Couple of things to fix on the pc version if you can before release

[clippa]

I imagine this will fall on deaf ears but I played the demo and it was brilliant so I thought I'd come and post just in case :D

In order of importance

- The field of view is far far too low for a pc game, needs to be around 100. Ideally players should be able to adjust it to their liking in the options
- the mouse look and aim down the sights ratio is 1:1. Ideally, players should be able to change the ratio themselves. Looking down the sights should have a lower sensitivity than looking around.
- I had to push the mouse sensitivity right up to 100% to get a decent speed. 100% should be a lot faster
- fast changing weapons with the number keys still brings up the big radial selection thing which blocks your view completely for a few seconds totally negating the whole point of quick changing.

You got a lot of things right though and the demo is brilliant.

I understand that the pc version won't have dedicated servers though, if this is so, the multiplayer will be dead after the first week. I strongly urge you to reconsider giving people the ability to run dedicated servers.

[LoweGear]

You know, it might be better to post this on the official Space Marine forums (http://www.spacemarine.com/forum), FYI. :)

[clippa]

Thanks mate :D Thought this was it.

[Misiok]

1-4 used for weapons isn't fast changing. It's just weapon switching. You use your mouse wheel for fast changing :P

[Pocktio]

Dead within a week huh. Sure, what other games have been killed by not having dedicateds within a week?

Fov can likely be changed in the config files. I have never had a problem with it though, afaik it is just a very fussy pc elitist option. The other options too. They would be cool but they just seem very.....fussy. I dont think I have eve

[Mnementh]

afaik it is just a very fussy pc elitist option

You are so very wrong. Its pretty important for people who actually have issues with nausea/headaches/sore eyes when playing games with a FOV that is just too low (based on distance from screen, PC users are obviously sitting much closer than their console counterparts and need a higher FOV to keep the FOV natural to that position).

[Mangoose]

Huge radial weapon UI is NOT necessary. If anything, it will discourage weapon swapping during hectic multiplayer.

Do you want to play a platformer where every time you reach an edge, a huge display pops up "Press A to jump!"

[Sun]

I can't even play this game, there isn't even a tech support out for it. Hell out of 423 views I only got one reply along with a warning.

[Chris]

Agree with all of OP's points. Enjoyed the gameplay from the demo but everything the OP brought up made me feel like I'm playing a port rather than a true multi-platform release. For example a radial overlay is completely redundant when I'm using my mouse wheel to select weapons.

[Pocktio]

As I said FOV can usually be changed. It's such a small option I don't see why you could view it as standard, sure it would be nice but not really necessary.

Also look:aim speed ratio? Really? Name one game that has that as an option, please. If not having that makes it a console port I'm just going to lol, that is really fussy.

[Chris]

As I said FOV can usually be changed. It's such a small option I don't see why you could view it as standard, sure it would be nice but not really necessary.

Changing the field of view is not a standard option, but WH40K:SM does not use the standard field of view. I will grant you that I've never played a game where iron-sights sensitivity is individually adjustable, but then again in most games the iron-sights sensitivity isn't identical to regular mouse look AFIAK.

[Ewokz]

It there anyway to increase the resolution to 1900x1080 atm? Or edit specific visual elements? If not then that needs fixing, though I'm guessing the demo just misses that stuff out and it'll be in full release.

[BigSteve]

change the aspect ratio, then you can increase the res.

[ContractHitman]

May sound harash this but this game wont do that well on PC as it just isnt a game made for PC users, it made for console gamers.

So with this in mind, there is very little you can do with saying x and y needs changing as they dont really care too much about PC games but more the console gamer in mind.

console game wise this should do quite well, though its rather dated feel at times when you consider other console games in simular nature.

Main issues are the lack of proper combat animations, compare this game to Gears of war, which it will be compared too, the animations are very lacking in melee, with the same old "bot" style Ai being spawned over and over it a shame given how much the 40k world is all about depth of character.

need more animations for melee ect and different styled "bots"

[Pocktio]

Gears of War has better animations? Seriously, I know you may prefer them but the animations in Space Marine are top notch.

GoW melee = smash with weapon or rev chainsaw. Really varied and not at all old. Consider SM having light, heavy and stun attacks and you already have a better melee system.

Also dated? This is the only game of it's kind, how can something that has never been made feel dated?

You know some specific examples would let me understand your vague, unsupported accusations. As it is most of the people who say 'SM will be rubbish, it's a console game port blah blah blah' just say that it will fail, rather than giving examples of games which have suffered the same way in the past.

