"But I am finished with you, singleplayer campaign."

[Ramrod]

Beware, spoilers ahead.

Firstly, pretty damn good game. Gameplay gets a little repetitive, but I guess if you force yourself to use other weapons than your usual ones, you can make your own variety. The campaign is only about 8 hours long, but it delivers a pretty decent 40k plot.

Am I the only one disappointed with the lack of AdMech in a game set on a Forge World? Even fucking Fire Warrior had tech-priests...

I was surprised with the truth of Drogan's situation. I fully expected a typical "evil inquisitor kekeke" plot twist. Sure, what we got wasn't too different, but I appreciate the effort.

So, there's a pretty decent setup for a sequel here. The ending is pretty bad for all three of our Ultramarines (one is dead, one is taken captive, and one is disgraced), and really only the IG came out alright. I get a feeling that part 2 of Titus' story will be much darker in theme than this one.

The Blood Raven at the end had a great voice actor. "Brothers, forward!"

[Moep]

Well there aren't really many options for Captain Titus at the end of the game.. Either he is indeed tainted by the warp (which will result in his execution) or he is a latent psyker and it only didn't become apparent during his transformation process into a space marine or it was the Emperor himself who held his shielding hand over him.

I took alot longer on my first walkthrough but maybe thats cause I tried to find as many skulls as possible on my first playthrough (still didn't find all) and my 2nd playthrough on hard also lasts well over 8 hours now (and I'm not dying all that often. That would actually be a point of criticism, I don't want to sound cocky but so far hard almost seems too easy apart from the battle vs the warboss mayhaps where he could two shot or potentially even one shot me with one of his super heavy attacks).

I didn't find the gameplay repetitive either, by definition every shooter would get repetitive towards the game (cause all you do is, well, shoot people.. and all you do here is, well, shoot and hack enemies in half ^^). The only thing that really bothered me a bit were these unnecccessary graphical glitches where sometimes Titus would hold an enemy into a wall while executing. I believe scenes like this could easily have been avoided by moving Titus 1-2m backwards before starting the execution animation. But I wouldn't say that this killed the game, I still had a hell of a time =)

But I agree, there is plenty of room for a sequel, I could imagine Titus found innocent (even though you know... there is no innocence, only degrees of guilt ;-) ) and going on a campaign for the inquisition (for example) oooooor... he escapes the inquisitorial grasp and actually does turn to chaos and we get a chaos space marine campaign (even though personally speaking I kinda got attached to Titus so I wouldn't want to see this happen)

[Shuma]

Finished it, took me around 8 hours on hard, ironically i found the fight with the Warboss to be ridiculously easy, but the last part when you're fighting demons and chaos marines that Nemeroth throws at you? Fuck that part. The most annoying part for me had to be the train part though, when you have to shoot down an Ork dropship with a plasma cannon.

I thought the ending was a bit weird, i thought the Black Templars and the Inquisition were not exactly on good terms.

All in all i found the game to be average at best, the combat gets repetitive, for a long part of the game you get forced into using x weapons, the story is the generic 40k story that gets pretty much copy pasted all over the place, the forgeworld is boring, etc, etc, but, it is a fun campaign, wouldn't play it a second time though.

Oh and i loved the audio logs.

[Moep]

black templars? Now I admit I'm not a tabletop nerd so I can't recite all chapters from memory either (or distinguish every single chapter out there by looking at their armor design) but I thought those were gray (grey? always mix that up ^^) knights. Would make more sense at least considering gray knights are associated with the inquisition ;-)

[Stingra]

Didn't we just do this 'olol your allies are chaos' bullshit in Dawn of War?

In nearly every piece of 40K literature?

Thank you, Relic, for proving my point about how stagnant this universe is. Would have been better to just fight the goddamned Orks the whole time than use what seems to be the only goddamn story 40k can tell.

Next time, use the Tau and give us a non-Chaos story about Space Marines sent to stop the Tau expansions and it's slow cultural domination of the near by Imperial worlds.

[Ramrod]

Moep, they were Black Templars. The Chapter iconography identifies them as such, and the Blood Raven sergeant you meet even says he came with some Black Templars.

Stingra, you keep your Fire Warrior on PS2 to yourself, please.

[Shuma]

Well if there's a 40k game i can honestly say i'd never buy it would be one centered on the damn tau. Now an Eldar game on the other hand...

[Imperial Honour]

I wish it was Leandros who died and not Sidonus, or if I could put a bolt to his (Leandros') brain and kill him. What a way to treat your Brother-Captain after everything he does to stop Nemeroth, even if it was kind of his fault for unleashing Chaos upon Graia at the same time. Sidonus died a hero's death, may he somehow be honoured in the future for his deeds for Ultramar and the Emperor. Last time I go and save the Imperium from trouble :p

[Moep]

this is something some ppl simply fail to understand.. (that a game publisher won't publish a game based on their niche class they prefer above all others) simply cause apparently it is very hard for some to grasp that games companies make games to earn money and not to satisfy a select minority.

If I (as a game publisher) want to tap into a larger potential player base I won't create a game based on one of the more exotic races either (cause I reckon that especially ppl not into wh40k will prefer playing some super strong human elite soldier over some weird xenos they have no emotional attachment to)

[Shuma]

Well duh, that doesn't mean we should be happy about it.

[Stingra]

It doesn't have to be tau as the player race, just fight them. Or the necrons. Hell I would have been satisfied just shooting orks the entire damn game, anything to keep it from being another spess mahreen vs chaos bullshit.

[konfeta]

The campaign has pacing issues. Jetpack levels are too few/far apart, all the Heavy Bolter staff is crammed towards the end of the game, we get one auto-cannon sequence for about 10 model kills, and the Plasma Cannon is only used against a ship...

They could have made a fine game even with the primitive tools they had if they paced it better. Even something like a level where enemies don't largely charge at you from one direction would be pretty great.

[Ramrod]

I did notice that the spreading out of the heavy weapons sequences was poorly chosen. What they needed to do was put one HW sequence between each JP sequence, and then you wouldn't have noticed the long gaps between glorious Assault Marine goodness.

[CommissarRezail]

Am I the only one disappointed with the lack of AdMech in a game set on a Forge World? Even fucking Fire Warrior had tech-priests...

In dow 2 we already learn that, ad mechs will always be dead by the time you get there. Also i didn't see my damn spirit bomb!!!!

[MasterSpartan]

The ending was good. I thought it was well done how they managed to anger the player against Leandros, I really wanted to see him dead by that point, but Titus telling him off made me laugh out loud unexpectedly. It was just so perfect.
AND YOU...HAVE FAILED.
(THE EMPRA)

Can't wait to see DLC or a future game. It could use refinement, but the overall product is very very good.

[Shuma]

I did notice that the spreading out of the heavy weapons sequences was poorly chosen. What they needed to do was put one HW sequence between each JP sequence, and then you wouldn't have noticed the long gaps between glorious Assault Marine goodness.

You know what could've been better? To actually allow you to keep the fucking weapons and/or the jump pack with you, seriously, that was fucking bullshit.

[LoweGear]

Am I the only one disappointed with the lack of AdMech in a game set on a Forge World? Even fucking Fire Warrior had tech-priests...

Well there is that one line from an Imperial Guardsman in Part 1 of the game:

"We're on a bloody forge world and not a single techpriest in sight!"


You know what could've been better? To actually allow you to keep the fucking weapons and/or the jump pack with you, seriously, that was fucking bullshit.

That'd be a nice thought yes... but considering how overpowered the Jump Pack, Heavy Bolters, Autocannons and Plasma Cannons in the campaign are, having them available all the time would've made the game far too easy.

[Shuma]

Well isn't the game meant to make you feel as an Space Marine? Ie an unstoppable force of destruction? Besides it could've been countered by having stuff like those Chaos raptors as enemies, seriously, not a single one in the whole campaign, what was up with that?

[Gorb]

Stingra, may I ask you why you are at all interested in the 40k universe as the entire universe is centred around "this is how the Imperium, via the Space Marines and the Imperial Guard, survive against Chaos and a few other guys who are also lethal"?

[Stingra]

I had hoped that Relic could salvage something out of the broken, shell of a company it has become and produce something good. Instead we got this retreaded garbage that is almost literally Dawn of War minus the Eldar.

[Gorb]

Oh, I see.

Haters gonna hate, I guess.

[NastyNoodle]

There's one thing I 'was' dissapointed with.

WHERES MY KILLA KAN!!!

Seriously? They included Titus fighting it in at least half the bloody trailers, only to not include it? I've got nothing against companies showcasing the best bits of their games in their trailers, but at least have the decency to include those bits in the game!

[sajuukar]

My theory is that Tidus will turn out to be worthy of being requisitioned by the Grey Knights. How else might the Ordo Malleus of the Inquisition find suitable candidates?

That's the sequel. It will be called "Grey Knight".

[Moep]

I thought Grey Knights receive gene seed from an unknown source (supposedly the Emperor's himself) so wouldn't that alone make it impossible for Captain Titus to become a fully fledged Grey Knight? Also he hasn't undergone the excessive psychic indoctrination Grey Knights have to go through (judging by what I've read it is much more intense and also more invasive than the average space marine indoctrination considering they also get memory wiped to ensure daemons won't find a way in, even thou the latter shouldn't be an issue considering memory wiping is employed throughout the imperium).

Thou I have to admit I do not know enough about the space marine creation process to really know if it spossible to remove the gene seed and then replace it with the gene seed from another source but I suppose that would kill a space marine ;-). So Titus could become Grey Knight associate at best

[Pocktio]

I enjoyed the campaign, it was a bit short and repetitive though.

Now onto my fluff concerns.
The ending, what the shit?!? No way would an Inquisitor dare to hold an Ultramarines Captain like that. The shitstorm of political backlash would be insane. If the Captain was suspected of heresy the company Chaplain, or regular brothers would detain him. He'd either agree or fight. The matter would be settled on Ultramar, by Calgar himself. No way in hell would they let the Inquisition abscond with him.

Similarly if the Titan complex can fall then I don't get how the Guard have held out. It's a goddamn Titan facility, you probably can't get more secure and heavily defended. Then again that the orks manage to wipe out a forge world before the first units of Guard reinforcements is bullshit enough.

Total lack of tech priests and admech personel aside there was little to no company level action. Nothing of what happened reminds me, whatsoever, of how an Ultramarines Captain would direct his company. I get artistic license, but if you are going to do something like that story either make it an Inquisition kill-team or a different Chapter.

