Massive Multiplayer Element I'd like to see

[Mephiston]

Obviously not MMO, but rather it would be cool to have a way to tie multiplayer games together so that they would mean something, other than just a ladder. For instance, some game I played in the past (total annihilation?) had a multiplayer site where you could go there and register to fight for a certain side on this space map. Every day border worlds would have battles fought and the side that had the most wins for the day would capture that planet and it would most likely move that force towards their enemy's home planet. I am not saying to straight up lift an idea from another game obviously, just that it would be cool to see some type of mechanic similair to this one to tie everything together. It would just make it that much more satisfying for me if I knew I was battling for a cause and not just for the fun of playing the game.
I'm sure the game will be great in it's own right, but there are other possibilities you can look into, like a certain world might have certain rules and limitations, or a planet might have multiple scenarios that you could pick from, each scenario fighting over some objective. I might even be talked into paying a small monthly fee for such a service if it was optional and cool enough (not more than $5/mo though). I also feel this would help to capture the feeling of a campaign outside of single player.
If nothing else I would like to see a campaign multiplayer mode with some type of story; and it would be cool if it could be not just 2 player, but rather up to 8 player or something like that (2 for each race). Obviously this would be something where one of you could save the results and then would send the results of each individual battle to a website or other player's games, that way you wouldn't have to sit down through the whole thing together and could play individually (almost like a leauge).
There are a lot of ideas kinda mixed in together there, but bottom line is it would be very cool to see some type of progression made in the multiplayer mode rather than just skirmishes and ladders. I know the dev team is way more concerned with getting the content completely finished and then testing it to balance, and maybe making a demo for us :^D, I just consider this some forward thinking... Please post your thoughts!

[No Surrender]

Good idea, but practically speaking, it probably won't happen.

[Richtofen]

-relic please create a battle.net of relicness for HW2&DoW.
-Release an expansion that includes more races, so in the end all major races (marines, guard, tau, eldar, tyranids, orks, elder, deldar, chaos, necrons) can be used in game. Come on, necrons only have 1 troop and 1 tank they would be dead easy!
-on your relic.net that you will create :) have a map of the galaxy and people fight for the galaxy in different sectors. Could be either all races for themselves or the tried and tested order(humans, tau (tau were on their own in EoT only because they werent at the EoT), eldar vs disorder (rest).

[Tribunal]

Yup. I had mentioned something like this before.

How about this -- an online version of the Eye of Terror campaign? Huge "tournaments" where you could help decide the fate of a cetain sector by the numbers of wins/lossses in that sector by the races set up there by Relic? At the beginning of a week they would put up the EoT server, you would pick the scenerio, wait for an opponent(s) to show up, then battle knowing that your battle would have more meaning than just beating your opponent. At the end of the week the results would be posted, and the next week a new scenerio would be placed, either invading further into the imperium, or forcing the chaos forces back into the eye.

[Vijil]

This is good and in keeping with the worldwide campaign type events held by GW. Very nice idea.

[corkill]

Well said Mephiston, I don't think relic could justify the time and expense to perfect one of these multiplayer campaign systems. But it would definetly be the ultimate for all the 40k fans of the game, maybe we will see something similar.

Certainly because there is less focus on base building etc it may become a bit tedious securing the same objective points etc over and over again on a single map. I mean in a RTS like warcraft the same map can be played a million times because you can build your base a different way every time. But take away the building of your base and units and well we will just have to wait and see.

Don't get me wrong I'm a mad fan of the game already and will proably play it to death no matter what. But it hasn't been done this way before and it seems like Relic must have something like what Mephiston mentioned to keep online games challenging and fun up their sleeve.

It's late at night so if I don't make sense don't rip my head off.

[Xenocide]

Creating a Meta-Campaign for multiplayer DoW would not nescecarily require relic's involvement. All it would take is fan-based organization.

This type of multiplayer has been done by fans with games like Combat Mission.

I for one would volunteer my time to help set this sort of system up once DoW is released.

[Uzgah]

I'd contribute too. If I had any clue as to how. Have a link for that Combat Mission player base-thingy Xenocide?