As it is it certainly feels like Relic have really considered their PC version. Just look at the amount of PC specific options in the demo. I can't recall a demo ever being such fiddlable, now compare to other game demos and we already have a good precedent for the whole version, no?

Of course every time we get an inch PC gamers demand a mile....

[Ewokz]

change the aspect ratio, then you can increase the res

Max im getting with that is 1380x780 (?), cant seem to get any higher without it messing up the screen (ie the 1600x1000 option is borked due to my screen dimensions); numbers maybe a bit wrong but there around that res.

[Kam!kazee]

Ewokz if your screen is a 1920x1080, set aspect ration to 16:9 ind the settings and then you can select that res.

[Ewokz]

Cheers Kam!kazee :)

[Frigidair44]

FOV is very important to PC gaming for games of this nature. The mouse camera plus closeness to the screen is getting tiresome for me and giving me a headache. If there is a way to edit it in the final version, I will be editing mine.

The demo is brilliant, but taking down those nobz are a bitch. They break skulls in hard mode @_@

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Yeah I agree with the hard mode thing. Once again, relic has gone the lazy route of just tweaking damage values and not giving a creative difficulty increase. For example, the enemy could use a mix of different units with combined arms, and the AI could fight smarter rather than just taking more hits to kill/two shotting the player with nob melee.

It's not at all hard to make the AI more challenging by introducing better enemy units earlier in Hard mode rather than just making the orkz do 2 x damage while making the orkz take 0.5 damage. Gives a completely different feel to the game and kills immersion.

[Akranadas]

It's a Demo of the first couple of levels Gabe, other enemy types appear in the later game. Hell, the fight before the elevator has you fighting 4 enemy types: Gretchin, Shoota Boyz, Boyz and 2 Nobs.

[Mirage Knight]

The demo is brilliant, but taking down those nobz are a bitch. They break skulls in hard mode

Considering that in TT they have double the health of a normal Space Marine and are just as strong, not to mention these ones are equipped with 'Uge Choppas that boost strength, yeah - they should be fairly nasty.

I think further judgement should be reserved for when the full game is released.

[Thorno]

Hard difficulty against Orks is perfect as it is IMO. Everything except gretchins hit hard, even regular Boyz do as I'd hoped and they just rush at you roaring and flailing in huge numbers. The advantage you have over them is your weapons and tactics.

Against an enemy like Chaos, I agree with GG and the rest, I hope its not just a damage/health increase, I want to be fighting Chaos Marines that are almost equal in power to me. (Though I doubt it would be that hard.)

[Imperial Honour]

Ideally those who design and script the levels would have time to make the gamer harder through methods other than just statistical adjustment. However, at least Hard mode on Space Marine has some sensibility in the demo, nothing like getting one shotted by Eldar Seer Council like in Dawn of War II, yes Melee Nobz can ruin your day but the tools are there to easily do the same to them (even in melee). If Relic Entertainment had the time, money and resources I am sure they could make an interesting difficulty system, but as it is once they finish designing and scripting one level they in all probability move on to creating the next one. As while making maps have a "replayability" factor can be a good thing at the same time it takes away time from creating new levels, since Level Designers can be expected to create and script maps. Not saying that is how Relic does it, but it is often beneficial (or a requirement) to have knowledge of scripting in Level Design.

So to sum it up; yes improvements to how Relic do difficulty levels would be excellent, but there will always be a balancing act between the quantity of content and the quality of content, and when it has to be done by. Also, what Akranadas said, the demo is early on in the game and as those who went to the Community Event(s) can testify as the game progresses you face a wider range of enemies that will test your skills further then before. So reserving full judgement for until the full game is completed.

[Pocktio]

It's not at all hard to make the AI more challenging by introducing better enemy units

Lol what? How many videogames have you made? Are any of them 80%+ on Metacritic? Do any of them qualify you to comment on how Relic are being lazy as it's so 'easy' to make it another way?

[Slow_Runner]

Introducing harder enemies earlier isn't any better than just tweaking enemy stats. Instead of fighting buffed boyz you'd just be running into Nobz and Flash Gitz all the time. Now, which breaks immersion faster: fighting tougher boyz or fighting mobs of Nobz over and over and over with no boyz in sight?