On the company stuff - your command squad is a new-ish battle brother and a veteran sergeant? What? The fuck is that, 3 man command squad bollocks. No company champion, no standard bearer, no apothecary.

Guardsmen. As with the Ultrasmurfs I am boggled by the decision to make them Cadian. Cadian guardsmen are essentially the bees knees. They are the best the Imperium has to offer in the way of mortal soldiers. Not only did they not have purple iris's as I expected but they were goddamn wusses. They were all moaning and bitching about the orks and chaos. No Cadian would ever stoop so low. Again, they should have invented another regiment or something. To make it acceptable that they would be shit scared like that. Also tarantula sentry guns? Since when did Cadian regiments use those? I guess they could have appropriated them from the forge world.

Lieutenant Mira. Oh gods why. I'm the only thing keeping my Guardsmen together, I'm gonna fuck off on little mini-adventures with the Ultramarines instead of leading my troops. That is a more minor concern for me though.

The Titan. What the shit Princeps Enoch, grow a set. The Titan Legions are aboust as aloof as the Astartes yet he was basically Titus's little bitch over the vox. 'Do this Princeps' 'But..I, that, I kind of like...Oh ok, sorry, sure. I'll do that' Not at all as arrogant and haughty as a Princeps would be. Not saying he shouldn't have fired upon the Spire or anything but the characterisation is rubbish. Same with the Ultrasmurfs, the guard...pretty much everyone was crap except the enemies. Chaos was pretty decent. Didn't seem mad enough but had some decent battle cries. I levy the usual voice quality complaints at the orks too. No way did they sound orky enough.



There were a good few things done right. The tannoy announcement style things were excellent, the art design superb. The hab blocks were well done. I felt like I was on a forge world, aside from maybe a lack of work areas. Manufactorums seemed kind of empty. The weapons were good, ignoring the disgusting abomination that is the vengeance launcher.

There were a few good set pieces. I enjoyed the jump pack levels, especially the final one. That was amazing. Falling to my doom, punching a chaos lord in the face is certainly epic. Jumping on a Titan was fun. Um, other than that it's all seeming pretty generic. Needed more stand out moments I feel.

Overall, good campaign that is nothing special and totally rapes the fluff. Small nods towards the fluff don't compensate enough for the big annoyances there.

As for sequel, I pretty much called it from the opening cutscene - Dead Sky Black Sun 2 :D

[Shuma]

1: Inquisitor Thrax is insane, and Leandros is a bitch who went for the Inquisition instead of the Chapter.
2: I didn't get that actually, was the war supposed to be going across the whole planet? Or just that particular part of the planet?
3: Agreed.
4: Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe that a lot of regiments use the same equipment as cadians even though they're not real cadians.

[CommissarRezail]

4: Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe that a lot of regiments use the same equipment as cadians even though they're not real cadians.

Yes you are correct sir they do, and at times even the same damn colors.



Lieutenant Mira. Oh gods why. I'm the only thing keeping my Guardsmen together, I'm gonna fuck off on little mini-adventures with the Ultramarines instead of leading my troops. That is a more minor concern for me though.

She wasn't really just running off playing ass grab with titus, more a long the lines she running thin and she gave her troops their orders she had to go to them to get them from sitting like little bitches on their ass complaining about what we will do about chaos. Other than that she had to escort V.I.P people to targets that she need to get rid of a.s.a.p . SHe was mostly doing her job considering the ammount of men that was shown it wasn't much to do. ( Two men guarding a lift with 10000 enemies just down the hall form them, (well guardsmen i hope those las guns are connected to the mofo astronomicon.) (5 men guarding another lift where only one guy is a live standing and making jokes interesting...)



The Titan. What the shit Princeps Enoch, grow a set. The Titan Legions are aboust as aloof as the Astartes yet he was basically Titus's little bitch over the vox. 'Do this Princeps' 'But..I, that, I kind of like...Oh ok, sorry, sure. I'll do that' Not at all as arrogant and haughty as a Princeps would be. Not saying he shouldn't have fired upon the Spire or anything but the characterisation is rubbish. Same with the Ultrasmurfs, the guard...pretty much everyone was crap except the enemies. Chaos was pretty decent. Didn't seem mad enough but had some decent battle cries. I levy the usual voice quality complaints at the orks too. No way did they sound orky enough.


I didnt think that was an actual well train titan crew, or a titan crew at all, i thought it was just a bunch of guys who picked up a manual and went "uhh what this button do".

Also like i said, we already know tech priest die before we get there :). Seriously though, relic seem to have a grudge against making tech priest models O_o.

[Kam!kazee]

What I found funny in retrospect is that the game actually gives you small hints about drogan's true fate. In the section where you get the thunderhammer for the first time (together with assault pack) you find the first audio log that documents his research, and at the end drogan says something like "these logs will be sealed until my death" at first I thought uh uh inconsistency (since the inquisitor is alive at this point) but after meeting chaos I actually saw what relic did there :D

[Ramrod]

I didnt think that was an actual well train titan crew, or a titan crew at all, i thought it was just a bunch of guys who picked up a manual and went "uhh what this button do".

Impossible, to pilot a Titan you need to be able to connect to its Machine Spirit through a mind impulse unit. So either a princeps, or a moderati, or a high-ranking techpriest, or a techmarine, etc.

Besides, he said "this is Princeps Enoch." Princeps is the title used for the commander of a Titan.

[Pocktio]

Titan's aren't just something you can pilot. They are owned by the Legios and a Warlord like that would have a veteran princeps at its command.

Also it seemed strange they just had the one Titan. If the world has the facilities to maintain one Titan it stands to reason it would have the ability to house more, and so why there isn't much reference to the Legion and why it isn't defending the world is beyond me.

[Caeltos]

I am no stranger of the warp.

[CommissarRezail]

Yeah why, didnt they use the titan legions to defend the planet..., and the Skitari dies off, and they are some tough sons of bytches , this is weird. This is a forge world after all... *mind blown*

[Shuma]

Turns out the Blood Ravens were already on the forgeworld before the Orks even came, the Titans just got "lost", or you know, maybe the Titans were on a mission somewhere else and Invictus was new or something.

[CommissarRezail]

Wait the blood ravens was already on the planet? I thought they just drop in not to long ago?

[Pocktio]

Tito Legios leave garrison forces. I suppose a single warlord is a sufficient garrison for most worlds. Still. that means it should be on standby for action. Unlike our 'taking a kit kat break' Invictus.

[mcnostril]

Are Titans built one at a time?
It could be the first of a new batch or something. If I recall, titan legions are housed on the forgeworld, but how often are they shipped out? For all we know it could be first titan built since the legion took the others for a spin.

I really liked the look of the hab blocks.
Depressing as I thought they would be.

[CommissarRezail]

Still its a forge world, and the Skitari should be a plenty, combat servitors , and the like. Not to mention every other weapon in the Imperium, not even a local pdf? @_@ So this is a forge world? I thought they tend to you know like protect these things am i wrong? Oh well guess not to thing about it?

[sajuukar]

I thought Grey Knights receive gene seed from an unknown source (supposedly the Emperor's himself) so wouldn't that alone make it impossible for Captain Titus to become a fully fledged Grey Knight? Also he hasn't undergone the excessive psychic indoctrination Grey Knights have to go through (judging by what I've read it is much more intense and also more invasive than the average space marine indoctrination considering they also get memory wiped to ensure daemons won't find a way in, even thou the latter shouldn't be an issue considering memory wiping is employed throughout the imperium).

Thou I have to admit I do not know enough about the space marine creation process to really know if it spossible to remove the gene seed and then replace it with the gene seed from another source but I suppose that would kill a space marine ;-). So Titus could become Grey Knight associate at best
Yeah, actually, you are right about the gene seed Moep, I hadn't considered that. Grey Knight associate... hahaha, yeah, I like that :D

[Shuma]

Wait the blood ravens was already on the planet? I thought they just drop in not to long ago?

I was joking, you know with how they steal everything that's not bolted to the ground and all. As for the Skiitari, combat servitors and PDF, well the PDF as far as i understand is usually really fucking pathetic and useless so i guess no surprises there that they just died, as for the other two, well, those were a lot of Orks. Forgeworlds are always protected, but i'd assume how protected they are varies from Forgeworld to Forgeworld, or it's as simple as "there were too many damn Orks"

[Kane935]

Is the commander of the Blood Ravens given a name, or is it random Blood Raven #742 that has a chat with you?

[Calax]

On big thing that weird ed me out (even though my knowledge of 40k is basically "ooh that's cool!" in nature) was that at the start of the game, you take off after Drogan and assign another squad of Marines to guard the Titan. The other squad is then never, ever, EVER heard from again, even when you go back to the point you ordered them to cover.

Honestly, the entire last section of the game kinda felt like "OH CRAP! We need to get this out of the door... uhhhhh ok, cut that, that, that, and... THAT, and send it to testers."

Also the lack of a cover system probably meant that Titus shouldn't be a part of the Ultra's... Smurfs generally adhere to the codex which means taking cover.

[Shuma]

No name. But i could swear he has the same voice actor as Diomedes.

The lack of a cover system pissed me of, the whole hype about "hur dur you don't need cover, you a space marine" is bullshit. In fact, the ability to fucking crouch would be nice.

[Imperial Honour]

Eugh, do not remind me of how hard Chaos was once they showed up. I like a challenge but sometimes Chaos does some pretty BS stuff by my standards. "Your a Space Marine and you do not need cover", well I could certainly do with some now on Hard thanks! I managed to complete the campaign from start to finish on Hard but certainly not without using a health dose of cover to mitigate enemy firing chances and damage. It was good fun and a great challenge for sure, but damn do I hate that last battle especially (seriously what are them Traitor Guardsmen packing in their lasguns and grenades?). I would have been quite content with the ability to occasionally duck behind cover, that isn't Space Marine high but waist high, for a slight reprieve from incoming enemy fire.

What I could have done with was some blind or smoke grenade in singleplayer so I could more effectively get in to melee without firstly being killed by everything carrying a gun in the area, running from cover to cover only goes so far in some engagements. It harks back to the whole having to take a select few weapons on Hard thing to combat what show up, weapons like the lascannon are essential when the Renegade Pyskers show up as they strip armour and health like it is going out of fashion while taking many Kraken Rounds to kill. There were times where I wanted to use the Thunder Hammer to go brawling in Melee but could not as I needed more then my Pistol and Bolter to progress. I enjoy the game but I hardly got to use some weapons as I couldn't use them effectively on Hard once, or after, they became available.