[Xenocide]

I'll see if I can track it down for you.

It's really not that complicated but depends on how much customization that Relic allows us in MP.

Essentially someone sets up a site with a story for a conflict along with maps and factions. People register for the Meta-Campaign and meet online to play their specific battle. After the battle both sides email in the results to the Campaign Master. Depending on the results of all these battles the next round of battles turn out different.

For instance: Assume space marines are assaulting an Imperial space port defended by Orks with the goal of allowing further heavy reinforcements to be brough planetside. If they succeed the next round of battles would be modified so that the Space Marines have an edge. If not the orks have the advantage.

It can really be as simple or as complicated as wanted. If people are far enough into it they can include some fluff in their game reports that can be woven into the unfolding story of the campaign.

[RogueFox]

Sounds like a damn fine idea. :yippee:

[Xenocide]

This (http://www.cmmc2.org/ ) is a link to the webpage for the Second Combat Mission Meta Campaign. Poking around there you can get a feel for the aim of such an endeavour. However you should keep in mind that CM is much more complicated than DoW will probably be so not all of what they did would be feasible in this game.

[Tribunal]

You know what, the Star Wars HW mod had an affiliate that did the same thing. It had no official ties or the like, but staged various battles, and the units would carry over etc so it was a persistant universe as well. You get losses etc, so you would not build as many X-Wings etc next time. It was built around the honor system, of course, but since this is the 40k universe (and not a bunch or rag tag rebeles trying to topple a corrupt regime) then that would really be an issue at all.

Yeah, if the guys at Relic don't implement this, we definitely could, especially if there was a map editor included/released!

[Xenocide]

Well once DoW is released we'll see if we cant set this up. I'll definately be onboard. Once Relic releases a fan-site kit maybe I'll put a DoW:Meta-Campaign website up, see if we can't drum up more interest.

[Mephiston]

If they don't include anything like what I'm talking about, I'd love to see an editor. Most games come with editors so I'm not too worried. I kinda hope the multiplayer race is Tyranid, that way I can mod me some space hulk action. Tell me that wouldn't be a cool campaign! If relic can not find the time to make an official campaign because they are too busy perfecting this game, I'd definitely be on board for making such a campaign.

If I got to design this without regard to current resources, this is what my ideal campaign would be:

*From the main menu, you click multiplayer and sign in (very b.net like-it's the easiest multi interface out there). It would then take you to a choice between skirmish and campaign. Skirmish would obviously be a simple matchmaking system.

*Campaign: you click on the campaign button and it will bring up a screen that shows you sectors of the galaxy and the progress of each individual sector and the galaxy as a whole.

*From this screen you pick which sector you want to play on, and the race you want to play for that sector. Once chosen, you can't change for a certain sector until the galaxy resets. You are able to play different races on different sectors, just one race for each sector.

* When you select a sector, it shows you the current star map, and you select a border system to fight on. Selecting a system brings up the planets in the system and the missions you can select for each planet.

*You select which mission you'd like to play and it will launch as soon as there is enough people. Seeing as how the game appears to mainly be around capturing strategic areas (or at least that's the easiest way), this fits in with the idea. If the mission says, "secure the weapons factory, bunker, and munitions factory", then that's what you'll have to secure on that map.

*You can only play at each system a few times a day (1-3 most likely). The race that wins the most number of battles at a border system after a set time period (say 12 or 24 hours) wins that system. The systems connected to the system that was won are now border systems.

*Each race has a "coordinating" system and if another side reaches and wins that "coordinating" system, they take over the rest of the systems that belong to the controling race of the system that was taken over.

*The overall goal for a sector is to win control over all the systems in the sector.

*Some sectors are only certain races, like one will be chaos/marine only, another ork/marine, another all 4 races.

*When a side wins one of the sectors, they expand into the neighboring sectors that they were not able to play in before. There are systems in each sector that link sectors to all adjacent sectors. The only thing the expanding race can fight for in the sector they are trying to expand into is the system that links the sector they have won with the new sector. If the expanding race wins, the planet becomes a new coordinating system for the expanding race. If they lose, they are expelled and can't try again for a certain period of time (like 2 days).

