Vegitarianism

[TheBob]

Frankly, I don't understand how just eating veggies could be healthy, how are you going to get protien of B vitamins?

And also, many vegitarians are any rights activists, why do they think there saving cows by not eating part of one, chances are the same number of animals are going to get killed every year with or without them eating meat.

[Uzod I]

Vegitarianism is actually healthier, and there are other ways to get protein and vitamins that you need, meats aren't the only things that provide that.
The truth of the matter is that many ppl especially in America, eat way more meat than they need.
As for animal rights activists: Most are crazy neways :crazy: so normal stuff doesn't apply for them.
Besides, they want animals to live because they love them, why would you eat something that you love? It's a matter of prinicipal, see?

[Sherpa]

Not true for all.

My GF doesn't eat meat. Its not that she is a crazy libertarian or PETA enthusiast, but she simply does not find the idea of eating flesh very appealing. She gets more than enough protein from soy milk, dairy product, and other soy foods. She takes vitamans too so there is not real problem.

I would also agree that most americans could do well on a non meat diet for awhile... :)

[oneredpanther]

*SNARK*

TOP....OF...FOOD...CHAIN....*KZZRRRK*...MUST...EAT.... EVERYTHING ....

[zenogias]

Reason to not eat beef:

By eating beef, you maintain/increase the demand. An individual increases it slightly, a dozen increases it even more, and thousands make a noticable mark in the demand for beef. If those thousands give up eating beef, than the demand drops, and so less cows are slaughtered -- ideally, the demand will drop so much that a slaughterhouse or two has to close down (no offense to the employees, but that's capitalism for you).

So by not eating beef, you do your part.

The same goes for other types of meat.

Oh, and when I conquer the world, I will be at the top of the food chain and will breed you all like animals to feed my sick appetites. Then I'll grind up the bones of your children and feed them back to you.

Ah, don't you just love Darwinism? :evil: ;)

[Tygre]

Its just as healthy either way...just eating veggies is more "ethical." But I use unethical methods to get my way only as a first resort, and it's hard to balance your diet around only vegetables. Frankly, i'll take the easy way out and eat one or two (less than that stupid food pyramid tells me to) servings of some nice well-cooked meat. It's the red meat that causes all those diseases and stuff animal rights activists are trying to scare you away from. Oh, also, apparently milk CAUSES osteoporosis, cancer, diabetes, and WEAKENS your immune system to AIDS now.

[ceejayoz]

It's possible to be a vegetarian and get protein, all the best to those who do.

However, I believe I have sharp front teeth for a reason. I'm not gonna buck my natural status as an omnivore. Lions see no need to eat only veggies, why should I?

I think Panther puts it best:

TOP....OF...FOOD...CHAIN....*KZZRRRK*...MUST...EAT.... EVERYTHING ....

[TheBob]

Honestly I couldn't live just eating veggies........What would you eat instead of a burger? A bowl of granola?

If I had granola with a side of fries my tastebuds would go into shock.

[Tygre]

Yeah, you could just eat your Whopper toppings and bun minus the patty (and the cheese if you're one of those anti-dairy vegans).

[Uzod I]

Yes... Panther does have a way with words, doesn't he? :crazy:

[zenogias]

Yes... Panther does have a way with words
Yes, and drugs.

[frstkor13]

I eat meat because God put meat on the planet for me to eat. And it tastes good.

Can we argue some religion now too?

[Uzod I]

:wtf: You got a deathwish, don't you? :wtf:

[ceejayoz]

Originally posted by frstkor13
Can we argue some religion now too?
lol, there are already 2 other threads for that, frsti ;)

[Ressev]

I eat meat because God put meat on the planet for me to eat. And it tastes good.

LOL.

God made us Vegitarians. We were allowed to eat meat officially after the Flood of Noah because of severe enviromental chnges and some plant types used for proper nutrition were destroyed or dispersed all over the world.

Enough religion now frstkor?

A good reason not to eat meat is simply the amount of hormones and other harmful chemicals that get into animals... but then plants have the same problem too. :dunce:

[Murph]

Yeah, you could just eat your Whopper toppings and bun minus the patty (and the cheese if you're one of those anti-dairy vegans).

that is so f'in annoying. As some of you know I work at McDonalds. I dont eat their meat for um... other reasons =/

But occassionally, some people ask for their sandwiches without meat. Some people get ONLY the meat.. in a box =/. Once in a blue moon we get someone who doesnt want BREAD. :rolleyes:

[Vaarok]

I generally refuse to eat meat I don't know. The crap they sell at stores and restaruants is usually sickening quality.

