November Balance Update

[coldplay]

Is coming :) Reserving this thread to discuss.

[GrimDark]

Fingers crossed for fixing requirements for *certain* perks and weapons rebalancing...

Then again if the game gives me an option to NOT be a host (suddently red bars for everyone but me) I can live without few perks...

[Imperial Honour]

Interesting news, not really much to discuss until we get the juicy information. However, I might as well preemptively ask if any of the November Balance Update changes will have a knock-on effect when it comes to playing Exterminatus, since weapon statistics and the like seem to be fairly consistent between Versus and Exterminatus.

[CoraxCartman]

I hope the infinite "starting..." bug gets fixed cuz 80% of the games I join are just that :rolleyes:. I wanna melt some ork faces damn it!

[Caeltos]

I is excited

[konfeta]

Well, initially speaking, I hope that overall this is buffs to weaker weapons/perks rather than nerf of the stronger ones. I know many will disagree, but this game has very few true inter-class balance issues. Most of the balance problems, as far as I can tell, are explosive spam and that some perk/weapon options are subpar. The rest is just lag, lag, lag.

[Codex]

Nah, definitely nerf the explosive spam. Buff the others a bit, but really explosive spam is nothing but lame.

[konfeta]

Well, yeah, that's a given. I am gonna suggest lowering max grenades to 1 to start off. And then shank Master Crafted/Favored of the Armory with the rustiest shiv.

[Hirmetrium]

EPIC CHEER FOR COLDPLAY!!!!

Sorry lost my self control again.

I'm looking forward to grenade, plasma, and hit detection fixes. Maybe power axe will be useful? Maybe vengence launcher won't suck? Perks that are useful? Maybe not a million billion hours grinding to get some of the weapon challenges? :)

[Dimension]

I honestly don't feel like weapon damage is similar between exterminatus and versus. this is most apparent to me using the melta and heavy bolter. all of a sudden, they are somewhat lackluster. I was actually hoping for a bit of a fix as it is.

other than that, I hope the nerfs aren't too strong, or the buffs either. the basic balance wasn't that terrible, and in many cases lag was a big contributing factor.

[Imperial Honour]

Well sure doesn't help when your Exterminatus opponents can have more health (and armour for the bonus Chaos wave) then your typical Assault\Tactical\Devastator does in Versus, the more health the Ork boyz have the harder they are to kill making weapons feel disproportional weaker then in Versus, excluding perks like Killing Blow and the Las-Cannon. Whereas if you enable Friendly Fire and test out weapon damage it seems to be somewhat similar, if not exactly the same, as that in Versus. But I likely digress from the target of the balance update somewhat.

Oh and prepare for a whole new level of hurt if the Vengence Launcher gets some good improvements, I already do just as well with it as with other weapons. That's not to say it doesn't need some tweaks, which is for another topic, I'm just saying you might want to watch out for your face since it might go boom :p.

[konfeta]

Whereas if you enable Friendly Fire and test out weapon damage it seems to be somewhat similar, if not exactly the same, as that in Versus. But I likely digress from the target of the balance update somewhat.
Compare chainsword swings vs. melta.

And all Vengeance Launcher nooblets will fall before the wrath of the mighty bolt pistol anyway.

[Zallis]

Is this just going to be balance changes, or are bug and network fixes going to be included as well?

[Gorb]

Came in expecting dolt thread evaluating how the balance has settled.

Was surprised.

<3 coldplay

[Jaimas]

GIVE US A CHANGELOG
NOW

[coldplay]

Haha, maybe a TAD premature on my part. Official Official Post coming from THQ soon (for realz) :)

[konfeta]

Is this TAD on the same scale as Valve's Soon?

[coldplay]

Soon as in "already", yo!

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?263732-Space-Marine-Balance-Update!

[Wizardofnoz]

As I've said already at the Honour Guard forums, I think that reducing the number of starting 'nades is overkill. It is only with FoA + MCW that 'nades become a problem and need balancing. Giving non-'nade-perk users only 1 to start detracts from the tactical use of them. In some spots chucking one at your feet can be the only way to avoid a TH to the face when in close quarters and with the sizeable propensity to suffer from death by ASM-lag, they are incredibly useful. Given that you aren't guaranteed to get a drop from that kill, you are then left without for the following encounter.

[konfeta]

There is nothing "tactical" about blanket immunity to ASM melee. Or ASM being flying artillery. Or CP carpet bombing with 6+ grenades.

With this change, instead of just throwing your grenade out silly willy at the slightest provocation, you have to think before using it.

[Wizardofnoz]

I agree. But, and I should've stressed this more in my post, is that giving non-nade-perk users only 1 is, imo, horribly restrictive. I don't think that a flying 'nade thrower deserves to have 4 small nukes in his pocket. But, it's the ASM with the perk(s) that is the problem, not everyone else.

[konfeta]

ASM don't have access to those perks. They are already classifiable as flying artillery with just two regular ones.

I am willing to wager that most people don't think it's a problem because they are satisfied with walking around with two potential free kills in their pocket every life. No matter how badly you screw up, you can always throw out two grenades and do damage disproportionate to that which your failure should allow. But this translates to ridiculous amount of spam on its own as everyone will throw at least one grenade on a hair-trigger, because hey, you have another one! There is no real cost to just throwing a grenade at the first opportune moment. With this change, yes, you are restricted to making a decision whenever you save a grenade for your own sake or use it to get a freebie kill on an enemy busy with an ally of yours.

Besides, if you think it so terrible to only start with one grenade, stay back and pick one up from an ally's corpse.

[Wizardofnoz]

Quite right, I forgot about the ASM loadouts. Herp a derp!

Despite all the talk I have seen regarding "grenade spam", I simply have not come across it in the same quantities. I have noticed those death by FOA+MCW, sure, but in instances where I have died to a grenade, it has been situational and no where near the levels of spam that others have suggested. Either I'm immensely lucky that I have not come up against that many users of this exploitable loadout or perhaps others have been that unlucky, but non-grenade-perk death does not happen enough to me to make me fully appreciate your side of the arguement.

[Codex]

it has been situational and no where near the levels of spam that others have suggested. Either I'm immensely lucky that I have not come up against that many users of this exploitable loadout or perhaps others have been that unlucky,

You are very lucky.

One person with this loadout+ a partner (God forbid it's a PLASMA CANNON) can stunlock anybody who doesn't have a jetpack quite easily. The AOE is just obscene with MCW and will prevent you from escaping the other 3 grenades. Do note you only need 1 MC grenade to take you out from full health. Good luck.

[konfeta]

I have noticed those death by FOA+MCW, sure, but in instances where I have died to a grenade, it has been situational and no where near the levels of spam that others have suggested.
Yeah, either ridiculously lucky, or you have been desenthesizd to grenade spam (alert the media!) and don't think that one 1-2 explosions flying out from almost every enemy model to be spam.

[Pseudonymn]

Well, we know who the nade spammers are now :P

[Dimension]

mmh.

For a first bit at balance, I'd have preferred it if they'd have just increased cooldown between grenade throws and maybe reined FoTM down to 3 nades instead of four. nerfing nade count across the board seems too much at first glance.

[Danustar]

I'd concur with that.
Also, NERF FINAL VENGEANCE!!

Edit: THANK YOU!! :)