[Moep]

@Pocktio

The ending, what the shit?!? No way would an Inquisitor dare to hold an Ultramarines Captain like that. The shitstorm of political backlash would be insane. If the Captain was suspected of heresy the company Chaplain, or regular brothers would detain him. He'd either agree or fight. The matter would be settled on Ultramar, by Calgar himself. No way in hell would they let the Inquisition abscond with him.

While I'm obviously not even remotely as nerdy as you apparently are I still beg to differ. First of all isn't the inquisition the highest authority in the imperium? Or at least higher authority than an Ultramarine Captain, especially if he is charged with having been corrupted by chaos taint with the accusation even brought forth by one of his own battle brothers? Also on another note I've read passages in wh40k books with similar scenes (but then again those books were probably garbash too cause maybe they weren't in line with xth edition codex either if you're getting so worked up over this scene). In the souldrinker series for example an inquisitor is even ready to execute Sarpedon where he stands (and if I remember correctly he was also a captain then.. their encounter ends with the souldrinkers being expelled from the Imperium and declared traitor) so standing before an Ultramarine captain most definetly won't stop an inquisitor from eyeing him down either. And wouldn't it be far too dangerous for an inquisitor to allow for a course of action such as the one you propose? Wouldn't it be much safer to execute Titus where he stands rather than risk corruption of Maccrage by allowing the Ultramarines to take him with them?


On the company stuff - your command squad is a new-ish battle brother and a veteran sergeant? What? The fuck is that, 3 man command squad bollocks. No company champion, no standard bearer, no apothecary.
Judging from the rest of your post you hated every single game of the DOW series too considering I don't recall ever seeing any apothecary showing up in any tactical squads that got churned out by your HQ (even thou there were apothecaries in DOW1 I believe but they were not part of the tactical squad either.. something you point out as one of the major inconsistencies this game has)

Can you even enjoy any given movie or book if that's your approach to all things? I'm starting to mentally shut down when ppl go berzerk over wrong eye colors.

And of course, sometimes the answer to any question like "why didn't that happen" is: "cause it wasn't in the script".

Of course it could also have played out like this. "Orks attack Forge World Graia but due to the insane amount of battle titans present (and manned) during the attack and the massive imperial fleet in orbit defending this very important forge world da WAAAAAAGH!!!!!! ends before it has even started". Obviously we wouldn't have had a game then. So sometimes you have to do things that will apparently send the hardcore crowd on the barricades to create a setting for a story (a story mentioned nerds will obviously tear apart but that might still be appeasing to the average gamer who just wants to enjoy a game).

Edited cause I remembered Sarpedon wasn't chapter master yet when he met the inquisitor, he only became chapter master after the soul drinkers had been declared traitors (humanis traitoris? my latin has become a bit rusty :P) and defeating the original chapter master in single combat (an encounter during which he sprouted spider legs, clearly a blessing from the Emperor, uuuuuh huh ^^)

[Gorb]

@Imperial Honour: if Chaos were too easy, people would be yelling ZOMG FLUFF RAPE CSM SO MUCH BETTER THAN LOYALISTS.

;)

@Moep: let's not get into "lol nerd" arguments. You are posting about a video game on an Internet forum. You are debating the specifics of the 40k universe. You are irrevocably, and beyond the shadow of a doubt, incredibly nerdy :p

[Moep]

damn it you're correct. I've been INFECTED ;)

[Pocktio]

@ Moep - Souldrinkers are an exception, as are the Astral Claws and their associated minions. Neither of them were first founding Chapters. Hell the Soul Drinkers assaulted and destroyed a mechanicus space station and crippled an Inquisition lead fleet. There's no coming back from that. The Ultramarines however, are a completely different kettle of fish. They *made* the Imperium. Guilliman created the Codex Astartes. Ultramar and it's surrounding systems are a bastion of Ultramarine rule. They can, and have, operated independently from the Imperium yet continue to serve it as their loyalty is so beyond question nobody has to worry about them. So arresting a Captain on suspected heresy, before the Chapter gets to deal with it internally, is going to be very very bad for the Inquisitor and the Inquisition. The life of one Captain is worth much to the Ultramarines and the Imperium sure but to sour relations with one of the most respected, powerful and loyal Chapters makes even a Captain seem insignificant. It would be careeer suicide for Thrax.

As for DoW, that was fine. You had a good number of HQ assets, they were all there. Ok sure they weren't Codex representations but I understand game limitations. Ps tacs were built from the chapel barracks.

And yes, Cadian guardsmen have purple eyes. They are the elite guardsmen of the Imperium and they were represented as snivelling little girls. I suppose to the average player Cadian just represents the bulk of the Guard. They're the standard. Except in the fluff they just aren't.

And as for the Forge World falling 'just to make sense for a game' that is still stupid. There could have been an excellent backstory to the assault on the forge world. The residential fleet is smashes by a rok that emerges from the warp obscenely close to the planet, spewing orks all over the place in a 24 hour window the forge world struggles to direct it's God machines to bear. Then the Greenskins start using the best in their arsenal. Weirdboyz, kommandos and gargants. It's a Titan capable forgeworld, the Greenskins would be able to make them and they would explain very reasonably how they overcame the worlds defenses. Ok sure the amount of stuff they'd need to art and code in would go up but come on, they could have tried. I just think the gameplay was an excuse rather than a genuine limitation.

[Imperial Honour]

It is another one of those gameplay or fluff problems since on Hard difficulty the game plays much like a third-person shooter against Chaos when I am involved. Obviously the ending of the game should be hard, hard difficulty should be hard as the name suggests, and Chaos should prove a tough equal challenge - but at the same time Chaos makes it harder to keep to one of the core key tenants of the gameplay that has been heavily emphasised in Space Marine's advertising. The crux of the issue is down to how difficult it can be at times to get in to melee combat against Chaos, and stay alive once there, without using equipment like the jump pack (much easier with the jump pack). Otherwise I very much sit behind cover ducking in and out taking shots at anything and everything Chaosy so I can stay alive, something that the game was meant to at least partially discourage when a Gears of War like cover system was dropped.

It is not like melee is ineffective against Chaos, ergo why many of them try to keep a wide berth of Captain Titus. Rather you can get severely weakened getting there leaving you weak to either countering from your target and\or other supporting ranged troops soon finishing you off with their punishing firepower. What I am in essence trying to say is that what the game ideally wants you to do and what you must do to emerge alive and victorious can be two jarringly different things at times, and with Chaos being as powerful as they are these things get be exaggerated further. I have no issues with using ranged combat to deal with my foes, but later on my ratio of ranged to melee combat was much great then a 50-50 or 60-40 split (in favour of the ranged combat).

[neoskeptic]

Why is a space marine captain equipped only with a knife at the beginning of the game? Isn't a chainsword a sign of rank?

[BrettMan]

Just finished the game. While the combat was a little repetitive, Space Marine was pretty solid. Campaign replayability is going to take a hit though. For a game like this, you expect some kind of XP/upgrade system. I know Titus is a Space Marine Captain and is, most likely, completely upgraded when the game begins. And I also realize that practically every game like this has XP progression, but its better to jump on the bandwagon then to have no system at all. The campaign just doesn't have much to warrant a second go IMO.

Haven't tried multi yet as my new apartment's internet sucks hard. Soon though. Hopefully before Exterminatus.

[mcnostril]

Okay, replaying the singleplayer, I think it went like this:
Orks invade planet in a massive WAAAAAGH, target the titan manufactorum. PDF is utterly crushed, and everyone gets murdered to hell over a week or more, but while most of the local defenders are dead, the Orks haven't broken through the automated defenses and the manufactorum itself hasn't been breached. Techpriests and Skitarii probably went to meet them head on (or supporting the PDF) and got overwhelmed by sheer numbers (when the Ultramarines get there, it's already been at least a week, and it's still raining roks from the sky, so their numbers are rather daunting). Guard reinforcements nearby are diverted to lend a hand, but the orks have turned the very considerable defenses against them, so only a handful break through and get stuck in a war of attrition for at least a few days (I think lt mira mentions it's been more than a week as well - the intro itself says 9 days but the ingame dialog makes it sound like more), which they are slowly losing.
For all we know there may be Titans at the other manufactorums on the planet (in the intro you can see that Ajakis is the only one really being torn apart), but I can't imagine you would be able to use them without obliterating the crap out of the place (although they could probably blow the crap out of the defense guns... Or maybe the defense guns pose too much of a risk to a Titan since they've been shown to easily cleave starships in half).
Then there's also the Princeps and his crew holed up somewhere in the manufactorum, which is probably where the surviving Skitarii and Techpriests would be (and they'd just hold down the fort in the manufactorum while the guard fights outside). There's also a chance that a number of Techpriests and Skitarii were killed by Nemeroth when he took over the Inquisitor (since he mentions in the audio logs that they were involved in his research).

It seems somewhat plausible I guess; unlikely, but eh, it's 40k, stranger things have happened. I'm still missing like 11 skulls though (mostly the later ones) so maybe there's more bits and bobs in there.

[Zallis]

Is it just me, but does everyone aside from Titus and Sidonus sound rather young? The princeps in particular sounds a bit like a teenager, as do the rest of the guardsmen (hell, were Antioch and Enoch voiced by the same person?). Ork voices didn't seem quite low enough either.

NO KILLA KAN? WTF!?!? I DEMAND A FIGHT WITH A KILLA KAN!

Fighting Nemeroth's lackeys was harder than fighting Nemeroth himself. Don't even get to cross blades with the big bad himself, but push him off a cliff and punch him till his head explodes, occaisionally leaping out of the way? Lame. The fight with the warboss was more engaging, if not any harder.

Oh, and whoever said you only find the autocannon once, you can actually find it twice. The first is when you fight off a Chaos assault after Sidonus dies. It's near some scrap metal cover on the right hand side. I, unfortunately, found it only after having killed everyone except a lowly heretic.

[CommissarRezail]

Well, i'm assuming the guardsmen are all teenager considering how Lt. Mira did have to hold their hands and babysit them and coddle them to stand up and look like a solider for about 1.5 seconds.

[Shuma]

Yeah the final fight is shit, i mean seriously? QTEs? I blame God of War for bringing this plague upon us, fucking God of War. I was so excited to fight a Demon Prince in melee combat with my hammer, hell i took the hammer for god knows how long because i wanted to use it to fight him in melee but noooooooo.

