Weapons Discussion: Melta Guns

[Mirage Knight]

Melta Guns: Insta-kill at close range? No thanks. How about dropping the damage and increasing the rate of fire so that it stays useful but at the same time can be evaded? Perhaps drop the damage so that at close range it will strip armour and the second shot will kill.

Honestly though, I'd rather see the Melta Gun replaced with a Flamer...AoE damage, lingering DoT applicable to surfaces and enemies alike for a short time, and maybe target blinding while the target is on fire.

However, that's not going to happen. So may as well tweak what we have. I feel part of the problem has to do with the high lag benefit/disadvantage rate associated with the Melta Gun - the range, long cool down, and cone damage doesn't help any.

[Brenil]

Melta and improved charge have problems that stem not from the weapon so much as the ability for Tactical Marines to carry two weapons and most importantly, roll away with little penalty. Melee man coming at you with a chainsword? No problem, roll, fire, roll, fire, roll, fire, dead eventually. That goes for any weapon. This is partly a netcode/lag issue for melee and partly an issue where roll can be exploited to allow someone to move faster than one can run or charge with very little cooldown between rolls and no obvious penalty to weapon accuracy or performance. Fix roll, you'll fix the Melta problems.

The flamer would be a nice team support addition. But honestly, flamers aren't meant to be used against heavy armor, so they wouldn't make much sense in a Marine vs. Marine fight. Might be nice to see in Exterminatius, though.

[Mirage Knight]

flamers aren't meant to be used against heavy armor

Neither are Bolters without the right ammo, just saying. I do see your point though :)

[Vuther]

I'd support the Melta gun being faster in fire rate but less insta-killy. Lag aside, the use of it outside of being right behind someone and meltaing them is fairly iffy outside of being the rock to Assault/Raptors' scissors and doesn't feel like a reliable weapon on it's own without the faster firing perk with the fairly wide maps we've got, making one need Weapon Versatility to use it with something else so as to not feel mostly useless. I really think its usability is a bit too skewed in its situations it's good against and those it's awful against.

[Mirage Knight]

That's exactly the problem I have with the Melta Gun - it's a ridiculously good ambush weapon and counter against ASM, especially when perked but is useless in any other scenario. A player wielding an MG is so gimped in terms of engagement range that it's no surprise that quite a few players these days only employ it as a switch weapon.


I'd support the Melta gun being faster in fire rate but less insta-killy.

Agreed and giving it a slight range buff would certainly make it less restricted in terms of usability.

[Ap0k]

The designation of the shotgun equivalent weapon in every FPS game is that of a 'backup' for when someone jumps into your face. I'm honestly not sure I see a problem with this.

[Demonic Spoon]

We have another general-purpose CQB weapon...the storm bolter. Making the meltagun passable at midrange would make them too similar IMO.


I don't see the problem with the meltagun as is. With the perk it becomes a good general purpose gun (e.g. its instakill range increases a lot), and without it it's still a great backup weapon.

[Pseudonymn]

it's no surprise that quite a few players these days only employ it as a switch weapon. That's because it litterly doesn't need to be anything other than a switch weapon. For anyone with halfway competent aim, the meltagun's cone of fire covers the rest and it becomes the Tac's "If I see you I win at everything close range" weapon.

I'd like to discuss the MG's cone of fire also. It flies in the face of what we know about the weapon from, dare I say it, TT literature - or even that which we saw in DoW1. Relic appears to have taken liberties with this weapon in giving it a damage template that matches that of a flamer when, according the the literature, it is specifically described as a "ray gun" and makes no use of a AoE damage templates whatsoever.


I'm honestly not sure I see a problem with thisI understand the role that Relic tried to squeeze this gun into (shotgun side arm) and apart from the aesthetics and consistency within the IP that I mentioned above, it's not really a problem outside of the fact that it's a one-shot weapon that doesn't require the precision of a headshot. It could do with some minor damage tweaks.

[Mirage Knight]

I'm not suggesting making it a mid range weapon at all but rather bump up the range slightly. I agree the Melta Gun should be a short range, high damage weapon, but the problem I currently see is that current damage, cool down and range are at such extremes that it's suitable only as a backup weapon or as a dedicated ambush weapon, where it's arguably overpowered. In fluff, it is anything but a backup weapon. The Melta Gun is primarily used as a short ranged vehicle killer but can be easily employed against infantry as well thanks to its ability to fire on the move without any loss of accuracy and decent rate of fire (equivalent to a pistol).

Playing Devil's Advocate here, it can be argued that in fluff and TT, a Melta Gun WILL vaporize your typical enemy soldier in a single shot if it hits, regardless of armour protection worn and inherent natural toughness and can do added damage to vehicles the closer the firing range. However, translating that mechanic as is to a real time scenario is not necessarily a good idea. If you applied the same logic that Relic's using with Meltas to Plasma weaponry in SM, they should strip you of armour with one quick tap of the fire button and then kill you with the second tap - regardless of firing range.


I'd like to discuss the MG's cone of fire also. It flies in the face of what we know about the weapon from, dare I say it, TT literature - or even that which we saw in DoW1. Relic appears to have taken liberties with this weapon in giving it a damage template that matches that of a flamer when, according the the literature, it is specifically described as a "ray gun" and makes no use of a AoE damage templates whatsoever.

Agreed.

[konfeta]

I wouldn't mind if the meltagun's firing cone was lowered. The only thing that is annoying is how easy it is to land a hit with. The one shot aspect should stay, otherwise this weapon would lose most of its utility.

[Mirage Knight]

I like the idea of restricting the cone, but I feel the other tweaks suggested would help the Melta Gun become less of a one-trick pony - that of a surprise face-rape tool against other players.

[Pseudonymn]

What is the argument being made in favor of this or any weapon being a oneshot killer? Why does any game need these? Where would the harm be in toning the weapon down to the point where it still packs a wallop but doesn't yield an instant one-way ticket back the spawn room for the victim with no chance to retaliate? If it stripped all shields and took a good chunk of health damage with it, charged for a bit and was ready again, what's issue with that? A Tac with the right perks can still switch to his primary weapon and put down enough hurt to finish off the fight with a serious advantage in his favor.

[konfeta]

Why does any game need these?
Fun to play with and against. Speeds up the pace of the game. The chance to retaliate part comes from where it is the shortest ranged weapon in the game.

[Servius]

I'm okay with Melta insta-kills. They're balanced by the need to get right up next to you, while not have superior melee. I don't even know if you actually can 1-shot anyone who has full health and shield, so it's probably a moot point.

IMO, only DD (direct damage) weapons should be able to 1-shot. Anything that does AoE should not be able to 1-shot. The meltagun is an exception since, at the range needed to 1-shot you (if that's even possible), it's AoE is turned into a DD shot (since you have to fill all of its cone of fire)