PDA

View Full Version : The Beatles



Tiresias
20th Jan 11, 7:10 AM
There are a lot of superlatives thrown at The Beatles, and thus I think it does wind people up how they’re given extra special status and honours, above all other groups, and this in many ways is fair enough. Out of the huge 60s groups there are people who go for the Beatles, those who go for the Stones, those for the Kinks, and those who just wait for Led Zepplin a decade later. This kind of tribalism I think is a bit unhelpful, but I’ve always been a Beatles fan and oddly struggled with the Stones (though getting into them now).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXHO7hScOCA

The Beatles made some astonishingly brilliant records, a plethora of brilliant songs, but what I think maybe creates superlatives in critics eyes but doesn’t make much difference is that they were massively groundbreaking at the time. They pioneered production effects (Yellow Submarine was apparently amazing at the time, but now it is the worst song on Revolver, why oh why did they let Ringo write songs :P tad unfair he later made some alright ones) but they were the first to bring in an orchestra, the first to use backwards guitars, the first to make a concept album (though this is very exaggerated, it’s basically two tracks introducing their concept band and then saying goodbye, without them it wouldn’t change the album at all from any other Beatles record), the first to bring in exotic instrumentation, George Harrisson never gets enough credit I think, a lot of his songs are great and he produces some amazing guitar lines particularly on Revolver).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz7IjXu0DfQ

I have to say I am a fan of the latter half of the Beatles work, when they started hitting the drugs and writing about odd things. However there are plenty of great early albums and songs. I always preferred the later psychedelic stuff. They’re veering off the pop love song produced some of the best songs I know of. (Lennon spent the years after the beatles railing about how he never managed to shake off that pristine image even through the white album era, but also against the Beatles, which if you’ve heard Some Time in New York City makes any claims that he is better without them a bit hollow)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY5i4-rWh44

I would say however that Sgt Peppers is actually a bit over-rated, as I said earlier it’s not much of a concept album, and actually has some weaker elements than revolver. I think this was the beginning of the end for the beatles, you can very much start to hear them spinning off in their own directions when once they were such a cohesive whole. Harrisson indulges his drug habit with Within You Without You which is largely considered quite boring (I have a soft spot for it), and McCartney indulges his sentimentalism that would go on to be a scourge of his solo career (though his solo stuff is maybe underrated as a result) on the quite obnoxiously twee “when I’m 64”. The album is saved however by some astonishingly brilliant stuffed up...finished with maybe my favourite song of all time, A Day in the Life, having introduced orchestration into pop they were already bored of it, and used it totally differently. They cut up two different songs, one Lennon one McCartney, probably marking the last true collaboration between the two of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCUeia-nEio

By the time of the White Album the Beatles as a unit were dead and buried. This isn’t a band playing together it was 3 solo artists and Ringo (rimshot ;p) each acting as session musicians for the others and grudgingly at that. (Ringo stormed out of the sessions at the start actually, funny to think he was the first to actually quit the group, but he came back though McCartney played drums on several of the tracks as a result. Lennon’s famous jibe ‘Ringo wasn’t even the best drummer in the beatles’ seems a tad unfair though and even Lennon can’t have really meant it considering he got Ringo in to play on a lot of his solo stuff) Anyway the White Album is the result of them flying off to India in seach of hippy heaven, they came back disillusioned and absolutely hating free love and all of that. The album they grudgingly put together (Lennon and McCartney recorded in different rooms frequently) was...a complete and utter mess, indulgently a double album, many tracks that should probably be cut (though revolution no 9, 9 minutes of random sounds and odd phrases). However I love the White Album because of this, it is nearly my favourite Beatles Album, even at their worst they made so many brilliant songs on it, so many gems. It maybe is a great ‘what might have been’, what would have this album had been if they were as united as they were on Revolver? Who knows, it has gone down as a great indulgence but I am glad of its existence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrkwgTBrW78

After the White Album the writing was on the wall, and what’s more they still made more albums which is miraculous somehow, but maybe down to the fact that back then bands just didn’t split up and call it day without disappearing all together. They tried to go back to their roots and record a new album quickly, the sessions were unsurprisingly a total disaster but an album did eventually emerge called ‘let it be’. This was called their last album wrongly as though it was released after Abbey Road. It was produced by Phil Spector, and to be honest I’m not a big fan, has a few lovely tunes (two of us, across the universe) but not a fan of the added interludes by Spector. Abbey Road however tussles for top spot for me. McCartney pitched it famously (and maybe other mythologised) as “once more, like we used to”. One more final go then, and god did it deliver, but not for too long. Come Together as a post-hippy anthem is great (including Lennon whispering to the drums ‘shoot me’ oooh eer) Something is Harrison’s finest piece, followed perhaps by Here Comes the Sun. McCartney contributes the fun but maybe a bit naff Maxwell’s Silver Hammer and his best vocal performance in ‘Oh Darling’ and Lennon delivers the 7 minute brilliance of I Want You (She’s So Heavy) which just lures you into this hypnotic groove. Possibly my high point of the Beatles, but also with a low point, they foolishly let Ringo add a song and we get the turgid Octopuses Garden that processes a long with a funereal pace that is wholly inappropriate for such a childish ditty. Then since they couldn’t even get along long enough to finish an album anymore they put together a suite of half finished songs for the second half that are glorious, ending not where intended either with ‘The End’ but with a 40 second acoustic ditty that an engineer added as he was literally told by the beatles to “include all our spare recordings, literally” and he could only fit it in there. They loved the undermining of their ending song so much they kept it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTUi9l84fRw