Anything beyond the two methods above requires significantly more resources. Plus, playing on a different difficulty level isn't supposed to be a completely new gaming experience. You're supposed to play through the game once with the difficulty level appropriate to your skills. The difficulty levels aren't there for replay value (or at least shouldn't be, especially in a story driven game such as this).

[Kam!kazee]

TBH I don't find hard mode that hard, or unfair for that matter. The only thing you need to watch is when and where you do your executions if you need health. I actually think it's the best difficulty to play on, since it punishes spamming executions.
I actually find nobs don't pose enough of a threat on hard. You either have fury ready and insta kill them on sight, or you approach them with a 3 hit combo so that the stomp-stun hit the nob, then you execute him, nob taken down in 5 seconds.

[Bowkers]

I want to be fighting Chaos Marines that are almost equal in power to me. (Though I doubt it would be that hard.)

You definitely notice the difference when fighting CSM

[Frigidair44]

Yeah I agree with the hard mode thing. Once again, relic has gone the lazy route of just tweaking damage values and not giving a creative difficulty increase. For example, the enemy could use a mix of different units with combined arms, and the AI could fight smarter rather than just taking more hits to kill/two shotting the player with nob melee.

It's not at all hard to make the AI more challenging by introducing better enemy units earlier in Hard mode rather than just making the orkz do 2 x damage while making the orkz take 0.5 damage. Gives a completely different feel to the game and kills immersion.

I didn't infer laziness or lack of fairness... I found they hit hard if I just flail about wildly with the chain sword. It was a wake-up call that I couldn't just wade into battle with these bastards like you did with the regular boys. If you use timing and stunning they can bring them down just like any other enemy in the game. I mean god damn they are Nobz... they did a good job of showing big is best with those guys, showing out much tougher than regular boys.

I had a blast playing it... though as my reflexes are slowing down (I'm 31 now) I may have to play it in medium mode to avoid personal frustration.

[Chris]

It was a wake-up call that I couldn't just wade into battle with these bastards like you did with the regular boys.

If you activate fury mode you still cut through Nobz like a hot knife through butter, even with the chainsword. I found a large concentration of regular boyz were more dangerous than the Nobz, since I still got overwhelmed once or twice while trying to execute.

[Pseudonymn]

Sure, what other games have been killed by not having dedicateds within a week?Let's start with AvP2010. It shipped without a dedicated MP server and relied instead on some hokey game matching system. You waited in the game matching queue sometimes for 30 minutes only to get plopped in a game hosted by a minimum spec'd hardware box in Russia with horrendous pings, unplayable lag, and worst of all a game that was instantly terminated as soon as the host decided it was his time to rage quit - whihc more often than not wasn't very long.

If you had the stomach for it, and most didn't; it was back to the 30 minute wait in the queue while the game sought another "suitable" game to join - or at least the best candidate out of the ones it first took its sweet time in rejecting. And in that time, many prayers were offered the AvP gods that a host who was a little closer to home with a more even temperament might be found for a decent go at AvP2010's MP experience. They most often went unheeded.

Did I mention that Sega (the publisher of this little jewel) dropped all official support - that's ALL support - for this game not long after it was released due the mass exodus it was seeing within it's player base? They tried offering some DLC, since it was already made, but seeing absolutely no positive revenues coming downstream, they pulled the plug.

Although a dedicated server patch was eventually released for the PC, the damage had already been done; it did not end well for the community and people simply stopped playing. Oh, sure there's a hardcore group that might still play, but AvP2010 MP never existed in any meaningful way.

It died before its time. And people saw it coming during the beta too.


[regarding making the AI more challenging] Do any [games] qualify you to comment on how Relic are being lazy as it's so 'easy' to make it another way?Well, from Relic's own library, there was a mod for DoW1 (and expansions) that took Relic's stock skirmish AI and turned it into a real monster to play against. If I may draw the comparison, Clark Kent is to "Relic's stock DoW1 Skirmish AI" as Superman is to the "DoW1 Skirmish AI Mod's" AI. It was that good. I still play this flavor of DoW1 to this day, even in preference to DoW2.

All that without, to the best of my knowledge, simply tweaking the damage tables, economy rates, etc..

My point is that DoW1's AI was vastly improved by a group of dedicated hobbyists and it transformed the game from humdrum-doldrums into something that still manages to challenge and entertain me to this very day in lieu of an MP scene past its prime. In support of the previous poster's comments, if a couple of guys in their garage can do that, why can't Relic? Or to be fair, any other developer for that matter?