More disappointing than the Fable II ending, at least there i didn't expect a real fight.

[Gorb]

You would rather fight a boss with XXX health that one or two-hit you?

Really?

Because I would find that as frustrating as fuck. It seems to me that people are against an event-driven scenario purely because it's event-driven, rather than appreciating what's there. What was the biggest complaint about DoW II "boss battles"? Ah yes, their neverending health and/or their ability to instagib. Even though Space Marine is an RTS, the same applies here (if not moreso, given that you had multiple squads in DoW II, as supposed to your one guy in Space Marine).

[Shuma]

You would rather fight a boss with XXX health that one or two-hit you?

No, i would rather have a fight that's dependent on skill than just smashing some buttons the screen tells you to smash.

[cube13]

No, i would rather have a fight that's dependent on skill than just smashing some buttons the screen tells you to smash.

Like the warboss fight? That sucked. Dodge the charge, shoot him, dodge the charge, shoot him, get melee'd, get turned around hitting the orcks, get hit by the charge, die.

I'd rather just have a cutscene.

[mcnostril]

I didn't mind the QTE so much, but it dragged on too long. The fight before that was hard enough to count as a boss fight so I'm cool with it, but the "smash smash smash dodge" of the QTE went on so long that it completely drained away the wow factor of punching a daemon prince in the face as you're falling off a miles high collapsing structure. And that's quite a feat because just typing that sentence made things spontaneously combust on my desk out of sheer awesome.

Although a proper boss fight where you have to fight the big bad like some type of mega-nob to charge up enough fury to bash his fucking face in and then finish with a QTE, now that I would've like more.

On another note, I have no idea how long the invasion is supposed to have been going on. Intro says day 9, but Mira says that she sent men to reinforce the manufactorum two weeks ago. I AM CONFUSED.

[Imperial Honour]

For anyone wondering about the backstory of the Titan Invictus in the campaign, according to the Insider Series the Titan Invictus is fresh off the production chain and just recently assembled. Whether that has anything to do with it not being brought out earlier to help combat the Ork WHAAAGH I do not know, but I like the small bits of additional information these videos can give us.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjPI88NFkRw&feature=player_embedded

[Caeltos]

Dude, he smashed Nemeroth's Face with his bare hands. That's freaking unbelieveably badass.

[LoweGear]

Like the warboss fight? That sucked. Dodge the charge, shoot him, dodge the charge, shoot him, get melee'd, get turned around hitting the orcks, get hit by the charge, die.

I'd rather just have a cutscene.

Hm? Even on Hard, the Warboss wasn't that difficult if you realize the following:

- He charges in quite predictable ways, and he basically telegraphs his intent anyhow
- By this time your Fury meter charges with each HIT, rather than with each KILL. Thus just keep pelting away at the Warboss with your weapons till your Fury fills up, then smash the Warboss with whatever melee you got.
- You have enough grenades to spam in the arena to clear the Ork horde reinforcements.

If you survive the initial close combat segments, once that Warboss climbs out of the Arena and tries to grenade you to death the fight suddenly becomes as easy as pie, since the grenades are incredibly easy to dodge.

... then again I did approach the warboss fight with a Thunderhammer equipped, so that's maybe how I found it easy...

[Shuma]

Like the warboss fight? That sucked. Dodge the charge, shoot him, dodge the charge, shoot him, get melee'd, get turned around hitting the orcks, get hit by the charge, die.

No, because yes, it sucked. And the Warboss was ridiculously easy on hard.

[Gorb]

No, i would rather have a fight that's dependent on skill than just smashing some buttons the screen tells you to smash.Spamming roll to avoid a one-hit KO before waiting for telegraphed powerup/special attack moves to unload clips of ammo into the target . . . is dependent on skill? Oh no wait I'm sorry you have Fury as well, that makes the fight much . . . less . . . one-sided?

Because that's all an uber-boss battle would be otherwise.

The fact that roll, roll, shoot, roll, roll, shoot is comparable to a set of 'quicktime events' is another point.

[ricolikesrice]

The fact that roll, roll, shoot, roll, roll, shoot is comparable to a set of 'quicktime events' is another point.

a quicktime event is "passive" , the player is exactly told what to do and doing that is a mere reflex test of how quick you can hit the button shown on screen.

an actual boss fight is NOT "passive"

the player s reflexes are tested as well but in *good* boss fights there s more to it than simply timing your dodges.
you also need to look WHERE to dodge because a wrong decision could end your life (dodging off a cliff, dodging into another attack, etc.). in *good* boss fights there s more to it than simply pressing the "attack" button, because the enemy is also moving/dodging fast. etc.

and apart from the reflex test the player actually has to think too, he s tested in how quick he analyzes the situation and how quick he can learn (well of course that becomes a moot point if reading spoilers/ playing for a 2nd time) .... and more importantly how he can do all that while under "stress" .

so in short: while both (QTEs and *real* bossfights) boil down to pressing buttons , thats where the similarities end.

[junte112]

Only if they made the quick time event a bit more interesting. GOW had epic moments during QTE.. well at least better than this one.

But my major complaint is that I can feel no character depth.
Titus, Sidonus, Mira, Leandros.... I mean I think DOW 2 Characters had more personality compared to Space Marine.
oh well... Hope they do it right in the next expansion.

[Shuma]

What rico said.

The fight might have sucked anyway, because yeah, apparently Relic is incapable of making a good boss fight, look at the poor warboss. BUT, at least it would've been a fight and in a perfect world, it would've been a good one. Forgive me for expecting better for the supposed end boss fight. And:


The fact that roll, roll, shoot, roll, roll, shoot is comparable to a set of 'quicktime events' is another point.

What the fuck? It's not, how in the, how the, how the fuck is it comparable? One is mindlessly smashing buttons the fucking screen tells you to press, the other is well, a fucking fight, it's like saying that Heavy Rain's gameplay is comparable to that of any action game in existence.

[Gorb]

You can't dodge off of a cliff in Space Marine, ricolikesrice.

Furthermore, a boss moving faster or dodging doesn't do anything at all if that boss can still kill you in one or two hits. I understand there are differences, however I am saying that in this situation (huge Daemon Prince of killy killy death death) the two scenarios are comparable. Failing the QTE results in failure . . . failing to dodge once (i.e. reflexes a la QTE) results in failure (death).

EDIT@Shuma: opinions are opinions. What you like or perceive to be a "decent" boss fight, the next person might necessarily not. I'd love to know how you would craft the final boss fight in Space Marine so that it reflects the realism of a single Space Marine against a Daemon Prince (presumably) and yet manages to not be tediously repetitive.

[KDR_11k]

I think Leandros was fully in the right with his actions. Titus showed a disdain for the Codex Astartes right from the intro despite being part of a very codex-friendly chapter. He criticizes Leandros for following the Codex over Titus's hunches and of course he's unaffected by the Warp. Killing the Warp creatures isn't really a proof of purity, hell, Retribution had you fight a full scale Chaos sacrifice as a Chaos General if you picked that path. Also I wouldn't touch the Invictus with a ten foot pole (or want to be on the same planet as it for that matter) considering it had a Warp power source plugged into it, who knows what kind of residue that left inside the titan.

Kinda disappointed that I never fought any land vehicles, neither Ork nor Chaos. When the Warboss grabbed Titus's feet through an opening gate at first I thought it was one of those Ork mechs (what are they called in English?).

[DeafMute]

Im not expert on the fluff but at the very last cut scene.
Wouldnt the inquesition put all remaining guard and civilian in work camps for the rest of the days?
meaning what Titus said (to spare the lt) invalid?

But guys, I think you have to take this into perpective.
This is a imo, major release and for what it is. Is quiet good.
Afew libteries have to be taken with the fluff to ease new players into WH40k.
As we know GW wouldnt greenlight this if they didnt like it.

One of my main gripes was Titus and his outlook on the codex.
Don't the UMs sleep with a copy of it under the pillow at night? Following every word without question, thats what makes them. Them right?

-edit
Oh and the Black Templars looked badass! was nice to see the BRs too.

So yeah, alittle repetative but as with all games, this will lead onto another game which will build upon what is present and frankly. Im looking forward to it.

[Pocktio]

Ha yeah. He just corrupted a Warlord. Ok that is pretty terrible.

[Sinogrim]

Yeah the final fight is shit, i mean seriously? QTEs? I blame God of War for bringing this plague upon us, fucking God of War. I was so excited to fight a Demon Prince in melee combat with my hammer, hell i took the hammer for god knows how long because i wanted to use it to fight him in melee but noooooooo.

Atleast in God of War you still have to like, you know... beat the boss instead of just cutting the entire fight and going to a QTE.

I was pretty dissapointed by the "boss battles" in this game. It could've definately used a bit more boss battles (and more challenging ones). They could've even implemented vehicles like the killakan or a predator as a boss battle. Would've been pretty cool if you ask me.

[Shuma]

What you like or perceive to be a "decent" boss fight, the next person might necessarily not.

Granted, but the "fight" with the Demon Prince barely classifies as a fight.


I'd love to know how you would craft the final boss fight in Space Marine so that it reflects the realism of a single Space Marine against a Daemon Prince (presumably) and yet manages to not be tediously repetitive.

Ok fine, first than all you keep the Jump Pack, as the fight starts Nemeroth walks toward you and uses generic boss shockwave move 1 to blast away the crates and cover in the arena, at first you just have to duke it out with him in melee, ranged weapons will only cause minimal damage, however as you hit him he can block your moves and parry them even if you are behind them, you have to tap the execution button much like when you try to execute an Ork or a Chaos Marine to push him back and smash him with the hammer/sword/axe to deal extra damage, he in turn can also beat you in the contest and a single hit would drain all your shield, armor, whatever and throw you across the arena, immediately he'd shoot his warp blasts at you, another one of his moves would be to jump away from you to blast you from afar, if you don't reach him before he stops he jumps at the center of the arena and makes another blast wave, when you drop enough of his health he jumps to the edge of the arena and summons Bloodletters, you kill them while he shoots you and when you kill then you get a small cutscenes where he goes "dur hur stupid Ultramarine you can't kill me" he jumps off the arena and you have to follow him, this time the fight is pretty much the same except you and him are jumping from floating rock to floating rock, here he has more allies, mainly renegade guardsmen on the main spire, when you beat the crap out of him again THEN you push him of a rock and engage in the QTE sequence.