Meat I knew when it was alive, now that's another matter. A gorgeous milk-fed veal bull or hand raised rooster... nrrmmmrrmmm!

Last one was a bigass half-hereford we raised to seven months on milk. Johnny da bull... We had him hung in the butchers' fridge for almost week, so the rigormortis set in and he tendered up even more...

The sweetest tenderloin I've had in ages. Be damned if I give up my favorite protein. Farmwork calls for lots of calories.

[ceejayoz]

hmm... i don't think i could eat something i'd raised myself, lol...

"ooh look, this used to be johnny's leg..."

*vomit*

:p

[Vaarok]

Augh. Prey monkey.

I'd walk past him and give little *poke* and give him a handful of grain, and both of us would be hungry...

Really, it's time to whip out The Quote:

Life on Terra Nova, by Dream Pod 9:
"By the late twentyfirst century, increasing urbanization and the rapid growth of cities had produced a group of humans whose ties to the natural world were tenuous at best."

[Walker]

Vegetarianism is a lifestyle choice and fashion statement, nothing more. If man or any animal considered eating its food as morally unacceptable everything'd be dead.

In fact when I think about it, vegetarianism is a powerful statement of consumerism and western degeneracy. It states that here is a person who can can buy any food and chooses to make what is meant to be a matter of life or death into a moral statement, and has no need for it to nourish them because there is such an abundance. An example of the complete independence and alienation from the natural world.

[TheBob]

Originally posted by Walker
Vegetarianism is a lifestyle choice and fashion statement, nothing more. If man or any animal considered eating its food as morally unacceptable everything'd be dead.

In fact when I think about it, vegetarianism is a powerful statement of consumerism and western degeneracy. It states that here is a person who can can buy any food and chooses to make what is meant to be a matter of life or death into a moral statement, and has no need for it to nourish them because there is such an abundance. An example of the complete independence and alienation from the natural world.

Bah....It's just wierd.

[zenogias]

An example of the complete independence and alienation from the natural world.
Which is really funny because vegetarianism has been around for thousands of years and is a part of a number of different cultures and religious practices. Buddhists are forbidden from eating meat because killing anything for no good reason is wrong; since its simple to acquire all the food you need to live from farming, there is rarely a good reason to kill something for food.

Of course, you're killing plants too, but, last I heard, plants neither have the capacity to feel pain, nor think, so it's doubtful they mind. Cows, though, have both the capacity to feel pain and think, so I think they do mind when you kill them.

Or how about this: if it tries to avoid being killed -- tries to preserve its own life -- that means it minds beind turned into your snack.

[Tygre]

I'm buddhist... I eat all the meat I want. The way I see it, I didn't kill it, someone else did. Nor did I buy it. It was given to me by the person who did.

So until my parents kick me out of the house, I'll go for a nice well-done steak whenever. Then I'll decide if I can wait until the next life to try to achieve nirvana or ruin my reputation as a badass, right wing, evolutionist, Christian hating, son of the beach.

[zenogias]

Tygre,

Meesa thinks you have a snowball's chance of ever getting to Nirvana ;)

And yes, I did use Jar-Jar speech in that line and, you know what, I'm proud of it! :devil:

[Ressev]

Last one was a bigass half-hereford we raised to seven months on milk. Johnny da bull... We had him hung in the butchers' fridge for almost week, so the rigormortis set in and he tendered up even more...

Oh, man, my mouth is watering. Wish I lived on a farm...

[Alpha_1]

You know what??? Chaaaaa, uhuh.

Just had to say that.

Anyway to the point, I have no problem with vegitarianism, what I have a problem with is militant vegatarians, the ones who tell you what bad things you are doing by eating meat, consuming milk, and eating cheese.

I have been an omnivore for 35 years, in all that time I did not ONCE walk up to someone eating a salad and tell them they are doing something wrong. This is an illustration though so don't get any ideas. The problem with many vegatarians is the superiority complex they assume they can exibit. Pardon me but last time I checked no one was better than me and no one was less of a person than me regardless of their religeon, sex, sexual preference, race, dietary habits, or monetary wealth.

Militant vegatarians are no better than militant christians, prochoicers, or peta activists. They all stand on their percieved high ground preaching the 'correct' way without giving a shit about anyone but themselves, if they did care perhaps they would try harder to get food to other countries with short supplies of the stuff.