*Whenever a race wins the majority of sectors, it will give you an extra day to play and then it will reset the galactic map, possibly randomizing it.

*The winning race could get the center sector as the prize.

Obviously this is not what I really expect from Relic, but my idealized version of what could be done, at the most complex I'd like to see it. This idea could be scaled to however you wanted it, even if it was just selecting a sector, who you wanted to play for, and it stars a random skirmish, and whichever race has the most wins wins the sector. Cheers!

[edited for clarity and brevity, also fixed verb tense agreement]

[Davion]

thanks!

[Richtofen]

maybe even launching gamespy

*shudders* dont mention that thing

[The Collector]

Someone mentioned replayability.

People play FPSes, same maps over and over again. Might be interesting to have giant co-op maps or something, or have variations based on the Warhammer 40k scenarios, such as Planetfall, Ambush, etc.

[Mephiston]

Re-edited my second post, obviously for brevity and clarity's sake. I usually heavily edit anything that I post, but I realized I was 5 minutes late for work already when I looked down after typing my first draft. I apologize to all those who attempted to read the post before, it should be much clearer and a little more detailed now.

Also at the request of Richtofen, the reference to "that matchmaking system which will not be mentioned" was deleted, as it was out of the scope of the idea anyways, and I also hate that system.:evilnod:

Hopefully, now that the post is revised, I can get some good feedback. Cheers!

[Vijil]

Collector: I've been playing Q3DM17 since I got q3, and still think its the best FPS map ever created for any game. Ever.

I've played it at least a few hundred times, probably a lot more than that.

Relic need to produce some similarly classic maps I reckon.

[Anthonace]

for realism a planetary war would be best because even a small planet would contain up to 100's or 1000's of normal scale maps
think of armeggedon(sp?) as an idea

[Richtofen]

Also at the request of Richtofen, the reference to "that matchmaking system which will not be mentioned" was deleted, as it was out of the scope of the idea anyways, and I also hate that system.:evilnod:


Yay!:yippee:

No more "subscribe now!" ads or annoying gayspy lockups!:banana: :rant:

[Uzgah]

Mephiston
That is a great idea. I would certainly play a system like that, reminds me of the capture system in WW2Online. If it was ever implimented I be there.

[dArKB*****d]

Lets make it quick and easy and just copy DUNE II that had a map split into segments with colour coded areas' just adopt that technique and hay presto good mulitplayer campaign map.

Obviously a few tweaks here and there, and it'll fit in thightly with the warhammer universe. (Armageddon style map)

[SoheilsX]

Do i hear Eye of Terror Campaign, all over again?

[Shakrith]

I know, we can have online results contribute to a 40k campaign, e.g. next year's one.

[FluxX]

Well. 2 ideas that are popular, and how to impliment them...

1) A in game organised tournament. Weath entries and results are kept on server, sent to 3rd party websites or whatever.

The paper / 3rd party modding and emailing of turnament results is burdensome to many. Also takes alot to keep going.

But an ingame tournament would allow for ease of use, and more incoragement in participation.

Unfortuanatly, to complicate this, some sort of registration/entry system would be needed. So that clans ect, could only allow clan members to join their own turnament... or only teams to join the team turneys ect...

2) Some sort of ongoing war, similar to Weastwoods C&C online wars, where parts of the world are fought over, and eventually one fraction wins. This also incourages participation... IE, "we cannot let our favorite sector/level fall to anothe team!" :) .

Or, a ongoing MP drop in/ drop out style play. I belive this is already being developed for Ground Conrol 2. It allows any vacant player start points to be filled, while the game is still going.

This is a similar setup as the MMO ideas, but in the small scale. Could also probably be hosted by individual clans...

Thats it!

Can I patent this idea??? Please!!! Tell me Relic? :)

My really good idea:

A client program, that allows you to set a PC up as a WH40k:DOW server. (or this would be provided by the MP intiernet servers)

This server contains large levels, or levels that are linked in some way.

Then players would drop into the start points, and fight over the terrotorys/levels.

A clan could "own" thier own territory, and fight challangers over its possession. Invite alliances ect.