He doesn't kill you in one hit, more like 3 or 4 and his blows can throw you across the arena where you then have to avoid his warp blasts, in melee he'd have different attacks that you'd be able to avoid by jumping away, either to the side or above, ie he'd have vertical and horizontal melee attacks, he doesn't telegraph them you just have to learn to recognize them, ie he tilts to the side that's an horizontal attack coming, he tilts back that's a vertical one, when you're in the air he'd attempt to shoot you down or even jump to try and hit you, and he himself would be able to dodge your moves by jumping kind of like devastators do. And he'd also have a flamethrower like attack,
after all he seems to have stolen Huron's claw.

That's the kind of fight i expected from a Demon Prince, that's how i would've done it, and i don't think it would've been repetitive.

[SPEZZMAREN]

Well, i just finished the campaign and I have no complaints. Just, you know, getting that out there.

But, while we are on the subject, if the boss fight hadn't been "press button to smash his face in* it would not have been that awesome. I mean, come on, that fight was epic.

[SpardaSon21]

The final QTE took a bit too long to do, IMO. I think a fight with him, then a scripted event to start a QTE once he took enough damage would have been better. I kept the Thunder Hammer through that whole level hoping I would be able to smack Nemeroth around with it, so I was disappointed when I got sent into a QTE without the opportunity to beat up a daemon prince with a Thunder Hammer.

[ricolikesrice]

You can't dodge off of a cliff in Space Marine, ricolikesrice.

I didnt claim you could - it was one of 2 examples not related to any game in specific for how dodging in *good* boss fights is more than just mashing a button as you implied. Was this comment supposed to be funny ? replace cliff with other environmental dangers if you still dont get it.


Furthermore, a boss moving faster or dodging doesn't do anything at all if that boss can still kill you in one or two hits.

of course it changes a lot, if a boss is hard to hit because he s quick / dodges alot / has hard-to-hit weakspots it takes the player a lot more "skill" (compared to hitting a immobile/slow moving/easy to hit boss) to go on the offense while at the same time still having to manage his defense - thats the whole "stress" thing i was talking about, which is a completely different level than a quick-time-event where you simply have to press the buttons you are told to press and i m not even sure why we re arguing this. maybe i / we are completely misunderstanding what you are talking about but (correct me if i m wrong / try to word your posts better next time) it sounds like you are seriously implying a reflex test where you press 3 buttons exactly as told is more or less equal to a dynamic event where you have to manage 5+ buttons, directional movement, the encounters environmental design , stress and many other factors ...


EDIT@Shuma: opinions are opinions. What you like or perceive to be a "decent" boss fight, the next person might necessarily not.

shuma stated his opinion, he didnt write anything like "fact is" - you on the other hand did .

[Shuma]

But, while we are on the subject, if the boss fight hadn't been "press button to smash his face in* it would not have been that awesome. I mean, come on, that fight was epic.

There was no fight. You fist rape a demon prince into submission with righteous plot fury. Besides i'm not saying that the QTE part should go(in fact, i said it should be on it at the end on my latest post) what i said was that there should've been an actual fight at the end. Imo the Warboss got a better treatment, hell, i think he had more screen-time than Nemeroth. Oh and i just noticed this:


You can't dodge off of a cliff in Space Marine, ricolikesrice

Unfortunately you can, at least in MP. Many a souls have fallen to the depths of the Hab center map.

[KDR_11k]

Well they let you move and aim your gun independently during the fall but I don't think it makes any difference whether you shoot Nemeroth. That could have been expanded into a full fight with manual melee triggering to punch Nemeroth in the face every time he's stunned enough to let you get close...

[Ramrod]

I've managed to fall off the edge on Shattered Bridge too, even though all the edges have rubble "railings".

In any case, I have to agree that the QTE boss "fight" took too long. I know I was supposed to feel like a badass, but the fight took so long I felt more like I was annoying Nemeroth. I couldn't really feel proud of having beaten him when all I did was pester him to death.

[spartan_x]

Boss battles in this game are simply pathetic - come on let's face it ; they seem do be done for retarded children....

and they are not evin spectacular...they are so dull,unimaginative and without substance,that it makes me think the game was rushed and they were stuck in there just to fill up gamespace....

all you feel like is, that you must go through a preordained sequence where you just have to wait out the end (which is totaly unspectacular) through a lot of dull minutes....

this game was supposed to be , epic, spectacular, blockbuster scale if I remember right...(and it actually is in some portions)...
but how can a big blockbuster experience HAVE NO GREAT MOMENTS AT ALL...???

evin the cutscenes are short and minimalistic...

the closest that this game comes to having epic moments, is when Sidonius dies (which could be alot more specacular, if he would have exchanged a few blows with Nemeroth before he died)
and Tituses speech at the end when he disgraces the young Leandros...

the action from the Titan is simply ridiculous: he moves a few steps and fires his cannon once , on what? an unmoving spire.....and that's it...

the ork warboss teleports/jumps away from you like he was an eldar or Tau...you never actually engage him in melee (which is the preferred orky way of fighting)


having said all that I don't actually, consider the game bad, but C'm on Relic ...that crap game called Firewarrior had more depth and much, much more varied boss battles

[Misiok]

About the Titan and the planet falling into submission - in the intro, in the chat you get to read you basically see suggestions for:
Exterminatus, which is denied
And defending against the Ork invasion, which is denied because loss of production is unacceptable. I guess they wouldn't bother deploying the Titan either because you'd have that number of people not working. Which is just stupid because if you don't want to defend because you'll lose production, then why the fuck won't you think it's a bad idea? Why won't you defend, so that you DON'T GET OBLITERATED and lose your stupid production value?

For being humies with cpu's for brains, they sure seem to run Windows there.

[Shuma]

40k can't into logic

[konfeta]

O.K., I have to say this, am I the only one who finds the title of this thread funnier every time its read? Especially in Titus voice?

[ADS]

My mouse software beat "lord" by pressing 1 button triggering macro. sad.

[CommissarRezail]

Wait , in theory you need, left button, space, and f button to beat lord. Not to mention correct timing.

[Inquisitor Lok]

So i just beat the game.. I rather enjoyed it, and thought it was quite fun. With that being said, they had a lot of wasted potential for epic moments of epicness... i mean its W40k, so theres always room for it.

Like everyone else, i thought the boss fights were lame.. The one with the ork.. was bloody easy.. and the cinematic ending to it was wasted potential.. i mean, i was hoping for there to be atleast some epic ass dodging or actually seeing them duke it out or something.. but he just shoots him in the face, which was just anticlimatic (it also seemed like he blew his face off, but the model after still had his head which confused me) And yea, the last boss was a bit weak (im really happy i decided to get rid of my Thunder Hammer before it :P ) the QTE really suffered from what they all suffered from in my opinion, which was a lack of varity of which buttons you had to hit. I mean it wasnt challenging at all to hit M1 or M2 over and over and over again, it really just became lame by the end, they could have had it where when you get into it you hit 'a' and see Titus dodge a sweeping attack while going behind the ork, then hitting 'b' as he dodges another attempt and finally hitting 'c' to see him wedge his weapon into the guy or 'd' or shoot him in the face or something along those lines instead of the same animation over and over)

Also did anyone else find a lack of autosaves before cinematics that went into a battle and then having no option to skip them as you repeat the section over again when you die... it got really damn annoying at that last battle... i literally watched that damn summoning cinematic 5 or 6 times..

One thing that i was hoping so much for, but new was never coming was the ability to pilot the Titan :( They could have had an epic as fuck scene where your moving it around (as slowly as it would be) while shooting its weapons into hordes of enemies and vehicles (where were they?! - more wasted potential? another QTE could have been Titus jumping around a Killakan or Dreadnought and having to place a melta bomb on it... or hell, just having you shoot at it till it dies, cause you know, they give you a lascannon to fight.. infantry with?) .. and then ending with you having to shoot the spire.. Since Titus wouldnt be able to pilot it, they could have made it so it seemed like he was telling them where to go or something.. If not a titan, they could have put a Predator or landspeeder or bike or Razorback for that matter somewhere in the game to help you get from point a to b while adding diversity..

And did anyone use the vengence launcher ever? I know i didnt.. kind of a dumb gun to give a SM.. i mean when have you ever seen a SM with a grenade launcher? Their bolter is essentially just that, but more awesome and accurate..

Those are the major things i felt were lacking in the game. But it was still fun, and it seems like theres room for a sequel, so lets hope they fix some of the things people bring up. (Also calling it now, next game... Warhammer40k: CHAOS Space Marine ... you know its genius and totally new and intuitive :P)

[Shuma]

The grenade launcher sucked ass, it kind of worked in SP but in MP it might as well not be there, haven't seen a single guy using it and when i decided to try it i ended dead, dead as a skeleton.

And you can skip the cutscene.

[Ramrod]

*snip* in the chat *snip*

IOL Instant Messenger.

konfeta, that was my intention. Glad I got someone with it, mwahahaha!

I have to disagree with spartan_x, though. I thought the bridge battle supporting the Blood Ravens was a "GREAT MOMENT". And the train fight against the krooza, and the Valkyrie flight. There are some awesome set-pieces throughout the game, but yeah, I guess there were also some missed opportunities for yet more set-pieces. Next time.

I wouldn't have wanted Titus to pilot a Titan, though. The game is pretty faithful to the fluff. No reason to put in something that completely disrespects it, regardless of how much fun it would be.

Also, Lok, I'm not sure what platform you're playing on, but I skipped that video by pressing the use key (default E).

And no, Vengeance Launcher was pointless. I used it till the first clip ran out and never, ever picked it up again.

[konfeta]

The sequel should have a set piece where you use the Jetpack and assault a moving tank column or something. How many games would allow you to jetpack around and punch a tank battalion to death?

[Bastonne1]

I just finished the campaign, and it was fun. The boss fights... were anticlimactic and annoying. That's all I'll say about them.

On the invasion: In the beginning, it only shows 4 parts of a segment of the planet being invaded (one of them just HAPPENED to produce Warlord Titans). And considering the other parts of the forge world produced other machines (like Drop Sentinels, Chimeras, Basilisks, Leman Russes, Warhound Titans, etc), where were they? And how was there still an Imperial fleet after 9 days (not the one you come with)?

Wish there were vehicles to fight. I would've felt like a total badass if I could rip an Ork Dreadnought apart and smash the Ork operator in the face with a Thuner Hammer.