I'm sorry but if you are going to be a vegatarian DON'T try to shove your ideals down other peoples throughts, live and let live. Ask for a little respect if you are invited over for dinner or something but don't try to convert or sicken those of us omnivores who like a good steak, or milk, or even cheese.

Last time I checked it is natural to drink MILK, why the hell are women born with breasts? To breast feed children, so what is the big deal with drinking milk or eating cheese?

Keep your aggendas in your desk drawer, don't try to preach to others that they are wrong, you're no better and no worst than us omnivores. You chose your lifestyle and we aren't trying to make you sick so don't be trying that with us and critisizing our lifestyle choice.

[Vaarok]

Ressev, y'want me to ship you a bit? Where you live? Have some burger in the back of the third chest-freezer yet.

And Walker, that was an eloquent masterstroke, illuminating and explaining what I was groping for precisely. My applause.

[IgnusDei]

and there's more to breasts than breastfeeding, that's for sure.:D

Honestly refusing to eat meat ain't gonna change a damn thing. It's the corporate giants we need to kill in order to free our bovine brethren.

Yes, i admit it. I am a member of the Bovine freedom army, and we are responsible for the industrial sabotage of the tyrannical MacDonalds corporation and it's evil army clowns.

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!

Seriously, to those veggies thinking they're gonna put Hamburger Bill's profit margin under, get a clue. There will always BE a demand for meat. Humans are omnivores: DEAL WITH IT, cuz' it's our nature. Are you gonna bitch to a lion about how he shouldn't be eating the gazelle? No. And for three reasons: one, the lion can't be reasoned with. Second, why should he be? Why should he change his diet anyway? Cuz' you say so? And at last: He'd eat you anyways. :devil: Oh, the irony.

Of course, i'm ot 100 percent in agreement with the meat industry concerning hamburger, or namely the fast food variety. The way animals are treated IS disgusting. To those who think there's nothing wrong with meat today, watch af few tapes of what it's like to be an animal in the modern day farm, and if you're not concerned how inhumane the treatment is, consider this:

That Big Mac used to be the cow with green puss seeping out of its twitching eyelids.

[Tygre]

And that tomato was from that plant with the green pus seeping out of its poisonous leaves.

[TheBob]

Many of those animal rights groups take the worst cases and make it seem like the norm.

All this bi0tching that there doing isn't going to change a goddam thing. There going to have to relize that the world is run by companies now, not governments.

[Bad]

Ahh breast meat. I luv breast meat it does not matter if it is lean breast meat or plump breast meat I love it all. Chicken breast that is;)

[Vaarok]

<reprobate smile>

Children, does anyone here complaining about animals being raised for slaughter have a single experience in their life involving the production of said creatures? There will be perhaps one affirmitive response, and for the rest of you, I say: I thought not.

A cow is a agricultural means to a end. In my case, milk. That means cheese, yogurt, ice cream (rebel not against the Way, lest you not Baskin the 50 flavors of joy!) and numerous other good things.

The cow is born. Approximately half of these cows are bulls. Anyone want to try to milk them? Don't answer.

They go off to be fattened and eaten.

Then the hiefer calves that remain grow to a year and a half. They are bred. If they do not become pregnant, they cannot milk. G'bye s'more cows. Hello happymeals.

Then, even more healthy cows that do not become bred after their first, second and third-etc lactations also get beefed.

That's a lot of creatures with no purpose but the nutritional equivalent of liquid capital.



As for "unnatural," who are you who lives in a house and types on a computer and eats of synthetic food to speak of nature, and from your vantage how have you missed that while the gender-birthrate is about 50-50 for most species, the average large herbivore species maintains about two males per 20 females. What do you think happens to the rest of those males?

[Æs Sídhe]

In my ongoing theme of irony:

So here I am thousands of miles away from home attending a war college. On this course that teaches senior officers Aerospace doctrine and the characteristics of aerospace power I meet a fellow officer. Go figure. She is a delightful women. Somewhat unusual but more and more common these days. I meet her again at the Mess to have dinner one evening. We are now in civilian attire and she looks even more delightful. Through the course of our meal together I discover she is a vegetarian. No biggie. Even military personnel can be vegitarians. After the fine meal we leave together and I see her reach for her coat. I, like the gentleman I am, help her put on a beautiful full length fur coat. We depart.