Oh well, still needs the kinks ioning out...

[Imperial marine]

there could be big campaigns online like eye of teror cityfight but probably be 2 slow for a comp:argh:

[Mephiston]

Fluxx, I don't really agree with the joining in the middle of the battle, that just doesn't work well with most RTSs. What happens when you've got two people playing and they happened to be of equal calibur and they just managed to wipe each other's armies out? They're still rebuilding when, all of a sudden, here comes the new guy and he can knock one if not both of them out. It devolves into who joined last. Or on the flip side, one person has a huge army, waits for you to join and then kills you as soon as you pop up.

Admittedly it sounds like people would be less likely to be wiped out in that fashion in this game, but still, I think once a game has started, it should stay with that number of people. Unless Relic can design a way that people can jump in on a HUGE map, like reinforcements coming in on either side of a siege or something. Interesting idea, but not exactly what I had in mind. I was going more for just something that was ongoing on an "overworld" map.

Although I do agree with the server thing. If Relic thinks it would cost too much to maintain a server for this idea, I say release server code so that we can make our own servers to log into and have our own campaigns. That would be cool if you could customize your campaign, like how many sectors there are, which type of scenarios you wanted to exclude or include, etc. That would also be cool for clans, because you could password a server, then one clan could we one or two sides, and you could duke it out from there.

Also, if the server code is in our hands, we wouldn't have to worry as much if (god in heaven forbid) Relic ever went bust or were bought, or when they just felt it was time to stop supporting the game. A lot of games suffer when this happens to their publisher/maker because their online play all of a sudden evaporates.

Of course this is normally also because there's a waining interest in the game as well. I have a feeling this game is going to be like Total A where people are modding it and playing it for years to come. I certainely hope so!! :^) Plus I also hope Relic does the thing they're great at, releasing really good add-on material down the road after release.

Cheers!

[FluxX]

I know of the difficulties that you speak of...

GC2 is implimanting this idea, and frankly I like it!

It makes an ongoing battle, it simulate real battles, where reinforcements can come it...

You are looking at it from the perspective of "I have to win" as suppsoe to "I just have to have fun".

Also, you are forgetting, the winnig could be based on who has the most terroroy (and so gets the most rienforcements, so its balanced when a new player with a new army drops in) or who has the territory for the longest (and gets a extra multiplyer for more territory).

So, it will be a king of the hill game, or hold the fort game.
You know, that eventually you will loose to masses of incomming troops (I watched LOTR:T2T the other day, I want to play battles like that :) ) but, you can still win, and get the highest score!

So it would be a constant drop in/out level, with people all trying to get the objectives, and aviod, remove any opponents.

But yes, for it to be fair, some sort of balancing needs to be had, like equal reinfocements ect.

[MVB]

Just adding in that TLSC has at least preliminary plans of spreading here; it would be awesome if they included a connected system within the framework of the game, but if they do not, you can trust that we'll be doing something like it; any interested party that would like to partake in working on something like this should they not include it in the actual game, please PM me anytime. Fantastic ideas being tossed around; as one who used to play the games probably a decade or more ago whe I was a kid, and as a diehard Relic fan, I'm sure this game should be fantastic.

[MVB]

In relation to the flux/otherguy discussion ... recollecting the game Shattered Galaxy, where one player initiates a battle by attacking a province on a global map that is programmed within game, there are certain balances and checks to jumping into battles. The way SG did this was by maintaining a player cap on a battle ... only 16 players could join on each side or something like that (I can't even remember anymore), and so when the cap was reached, that was that; each player had his own set of units which he could use as reinforcements for quite some time, and there were enough of them that they would last the whole time-period given to the battle. The side with the most objective points by the end fo the battle won the combat and the province. Evenly matched players might lose some of their active force to the arrival of new reinforcements on one side or the other, but the existence of a reinforcement pool for each individual player would allow for some recovery of this.

Of course, with resources probably a part of the game, preset pre-battle units probably won't be a function ... instead my bet is you produce all your units in-game as in the homeworld series, in which case it would be devastating if you barely handled one opponent only to have another drop right smack dab in on you.