[ricolikesrice]

that crap game called Firewarrior had more depth and much, much more varied boss battles

thats a bit harsh, firewarriors end boss was just as crappy as space marines even if it wasnt a QTE.
what firewarrior had however is proper bolters - kinda sad that a game about tau has proper bolters while a space marine game doesnt - mind you i m nitpicking, i barely used the bolter anyway :p

anyway, more varied setpieces (combat against vehicles, better (mini)boss fights ), better level design ... i think the potential for a great sequel is there if this doesnt flop commercialy....the DOW1 and DOW2s vanilla campaigns were pretty meh apart from being 40k too .... but in the addons relic always improved massivly.

[KDR_11k]

A more elaborate QTE is still a QTE. I'd rather have the game use proper game mechanics for stuff.

They could have had you pilot the Titan, nobody says that you have to control only Titus the whole time.

[LoweGear]

Also did anyone else find a lack of autosaves before cinematics that went into a battle and then having no option to skip them as you repeat the section over again when you die... it got really damn annoying at that last battle... i literally watched that damn summoning cinematic 5 or 6 times..


Press Enter to skip a cutscene. Note that there seems to be a short "loading time" where the cutscene has to proceed 1-2 seconds in before pressing Enter works.

[Gorb]

of course it changes a lot, if a boss is hard to hit because he s quick / dodges alot / has hard-to-hit weakspots it takes the player a lot more "skill" (compared to hitting a immobile/slow moving/easy to hit boss) to go on the offense while at the same time still having to manage his defense - thats the whole "stress" thing i was talking about, which is a completely different level than a quick-time-event where you simply have to press the buttons you are told to press and i m not even sure why we re arguing this. maybe i / we are completely misunderstanding what you are talking about but (correct me if i m wrong / try to word your posts better next time) it sounds like you are seriously implying a reflex test where you press 3 buttons exactly as told is more or less equal to a dynamic event where you have to manage 5+ buttons, directional movement, the encounters environmental design , stress and many other factors ...I think you're overestimating the complexity in a typical boss fight.

Furthermore, you are definitely misunderstanding what I am trying to say. I am not saying that some kind of Dwarf Fortress/Portal Advanced Map challenge level of difficulty when transplanted to an FPS (. . . somehow) is comparable to a QTE. I am saying that killing a Daemon Prince that should theoretically two-hit you (one for shields, one for health - should hit like a Thunderhammer, no?) is a tediously boring affair that relies on you dodging his telegraphed attack and then frantically shooting (or meleeing) his advertised "weak point". Which is similar to a choreographed QTE.


shuma stated his opinion, he didnt write anything like "fact is" - you on the other hand did .Please quote me where I said "fact is", ta. I do dislike it when people put words in my mouth to suit their arguments.


Unfortunately you can, at least in MP. Many a souls have fallen to the depths of the Hab center map.I thought it was only Assault Marines that could jump down holes? Haha, oh man, that'd be a sight to see.

Additionally, a good writeup on the Daemon Prince scenario. You'd have trouble scaling it to Hard difficulty, depending on the damage variance going to Hard difficulty, but a good/great writeup nonetheless :)

[neoskeptic]

They could have made nemeroth's boss fight like Gabe vs Azariah. Badass daemon prince vs SM with a daemon hammer. He'd be invulnerable and you'd have to drop it somehow, but once that invulnerability drops you'd have to stun and execute him. (maybe 2-3 times, and all of them different and badass)

That might have been more satisfying.

[ricolikesrice]

The fact that roll, roll, shoot, roll, roll, shoot is comparable to a set of 'quicktime events' is another point.

there ? I do dislike people who cant even remember what they wrote 1 day ago and then accuse me of a behaviour they did - you cannot quote me on claiming "you can dodge roll of a cliff in space marine" like i cant quote you on your "fact". but i expect you already going into weasel mode because the "is" is 7 words apart from the "fact", aye ?


I think you're overestimating the complexity in a typical boss fight.

i ve been playing action games since the late 80s, what do you want to tell me kid - please share your insight in the action genre, i need more laughs equal to


The fact that roll, roll, shoot, roll, roll, shoot is comparable to a set of 'quicktime events' is another point.

;)


I am not saying that some kind of Dwarf Fortress/Portal Advanced Map challenge level of difficulty when transplanted to an FPS (. . . somehow) is comparable to a QTE.

what do portal, dwarf fortress and FPS have to do with boss fights in the 3rd person action / brawler genre like Space Marine ? you clearly dont know what you are talking about.

Demon Souls, Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry and many more .... those are the games that would be comparable and where comparing boss fights with QTEs has to be a sad joke.

look i dont really care whether you enjoy QTEs or not, i personally dont, others do, who cares, the internet is for voicing opinions and you are entitled to yours just as we are .... but if you make up stupid "facts" or posts opinions that are similar to "earth is flat" then dont be suprised if people call you out on it.

and i tried to remain nice for 2 posts but when you completly ignore stuff like
in *good* boss fights there s more to it than simply timing your dodges.
you also need to look WHERE to dodge because a wrong decision could end your life (dodging off a cliff, dodging into another attack, etc.)
and answer with some lame
You can't dodge off of a cliff in Space Marine, ricolikesrice. and then accuse me of twisting your words then there s a point reached where i m not really willing to discuss with you any further. i have children of my own for that kind of behavior, then again my oldest is 7, you are ?

[Imperial Honour]

I'm just going to admit that in general most boss battles are a bit boringly repetitive in their function, because they are usually the same rehashed thing from game to game as far as the gameplay mechanics go. You either end up with Quick Time Events, some repetitive mano-a-mano fight which tests your ability to avoid death blows while you grind down the boss' health, a sequenced boss fight where you have to do specific things in a specific order, a whole bunch of fights against the Boss' lackies in the lead up to the lead up to the lead up to the lead up of the big Boss fight proper, or if your lucky all of the above. I haven't seen a boss fight which has impressed me gameplay wise for a long darn time, but I cannot blame just one person or thing as it is a combination of issues which make boss battles in their boiled down simplicity largely "samey".

Could the fight with Daemon Prince Nemeroth have been better? Perhaps it could have, depending on your opinion. Would it have impressed me if it was different? Probably not, unless Relic found a way to push the barriers and come up with something new which worked successfully. Shuma's idea is well thought out and I commend him for that, but I've seen it done before and I'd be liable to get sick of it on Hard difficulty due to the occasional (or often) perceived "BS" factor of my enemies.

[Shuma]

Indeed, just like you said the problem is that one can hardly be original with boss fights now days. Another problem in this case is that there's just so much one could do with the game, after all the gameplay doesn't do anything "inovative" for lack of a better word, the game is just "good" but it doesn't go beyond that, let's face it, if it wasn't 40k no one would've bought it.

One big problem is the melee combat system, now don't get me wrong, it works and again, it's good, but the thing is that at least the way i see it, melee complements ranged combat, not the other way around, just look at MP, Assault Marines are good but unless there's a "pro" player using one Tactical marines and devastators will most of the time end at the top. I hope next game is something like 40k: Black Templars, then maybe we could get a more fleshed out melee combat system, and then we might be able to get some more interesting fights, involving parrying, blocking, dodging, more complex stuff than "roll and hit", one thing that i've always wanted to see and i don't think i've ever seen it done in a game, is that you had more control over your melee weapon and in a sword fight you could "overpower" the enemy simply by hitting his sword hard enough to send him reeling in order to get an opening, the only game i remember where you had that kind of control over a melee weapon was Star Wars Obi-Wan for the Xbox, but gameplay boiled down to "swing sword wildly until you win" and i suppose some Wii or Move games have this kind of stuff but i haven't played them.

That said, i can't imagine how you'd do it without well, using something like the Wiimote. But i have high hopes for the inevitable sequel, i think we all know it will have librarians, sorcerers, whatever, and that could bring some interesting shenanigans in boss fights.

[Imperial Honour]

"There's a QTE for that!" ;). Been thinking about boss battles for a while and I cannot think of a way of crafting one without using the same old gameplay elements at the moment either, for now. I do like the idea of somehow building up your Fury meter to use for one final overpowering finisher though. Personally I would not have been adverse to Nemeroth finish his transformation to Daemon Prince just as Titus arrives and then walking off in to the warp mocking Titus as the Inquisiton (Ordo Malleus) inconveniently show up. Sure you do not get to fight a Daemon Prince in an epic battle but you can use that to help set up the storyline for future games and bring back Nemeroth for the final showdown if, or when, someone finds a way to design a new and exciting boss battle set-piece.

Still Space Marine is an Third-Person Action game in a new and uncharted franchise so I cannot expect too much just yet, and at least the game is good fun and 40k. If dreams were to be reality though Space Marine 2 would either take the Imperium's Manufactorums to develop, or take until the 41st millenium to release. I just see so many things within the game and the setting which could be done but go unexplored though, I can't begin to fathom how costly it would be to have a well developed story branch for each decision in the campaign. I would love to choose whether to help the Inquisitor or not and thereby influencing how or when Nemeroth and his Chaos lackies show up, guess I got some kind of RPG 'decision making' craving going on. Which harks back to the question of when are we getting a 40k RPG? :p

--------------------

On an unrelated note I got some bones with how Relic decided to work weapon choices, at points in the campaign your second or third weapon slot has nothing to swap with (or you dislike the Vengence Launcher like it is heresy ;)). I am baffled at how some of the weapons swap around at times, like Stalker Bolters and Lascannons replacing assault weapons I wish to use. I admire the desire to force weapon choices on the player but sometimes it felt a bit odd, or some weapons were utterly useless for some segments of the game leaving you limited in what you could take anyway.

Going off the top of my head at the moment, but I remember not being able to take the Stormbolter with the Stalker Bolter or Lascannon in the final fight due to them sharing the same weapon slots (#2 IIRC). All the while I have the Melta Gun sitting in the third weapon slot doing nothing with not a gun in sight to swap it with, yes I do dislike the Vengence Launcher if that was an option. Why could I not swap the Melta Gun with the Stormbolter for crying out loud, it makes more sense in my opinion since both as close quarters assault weapons. There is the argument that choosing between Stalker\Lascannon or Stormbolter creates a kind of playstyle for you to follow but then you are limiting my choices, just because I could theoretically have both the Stormbolter and Stalker\Lascannon equip doesn't mean I'll use both but it means I have the choice to if I want to.