I love the Beatles, they were melodic in the extreme(and underrated as musicians, McCartney is actually an amazing bassist), and it is very very rare to find a group that strained and tested against what was musically possible at the time so much, and with such panache and musical sensibility. They even invented the inglorious spectacular band breakup.

(damn you EMI not allowing embedding)

Kalamain
20th Jan 11, 10:01 AM
I have never really liked The Beatles. So many people rave on about how good they were. Well...To be honest I just don't see it.

At best they were an average band that made average music.
Ok, maybe they did things different. Maybe others may have taken what they did as influence for their work. But is that a reason for me to like them? No.

But God help you if you disagree with their fanbois (and gurls).
I always considered the Rolling Stones and The Who to be much better in every way.

Tiresias
20th Jan 11, 11:13 AM
I have to disagree, for so many songs they spilled out melody lines so brilliant I have to search far and wide to find anything approaching, they were masters of picking up influences from anywhere, the folk tinged influence of the Byrds on Rubber Soul, the Psychedelia of Sgt Peppers and the stripped back sound of the White Album.

They were for all the different avenues they went up always remembered to have a good tune and keep it snappy. The only other band in the 60s who got close to me was the Beach Boys, mainly with Pet Sounds.

Also as a massive fanboy I don't mind if you don't like them, but don't slur people who like music other than you do, we'll come after you with sticks! :). I like the Stones, don't really know much about the Who tbh.

Kirjava
20th Jan 11, 11:28 AM
The Beatles are one of those bands that it's not ok to have a negative opinion of, or, indeed, a neutral opinion, as I have found to my cost. I'm sure they're great, like any band is to its fans, and yes, I'm sure they're massively culturally important, but I could not give a solitary frag about them. I don't dislike them, I just don't care about them. Apparently this doesn't sit well with some people, who will not rest until you too are worshipping at the altar of Lennon and Co.

Tiresias
20th Jan 11, 11:33 AM
This isn't meant to be a discussion of beatles fans, but of the beatles, it's fine to be annoyed at being lambasted for not liking them, that is very annoying, but no-one here was saying you have to like them at all. If the discussion keeps going on like this I will be deleting posts as I want people to be able to discuss bands and their output.

edit: if that came over a bit hostile sorry, I didn't mean this forum to be a poll of who in the forum likes which music, I more want actual discussing of it, and that's what I meant in the rules when saying you don't like a genre or whatever a thread covers in it's entirity don't post, because I don't think discussion is possible if you don't like any of it.

OhJohnNo
20th Jan 11, 11:36 AM
I was rather neutral towards the Beatles for a goodly while. This was because I had - shamefully - never listened to any of their songs until I was about 14. I then heard a CD - and while I remember being impressed by all of them, the one that sticks in my mind was this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WxROl6lQcQ

It was stuck in my head for a while, and I did like it quite a bit. So eventually, I went looking for another one of their famous songs:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42luHhrsNhg

...And it was awesome. I love it! I love the Beatles now. They're not quite up there in the top tiers with Yes and Madness (my favourite bands ever, though I know they are of a very different style to the Beatles) but I wouldn't mind having them on my iPod if I get round to it. Which I never will, knowing me :p.

Tiresias
20th Jan 11, 11:46 AM
I love I am the Walrus, written by Lennon in response to a schoolboy writing to him about how the teacher was making them interpret beatles song lyrics, so Lennon wrote one deliberately to wind up people trying

reki
20th Jan 11, 12:42 PM
I remember seeing this a while back:


http://player.vimeo.com/video/11237479

Which is the Beatles tribute band, The Fab Faux, playing side 2 of Abbey Road. There are very few recordings of The Beatles playing anything live after their early stuff (except the short rooftop concert), because they didn't have the amplification capabilities back then to be heard over all the screaming. So this vid is interesting, because you can see the complexity of The Beatles compositions in a live environment.

I'm one of those who loves The Beatles and The Stones. I think you can do both, can't you? :p

Tiresias
20th Jan 11, 12:45 PM
It's also worth noting Reki that they completely quit playing live before they did Sgt Peppers to concentrate on studio, another reason for lack of footage, rooftop concert was an exception heh.

