copyrights in the mod belong to Relic and part of them belong to other modders whose work I used as a component of my mod. The copyright statement notifies you of the fact that these components are not public domain.

The copyright statement is probably not ideal, and might be unenforceable in a number of jurisdictions, but figuring out a better one could involve a fair amount of work. It would have certain associated dangers as well, as crafting your own software license very easily introduces some nasty loopholes.

As long as it offers sufficient protection against any legal trouble, and nobody loses money or intangible assets, it should be basically okay. If you want to delve deeper into legal matters you should start a dedicated thread about that.

[The Reaper]

hmmmm.....is it just me or is it impossible to build the cool platform-things with the GCV?
I think there's a bug.

[major slag]

Well Varis, perhaps some explanation on my part is in order. Lets start with that I have had a duel boot computer since Red Hat came out with ver. 5.2 and the only time I use the microsoft side was to play the "Home World" series games. Reading through your web pages I saw that you too are a Linux user and should know something about the GNU and open source software. Being a member of the FSF (free software foundation) myself I know a little about copyrights and open source software. This is NOT SAYING that MODS should be under the GNU GPL, Sierra's EULA will NOT ALLOW that NEITHER will Relic's copyright on their source code.

Presently I am working on porting the Relic plugins for Maya and Photoshop to Blender and the Gimp (respectively) and on the back burner I have a program called Jaya (Java/Maya), also I'm evaluating other open source 3D programs for their compatibility with the Relic plugins. I've chosen open source programs because 1. their open source, right along with the Lua scripting code and 2. any one can get them; there are a lot of people that can't afford Maya or Photoshop. All of which is being built with using glibc, another open source program, available to any one. Who knows, I may come up with a standalone 3D program thats tailored to output ready to run Home World2 models. Once I get the plugins working I will offer them to all with out any copyright. The Main reason being Sierra's EULA and Relic's copyright. But if I could it would be under the GNU's GPL not my own.I started this while I was creating maps and wanted to improve on the backgrounds used. I have put a few maps out for use and none of them had a copyright.

(any one interested in the above mentioned programs, I'll post a thread in the "Advanced Modding Lab as to were to get them)

Most importantly in no way do I assume the position as the copyright police. But as you know the amount of time, effort, complexity and frustration that goes along with the task that I have undertaken, And then when I down loaded your mod because some one said it looked interesting and find out that I had to accept "Copyright © 2003,2004 Risto Varanka and others. All rights reserved" just to get it to install. I had to ask; HOW IN THE HELL CAN YOU COPYRIGHT A MOD?

You've stated, "I am not merely protecting any copyrights I might or might not have in different jurisdictions." And also "The copyright statement is probably not ideal, and might be unenforceable in a number of jurisdictions, but figuring out a better one could involve a fair amount of work. It would have certain associated dangers as well, as crafting your own software license very easily introduces some nasty loopholes."

According to the EULA you have no rights. And I could see that it would take "a fair amount of work" to come up with a copyright that you have no right to, then wouldn't it be easier not to have any copyright at all? Besides you have no right to a copyright. And even though Sierra didn't supply a "Level Editor" they did use a very big 2 letter word, "or".

I'm not trying to take away from your mod in any way, or all the work that went into and is still ongoing with your mod. I was looking forward to playing your mod and to see your advancement with it, but I will not install it as long as you have a copyright on it and will discourage any one else also.

As I stated before that Sierra and Relic have granted us the privilege of being able to create mods, and things like this will only result in a loss of that privilege.

[varis]

I put my current README online, for those who want to view it before downloading. For example if you want to know changes after 0.3.5, read the sections on versions after that up to 0.4.0.

http://aidograf.com/varis/readme/READMEv041.txt

Reaper: Possible bug in HW2 and/or SSM. Make sure that you have free module slots, which are not weapon module slots - 2 and 1 of those on the GCV I recall.

Ragnarokx: About 5 models are used multiple times. And a number of models from Greggy&Bandit were introduced a while ago, though I haven't tracked the very latest progress on those. There seem to be some other models floating around, and I was hoping yet a few others would be completed as a ready-to-use .hod files.

Unit documentation has received a good effort, there is ingame help as part of build menus/popups, the Field manual under Main menu and also the mod website. This is not enough so a few players of the mod have volunteered to help, for example check out the nice graph about fighter build/research tree on the website, contributed by NovaChicken. Thanks for help guys!

[varis]

Isutan: seems the hosting site for Aidograf is having problems for the file transfers, might work the first time or when you try the second time and maybe not at all for some people, then? I recommend trying our mirror sites in that case.

Currently there are about 4.8 GBs of downloads of the v0.4.0 of the mod from aidograf.com, so if we figure in failed downloads and any downloads from the dendezyn mirror we get close to 300 downloads so far, about 30 per day on the average.