[Gorb]

there ? I do dislike people who cant even remember what they wrote 1 day ago and then accuse me of a behaviour they did - you cannot quote me on claiming "you can dodge roll of a cliff in space marine" like i cant quote you on your "fact". but i expect you already going into weasel mode because the "is" is 7 words apart from the "fact", aye ?You did read my quote, right? The quote that you quoted twice. You read it, didn't you?


The fact that roll, roll, shoot, roll, roll, shoot is comparable to a set of 'quicktime events' is another point.1. "roll, roll, shoot" is comparable to a QTE. Is it not? Those three actions, repeated until the boss is dead, is of a similar complexity to executed a QTE? Or do you disagree?

2. The fact is that two points are always comparable. This is English.


i ve been playing action games since the late 80s, what do you want to tell me kid - please share your insight in the action genre, i need more laughs equal toI was playing computer games back when the dinosaurs were around, what's your point? Time spent playing games does not always equate to proficiency in design analysis when discussing games. Your condescending attitude isn't much better either.


what do portal, dwarf fortress and FPS have to do with boss fights in the 3rd person action / brawler genre like Space Marine ? you clearly dont know what you are talking about.

Demon Souls, Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry and many more .... those are the games that would be comparable and where comparing boss fights with QTEs has to be a sad joke.I never compared those games to bosses ending with "quicktime events". The funniest thing is that Space Marine is meant to be accessible. From what I know of Demon Souls, it's a frustratingly-hard/nigh-impossible game requiring an experienced and developed knowledge of the game. I'm sorry, but Space Marine is not such a game. Space Marine is also not Ninja Gaiden.

I'll say it again; Space Marine is meant to be accessible. Hating on the inclusion of a QTE in a game, just because it's a QTE? You might as well say "lol well this is shit because I say so". Do what Shuma did; explain how you would improve the game. Don't retreat into your neckbeard and spout of references to how long you've been playing computer games for, thus implying that I should bow down before your opinions.

[Bastonne1]

@Imperial Honour: I agree with you about the weapons being forced on you, but you can switch different weapons out (to use your example, to have a storm bolter and a stalker-pattern bolter). You have to have the weapon you want to switch out out so you don't replace a different weapon (unless you are using the thunder hammer/exotic weapon when you are weapon switching, then you're just unlucky).

On the boss fights: Can we just agree that they sucked and that they could be improved? And instead of ragging on each other for certain things we said, figure out how to improve them in the future?

[mred]

On an unrelated note I got some bones with how Relic decided to work weapon choices, at points in the campaign your second or third weapon slot has nothing to swap with (or you dislike the Vengence Launcher like it is heresy ). I am baffled at how some of the weapons swap around at times, like Stalker Bolters and Lascannons replacing assault weapons I wish to use. I admire the desire to force weapon choices on the player but sometimes it felt a bit odd, or some weapons were utterly useless for some segments of the game leaving you limited in what you could take anyway.

for me, most of the time the game offered to change the last weapon i had used. try selecting the melta (or whatever gun you want rid of), then see if it lets you trade.

[Ramrod]

mred has it. Slots 1 and 2 are unchangeable, bolt pistol and bolter respectively. Slots 3 and 4 are the swappable ones. The game will swap whichever weapon you are holding or last held from either slot 3 or 4. There is no pattern to swapping weapons, you can hold any combination of swappable weapons in slots 3 and 4.

The problem is that you have to back away to get rid of the swap weapons prompt, switch to the gun you want to get rid of, and then go back to swap your gun. If you do it while the prompt is up, it won't change. Pretty rookie mistake there, Relic.

[Imperial Honour]

I may have encountered a bug then, as I tried doing just that during the campaign and it wouldn't let me do it for whatever reason it deemed logical at the time (yes I tried equipping the slot 3 and 4 weapons before changing weapons, even before I got anywhere near the weapons and ammo). I'll give that another try when I do another campaign playthrough later on, likely after the patch at the earliest. Make that a non-complaint once my game decides to behave then, I still have a minor complaint about being shoehorned in to certain weapon builds on Hard for certain fights but that may have just as much to do with Hard difficulty and how I play the game as the design choices taken. Or rather, certain weapons make certain fights much easier to complete, which on Hard encourages you to take them above all other weapon options lest you get involved in a massive gunfest of attrition. However, as much of a complaint as it can be I cannot blame Relic for wanting to mix things up by getting you to try the different weapons so it is one of those good and less good things.

Using the Lascannon when on the Titan Invictus would be a prime example though, since if you headshot the Tainted Psyker as he appears you effectively end that fight right there no questions asked. If you decide to use a different weapon you can end up with an entirely different fight on your hands, one much harder then if you use the Lascannon off the bat to end it in something like three seconds. Which may be another bug in all honesty, since when I practically instantly killed the first Tainted Psyker the second did not bother showing up and the Chaos Drone was no where to be seen (as in having to fight it). I kind of just reiterated some of what I said last post but I was searching for an example to demonstrate what I meant.

[ricolikesrice]

Can we just agree that they sucked and that they could be improved? And instead of ragging on each other for certain things we said, figure out how to improve them in the future?

sure. let me start with saying that i m not against the inclusion of a QTE in a finishing move. i dont need em (might as well watch a cutscene without mashing buttons) but they wouldnt bother me there.

REPLACING a bossfight with a QTE however is similar to watching a football match and when its the 89th minute, the score is 2:2 and both teams are even ..... and then they suddenly stop chasing the ball and play rock, paper, scissors to decide who wins the match. i m pretty sure such a moment would be "EPIC LOLOLOL" to many but it would be a kick in the nuts for all football fans similar to how a QTE in an action game replacing a boss fight is a kick in the nuts for all fans of the action genre.

that being said i m often reading the weird excuse of "how could titus stand a chance against a daemon prince in a real fight without said fight feeling akward" ...... well, i dunno, maybe in the same way it has been repeated a dozen times in the warhammer fiction (black library books, codexi etc. ) ? by not fighting him alone ?

since we can probably all agree on that "realistically" (:spin:) he would/should tear titus apart in two hits ..... why not make it so that titus gets more "hitpoints" in the form of allies ? so pretty much everytime you mess up in the fight, Nemeroth wouldnt instagib you but instead throw you away/ stun you and kill one of your allies and only when they are all dead , you d be next. granted, thats a bit of an action cliche that the evil guy always saves the hero for last and only loses because of that ... but it sure beats not even trying a fight.

to sum it up:

nemeroth should fight like the demi-god he is, fast, hard to hit, hitting like a truck, laughing off hits that would flatten even astartes ..... his arrogance ( not killing titus when he has the chance to but "playing with him") would be his weakness though and as he kills ally after ally you could finally start wearing him down and finish him off with righteous fury (which could very well be the QTE scene thats already in).

the "challenge" of this fight would be

a) avoiding to get hit by what could be many different attacks requiring different dodging tactics, i.e. simply pushing dodge wouldnt be enough as you have to identify which attacks he s using.
-attack 1 could have enough reach that dodging to the right would still get you hit and only dodging left d avoid the damage
-attack 2 could be the opposite of attack 1 (not very creative i know :p)
-attack 3 could be a feint where you take more damage from the followup attack if you are tricked into dodging... and not dodging would lead to only minimal damage (or maybe even open a weakness in his defence for you to exploit)
etc. etc. etc.

b) keeping your allies alive, each time you took enough damage nemeroth would throw away/stun and mock titus while he exectutes one of them. in the meantime you regenerate your health but you lost an ally and once they are all down you ll be killed for good.

c) not only trying to avoid damage but also trying to damage the enemy, who would be extremely hard to hit / laugh off most of your hits. maybe some of your allies could be heavy weapon wielding ones who cause nemeroth more pain than your attacks do , so your primary form of damage would be keeping them alive.

...

and of course, like the whole game, just how challenging this is could be tied to the difficulty level. if someone choses to play on easy it shouldnt take him more than 1 or 2 tries before he beats the boss if he s unfamilar with action games. but someone playing on hard should get a good challenge.

this could be adjusted via how many allies you get to help you in that fight (which would both increase your survivability and offense as they soak up the damage intented for you and deal damage to him too ), many on "easy", few on "hard". furthermore it could be adjusted by how the boss "cycles his attacks", i.e. on easy he would predictably cycle through attack 1, attack 2 and 3 while on hard he could randomize them, so dodging wouldnt be a matter of mere timing but also being able to identify which attacks he s using from his animations.

[Bastonne1]

@ricolikesrice: I agree that Titus should rightfully have been torn apart by Nemeroth the half-Daemon Prince. I also think that it would have been way cooler (and made a hell of alot more sense) if it was a real fight, with lots of allies and enemies (especially Leandros, so we wouldn't have him running away like a coward and being the Inquisition's bitch).


REPLACING a bossfight with a QTE however is similar to watching a football match and when its the 89th minute, the score is 2:2 and both teams are even ..... and then they suddenly stop chasing the ball and play rock, paper, scissors to decide who wins the match.

This. That's so true.

[Thorno]

Mistake 1: QTE for boss fight

Mistake 2: Making a poor QTE

Nothing we can do about it now, but hopefully they will take note for the sequel.


So, there's a pretty decent setup for a sequel here. The ending is pretty bad for all three of our Ultramarines (one is dead, one is taken captive, and one is disgraced), and really only the IG came out alright. I get a feeling that part 2 of Titus' story will be much darker in theme than this one.

Agreed. I'm hoping for a game full of Chaos vs Loyalist choices.

[Karimloo]

EDIT: I had a reply from Shuma here. It didn't go through. ALSO BOLTERS DON'T FEEL LIKE BOLTERS AT ALL.

SEE SHUMA? SEE EVERYONE? I FUCKING TOLD ALL OF YOU! (Wrote a thread about it a while ago)

See this game does have regeneration! The Iron Halo Shields. So basically, I'm low on health, OH SHIT CAN'T REGEN, Run. Shit goes down two ways.

Can I execute? Yes. Okay, keep playing. No? Fuck you, you got hounded on by 2 Havocs, and 2 Champion Chaos. Go fuck yourself.

And when you die? WHAT THE HELL? I RELOAD BACK AT THE ELEVATOR? WHAT IS THIS? MASS EFFECT? FFS.

Oh best part, Here, take this Plasma Cannon, shoot that Dropship. Don't take cover, you're a SPESS MEHREEN. Die. Die. Die.
^ Finally take cover. Oh shit that was easy. Relic what the fuck.