[Tygre]

Har har har. Delightful, yes, consistent, no.

[blackjack]

eat the cowz b4 they eat u.

[TheBob]

You never no when a farm animal insurection might take place.

[zenogias]

Hey, Vaarok, cool. Never thought about that.

Males . . . duh! Of course the males are worthless. They exist only to breed.

Now I'll have to look into stopping my consumption of all animals products, where reasonable. Sure, it's impossible to do anything nowadays without consuming some for of animals products, but at the least I can acknowledge the mass slaughter to keep myself alive while I campaign to create a world where such slaughter does not need to take place.

Also, sorry if that means I'll have to actively campaign to put your family out of business. I guess you'd better go to college and learn how to do something else.


Fixed paragraph no. 3 so that it doesn't look like gibberish

[Uzod I]

Heh;)

[TheBob]

I do agree Americans need to eat more veggies, but not eating meat all together doesn't make allot of since IMHO.

[zenogias]

Zeno, you just go ahead and try. And next time you want cheese, you remember this: From our house, we can reach each corner of our property with at least three scoped firearms. You just try and come and take away my cows when you become God.
Damn, Meyerhoff, what the hell do you think I'm going to do, stand outside your house waving a picket sign that reads "meat is murder" and signing "Cumbayah"?

I'm just saying I know campaigning to end the animal exploitation industries is gonna put a lot of people out of business. I want to go after the corporations, not the small farms, because shutting you guys down does nobobody any good.

You know what, that's selfish, sure. I don't want the guilt of killing things on my conscience, so I'm putting you out of business.

No more selfish than knowing about what happens to all the animals and eating meat anyway because you enjoy the taste.

[Beast]

"ooh look, this used to be johnny's leg..."
ROFL!!!!!! :lol:
Personally i think that we were "designed" to eat meat - a tiger (no pun intended tygre) eats meat, why dont vegetarians complain about that? ITS LIFE! we can eat meat; we evolved to eat meat, so why shouldn't we?
I can understand vegans, but not vegetarians.

[Vaarok]

Ok. Fieldtrip to Wal-Mart for more hollow-points.

Guilt? For being as you are? Den'tarra... you are an illogical intellectual oroborous. What perversion of society broke you from what is and cast you into such strange dreams?

Poor sunderling. When you grow wise, I shall welcome your return to the way of things as they are and should be.

In the interim, I refer you to the gloriously succinct post by Walker.

No meat? Tres' chic!

For people that say :"I can't live with the death of a meat-creature on my conscience"

I say you've either had too little or too much therapy.

[Harmanoff]

we evolved to eat meat, so why shouldn't we?

The reason would be because we are the only life form that have the actual option to do so. It's the morally right thing to do.

I don't care about that of course. Considering people slaughter each other as much as we slaughter animals i don't think it matters if you're a vegitarian.

Oh and some people think it's more healthy. Pah! It gives you gas i tell you...

[zenogias]

Vaarok,

Just what is it you find so repugnant about someone having a little compassion for non-human lifeforms? You just automatically assume that everyone who is opposed to eating meat is just some trend-following nimrod in need of severe therapy.

I guess this is because you've lived with butchery all your life that you've become innured to the suffering a animals.

BTW,

What exactly the hell is an "oroborous." I assume it's an over-intellectual "I'm-smarter-than-you-ha-ha-ha-ha" way of calling someone stupid, but where did you get the word from. The only time I've ever encounted it was in a Final Fantasy game. That means, just to clarify, that I prefer modern tastes to someone else's idea of what is and is not "classic."

[Walker]

*sigh*

[Ressev]

Originally posted by Vaarok
Ressev, y'want me to ship you a bit? Where you live? Have some burger in the back of the third chest-freezer yet.


Hmmm, If you are serious I will pay the shipping, just PM me - I live in Pasadena, California, USA

[sajuukar]

You know, I don't know of any males who don't eat meat... the only people I know who don't eat meat are those girly, pinky girls that don't wana hut dose cutie wito animos and such... who here doesn't eat meat? I know somepeople said they have nothing against vegitarianism, but I never saw anyone say anything about actually being a vegitarian.

If there is someone here that doesn't eat meat, I rest my previous case, but...

Is it only from comassion that vegitarians do what they do? If so, I know this must sound cruel and heartless, but truthfully, can we say for sure that animals have feelings at all? You can't betray a cow that doesn't know how to be betrayed! And don't confuse that cat's heartfilled rubs againsed you for him marking his territory...