[varis]

After a long pause, there is a new beta release on the mod!

Among other things version 0.4.2 introduces:

* Improved playbalance
* Smoother and easier click-through installation

For details on the mod see the first post in the thread

[Medivh]

strange, when i tried to install it, it sayd ``ssm_v042_beta.exe is not a certified Win32-program´´.
What the hell does that mean?

[Loki]

erm i had sum errors like that on sum other programs, but my SSM works fine :D

Double Post

Varis by the way, ur mod seems to be a bit slow? w00ts up m8?

Double Post


strange, when i tried to install it, it sayd ``ssm_v042_beta.exe is not a certified Win32-program´´.
What the hell does that mean?

Erm try the .rar and do it manually, if the setup dont work try the manual way, the .rar file... easy read instructs if u get lost u can find me on relic forums, ill be scouting the Mod In Progress and Completed mods

[BaalRoG]

this mod is cool!

[Bandit[KS]]

ok i am really dense or somthing i cant get the mod to work >< drat it all i mean it comes up on player vs comp and the selection comes up for the mod test then nothing happens i play the game threw and no changes >< i am doing somthing wrong

[Loki]

??? what u mean ???

Double Post

did u read instructions? did the game say Station rather than Vaygr? and there is changes, put lvl6 research and u got everythin, unless u have dun sumthin wrong... i dont know?

Double Post

Tell me what exact things u did, from getting the mod to playing it...
like this
Install Mod >>>> ???? >>>> ????? >>>> ????? >>>> ?????
thats it

[Bandit[KS]]

ok after i got the mod i >>>> read the Read me[and for dumb peoples like me some things i didnt get]>>>>i put the big file in the said folder and the whole overridebigfile thing threw me off not to mention one of the files you mentioned in the read me i didnt see its there just i cant tell so i tryed my best to install it>>>>i started up the game and went to Player vs com>>>clicked on deathmatch switched to Mod test>>> i didnt see the name change sadly so i was lost at that point.

To install .grm1 release: i dont know what that is
[3. Run with the -OverrideBigfile -luaTrace options on command line (eg. edit your hw2 shortcut or make a .bat)]
i dont know how to do that.

Double Post

ok after a few mins of messing around i got it >< man i am stupid

[Loki]

lo
it took me about... 1 min to install and play :P it took u more than that.. it probably took u hours :D anyway, is it ur 1st time installin a mod?

[Bandit[KS]]

Very nice loki.... :flame: and no i used many mods on HW and i have a pirates mod for HW2

[Medivh]

Great mod Varis, the station race Rocks ,but is more balanced to the other races.

By the way, i met you on the Gamespyserver for Hw2, its Taiidan_Armada (Loooong time ago)
Just wanted to say hi and thx for pointing the way to this mod in the first place.

[Reaper]

Great stuff Varis like your mod alot..
As Loki said your mod seems slow..and the game seems slow too its not my p.c by the way. One thing i picked up is the main station has 130 fighter and corvette slots for docking yet you can't dock them why is this? another thing i think would be good is to give the kit BC more slots for weapons so you can stick more big guns on it :D (its just an idea) other then that its a great mod..

[Loki]

dude a BC Kit has about 4 sub systems... Engine sub > Rocket Launcher Sub > 2 Subsystem Sub and thats it

[Stalkersky]

stunning work. thanks!

-------------------------------------------------------------
athlon 2.600+
GeForce FX 5600 128
a7n8x V2.0 deluxe

[BmB]

Omg.... bout that Copyright thing I figured (from what I know)

THAT:
the models in the mod (not the game) belongs to the person who created it, unless this person granted that ownership to somebody else.

any scripts in the mod belong to the person who wrote them, unless this person granted that ownership to somebody else.

The homeworld2 game files and source code belongs to sierra and that we have bought a license to use this software for entertainment purposes and that we are able to make mods for it as long as we dont fiddle whith the source code.

FACT:
the mod and any files in it is owned by the person who made it. It is Homeworld2 that is owned by sierra who have granted the license to mod it.

So simple is that.

[Loki]

why are u going on about this gay thing, no one cares, well modders care cause they do have to get permission to the people who created the models, and no u dont get permission to change HW2 by sierra cause they created it and they expected mods and models to go for it, like customization models and stuff, u can just write to sierra " can i have permission to change HW2? " it doesnt make sense? cause they will say " Why bother asking us, u can change it anyway " dun dun dun...

[ThorinDP]

Actually, Sierra forbid anyone from altering the source code, as far as I know.

The copywrite is mostly for recognition, but it also keeps anyone from making any form of money off of someone else's work, or taking all the credit.