Press B execute when low on health, takes 50 milleniums to fucking kill the guy to regen health. Rokitt Launcha kills you. Infact Rokkit Launcha's fucking do insane damage. Infact, you as a SPACE MEHREEN take damage like a bitch. Either make the game Godmode, or give me Cover.

Another part, OUT OF FUEL. What in the shi-

BTW. I loved the game. Had alot of fun.

[Shuma]

You say many things, but i see no evidence. NONE, so hah!

No but seriously i agree, the hype was bullshit, if you don't take cover you might as well be giving up, at least on hard. And:


Oh best part, Here, take this Plasma Cannon, shoot that Dropship. Don't take cover, you're a SPESS MEHREEN. Die. Die. Die.
^ Finally take cover. Oh shit that was easy. Relic what the fuck.

By far, the hardest part of the game imo, i don't know on other difficulties but on hard the dropship has some deadly aim, even when taking cover it will be able to shoot you through the gaps between the metal plating.

[Snakeb1te]

The final QTE with the boss was fine with me. Why? Because killing the warboss seemed like a long, dragged out affair. Attack the boss (whilst getting your armour and hp stripped away) then heal up with some free sluggas and gretchin and repeat. The QTE might have been somewhat easy, but at least it was a bit more of an "epic" finish, as opposed to just picking the hammer and swinging for about 10 minutes.

That being said, it could have been done better, far better. Perhaps with more to do, or more QTEs, not just space, right click and left click.

[Zallis]

I agree that the fight with the warboss was a bit lame, mostly because you basically had to avoid him. Getting into melee with him basically meant you hit him twice then rolled away as he raised his arm and slammed it into the ground. Melee with that guy seemed more like I was poking a stick at some slow, fat, blind idiot. Shooting at him, I didn't get the feeling that I was fighting a warboss, but rather a box that lashed out randomly at you and charged sometimes. It only got interesting when he did his minigun sweep thing, and the novelty wore off once I figured out you could roll under it.

[guardsman lover]

The Blood Raven who spoke to you did have a name. It was Corvus. I forgot which post I'm referring to in this thread.

I did get bored seeing the same old execution with the thunder hammer.

[Pocari]

It was SQUAD Corvus.

[Uncle Benny]

I did get bored seeing the same old execution with the thunder hammer. You wha? You got bored of seeing the "lift-your-chin-so-I-can-play-cricket-with-your-head"? (Baseball for us in the USA, but it's originally a Brit game, so...)


I agree that the fight with the warboss was a bit lame, mostly because you basically had to avoid him.Sames here. Oddly felt like I was playing Batman: Arkham Asylum, whenever your fighting the giant thugs who roar, charge, you roll to avoid, then beat on them. I wonder why it felt so familiar...?

[Codex]

Arkham Asylum's combat was far superior though- only its boss fights were a bit lame.

[Arbit]

I love this thread title so much.

The worst part about the QTE event is that I was too busy looking for the button prompts to see what was going on! I could see that Titus was punching and dodging and stuff but mostly I was focused on Nemeroth's groin because that's where the prompts pop up.

I'd say Relic's top priority for SM2 should be making 1 on 1 melee fights more engaging, that way they won't have to sub QTEs in for real boss fights.

[Zallis]

I actually had a distinct moment of deja vu when fighting the WB. Reminded me so much of fighting that dude (Bane?) in Arkham Asylum, right down to giggling maniacally as the warboss mashed his allies who were in the way.

Also, can you aim the bolter when you're falling? I remember trying, but nothing really seemed to work. It makes little difference in the end, since you catch up with the DP fairly quickly and start the face-mashing contest, but it seemed a little unusual.

[konfeta]

You can, but the reticule is invisible and the screen doesn't change. It's basically like an on-rail shooter aiming.

[TrashMan]

It doesn't have to be tau as the player race, just fight them. Or the necrons. Hell I would have been satisfied just shooting orks the entire damn game, anything to keep it from being another spess mahreen vs chaos bullshit.

Why would that be bulls***? Because you hate it?
I surely hope you have some better reasoning than that. Orks are the most numerous and constant threat, and Chaos is always trying to poke around. They are the most likely enemy one would encounter.
And I like killing both of them. I do not enjoy killing Eldar.

[Uncle Benny]

mostly I was focused on Nemeroth's groinYou've surely been here long enough to know not to post things like that...

I do not enjoy killing Eldar.Heresy! There is nothing you shouldn't enjoy killing, including other Spess Mahreens who've fallen from the Emprah's Light, Ridley Scott's 'Alien' Aliens, Communist Asian Chinaliens, or Undead Egyptian Robot Aliens.

[SOLID MATTIC]

Using the Lascannon when on the Titan Invictus would be a prime example though, since if you headshot the Tainted Psyker as he appears you effectively end that fight right there no questions asked. If you decide to use a different weapon you can end up with an entirely different fight on your hands, one much harder then if you use the Lascannon off the bat to end it in something like three seconds

On my second play through I decided to go for the "burn them all" trophy in this chapter. Why I decided to do this on the hard difficulty I don't rightly know :p trying to hit flying psykers and a Blight Drone with a plasma gun was not fun.

Lascannon to the head solved most of the games bigger obstacles and the melta gun is a get out of jail free card if you get surrounded, but I still had a blast playing through the game.

[Dreskar]

Ok someone needs to say something about this, Misiok they never once said they should not defend the planet in order to save the titan production. In the intro the local adminstration is asking what they should do to try and keep the titan's out of the Ork's hands, and the ability to construct their own Titans, the replies are as follows.
"
Xenos invasion in progress.
Recommended course of action?

Exterminatus?
-Negative, strategic value Absolute.

Deploy Capital Weaponry?
-Negative, estimated reduction in manufacturing output unacceptable.

Liberation Fleet?
-Affirmative. Minor elements in system. Estimated time of arrival = 5-37 Days

Delay.
Unacceptable.

-Loss of strategic assets on GRAIA unacceptable. Strategic value ABSOLUTE.

Escalate Area Denial?
-Affirmative.

Execute request order.
ADEPTUS ASTARTES ULTRA.

Response Incoming.

Deploying the Ultramarines.
"

Ok no where in there did they ever say they would not defend it, they keep asking how should they defend it. The Guard regiment is sent in as fast as it can, arriving almost a week after the initial invasion, the Ultramarines send a small strikeforce with two squads to try and infilitrate and secure the titan and hold it alone until the Liberation fleet, which is being gathered can arrive. The Ultramarines arrive a few days after the first guard regiments hit down when the next wave of guard regiments (Arriving from other neighboring worlds) are trying to put reinforcements down on the planet but are being obliterated by the Ork controlled orbital guns, and the Ork fleet. During this entire time the Orks are still raining down thousands upon thousands of Roks onto the planet, meaning the Ork total can be safely estimated in the billions just within the first few hours of the battle, the defending forces never stood a chance, which is why the Ultramarines believe everyone from the first guard wave including all the populace to be completely wiped out.

This is also why the Orks take one of the titan plasma cannons, as the Adeptus Mechanicus sealed the doors to the Titan Invictus's berthing manufactorum to keep the Orks out,and charge it to try and blast a hole through the door to get inside. Its also why the guardsmen are able to hold onto the facotry for so long since the only access path is the elevator and small acess tunnels used by Antioch and his squad. Also in the audio logs it is specifically stated the Plantery Defense Force, the Skitarri and Graia's own Imperial Guard regiments were completely obliterated on day one of the battle, when Mira's guardsmen (and I say Mira as I do not believe the Lord General or the Colonel are named in any of the logs) arrive they immediatly order the civilians to evacuate and try to shuttle them to different bastions, each being destroyed and looted by the orks. If you go deeper into the logs you come to find that by the third day of the battle Mira's guardsmen are all thought to be completely dead by the remaining civilians who are running through the alley ways and broken hab centers desperatly trying to find one of the small holdout groups of guardsmen or for a safe place to hide.

And remember, the Ultramarines along with the mass Imperial guard reinfocements do not arrive until day 9 of the battle, long after the PDF, Adeptus Mechanicus and their Skitarii, as well as the world's original guardsmen are wiped out.

[Calax]

And remember, the Ultramarines along with the mass Imperial guard reinfocements do not arrive until day 9 of the battle, long after the PDF, Adeptus Mechanicus and their Skitarii, as well as the world's original guardsmen are wiped out. Uh... it's my understanding that it usually takes FAR more than 9 days to "clense" a planet for ANY race. I mean the forces on planet should be able to hold out for at least a month, and there have been cases were a single planet has spent literally decades locked in a single conflict, with constant redeployment of units to the location.

Hell, just having the TITAN on world should give it more than 9 days, as that things many MANY guns could wipe out a good portion of the orks and secure a segment of the planet with guard support (and it meant that there would be a much higher than average garrison on planet).

Heck, it took germany 1 month to subjugate France in WW2 (May 10 to June 10). The only reason I can think of that the Titan factory and the area that "you" dive into at the start of the game is basically barren, is because the Orks literally landed right on top of the factory.

[SOLID MATTIC]

^^Obviously those orks on the planets locked in conflict just weren't choppin 'ard enuff. Da runty gits.
Planets and their population will die as quickly as the plot wants them to in 40k fiction. With all sides having access to weapons of immense destruction, almost anything is plausible. This particular Waaagh! apparently included billions of orks. Billions killing round the clock for over the week would probably have a rather large impact on the planetary population.

Also the Titan appeared to be down for repairs and/or needing more crew members. I can't think of any reason why it would have needed a special power source to effectively hit a target right in front of it unless it was damaged or otherwise not 100%

[SpardaSon21]

A Titan's main gun probably can't blow an orbital spire to pieces with a single shot without being boosted by Warp energies.

[Exsus]

It was also well out of range, in order to actually hit the spire it had to be over charged, and then to break though.

[BafflerMeat]

Beat it last night, joined these forums basically to expound upon how much I love the game.

Most people are saying it took them 8 hours, but it felt a lot longer to me. Usually a 3PS action game like this is 6-8 hours, but this was different. This game has some chops. I can't remember the last time I was actually engrossed in the plot of a game as much as I was with SM. It was difficult, too, but not in an unfair, carelessly programmed sense, moreso in the uniqueness of the gameplay and the way battles flowed. Can't depend too heavily on Gunplay or Melee, and I like that a lot. Keeps you on your toes.

If I could make one suggestion, less Rokkit Boyz. I'm not asking for a whole other class, but it seemed like Shootas went woefully undersued compared to Rokkits.

Still, amazing game. Best 3PS in awhile. I hope there's a sequel.