:angel:

[Vaarok]

Compassion? For food?

They are pets when they are alive and not considered as food. If they are to become food, I do not love them less, but they are to become food. Should I wail and gnash my teeth at the prospect of their death and dismemberment into nutrition?

In dead earnest, I shudder to think, referring to walkers' post again, how separated from the actuality of nature you are. It frightens me and gives me cause to despair.

I apologize, but I simply can not understand your value system. I was raised as this, I am inured to this way. It is the way it has been, and to deny that way is to lose one of our few connections to the old ways.

I used to trap. Set footholds and drowning sets and all the works, caught racoon and muskrat and mink and such, and never had pity for them. They were the prey. They were glorious alive, and it was perhaps cold to render them dead, but they were the goal of the task. Their pelts were glorious to wear, and the beavers at least, tasted delicious.

Now then. If we were cast into the ever-diminishing wilderness, who would be at ease with the ways of it? You could answer that it would be unlikely, as civilization is everywhere. And I shudder to that, for it shows that the old ways are already being cast aside like vestigial things, to make way for food-stores and idealists.

"In the battle for survival, mother nature takes no prisoners."


And oroboruous was the snake that consumes its' own tail. Reference to your circular argument.

[zenogias]

And oroboruous was the snake that consumes its' own tail.
Ah, okay. I knew I'd heard that before in a context that was not a videogame.

Here's the thing: if we were in the wilderness, I'd say "Please teach me your wisdom, Vaarok."

Your mistake here is in assuming I'm against eating meat just to prove a point. Carnivorism is just as natural as anything else. If I have no choice, then I have no problem hunting an killing something (I'll be squeemish about the blood and guts for a while, but I'll get used to it). However, right now I do have the choice, and I'd rather not kill something if I don't have to.

Silver Quasar,

There's actually been a lot of research into the intelligence of animals. Read a little on the dynamic of a wolf pack. I saw one thing about how a pack of wolves bullied one of their lower members all throughout the life. Then, one day, it got sick and died -- since that time, the normally playful wolves would become listless and subdued every time they passed the area that their pack member died in.

Even humans don't do that.

In another case, studying whether or not elephant's have language, scientist played the sub-sonic sounds of an elephant that had died of old age years before to other elephants that one had lived with at a zoo. The elephants became quite disturbed and agitated.

Nothing terribly conclusive, but it's interesting to look into.

Of course, this isn't to say that all animals have emotions, but even the lowest will make the attempt to preserve its own life. I, for one, don't really see any reason to kill something that's not bothering me. I have no such compunctions about killing Black Widows and Brown Recluses, however -- in that case, it's me or them (though, again I'd prefer not having to).

[Walker]

Originally posted by zenogias
killing Black Widows and Brown Recluses
You racist, sexist bastard.

[Liberator]

My $0.02.

There are very few thing in this world better that a well cooked beef roast with carrots and potatos. As an example of how unhealthy it is for you not to eat meat, most veggies I know are pale and gaunt and generally unhealthy.

[Tygre]

I hate potatoes...


I don't know of any males who don't eat meat... the only people I know who don't eat meat are those girly, pinky girls that don't wana hut dose cutie wito animos and such...

The guys that don't eat meat are usually just trying to impress THEM. They've got a thing for wimpy, nonactive girls, I guess.

I see no problem with killing and eating organisms that are stupider than me for food (that's right you superintelligent aliens out there...bon appetit). I have found no real reason to favor an omnivorous diet over a vegetarian one...although missionary vegetarians will have you think so. It's all a matter of taste and simplicity over something nice people call "ethics." Us cynics call it "ultrafemininity". For those of you in Georgia, *sideways glance* that means "sissyness."

Frankly, I'd rather kill off some cows than have to eat twice as much weight in plants. Cows are just using up my oxygen...so you vegetarians can get your own planet. Just don't bitch to us when you and all your animal friends suffocate anyway.

BTW I think Squid will tell you that it's nearly impossible for the human body to digest the cellulose in plants...the lipids and stuff in muscle tissue that you eat is a lot better for someone that will get up and do something physical rather than sitting preaching anti-meat on the internet all day. I'm not reffering to anyone here...but there are a few people like that on other boards I've been to.

[TheBob]

Originally posted by zenogias
Just what is it you find so repugnant about someone having a little compassion for non-human lifeforms?