SquidDNA
20th Jan 11, 5:37 PM
I'd like to just step in for a moment and say that whenever I look in the GD and see "I do not care about this topic" responses like the ones given by Kalamain and Kirjava in this thread, I usually say "Well, go boil your own head, because this isn't a thread about how little you care about the topic."

Also, I'm a huge fan of The Yellow Submarine movie, which I'm to understand is some sort of heresy although I don't know why.

Kirjava
20th Jan 11, 5:54 PM
What?!? I don't think either of us said that, I'm pretty sure we commented on what was, in our experience, the inability of Beatles fans to tolerate disagreement on the topic, so leave it out, Squid.

Anyway, sorry for derailing your topic, Tir. Carry on Beatling.

Rotlung
21st Jan 11, 2:45 AM
I endorse this thread.

Just a correction, Tiresias, Yellow Submarine was written by Paul McCartney, not Ringo Starr. It's just that Ringo got to do lead vocals on it. This happened for some other songs as well, the only I can remember off the top of my head being the excellent With A Little Help From My Friends.

I also actually like Octopus's Garden (really fun guitar solo to listen to too!). Abbey Road has a fair amount of contrasts in it. Being placed after Oh! Darling allows the album to lighten the mood a little before the rather moody I Want You (She's So Heavy). The contrast comes again (particularly sharply this time) when Side B starts with Here Comes The Sun, after the somewhat apocalyptic ending in I Want You. That said, I'd personally prefer Abbey Road to simply end with The End, that undermining effect by Her Majesty you've described kind of feels a little too flippant for such a record.

The earlier Beatles stuff were good too, though the quality of the songs increases as we move towards the later albums. Quite a few other bands had a somewhat similar style in those times, such as The Who and perhaps The Beach Boys (though the latter took the challenge right over to their Pet Sounds era). It'd be pretty hard to deny that quite a few of these songs were great to rock to too (like I Should Have Known Better and The Night Before, really excellent melodies in there). Rubber Soul is still my favourite pre-Revolver Beatles album though. It's probably one of the more consistent ones before they moved on to psychedelia.

Hive_Node
21st Jan 11, 3:32 AM
Whether or not you personally like them, you can't deny their status as one of the greats simply on how their sound resonated through music so strongly you can hear it nearly 50 years later. And out of bands not even directly influenced by The Beatles.

Tiresias
21st Jan 11, 4:35 AM
Oh damnit out Beatles knowledged! Of course McCartney wrote it...

And I also know how loved they are...they just don't really work in the albums they are in for me, and Octopuses garden does have some lovely guitar but it's just so slow and plodding :P

I'm also oddly addicted to this song, that should be an indulgence as it's biographical of Lennon but it's actually really good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxx-dOHias8

n0z3k1ll3r
26th Jan 11, 9:37 PM
I'm in the odd position that I find most Beatles stuff ok to middling, EXCEPT for Hey Jude, which I absolutely adore. I guess that makes me an extremely specific Beatles fan.

JAL-18
26th Jan 11, 9:51 PM
I love "Here Comes The Sun," "Let It Be," "Across The Universe" and "Hey Jude." I'm in the camp that thinks the Beatles are really good, not to fanboy levels, but damn, they put out a lot of classic good songs. (They also put out a lot of droning terrible stuff - I like Beatles songs more than I like Beatles albums, cause then I can cherry-pick)

Pegman
30th Jan 11, 4:26 PM
The Beatles are one of those iconic bands, who many bands will credit as the forefathers of their genres. They helped popularise the Rock genre, which then gave rise to hundreds of other genres now spread across the world. I personally believe that their strength lies in their ability to appeal to almost anyone; the majority of their songs are 'foot-tapping' to say the least, and a lot of their songs are just downright catchy.

Such tunes as Help!, Hard Day's Night, Yesterday, Eleanor Rigby, Yellow Submarine, I am the Walrus, Get Back, Here Comes the Sun, Come Together and The Long and Winding Road particularly stand out for me. I would have to say, as a whole, I prefer the Beatles' older tracks, which seems to be less common. I just think that when they moved into the whole Psychedelic Rock aspect of their music, it started to lose some of its magic, and quite frankly, I think they got weird. Saying that, I do love a lot of the songs on the album Let It Be, but they lost some of the weirdness during that record - maybe it's got something to do with the tension between the four men at that time, dunno.

Saying that, I do love the Beatles - they're a highly influential group who pushed the boat out in terms of music, and helped give rise to many of the genres I now listen to.

Tiresias
5th Feb 11, 7:34 AM
I'm not a big fan of Let it Be either tbh, I think there was something lost later and some of the songwriting did get looser...I think this is why Revolver is so highly regarded by both camps I think, before it went too far psychedelic but also past lots of...slightly cheesy love songs.

Early stuff like I'm a Loser, Hard Day's Night is fantastic though