[Misiok]

Pseudonymn - Well, AvP2010 had it's own share of bugs, true, and it did fail astonishingly. But not only because of lack of dedis. For one, Sega sucks with game support - any game that dies and Sega is a publisher means it didn't die out of its own fault alone - this is my personal opinion.

Next thing - AvP2010 failed even before it was released. The Demo had to be patched because you couldn't connect anywhere. It worked somehow on the PC, but Xbox and PS3 versions were broken. That did not sell the game more.
Another thing - lots of game decisions did not help the game stay afloat - auto-aiming melee, focus on melee combat while leaving ranged in 'basic', stealth kills, trophy kills were abused terribly - that also didn't help the game, especially since Rebellion didn't bother 'fixing' it anyway.

Another example of a game that 'failed' due to lack of dedi's - Modern Warfare 2. Enough said.

Now, I want to be clear - I also fear that lack of dedi's and mod support doesn't promise much for the games' life and would very much want them to be included, but lets not forget the full picture.

[Pocktio]

Yeah you are right Pseudonoym, they are lazy because a mod team later did something to add to the game.

By that logic any game that has a large modding community was because the devs were too lazy to put it in themselves right?

Oblivion, Fallout, DoW, Total War, STALKER and Battlefield were all the products of lazy devs.

Specifically for AI, it's a secondary concern for MP heavy games like DoW. The SP skirmish scene is much smaller than the competitive side. There's not enough demand for an AI that is superb, that is why you get mod teams doing their thing. They make the fan work that while cool, isn't really necessary for the retail release.

[HeLMuT]

oops thought I was in DoW forums :)

[Malachi]

Pocktio, it's not about Relic being lazy, but haven't you ever asked yourself, why the hell can't they (or, again, any other developers) get beter AI programmers? Because, as shown by above example, THEY ARE OUT THERE. The argument is - it's far from impossible to create better AI, yet the vast majority of developers don't seem to care. I have no idea why - other than the fact games today are adressed to people who wouldn't even notice that, caus eall they want is watch the pretty explosions.

If I was Relic, I would totally hire the creators of DOW1 Skirmish AI mod ASAP.

[Chompster]

because multiplayer keeps games alive these days. Skirmishes don't. no point in putting extra resources into a mode of the game when those could have been put into MP which actually keeps bringing people back.

and yeah, thats what modders are for. adding cool stuff people want.

[Pseudonymn]

I would argue that the skirmish AI is what keeps your audience interested in the franchise after the MP scene dies, as they inevitably do, while they wait for the next in the series to be released. It certainly does for me in the case of DoW1 with the Skirmish AI installed. By far my favorite game in my library. It's my go-to game when I was some action.

Just to clarify, I was not suggesting that Relic are "lazy" per se. On the contrary, I believe that Relic is a great, hardworking development studio that has delivered a great deal of entertainment for me over the years. Rather, I simply wish to mirror the sentiment expressed by other posters here that the stock Skirmish AI seems neglected when, clearly, there is a talent pool out there who have proven their skills in the area, whose talents could go a long, long way toward making Relic's games that much better.

And again, it's not limited to Relic or even the DoW series but appears endemic to just about every development studio that I can think to name. I played through the God of War series recently and tried to replay on the harder difficulties. I was greatly disappointed when the fun I was having turned to frustration, not at the "better, smarter" enemies I was confronted with but rather the same ones that could now simply oneshot me into oblivion. It's stupid and it doesn't need to be that way.

Maxim for the day: "A cheating AI does not a better AI make."

[Malachi]

Also, AI isn't just used for skirmish - it's used for singleplayer, and that is the part which is the most important to the majority of players, AFAIK. A singleplayer campaign with decent AI, and where the AI gets smarter on higher difficulty levels directly adds to the attractiveness and replayability of the game.

Tell me you wouldn't want DOW3 campaign to have a decent, progressive AI for your enemies.

[Red Dox]

Having the game now and played a little, I have only one request for the PC version: I would really, REALLY, like to have a option that all players in MP are mute from start. It is annoying to mute everyone every round and still have to mute ingame newcomers in the game that come crunching and screaming on the server because all of the world needs to know they are eating chickenbones and sound like twelve year olds on a sugar rush.

If I have missed an already existing option to perma mute everyone forever, someone may be so kind and show me the way to find it. If there is no option yet, for the love of the Emperor, fix this fast.

-----Red Dox