I honestly don't have compassion for slugs, jellyfish, or anything that can live with it's central brain removed. Yes, even George Dubya Bush.

[Walker]

A theatre near my what?

[zenogias]

A theatre near my what?
Near your ass.

*whaps Walker upside the head with the baka-stick because he can't spot typos*




And for those who don't anything about the Japanese language, "Baka" means "stupid" and the baka stick is, in anime humor, a something people whacked upside the head with when they do something particularly dumb.

;)

[Alpha_1]

Some observations for all the vegitarians out there.

The world would resort to war far more often if we were all vegitarians. Why do I say that? Lets take a look.

Meat providing animals consume plant material humans can not digest for sustinance. This plant material is used as a crop on farms to 'give the land a rest' from other crops. That is to say a plant farmer must cycle his crops in the fields because they each use different minerals in different quantities to grow. If a farmer does not cycle his crops his land becomes fallow (unable to grow ANYTHING). So for starters the animal feed crops help to keep farm land fertile.

The amount and types of plant life one has to consume to remove and use minerals and proteins from is FAR more than that of a farm animal, our digestive tracts ARE designed differently, this means a lot more types of plants would need to be grown to support a large population of people (several billion). Since the world has a HARD time keeping up with demand of vegitables AND meat of various kinds, how much more unmanageable do you think it would be to keep up the plant life demands?

While the total population that actually eats beef is a small section of the meat eating population, the majority of the world eats various kinds of meat, from snails all the way to whales, so in the long run only an omniverous species can grow to the size of the human race, to be purely carniverous or purely vegitarian would limit the size of the spiecies as food supplies would be very small, causing severe conflicts between competing countries, I.E. war for food.

So you see, while being the moral vegitarian may save animals the pain of slaughter, it CAUSES the pain of slaughter on the spiecies practicing it. In the wild we see many populations of herbivores die out due to lack of preditory size reduction, the populations booms due to no lose to preditors, then the next season the entire population is rife with starvation because so many of the herbivores survived that a preditory population would consume, causing a severe reduction in the herbivore population AND their food sources, sometimes it takes decades for the vegitation in the area to recover from over population problems with herbivores of 1 or 2 seasons.

Omnivores are needed to keep the delicate balance of nature, vegitarianism is another selfdestructive trait (in my eyes) like homosexuality in a spiecies, in ANY omnivorous spiecies. Any trait that forces an increase in consumtion of a limited resource or the proliferation of a non reproductive activity is destructive to that species.

Hope this has shead some light on the subject.

[Vaarok]

I though I had balls to go to church wearing a "Who's your buddy?" shirt from Dogma.

But saying homosexuality is in essence a defect, aloud, without a qualifier... I agree but wouldn't have done something like that. People get all PC on you.

And the population of herbivores thing is good, but not applicable here- we are referring to artificially maintained populations of agricultural animals.

[TheBob]

Homosexuality exists becuase humans have FREE WILL. And it doesn't hurt anyone, so I don't see what the big deal about it is. There to many kids being born anyway, so having some homos doesn't hurt.

[Alpha_1]

You know what PC is? It is not telling the truth, that is called lying. I don't know about you but I'm not gravitationally challenged I'm just plain fat! I'm not filled with inner beauty, I'm just plain ugly. I'm not mentally challenged I'm just plain stupid (okay actually that last one is wrong anyway, lol).

Political correctness is the devils tool, it gets everyone to hide the plain UGLY PAINFUL truth, and candy coat it with LIES!

And Bob, I said they are traits that are destructive to the spiecies, I did not pass judgement on anyone, I did not say it was moral or imoral, and I did not say it was wrong. I said it is a destructive trait for a spiecies.

Also, the agricultural population may be artificially maintained but my friend so is the vegitable population, even more so in fact, because it is the main source of food FOR the agricultural animals.

[Walker]

Oh, dear.

Lock this thread now (I never thought I'd say that) before someone commits the inevitable. Anchor this rollercoaster to the zenith of its curve, before the ensuing fall.

Alpha 1 - foolish.

[Vaarok]

Amen. Someone go summon a mod.

[Alpha_1]

What is your problem with what I typed walker?

[Vaarok]

MOD! MOD!

[bluevorlon]

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

-blu

I am going to lock this considering we have degenerated here, but
If anyone really wants to continue the discussion, PM me and I shall reopen it... If you really feel the need to argue about the moral rights and wrongs of homosexuality, start your own thread,

thx
blu